Hey Cato! So I see your goals are to get stronger, awesome! And you don’t want to lose weight, Fantastic!
I’m a bit of newb myself and didn’t know how to properly lift until about a year ago - I HIGHLY recommend you get off the machines and work with the free weights. Life changing. I mean that. So good on you for the new upper body plan.
You might want to get a book that details proper form and look things up on you tube - that helped me a ton.
Are you going to do any leg work?
Right. Here’s what happened. All machines being Hammer Strength Iso Lateral (there are about three sets of machines, so now I feel a need to remember which one I used).
Barbell Row: 70 (+ whatever the bar weighs) 6x5
Bench Press (machine): 130 6x5
Tricep Dips: Body weight 6x5
Shoulder Press (machine): 90 6x5
Lat Pulldown (cable): 150 4x5
Dumbbell Press (Arnold): 25/arm 4x5
Questions I’m noting before I forget them (if you’re kind enough to answer, many thanks … I’ve not looked for the answers myself yet, mind):
When I looked around to find information on how to perform the non-machine exercises, I watched some videos for the Radical Hypertrophy Program under the assumption that, even if the program is not in line with my goals, the basic exercises would have the same form. Those people look like they know what’s what. In the Shoulders section, I found an exercise called the Upright Row. Is this considered a primary, secondary, auxiliary, or remedial exercise?
Why are exercises performed with barbells primary, while those using a similar movement but performed with dumbbells secondary or otherwise?
Given that I categorically refuse to perform any exercise during which I might be trapped under the weight (since I work out alone), the machine bench press cannot be replaced with a proper bench press. In this case, what are Gironda Dips? Are there any other options for primary chest exercises which could be performed alone?
Is a proper military press an acceptable exercise to perform alone?
I think I can add a bit of weight to the Barbell Row and the Arnold Press, but since I’m new to them I expect it’s more important to practice the proper form (even if I feel like an idiot for staring into the mirror).
I’m supposed to include an exercise I hate, and the Barbell Row is that exercise. Hands down. Why is it different? Is it the grip? The grip is closer to what the machine I’m accustomed to calls the “Rear Delt” movement, and it says the weight should be less for this than the row (which features a grip with the palms turned inward). How much of it is the grip, and how much is the stabilizers CBear84 mentioned?
What is appropriate for an Active Recovery day? Jumping rope? Shadow boxing? Speed or heavy bags? Any weight exercise I like so long as the weight is reduced to allow more repetitions? Sit ups?
Hiya,
So you have a lot of questions, and maybe the other ladies will happily answer them, but I’m going to say that for someone who’s never lifted before it might behoove you to ease into things (ladies flame me all you want!).
I don’t know, i just think you might want to start simply at first and then work from there - you can still make ridiculous strength gains - especially as a newb.
I’d even say forget these upper/lower splits and do 2 full body workouts 3 or 4x a week with back sqaut or front squat and DL variations as you main lifts and a couple of other accessory moves. Do that for 4 months and then switch to something more advanced. For ex.
Day 1
Squat
Pushups
Seated Row
Step ups
some ab move
Day 2
Deadlift
DB shoulder press
Underhand lat grip pull
DB or BB lunge
another ab move
Heck, you can even do a Day 3 bench day.
Then next cycle (after 3 weeks) just change up your accessories, do pullups or dips, or whatever.
Anyways, you say you want to “get strong” but you need to get some sort of baseline strength before you can start lifting heavy weights. Granted, you could be a beast and be totally strong, what do I know. But without proper form you’re not going to be able to healthfully lift heavy anyways. Just my opinion.
Hopefully this helps and doesn’t confuse you! But if you know what you want to do than its all good and I say go for it.
Good luck!
yes, Keep it Simple!
And this is another good site to browse around:
http://www.stumptuous.com/category/starting/starting_weight_training
[quote]Mascherano wrote:
Hiya,
So you have a lot of questions, and maybe the other ladies will happily answer them, but I’m going to say that for someone who’s never lifted before it might behoove you to ease into things (ladies flame me all you want!).
I don’t know, i just think you might want to start simply at first and then work from there - you can still make ridiculous strength gains - especially as a newb.
I’d even say forget these upper/lower splits and do 2 full body workouts 3 or 4x a week with back sqaut or front squat and DL variations as you main lifts and a couple of other accessory moves. Do that for 4 months and then switch to something more advanced. For ex.
Day 1
Squat
Pushups
Seated Row
Step ups
some ab move
Day 2
Deadlift
DB shoulder press
Underhand lat grip pull
DB or BB lunge
another ab move
Heck, you can even do a Day 3 bench day.
Then next cycle (after 3 weeks) just change up your accessories, do pullups or dips, or whatever.
Anyways, you say you want to “get strong” but you need to get some sort of baseline strength before you can start lifting heavy weights. Granted, you could be a beast and be totally strong, what do I know. But without proper form you’re not going to be able to healthfully lift heavy anyways. Just my opinion.
Hopefully this helps and doesn’t confuse you! But if you know what you want to do than its all good and I say go for it.
Good luck![/quote]
Thanks for the advice and encouragement! I’m trying (albeit clumsily) to use the guidance provided here:
So that’s where the basic idea of my new plan came from; I may have completely misinterpreted. I’m not sure how much weight constitutes “heavy” amongst the initiated, so I’m discarding external comparison and just going for as much weight as I can move properly and have a hard time doing it by the end of the set. As long as the weights I use eventually and progressively get heavier than they started out being, that’s good enough for me! Is there an advantage to a beginner doing whole body rather than upper/lower splits? Splits … look at me with my jargon!
I’ll definitely incorporate what you’ve said (especially about which lifts should be my main lifts).
Thanks again!
[quote]AlisaV wrote:
do you have barbell benches? I would do bench press with free weights instead (given your numbers you should have no problem handling the bar, at least.) 10x5 is probably too much. At a challenging weight, 6x5 is plenty, as you’ll find out.
I don’t know what people say about benching and overhead pressing in the same day. I don’t do it – for me, I think, I couldn’t perform well on both – but potentially someone who’s less of a pussy would disagree.[/quote]
I can’t do a barbell bench press for safety reasons, but I’ll be looking into something called Gironda Dips in a good faith effort to discard the machine. Thanks!
[quote]mom-in-MD wrote:
yes, Keep it Simple!
And this is another good site to browse around:
http://www.stumptuous.com/category/starting/starting_weight_training
[/quote]
Thanks!
New Lower Body Plan (weights TBD)
Deadlift: 6x5
Front Squat: 6x5
Good Morning: 4x5
Hack Squat: 4x5
And I suppose some calf raises. I see references to: Standing Calf Raises, Seated Calf Raises, Donkey Raises. I’m out of time to look these up right this second, so I don’t know if they come with special advantages (or even what a Donkey Raise is, actually).
[quote]cato wrote:
I can’t do a barbell bench press for safety reasons, but I’ll be looking into something called Gironda Dips in a good faith effort to discard the machine. Thanks!
[/quote]
If you have a squat cage in your gym with adjustable safety rails, put a bench in there with the rails set at a height to catch the bar should you fail. If you do fail on the bench, you most likely don’t drop the bar but just can’t get it off your chest. That’s where the safety rails help, they hold the bar while you squirm out from under. I train alone and this is what I do and yes I have failed. You may even see a video of it somewhere in the history of my training logs in the Over-35 area.
Lol! love the jargon.
First, I don’t think there’s any “better” program, unless you want to discuss minutae - you’re just starting out, so you want to a) get strong b) nail down the form. Any program can feasibly do this.
I mean, you need to design your program based on your abilities and how much time you can dedicate to it. So full body vs. splits is really a personal choice. I liked full body because I was able to learn a lot of lifts, make exceptional strenth gains (hah! INMHO) and figure out form (which is still a challenge today!). It took me about 7 months to go through the program that I first started on. There was unilateral work in there that I loved and really got my core tight.
Anyways, its up to you!
If you stick with splits, i would recommend you go less sets, higher reps. Just at the start - again for the sake of form. Go maybe 12-15? Meh. I don’t know. Just keep reading articles. hahah.
EDIT: Also, i looked at the articles - pretty good. But check out the bit about “indirect overload”. Your leg day is a lot of similar lifts. Do a squat, add a lunge, something for the posterior chain.
[quote]soldog wrote:
[quote]cato wrote:
I can’t do a barbell bench press for safety reasons, but I’ll be looking into something called Gironda Dips in a good faith effort to discard the machine. Thanks!
[/quote]
If you have a squat cage in your gym with adjustable safety rails, put a bench in there with the rails set at a height to catch the bar should you fail. If you do fail on the bench, you most likely don’t drop the bar but just can’t get it off your chest. That’s where the safety rails help, they hold the bar while you squirm out from under. I train alone and this is what I do and yes I have failed. You may even see a video of it somewhere in the history of my training logs in the Over-35 area.[/quote]
I didn’t think of that; thank you for the tip! I’ll look for the video.
[quote]Mascherano wrote:
Lol! love the jargon.
First, I don’t think there’s any “better” program, unless you want to discuss minutae - you’re just starting out, so you want to a) get strong b) nail down the form. Any program can feasibly do this.
I mean, you need to design your program based on your abilities and how much time you can dedicate to it. So full body vs. splits is really a personal choice. I liked full body because I was able to learn a lot of lifts, make exceptional strenth gains (hah! INMHO) and figure out form (which is still a challenge today!). It took me about 7 months to go through the program that I first started on. There was unilateral work in there that I loved and really got my core tight.
Anyways, its up to you!
If you stick with splits, i would recommend you go less sets, higher reps. Just at the start - again for the sake of form. Go maybe 12-15? Meh. I don’t know. Just keep reading articles. hahah.
EDIT: Also, i looked at the articles - pretty good. But check out the bit about “indirect overload”. Your leg day is a lot of similar lifts. Do a squat, add a lunge, something for the posterior chain.
[/quote]
An Excellent Point; thank you for the benefit of you experience. So, lunges of some sort rather than the hack squat (because you said the front squat and deadlift should be my main lifts, I definitely want to keep those). Should the second hamstring exercise be Good Morning or Glute Ham Raise, I wonder? I’ve never performed any of these, so I have to find video.
Thank you very much for your help. I expected to find a lot of information here, but not nearly as much help and advice! It’s rather motivating, actually. New jargon for the day: posterior chain.
[quote]cato wrote:
[quote]soldog wrote:
[quote]cato wrote:
I can’t do a barbell bench press for safety reasons, but I’ll be looking into something called Gironda Dips in a good faith effort to discard the machine. Thanks!
[/quote]
If you have a squat cage in your gym with adjustable safety rails, put a bench in there with the rails set at a height to catch the bar should you fail. If you do fail on the bench, you most likely don’t drop the bar but just can’t get it off your chest. That’s where the safety rails help, they hold the bar while you squirm out from under. I train alone and this is what I do and yes I have failed. You may even see a video of it somewhere in the history of my training logs in the Over-35 area.[/quote]
I didn’t think of that; thank you for the tip! I’ll look for the video.
[/quote]
I linked it in my “livespill” area in my hub rather than cluttering your log with my video. Hope it works, I’ve never tried this “livespill” thing.
[quote]soldog wrote:
[quote]cato wrote:
[quote]soldog wrote:
[quote]cato wrote:
I can’t do a barbell bench press for safety reasons, but I’ll be looking into something called Gironda Dips in a good faith effort to discard the machine. Thanks!
[/quote]
If you have a squat cage in your gym with adjustable safety rails, put a bench in there with the rails set at a height to catch the bar should you fail. If you do fail on the bench, you most likely don’t drop the bar but just can’t get it off your chest. That’s where the safety rails help, they hold the bar while you squirm out from under. I train alone and this is what I do and yes I have failed. You may even see a video of it somewhere in the history of my training logs in the Over-35 area.[/quote]
I didn’t think of that; thank you for the tip! I’ll look for the video.
[/quote]
I linked it in my “livespill” area in my hub rather than cluttering your log with my video. Hope it works, I’ve never tried this “livespill” thing.[/quote]
Oh, wow, thanks! I could definitely try that (assuming the benches aren’t bolted down, which I don’t think they are). That’s extraordinarily useful, especially because you have experience training alone.
This site is top notch.
No problem! But like I said, I myself am new to lifting so I’m not sure how much help I can be.
For ex. I’ve never done good mornings, so i can’t weigh in on that, and my gym doesn’t have a GHR machine, so I haven’t done those either. But a good default are back extensions.
Also, on snappers’s log is some good discussion re: the push/pull thing that cbear mentioned and check out kimba’s log too - also lots of information in there and lots of great vids.
keep working at it! When do you plan on starting?
Hi Cato! Just caught up on your log. It looks like you’re getting lots of great advice so far. I’ll try to chime in whenever I can (although I’m no expert).
Love your explanation of your log title.
Hello Cato:
I understand how daunting lifting can seem at first. All the different exercises and variations. Figuring out a training program. Understanding sets and reps and tempo and why any of this is important . . .
If you can find a good trainer, I think it’s well worth it to invest the bucks if you can for a time. I started with a trainer who (luckily) designed programs around the big lifts (squat, bench, and deadlift) rather than stuff like balancing one-legged on a Bosu while curling one arm at a 4-0-1-0 tempo with eyes closed. (I swear, that’s the kind of stuff the trainers do with their clients at my gym. NEVER have I seen them put someone in the cage or flat bench.) If you can’t afford a trainer, do lots of research and ask people who look like they know what they’re doing in your gym for guidance. People ask me occasionally and I’m ALWAYS thrilled to help. (Makes me feel important.)
Of course, all of us on here are glad to help. Good luck.
I recommend the trainer thing too!
But don’t don’t don’t hire one that is going to do stuff that K. mentioned…ugh! The trainers at my gym do that shit, and it pisses me off!
I’m the only one so far that seems to be ‘normal.’
I skimmed so sorry if there is minutiae I missed. You sound a lot like me, personality wise not physically. The key is to think less about it. Follow Mash’s basic plan. You should push and pull in the vertical plane, and push an pull in the horizontal plane with your upper body, then do some sort of deadlift and some sort of squat. If you’re brand new, that should be more than enough. Fuck, I’m not brand new and it’s more than enough for me.
The free weights can be scary. I don’t think a 45lb bar will kill you if it falls a foot, but then just use dumbells. Really, you don’t need a machine to bench. If that’s too much use your body weight. Try to perfect the push up.
Don’t worry about nomenclature, or primary and secondary movements at the moment. Learn, but keep your program really simple for a few months. If you can’t do basic movements, don’t worry about trying supplementary movements. Too often new people try to run before they can crawl, then they give up. We’re tortoises around here. Slow and steady progress is the key.
Barbell Row: 70+bar 6x5
Bench Press (machine): 130 6x5
Tricep Dips: Body weight 6x5
Overhead Press (machine): 90 6x5
Lat Pulldown (cable): 150 4x5
Arnold Press: 30 per arm 4x5
Edit: I lied, the last two exercises were 4 sets.