You’re really gonna play dumb like this huh? =]
This [quote] "The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.” [/quote] This is a horrific perversion of scripture. Romans 2 specifically which he cites next in defense of it.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
You’re really gonna play dumb like this huh? =]
This [quote] "The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.” [/quote] This is a horrific perversion of scripture. Romans 2 specifically which he cites next in defense of it. [/quote]
I don’t get it. How is it a horrific perversion of scripture that Jesus’ plan of salvation was for all men? One part of all men is Moslem’s who have many commonalities with Christendom (since it is really a simplified and illogical version of Christianity). Just because someone is a part of the plan of salvation, does not mean they will have salvation. They can just not cooperate with the Grace given to them by God. That usually gets you sent to Hell if your Catholic, not sure why it wouldn’t be the same for a Moslem.
I was dead tired and missed the N in NOT. Sorry. Didn’t see it til this morning. And you say that from the 13th and 14th verses of Romans you get the idea that a religion with the wrong god, the wrong jesus, the wrong doctrines of sin, providence, redemption and judgement can bring salvation as long as they don’t reject Christ? Which they have already done by their refusal to worship Him as the only begotten Son of the Father, seated at the right hand of majesty on high?
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I was dead tired and missed the N in NOT. Sorry. Didn’t see it til this morning. And you say that from the 13th and 14th verses of Romans you get the idea that a religion with the wrong god, the wrong jesus, the wrong doctrines of sin, providence, redemption and judgement can bring salvation as long as they don’t reject Christ? Which they have already done by their refusal to worship Him as the only begotten Son of the Father, seated at the right hand of majesty on high? [/quote]
No. I don’t think anyone has said that and that’s definitely not what I said. Not sure where you are getting confused.
Islam has all those wrong things Chris. With sorrow at having to say so in light of that fact that my slippery friend squating_bear will probably read it. I must tell the truth though. I cannot do otherwise.
“Plan” was the operant word.
[quote]Cortes wrote:
“Plan” was the operant word. [/quote]You’re gonna break my heart if you explain this in such a way as to demonstrate that you have not grasped nearly as much of what we’ve talkin about for the last year and a half as I thought. Did you get my message about Pat?
I’m just talking about the words on the page and the part you quoted from Chris’s friend. He said “God’s plan,” which has an entirely different connotation than “God will let the Muslims into heaven if…”
Yeah, my replying/posting is pretty spotty right now as I move into a new house, sorry.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Islam has all those wrong things Chris. With sorrow at having to say so in light of that fact that my slippery friend squating_bear will probably read it. I must tell the truth though. I cannot do otherwise.[/quote]
Yes, and the Catholic Church has pointed that out since Islam came around during the 7th Century (when there was no Calvinism).
You’re a little late on calling them out on their error, the fact that your heresy came 900-1000 years after is nothing to boot either.
However, I think you have “commonalities” and “they are 100% right and going to Heaven” confused. Though I’d say Calvinism and Islam have much more in common than the latter does with Catholicism.
I’d say all three have little in common. I have to up be early for0 church Chris. Catch ya tomorrow I hope. Cortes I saw you too.
Actually, you are. Pretty impressive, Belloc in his book called, “Heresy” he writes a long piece of Islam and it is interesting the parallels between Islam and Calvinism.
And, of course there is a hierarchy with Catholicism having the fullness of truth, Protestantism being in varying degrees close to that fullness, but not protected by the Holy Ghost. Then outside of the baptized you have Muslims who seem to be closer than most, the reasoning behind that is that well…they are a forgery of Catholicism.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:<<< the parallels between Islam and Calvinism. >>>[/quote]Only someone with utterly no competence in either could make so embarrassing a misstatement as this. Aside from a superficial similarity regarding predestination, seen as a parallel by again, only those ignorant of both, I have literally NOTHING in common with any sect of Islam. This doesn’t pass the snicker test Christopher. Do your own research from source from now on. I’m actually giving you good advice. Takes more time, but yields actual results. Whoever this clod is you quoted? Bonehead.
[quote]Cortes wrote:
I’m just talking about the words on the page and the part you quoted from Chris’s friend. He said “God’s plan,” which has an entirely different connotation than “God will let the Muslims into heaven if…”
Yeah, my replying/posting is pretty spotty right now as I move into a new house, sorry. [/quote]
Why do I feel like I am being stalked?
There is a reason I keep my personal shit off the internet…
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:<<< the parallels between Islam and Calvinism. >>>[/quote]Only someone with utterly no competence in either could make so embarrassing a misstatement as this. Aside from a superficial similarity regarding predestination, seen as a parallel by again, only those ignorant of both, I have literally NOTHING in common with any sect of Islam. This doesn’t pass the snicker test Christopher. Do your own research from source from now on. I’m actually giving you good advice. Takes more time, but yields actual results. Whoever this clod is you quoted? Bonehead.
[/quote]
Lol.
Any man who makes sweeping generalities about men has utterly and possibly permanently closed his mind. See, I can do the same.
You should ask Pastor Chris about Belloc, I’m sure he’s been studying him with some intensity at Cato along with G.K. Chesterton since they were best buds back in the day and both formulated Distributism.
The problem Tirib, is you are too serious. And, as both G.K. and Belloc pointed out, you’ll never convert a man unless you make him laugh.
The problem
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:<<< you’ll never convert a man unless you make him laugh. >>>[/quote]I’ll never convert a man at all Chris. Only the Holy Spirit can do that. My job is to love them and to tell them. That said? Humor IS a gift of God and if you’re personality is given to humor, then bringing some laughs is also a good thing. You probably haven’t noticed, but I do make people laugh here and there. I like to do that. It’s fun. I am gonna have to go ahead and say that you may be the one who is too serious. (a lot of the time) I don’t how many times I’ve had to tell you should be chuckling at something I said because that’s how I sent it.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:<<< you’ll never convert a man unless you make him laugh. >>>[/quote]I’ll never convert a man at all Chris. Only the Holy Spirit can do that. My job is to love them and to tell them. That said? Humor IS a gift of God and if you’re personality is given to humor, then bringing some laughs is also a good thing. You probably haven’t noticed, but I do make people laugh here and there. I like to do that. It’s fun. I am gonna have to go ahead and say that you may be the one who is too serious. (a lot of the time) I don’t how many times I’ve had to tell you should be chuckling at something I said because that’s how I sent it.
[/quote]
You’re still an instrument, and if that instrument is not conductive can they still be converted? Yes, but it is still a hinderance.
[quote]Cortes wrote:
I’m just talking about the words on the page and the part you quoted from Chris’s friend. He said “God’s plan,” which has an entirely different connotation than “God will let the Muslims into heaven if…”
Yeah, my replying/posting is pretty spotty right now as I move into a new house, sorry. [/quote]
I sent a PM to you, did you get it this time?
Just curious if this is working for me. I don’t get many PM’s, but I get a few, and I have gotten zero for a long time. So I am curious if the feature is working for me. It’s clearly working for others.
Testing. Is this thing locked or something? Is that why we have yet another Catholic thread going?
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Testing. Is this thing locked or something? Is that why we have yet another Catholic thread going?[/quote]
Nope, guess not.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:<<< you’ll never convert a man unless you make him laugh. >>>[/quote]I’ll never convert a man at all Chris. Only the Holy Spirit can do that. My job is to love them and to tell them. That said? Humor IS a gift of God and if you’re personality is given to humor, then bringing some laughs is also a good thing. You probably haven’t noticed, but I do make people laugh here and there. I like to do that. It’s fun. I am gonna have to go ahead and say that you may be the one who is too serious. (a lot of the time) I don’t how many times I’ve had to tell you should be chuckling at something I said because that’s how I sent it.
[/quote]
You’re still an instrument, and if that instrument is not conductive can they still be converted? Yes, but it is still a hindrance. [/quote]I agree with this statement but almost certainly disagree with you about what is conducive and what that word even means in this usage. Yes, we ARE instruments. We are responsible for telling people the reason for the hope that lies within us. We are to do it in love, by God’s definition of what love is and purity both of life and message.