Catholic Q&A 3

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
61

[quote]Karado wrote:
“It is very much a Catholic/medieval theology”

Yeah that pretty much it…I tend to believe the Foundations of the Faith rather than
the Reboot of the Faith 500 years ago via Luther, then again the Catholic “Saints”
and all their superhuman powers is disturbing, Like Cupertino who had the gift
of Levitation (what???), I mean ALL these “Saints” with all these powers were
all in the past…Why not MODERN Saints with tangible supernatural gifts that we can SEE
now?..that’s concerning, that these Saints with these special powers were all conveniently in the past.
[/quote]

No, I was asking what you understood as the different levels of Heaven. I’d like to know.

I’m not sure how levitation is superhuman and the power isn’t theirs, it’s Our Lord’s power. Jesus and St. Peter weren’t superhuman and they both walked on water. What the Rabbi can do his Disciples should be able to do the same.

And, all these Saints are in the past, because they are not canonized until after they are dead. Nevertheless, there is still many saints and there are many who do miracles by the power of Christ. Plenty of none saints doing miracles everyday, as well. See several miracles everyday. Though I’ve seen some rather extraordinary miracles lately, but that is rather private and I’m not one to talk about those publicly.

62

Different Levels, some WILL get more than others in Reward And Freedom, you know that already…Catholicism does do those vain repetitions, those bother me as well, and I’m still trying to find in Scripture where saying the Rosary is necessary, and how Padre Pio was reputed to have Bi-Location abilities being in 2 places at once (WHAT??)…Maybe he had a secret twin?

63

[quote]Karado wrote:
“We cannot do anything about TV preachers, it time poorly spent trying to fight everybody we may think is bastardizing the Christian faith.”

At least I’m working a bit at what the Bible commands us to do, Like Calling Charlatans Out, and not sticking my head in the Sand thinking it’s time ‘poorly spent’, If Charlatans are legion now,
why do you think it’s time “poorly spent” exposing them?
Believe it or not I am a Believer, an Imperfect one, but a believer nevertheless, and even if
I make it to the ‘Ghetto’ part of Heaven with what the Bible calls with ‘great loss’, it will still
be miles ahead of my lifestyle here, you ARE aware there are different levels of Heaven and not
a “one size fits all” type of Paradise.
[/quote]
How do you go about calling other Christians out and what gives you the right? Should you not concern yourself with ‘taking the wooden beam out from your eye’ before you clear the speck from others?

There may or may not be different levels of heaven. There certainly seems to be some evidence that there are different “levels” but I don’t really care about that. I will end up where I deserve to be.

64

[quote]Karado wrote:
Different Levels, some WILL get more than others in Reward And Freedom, you know that already…Catholicism does do those vain repetitions, those bother me as well, and I’m still trying to find in Scripture where saying the Rosary is necessary, and how Padre Pio was reputed to have Bi-Location abilities being in 2 places at once (WHAT??)…Maybe he had a secret twin?[/quote]

Well, feel free to investigate Padre Pio, he did have the stigmata after all. A man who carries the wounds of Christ I would tend to believe. There are pictures and historical evidence of his stigmata. So would a man given the wounds of Christ’s crucifixion be compelled to lie? The man was given great spiritual gifts. It would do well to investigate before calling bullshit.
The Rosary is scripture in the form of prayer. The Hail Mary and Our Father are both comprised of scripture. I fail to see the problem with repeating scripture in the form of prayer. There is not vanity about it, it’s a form of prayer and meditation about Christ and the scriptures.
Since this is Catholic Q & A, feel free to ask questions rather than criticize. Put your gun back in it’s holster. You’re bringing in a bias and a clear disdain for something you do not understand.
Whatever it is you believe it, you have to understand the Catholic Church was first. The bible cannon was assembled by the church, the New Testament writings were written by those in the church. For in those days the church was one.

65

[quote]Karado wrote:
Different Levels, some WILL get more than others in Reward And Freedom, you know that already…[/quote]

No, I don’t know that already. Who is “some” and “others”.

Why do you say that?

Why do you assume Christians do vain repetitions?

Matters what you mean by necessary. There are five precepts of the Church:

  1. You shall attend Mass on Sundays and on holy days of obligation and rest from servile labor.
  2. You shall confess your sins at least once a year.
  3. You shall receive the sacrament of the Eucharist at least during the Easter season.
  4. You shall observe the prescribed days of fasting and abstinence established by the Church.
  5. You shall help to provide for the needs of the Church, each according to his own ability.

Those are considered necessary.

The rosary is a personal devotion, whether it is to be done (necessarily) is a matter of personal discernment. But, the 15 mysteries are from Luke (and a few of the other Gospels), the Our Father is from Matthew 6 and the Hail Mary is from the Luke, as well. The Salve Regina is based on the Hail Mary and marian doctrine. The Fatima prayers are in addition to the standard, but they come from Our Lady of Fatima for the conversion of the world (especially Muslims). The St. Michael Prayer is written by Pope Leo XIII who had a private revelation while he was dead and became popular to say at the end of the Rosary for protection of the Church, particularly in the 20th Century when it was said in his private revelation that the Devil was given much freedom to attack and infiltrate the Church.

By the power of God. It is a supernatural event and mystery and is something I have no studied as it a rather obscure part of Catholicism and I have no particular devotion to St. Padre Pio beyond using one of his prayers called the “Effacious Novena to the Sacred Heart of Jesus.” I couldn’t tell you anything about his bi-location except that it saved some pilots in one of the World Wars.

66

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:<<<

  1. You shall attend Mass on Sundays and on holy days of obligation and rest from servile labor. >>>[/quote]Attend mass, but not necessarily receive the eucharist which is the center of Catholic salvation? As long as it’s once a year at Easter?

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:<<<
2) You shall confess your sins at least once a year. >>>[/quote]Once a year? Did you really just say this? Lunar or solar? What if you die at 12:01am after the last day of the year period since your last one?

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:<<<
3) You shall receive the sacrament of the Eucharist at least during the Easter season. >>>[/quote]So the other 51 weeks it’s OK to NOT receive the sacrament of the eucharist, but you “SHALL” attend mass?

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:<<<
4) You shall observe the prescribed days of fasting and abstinence established by the Church. >>>[/quote]What? No push ups? And only of course if you’re not invincibly ignorant of the fact that you “shall”? Is this another thing like the gospel itself that one is better off not learning about because they might be damned if they do and fail to comply?

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:<<<
5) You shall help to provide for the needs of the Church, each according to his own ability.
[/quote]I wouldn’t phrase it that way, but this I agree with. It’s actually biblical.

How anybody can confuse this with the Gospel of Jesus Christ can only be explained by willful self deception or Satanic delusion or both. Forsake these chains of legalistic darkness Christopher I beg of thee. Come out of her and taste the pure light and grace of the of 51st Psalm. You are killin me man. I can’t stand to read stuff like this from you. It’s flat out creepy.

67


Lol. Pastor Chris must have really riled you up today.

Tirib, why would I leave the true Church, founded by Jesus, for an ecclesiastic community founded by Pastor Chris with Pastor Chris as the foundation of your congregation, well until someone decides to split or he leaves. You make me weak at the knees with your irony.

You can’t even agree with your own brethren on the essentials of your heterodox doctrine let alone explain why the Bible is authoritative, why should I endanger my soul and leave the Real Presence of Jesus, for a Church that disembodies Jesus Christ and entrenches itself in pride and heresy?

You can’t even give a valid interpretation of Scriptures, why would I believe you even understand Psalms 51. But, in Charity I shall explain your objections while not getting frustrated by your utter reductionism and sentimentalism.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:<<<

  1. You shall attend Mass on Sundays and on holy days of obligation and rest from servile labor. >>>[/quote]

Attend mass, but not necessarily receive the eucharist which is the center of Catholic salvation? As long as it’s once a year at Easter?[/quote]

The saying you are looking for is, “The Eucharist is the source and summit of the Faith.” It is not “receiving the Eucharist is the source and summit of the faith.” And, it doesn’t say at Easter, says during Easter season. To be frank this is about keeping the Sabbath holy. I’m sure you wouldn’t say that we should break the Third commandment.

However, this precept is about the Sabbath. The Catechism says about the first precept, “The first precept (“You shall attend Mass on Sundays and holy days of obligation and rest from servile labor”) requires the faithful to sanctify the day commemorating the Resurrection of the Lord as well as the principal liturgical feasts honoring the mysteries of the Lord, the Blessed Virgin Mary, and the saints; in the first place, by participating in the Eucharistic celebration, in which the Christian community is gathered, and by resting from those works and activities which could impede such a sanctification of these days” (CCC 2042).

I’ll point out that what these precepts are a “very necessary minimum in the spirit of prayer and moral effort, in the growth in love of God and neighbor” (CCC 2041). This is not the recommended dosage, this is the you are going to spiritually starve if your interior life does not have at least this to nourish it.

[quote]

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:<<<
2) You shall confess your sins at least once a year. >>>[/quote]

Once a year? Did you really just say this? Lunar or solar? What if you die at 12:01am after the last day of the year period since your last one?[/quote]

If you die with mortal sin on your soul, no matter how long it has been since you last confessed, your soul is in danger. This is referring to the Reconciliation (2 Cor. 5:18). The second precept ensures preparation for the Eucharist, by which Baptism’s work continues: conversion and forgiveness. This precept assumes one will commit mortal sin, and if not venial sins. Even more, you’re making the false assumption that everyone has a priest that lives next door to him.

There are some folks who only get to see priests once or twice a year. I have a disciple who is from Alaska and his family has to travel a few hundred miles to the closest priest.

[quote][quote]Brother Chris wrote:<<<
3) You shall receive the sacrament of the Eucharist at least during the Easter season. >>>[/quote]So the other 51 weeks it’s OK to NOT receive the sacrament of the eucharist, but you “SHALL” attend mass?[/quote]

Yes, as it “guarantees as a minimum the reception of the Lordâ??s Body and Blood in connection with the Paschal feasts, the origin and center of the Christian liturgy.” However, you do not understand fully the first precept. It has to be reasonable to attend mass. So, if you’re in the middle of the Sahara desert, and you miss mass, it’s not a problem. However, if you’re in Rome and it’s 7 AM, probably able to attend mass.

Again, my disciple is lucky that his father is rather wealthy and has boats/planes to get to more populated areas. However, if he was like some of his neighbors, who had to wait for the circuit priest to come by he’d be waiting awhile. Or, you can be like his uncle who is a hermit in Alaska who travels a few times a year out of his hermitage to go to the Cathedral. So, yes at a minimun once a year.

[quote][quote]Brother Chris wrote:<<<
4) You shall observe the prescribed days of fasting and abstinence established by the Church. >>>[/quote]What? No push ups? And only of course if you’re not invincibly ignorant of the fact that you “shall”?[/quote]

I’m not sure what you’re talking about.

I’m not sure what kind of heresy Pastor Chris (or yourself, Pope T1 as you have called yourself) believe, but no one is better off not hearing the Gospel. You should probably repent and believe, and join the body of Christ, the Church.

I’m not sure why you have such a preverse reaction to this precept, after all Jesus himself fasted and so did John the Baptist. And, so did the Apostles.

[quote][quote]Brother Chris wrote:<<<
5) You shall help to provide for the needs of the Church, each according to his own ability.
[/quote]I wouldn’t phrase it that way, but this I agree with. It’s actually biblical. [/quote]

All of it is truth.

68

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:<<< I’m not sure what kind of heresy Pastor Chris (or yourself, Pope T1 as you have called yourself) believe, but no one is better off not hearing the Gospel. >>>[/quote]Boy you really don’t like my pastor do ya? LOL!!! Ya need to help yer friend Brent out over at almostnotcatholic because he begs to differ with you. When I asked him about it, which I documented in the Romans 2 thread. He refused to publish it. Jist keep studyin Christopher. Keep doin whatever it is all that religious gymnastics you’ve mistaken for Christianity is. I figure you have several more years at least so don’t misconstrue my efforts as anything other than seed planting. I do not expect fruit until you’re about 30 or older, maybe a lot older, but it’s comin.

69

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:<<< I’m not sure what kind of heresy Pastor Chris (or yourself, Pope T1 as you have called yourself) believe, but no one is better off not hearing the Gospel. >>>[/quote]Boy you really don’t like my pastor do ya? LOL!!! Ya need to help yer friend Brent out over at almostnotcatholic because he begs to differ with you. When I asked him about it, which I documented in the Romans 2 thread. He refused to publish it. Jist keep studyin Christopher. Keep doin whatever it is all that religious gymnastics you’ve mistaken for Christianity is. I figure you have several more years at least so don’t misconstrue my efforts as anything other than seed planting. I do not expect fruit until you’re about 30 or older, maybe a lot older, but it’s comin.
[/quote]

No, I love your pastor. Lol, God has infinite love for all men and therefore, I attempt to at least love everyman. I just don’t agree with having him taking a Catholic away from the faith, such as you and (I presume your wife and family). You’ll have to give me a link to what you’re referring to.

I didn’t know making distinctions and defining things was gymnastics, but it’s this thing called reason…God gave it to us to use. :slight_smile:

70

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:<<< I’m not sure what kind of heresy Pastor Chris (or yourself, Pope T1 as you have called yourself) believe, but no one is better off not hearing the Gospel. >>>[/quote]Boy you really don’t like my pastor do ya? LOL!!! Ya need to help yer friend Brent out over at almostnotcatholic because he begs to differ with you. When I asked him about it, which I documented in the Romans 2 thread. He refused to publish it. Jist keep studyin Christopher. Keep doin whatever it is all that religious gymnastics you’ve mistaken for Christianity is. I figure you have several more years at least so don’t misconstrue my efforts as anything other than seed planting. I do not expect fruit until you’re about 30 or older, maybe a lot older, but it’s comin.
[/quote] No, I love your pastor. Lol, God has infinite love for all men and therefore, I attempt to at least love everyman. I just don’t agree with having him taking a Catholic away from the faith, such as you and (I presume your wife and family). >>>[/quote] I was delivered from Catholicism in earnest in the fall of 1984 Christopher. I have only known Pastor Brooks for the past 5 years. [quote]Brother Chris wrote:<<< You’ll have to give me a link to what you’re referring to. >>>[/quote]You gave me a convoluted answer which basically reinforced my still standing point. Romans 2 - Politics and World Issues - Forums - T Nation [quote]Brother Chris wrote:<<< I didn’t know making distinctions and defining things was gymnastics, >>>[/quote]It’s not.[quote]Brother Chris wrote:<<< but it’s this thing called reason…God gave it to us to use. :)[/quote]Well thank you very much Chris. Now I know what to do with this thing between my eyes =]

71

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:<<< I’m not sure what kind of heresy Pastor Chris (or yourself, Pope T1 as you have called yourself) believe, but no one is better off not hearing the Gospel. >>>[/quote]Boy you really don’t like my pastor do ya? LOL!!! Ya need to help yer friend Brent out over at almostnotcatholic because he begs to differ with you. When I asked him about it, which I documented in the Romans 2 thread. He refused to publish it. Jist keep studyin Christopher. Keep doin whatever it is all that religious gymnastics you’ve mistaken for Christianity is. I figure you have several more years at least so don’t misconstrue my efforts as anything other than seed planting. I do not expect fruit until you’re about 30 or older, maybe a lot older, but it’s comin.
[/quote] No, I love your pastor. Lol, God has infinite love for all men and therefore, I attempt to at least love everyman. I just don’t agree with having him taking a Catholic away from the faith, such as you and (I presume your wife and family). >>>[/quote] I was delivered from Catholicism in earnest in the fall of 1984 Christopher. I have only known Pastor Brooks for the past 5 years. [quote]Brother Chris wrote:<<< You’ll have to give me a link to what you’re referring to. >>>[/quote]You gave me a convoluted answer which basically reinforced my still standing point. Romans 2 - Politics and World Issues - Forums - T Nation [quote]Brother Chris wrote:<<< I didn’t know making distinctions and defining things was gymnastics, >>>[/quote]It’s not.[quote]Brother Chris wrote:<<< but it’s this thing called reason…God gave it to us to use. :)[/quote]Well thank you very much Chris. Now I know what to do with this thing between my eyes =][/quote]

Your nose? Convoluted answer? To what?

72

Your long drawn out meandering answer to Brent’s admission that in his view preaching the gospel endangers souls in some cases. An absolutely anti biblical, anti christian absurdity. It’s right there on the page. I wrote an extremely calm. non inflammatory and even “charitable” post pointing this out which he refuses to publish. I can only assume for fear that somebody might see the unavoidable truth of what I said.

I emailed 2 soft pleading complementary follow ups asking simply what it was about my posts that relegated them to the recycle bin. No response. That is not how the body of Christ is supposed to act Christopher. Your response to my initial report n this exchange in the Romans 2 thread is 80 times longer than necessary.

Muslims are damned to hell while they remain Muslims. I say that with no relish whatsoever, but it IS the biblical fact. They will escape ONLY by renouncing the false God they now worship and bowing the knee in self conscious surrender and worship to the King of kings and Lord of lords, Jesus Christ. By name and willful intention. Any other version is a satanic lie designed to deceive all who hear it and pervert the biblical truths of sin and redemption (by Satan, not Brent).

Brent’s declaration that "Moreover, the article itself(which is the gospel according to what he told me right there on that page)would be perilous for the unbeliever, for if they comprehended it, they might in that instance – if resisting its call to repentance – be resisting the grace of Christ, and thus damning themselves." is very telling and IS the only possible result from the truly anti Christian theology he is tasked with defending.

The truth is they’re lost already and damnation is all that waits them as they presently are. All of em. ONLY the preaching and receiving of the true gospel of grace by saving faith can rescue them. Please gimme the 13th and 14th verses of Romans 2 first if you would though please. I didn’t mean to get off on all this now, but the Romans 2 discussion will touch this for sure.

73

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Your long drawn out meandering answer to Brent’s admission that in his view preaching the gospel endangers souls in some cases.[/quote]

In his view…so not necessarily Catholic doctrine. As he pointed out. Listen I have limited amount of time on this earth, there is 1.2 Billion Catholics. There is one magisterium, I can’t defend what 1.2 Billion Catholics may or may not have said. If someone is a heretic, then I’ll given them fraternal correction if I have knowledge of the matter.

However, let’s focus on what the 1 magisterium says if you’re going to prove to me that Catholicism is false. I don’t follow a man, I follow the God Man, Jesus Christ…who swore to protect his Bride in faith and morals. So, if you’re going to try and prove Catholicism wrong based on what Brent says, you’re wasting your time. Brent is not the magisterium, Brent is not my Rabbi, my Rabbi is Jesus Christ. I do not carry Brent’s Yoke, I carry Jesus’ Yoke and his Burden is light.

74

So is he right or wrong?

75

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
So is he right or wrong?[/quote]

I don’t know. Haven’t had the time to read it. Let me look.

76

ok

77

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
So is he right or wrong?[/quote]

I don’t know. Haven’t had the time to read it. Let me look.[/quote]

Yes, he is right. Catholicism doesn’t teach universalism.

78

What ys gotta do this Chris? That is OT what am asking you and you know it.

79

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
What ys gotta do this Chris? That is OT what am asking you and you know it.[/quote]

???

80

I posted the article because it argues that the Church doesn’t teach Universalism. This was against your claim that the Church does. His points for the Church not teaching universalism seems sound, but except where he is quoting the doctrine I can’t testify to its correctness.