[quote]prophetman wrote:
If we werent supposed to eat animals, then why the hell would they be made out of meat!?!
Serisouly tho, whoever said humans evolved on a herbivore diet was a poopieface.
Hmm, why do I think that? Because our teeth say the opposite to what he said.
[/quote]
“Poopieface”? LMAO
[quote]Aravind wrote:
BIGRAGOO wrote:
Who gives a shit? Humans are omnivores. We can digest practically any food we eat. The key is in the ratios of what we eat. Have a steak and grow a little.
This is the point most vegetarians seem to be missing. If a person is vegetarian by choice then fine. Please do not go about trying to prove your reasoning to meat eaters because it does not hold much scientific merit.
[/quote]
Perfectly said.
[quote]ToShinDo wrote:
tiredoflogin wrote:
ToShinDo wrote:
Buddha Gautama (supposedly) ate meat so long as the animal was not killed specifically for him. If it’s good enough for him, it’s good enough for me.
Firstly I don’t suppose thats true. He did indulge in all sorts of pleasures till the age of 24 after which he renounced everything to lead a life of austerity. Thats when he attained Nirvana. The commandment “Thou shalt not kill” is being violated by more Christians than ever.
Why not? Buddhist monks survive on almsfood. They can only eat what is given to them, no cultivation on their own. And it’s not as if they have money to buy food. So, if someone donates meat to them, they eat it, excepting certain forbidden animals. And again the animal must not have been killed specifically for them.
[/quote]
That’s hypocritcal bullshit. And these days, no animals are killed specifically for anyone in most cases. The animal still dies to feed you. That’s like those people who eat everything but are morally opposed to hunting. Gimme a break.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
I can’t believe you guys are actually entertaining this troll.
Funny stuff, but geez - you are drawing freaks and wierdos out of the woodwork to support him. [/quote]
True. Some strange people on this site, it seems…
First it was the twigs who want more ab definition and already weight 90lbs.
Now it seems T-Nation is slowly becoming V-nation!?!
People just need to think about it like this; If cows knew how tasty they were, they’d eat each other.
[quote]tiredoflogin wrote:
Not killing or otherwise harming other living creatures is of obvious benefit for them…
[/quote]
Well you started out well, but then you turned into another one of those veggie hypocrites…
[quote]tiredoflogin wrote:
Eating a vegetarian diet allows you to “tread more lightly on the planet.” in addition to taking only what you need and reducing excess, it will feel better when you know that a living being doesn?t have to die each time you eat a meal.
[/quote]
And I bet your one of those who promotes drinking water? Aren’t you? I will get back to that in a sec.
Do you realize that plants have feelings too? Every seen a venus flytrap? Plants have rudimentary nervous systems, rudimentary circulatory systems. What just because they can’t talk to you, your advocating killing trillions of them?
And what about insects? They have brains, they have hearts, they have lungs. They have mommies and daddies, and a sophisticated social structure. Do you know how many trillions of insects are killed every year harvesting your precious grains? Damn large tractor things crushing trillions of poor insects.
And where do you get off declaring what is sentient or not? Who made you a god to draw the line? There are insects that have better social structures and will defend their young much more vigorously then some clueless cows.
Your killing trillions of living things, but saving a few cows, wow you’re a saint.
And about the water. Trillions and trillions of unicellar organisms, bacteria (even the good kind that you would die without), yes your allies, prokaryotes, all live in the water supply. Yet you slaughter all these living things by supporting the water industry as they clean your water. And if your drinking rainwater, my god your swallowing live ones…you bastard!
I bet your breathing to? Arent you? Sucking in those poor bacteria, virus particles, acanthamoeba, only to let your lungs destroy them. Heathen!
What helps the planet more, plants or animals. Who makes the oxygen? Yet you want to slaughter the plants. Because you arbitrarily drew some line on things you will and will not kill.
Now, I am sure you live in the woods like me and never touch any man made products. Can you believe people live in those homes where small animals were killed, just to supply someone a place to live. Or visit those manmade stores that displaced and killed all those animals? Or used the internet, the laying of all that fiber, destroying all those habitats, killing all those animals.
If your want to reach true nirvana, be a true saint, you would not drink the water, you would not breath, and you certainly would not kill all those beneficial plants.
[quote]flabtoslab wrote:
People just need to think about it like this; If cows knew how tasty they were, they’d eat each other.[/quote]
hahaha!
[quote]BluePfaltz wrote:
Read Fast Food Nation by Eric Schlosser . Its a Great read and even better documentary into the lives of the Meatpacking industry.
[/quote]
McD’s is evil…simple as (is that McLibel?) The more people educate themselves about the food they put in their bodies, the better. However, it’s not just the crap food they serve. We have the choice to eat where we please, but the way that these companies market towards our kids makes me want to kick seven shades of shit out of that freaky McClown!
Where do I sign up with Tyler Durden? 
Dan
[quote]OneEye wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
BTW Jesus was a vegetarian if not completely vegan.
Do you have a source on that? I’ve never heard that before.
Even if he were, he didn’t seem to have a problem with other people eating meat (fish especially). I don’t think he’d condone the vegetarians that try to shove their “ideals” down our throats. It’s a personal lifestyle choice, like the other poster said.[/quote]
This is just another lie spread by a wacky special interest group.
It is best not to take these people too seriously.
[quote]Ahdanielsan wrote:
BluePfaltz wrote:
Read Fast Food Nation by Eric Schlosser . Its a Great read and even better documentary into the lives of the Meatpacking industry.
McD’s is evil…simple as (is that McLibel?) The more people educate themselves about the food they put in their bodies, the better. However, it’s not just the crap food they serve. We have the choice to eat where we please, but the way that these companies market towards our kids makes me want to kick seven shades of shit out of that freaky McClown!
Where do I sign up with Tyler Durden?
Dan
[/quote]
I don’t get it. We saw the same commercials as kids and there wasn’t an obesity problem. Eating at Mc Donald’s doesn’t make you fat. Eating there daily because your parents are too lazy to cook and because they would rather stuff your face with Mc burgers, Mc icecream and Mc cookies rather than hear your mouth is what makes kids fat.
A very interesting (and amusing) argument! As usual with this topic, the arguments are far more emotional than logical.
All moral and ethical reasoning aside, the case for vegetarianism can be a good one. And yes - for strength and power athletes too.
From my own experience (fourteen of thirty years vegetarian), I know that it is possible to be strong. I deadlift just under three times my body weight. No supplements, no drugs. By no means World Class, but that has never been my focus. I can also run a half-marathon in under 90 minutes.
Some points to consider:
Vegetables can be a very good source of protein too. Quinoa, for example, has an amino acid profile that is considered close to ideal (similar to that of milk).
Vegetables are far more easily and quickly digested, and can therefore be eaten more regularly, and in greater quantities.
Vegetables contain large amounts of vitamins and minerals for nervous system development. Very important - after all - what is responsible for producing muscular contraction?
Vegetables are high in energy.
Historical and scientific evidence seems to suggest that we have adapted, and readapted, to various dietary demands placed on us over the millenia. The same evidence suggests that we are built for a diet primarily of vegetable matter, but perhaps with small amounts of eggs, fish, game, etc. This is supported statistically by the fact that diets high in animal produce lead to higher instances of virtually all illnesses, including cancers.
For reasons of vitality and longevity, I would encourage everyone to consider a diet that is low in animal produce. However, at the end of the day it is a matter of personal choice. On a final note, however, I can say confidently that vegetarians are at no disadvantage.
[quote]jsbrook wrote:
ToShinDo wrote:
tiredoflogin wrote:
ToShinDo wrote:
Buddha Gautama (supposedly) ate meat so long as the animal was not killed specifically for him. If it’s good enough for him, it’s good enough for me.
Firstly I don’t suppose thats true. He did indulge in all sorts of pleasures till the age of 24 after which he renounced everything to lead a life of austerity. Thats when he attained Nirvana. The commandment “Thou shalt not kill” is being violated by more Christians than ever.
Why not? Buddhist monks survive on almsfood. They can only eat what is given to them, no cultivation on their own. And it’s not as if they have money to buy food. So, if someone donates meat to them, they eat it, excepting certain forbidden animals. And again the animal must not have been killed specifically for them.
That’s hypocritcal bullshit. And these days, no animals are killed specifically for anyone in most cases. The animal still dies to feed you. That’s like those people who eat everything but are morally opposed to hunting. Gimme a break.
[/quote]
Care to elaborate on this? My point was that in general Buddihists are portrayed as being vegetarian. My post was to show that this was not the case, and I explained the Buddhist reasoning behind it that allowed them to eat meat. I personally don’t care if something dies specifically for me or not, as long as it’s tasty.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
… BTW Jesus was a vegetarian if not completely vegan. You are obviously not a self respecting Christian because you lack any of Jesus’ traits. May you rot in hell with a million vegans at your side.[/quote]
I’ve never looked into Jesus’ dietary habits, but apparently he had nothing against feeding people fish, and nothing against providing wine for celebrations.
I don’t know about you Prof, but I’m 29 (in the UK), and I don’t remember the marketing being so aggressive when I was younger.
You can blame parents for everything if you like:
Smoking
Underage drinking
Obesity (now almost as bad in the UK, as it is in the US)
But the corporations making the junk - and spending billions markeing it towards kids - have to take some responsibility.
Do you expect parents to shadow their kids, and make sure they’re not buying sugar-packed shit from sponsored vending machines at school?
We’ll just have to agree to disagree on this one 
Dan
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Ahdanielsan wrote:
BluePfaltz wrote:
Read Fast Food Nation by Eric Schlosser . Its a Great read and even better documentary into the lives of the Meatpacking industry.
McD’s is evil…simple as (is that McLibel?) The more people educate themselves about the food they put in their bodies, the better. However, it’s not just the crap food they serve. We have the choice to eat where we please, but the way that these companies market towards our kids makes me want to kick seven shades of shit out of that freaky McClown!
Where do I sign up with Tyler Durden?
Dan
I don’t get it. We saw the same commercials as kids and there wasn’t an obesity problem. Eating at Mc Donald’s doesn’t make you fat. Eating there daily because your parents are too lazy to cook and because they would rather stuff your face with Mc burgers, Mc icecream and Mc cookies rather than hear your mouth is what makes kids fat.
[/quote]
Yup. It’s part of a whole societal shift.
It used to be a matter of shame not to feed your kids a decent meal. You wouldn’t want to be thought of as the type who would send your kids out to eat fast food.
Now people say, “Oh, I’m too busy to cook!” just like they say they’re too busy to work out. They let their kids have such complete home entertainment centers in their rooms that there’s no reason to get in some healthy sports and general running around and socializing outside; they can just play on their X-boxes and watch cable instead. They basically lock themselves off from responsibility for their kids and their kids’ health and absolve themselves from the results. Just like they push out of their minds the obligation to eat healthy meals themselves and take care of their own bodies.
This is supposed to have something to do with how busy modern life is, as if working two jobs or having both parents work is really a very new societal invention. And as if families on average hadn’t actually gotten much smaller than they used to be.
One thing I’ve got to admire my parents for, but it wasn’t unique to parents of their time, though it’s a rarity in ours: they took care of their kids’ health in all ways, including not letting them turn into lazy housebound unsocial slugs, ate much better even though much less was known about nutrition, kept active, and just didn’t make a lot of excuses. My dad, raised during the depression and a veteran of WWII, was a straightforward guy who got the job done, whatever it was. Excuses and laziness just weren’t a part of his lifestyle and not something he could relate to at all. Now, they’re more like a shared guilty pleasure, a game to go along with much like some women’s obssession with the pointless and often unflattering seasonal changes of “fashion,” and about which it can similarly said, if you roll your eyes and don’t want to play along, that you “just don’t get it.”
I’m put in mind of that old tsk-tsk scolding from mom’s: “If your friend jumped off a bridge, would you do it too?” Sometimes the excuses others make for themselves aren’t a good idea to adopt to make your life easier; they may seem to make it easier, at least in the short term, but they also often make it worse.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Ahdanielsan wrote:
BluePfaltz wrote:
Read Fast Food Nation by Eric Schlosser . Its a Great read and even better documentary into the lives of the Meatpacking industry.
McD’s is evil…simple as (is that McLibel?) The more people educate themselves about the food they put in their bodies, the better. However, it’s not just the crap food they serve. We have the choice to eat where we please, but the way that these companies market towards our kids makes me want to kick seven shades of shit out of that freaky McClown!
Where do I sign up with Tyler Durden?
Dan
I don’t get it. We saw the same commercials as kids and there wasn’t an obesity problem. Eating at Mc Donald’s doesn’t make you fat. Eating there daily because your parents are too lazy to cook and because they would rather stuff your face with Mc burgers, Mc icecream and Mc cookies rather than hear your mouth is what makes kids fat.
[/quote]
Exactly. While I dislike they way this stuff is marketed towards kids, I as a parent have control over what my kids watch on TV and what they eat.
[quote]Ahdanielsan wrote:
…
Do you expect parents to shadow their kids, and make sure they’re not buying sugar-packed shit from sponsored vending machines at school?
…
[/quote]
This bothers me a lot more than McDonalds. Schools are taking bribes from soda and candy companies and are pushing this shit.
This is a practice that should be stopped.
[quote]Ahdanielsan wrote:
I don’t know about you Prof, but I’m 29 (in the UK), and I don’t remember the marketing being so aggressive when I was younger.
You can blame parents for everything if you like:
Smoking
Underage drinking
Obesity (now almost as bad in the UK, as it is in the US)
But the corporations making the junk - and spending billions markeing it towards kids - have to take some responsibility.
Do you expect parents to shadow their kids, and make sure they’re not buying sugar-packed shit from sponsored vending machines at school?
We’ll just have to agree to disagree on this one
Dan
[/quote]
What neighborhood did you grow up in? The hamburgler? Ronald? That purple bell shaped monster muthafucker? Those pom pom shaped bastards? They were ALL heavily promoted and always have been. Star Wars sequals were originally released with Return of the Jedi Cups at Micky D’s. Mc Donald’s was always geared towards kids and only recently switched gears and tried to attract more adults. That was what always set it apart from any other fast food place. All Burger King had was…the Burger King.
You just choose to selectively remember what fits your agenda…let me guess…republican?
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Ahdanielsan wrote:
…
Do you expect parents to shadow their kids, and make sure they’re not buying sugar-packed shit from sponsored vending machines at school?
…
This bothers me a lot more than McDonalds. Schools are taking bribes from soda and candy companies and are pushing this shit.
This is a practice that should be stopped.[/quote]
But we all ate crap! I remember buying those Zingers during lunch in junior high…and we may have had ONE fat kid in all of my classes. But then, we played during lunch. Kids literally wolfed food down so they could spend more time on the basketball court. We ran home or rode bikes. We played outside until dark. THAT alone was the difference. That is why we could eat like crap and not get fat. Why people today want to blame food alone is beyond me.
[quote]panterarosa wrote:
A very interesting (and amusing) argument! As usual with this topic, the arguments are far more emotional than logical.
All moral and ethical reasoning aside, the case for vegetarianism can be a good one. And yes - for strength and power athletes too.
From my own experience (fourteen of thirty years vegetarian), I know that it is possible to be strong. I deadlift just under three times my body weight. No supplements, no drugs. By no means World Class, but that has never been my focus. I can also run a half-marathon in under 90 minutes.
Some points to consider:
Vegetables can be a very good source of protein too. Quinoa, for example, has an amino acid profile that is considered close to ideal (similar to that of milk).
Vegetables are far more easily and quickly digested, and can therefore be eaten more regularly, and in greater quantities.
Vegetables contain large amounts of vitamins and minerals for nervous system development. Very important - after all - what is responsible for producing muscular contraction?
Vegetables are high in energy.
Historical and scientific evidence seems to suggest that we have adapted, and readapted, to various dietary demands placed on us over the millenia. The same evidence suggests that we are built for a diet primarily of vegetable matter, but perhaps with small amounts of eggs, fish, game, etc. This is supported statistically by the fact that diets high in animal produce lead to higher instances of virtually all illnesses, including cancers.
For reasons of vitality and longevity, I would encourage everyone to consider a diet that is low in animal produce. However, at the end of the day it is a matter of personal choice. On a final note, however, I can say confidently that vegetarians are at no disadvantage.[/quote]
Easily the best post in this thread.
It’s ridiculous for people to approach this issue as if there’s a war going on and we all have to square off into opposing camps and vilify or ridicule each other. That’s pointless and assinine, and has a tendency not to convince anyone anyway.
That said, there’s more than enough evidence, both scientific and historical, that vegetarianism or near-vegetarianism can be very healthy lifestyles and do have some undeniable benefits.