Carter Meets with Hamas, Again

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
161

[quote]Dustin wrote:
pat wrote:

I would prefer an article. Something referencable. I am not trusting youtube.com for factual information. If I did, I would have thought Gohan is the lead singer for Linkin Park.

As you wish.

I found these in about 2 minutes. All three are legit sources.

The fact that the palistinian terrorists have targeted Israeli citizens is well established, understood and documented. To say otherwise is simply not being honest. Even Aljazeera admits it from time to time.

I know they have done so, I’m not saying otherwise. I don’t think anyone is trying to say otherwise. That doesn’t justify what the Israelis are doing.

Dustin

[/quote]

I see where civilians get hurt by Israeli attacks, but what I do not see is the willful and deliberate targeting of civilians. With that said and while I do, by and large stand by Israel’s right to defend itself, I don’t always agree with their actions. I really think they should leave the occupied territories and cut all ties and relations to the territories. Let those who profess to care about the area deal with them. The problem is the palistinians want Jerusalem; they ain’t gonna get it, they have no more right to it than the Jews. If the Israeli’s leave (again) and the palistinians continue to attack, then woe to them. I cannot then blame Israel for attacking back.

162

[quote]will to power wrote:
pat wrote:
That is all, funny how nobody will answer them directly, so I guess we know the answers.

The answer is that I find your suggestion and your reasoning behind it offensive, and I doubt you would believe what I had to say anyway since you suggested in your post that I wouldn’t be honest about it. [/quote]

I don’t care if your offended. Everybody is offended from time to time. But if you cannot answer two simple questions with 2 simple answers I can only assume that you are avoiding the answers because you do in fact support the destruction of Israel, or at least would cry a blue tear if the country and it’s people were suddenly off’d. And further that you do think very little about Jewish people.
It’s not like that sentiment is rare is Lebanon, or anywhere in the Middle East and North Africa.

163

Four children killed in Gaza raid

164

Perhaps the Hamas thugs should not be using civilian neighborhoods as human shield, and bringing explosives to blow up Palestinian children.
[i]
"The Israeli army said it had "targeted from the air two Palestinian gunmen who were approaching the soldiers while carrying large bags on their backs.

“A big explosion erupted on the scene… indicating the presence of bombs and explosives in the gunmen’s bags,” the army said.

“As a result of this big explosion, extensive damage was caused to a house that was near the gunmen and uninvolved civilians were hit.”
[/i]

Hamas has determined the rules of engagement. The rules indicate that they will put civilians–both Israelis and Palestinians–at risk for their lives, indiscriminately, and blame Israel.
Their motto: “Hit first and cry loudest.”

165

[quote]Maccabee wrote:
Here is an interesting article about some of Arafat’s financial activities while he was alive. It is impossible to comprehend…

http://www.honestreporting.com/articles/45884734/critiques/Understanding_Palestinian_Poverty.asp[/quote]

“Israel is thereby accused of complete responsibility for the unfortunate state of the Palestinian economy. The AFP report provides no dissenting voices, and Israel is not granted the right of response to any one of these serious allegations.”

That statement is how you can tell the article is complete bullshit.

166

[quote]pat wrote:

I see where civilians get hurt by Israeli attacks, but what I do not see is the willful and deliberate targeting of civilians. [/quote]

Palestinian doctors despair at rising toll of children shot dead by army snipers

Not guilty. The Israeli captain who emptied his rifle into a Palestinain schoolgirl

167

[quote]pat wrote:
will to power wrote:
pat wrote:
That is all, funny how nobody will answer them directly, so I guess we know the answers.

The answer is that I find your suggestion and your reasoning behind it offensive, and I doubt you would believe what I had to say anyway since you suggested in your post that I wouldn’t be honest about it.

I don’t care if your offended. Everybody is offended from time to time. But if you cannot answer two simple questions with 2 simple answers I can only assume that you are avoiding the answers because you do in fact support the destruction of Israel, or at least would cry a blue tear if the country and it’s people were suddenly off’d. And further that you do think very little about Jewish people.
It’s not like that sentiment is rare is Lebanon, or anywhere in the Middle East and North Africa.[/quote]

Your inability to read between the lines is astounding. The answer to your questions is no, since you obviously need things spelled out before you move past your race based assumptions.

168

[quote]JustTheFacts wrote:
pat wrote:

I see where civilians get hurt by Israeli attacks, but what I do not see is the willful and deliberate targeting of civilians.

Palestinian doctors despair at rising toll of children shot dead by army snipers

Not guilty. The Israeli captain who emptied his rifle into a Palestinain schoolgirl

[/quote]

Hey I thought I smelled something…

169

[quote]will to power wrote:
pat wrote:
will to power wrote:
pat wrote:
That is all, funny how nobody will answer them directly, so I guess we know the answers.

The answer is that I find your suggestion and your reasoning behind it offensive, and I doubt you would believe what I had to say anyway since you suggested in your post that I wouldn’t be honest about it.

I don’t care if your offended. Everybody is offended from time to time. But if you cannot answer two simple questions with 2 simple answers I can only assume that you are avoiding the answers because you do in fact support the destruction of Israel, or at least would cry a blue tear if the country and it’s people were suddenly off’d. And further that you do think very little about Jewish people.
It’s not like that sentiment is rare is Lebanon, or anywhere in the Middle East and North Africa.

Your inability to read between the lines is astounding. The answer to your questions is no, since you obviously need things spelled out before you move past your race based assumptions. [/quote]

I don’t read between lines, there are no words there. And Tahnks you. My assumptions weren’t based on race, they were based on what you said and where you are from. I simply put 2 and 2 together. Again, you can’t tell me that extreme antisemitism is a rare thing over in that neck of the woods. You’re from Lebanon and you were bashing Israel, what are folks supposed to think? I bet 8 out of every 10 people you meet there wouldn’t piss on a Jew to put out a fire.

Got a good recipe for Babahanush? I could eat that shit until it came out my nose, that and some shwerma, mmmmmm.

170

[quote]pat wrote:
will to power wrote:
pat wrote:
will to power wrote:
pat wrote:
That is all, funny how nobody will answer them directly, so I guess we know the answers.

The answer is that I find your suggestion and your reasoning behind it offensive, and I doubt you would believe what I had to say anyway since you suggested in your post that I wouldn’t be honest about it.

I don’t care if your offended. Everybody is offended from time to time. But if you cannot answer two simple questions with 2 simple answers I can only assume that you are avoiding the answers because you do in fact support the destruction of Israel, or at least would cry a blue tear if the country and it’s people were suddenly off’d. And further that you do think very little about Jewish people.
It’s not like that sentiment is rare is Lebanon, or anywhere in the Middle East and North Africa.

Your inability to read between the lines is astounding. The answer to your questions is no, since you obviously need things spelled out before you move past your race based assumptions.

I don’t read between lines, there are no words there. And Tahnks you. My assumptions weren’t based on race, they were based on what you said and where you are from. I simply put 2 and 2 together. Again, you can’t tell me that extreme antisemitism is a rare thing over in that neck of the woods. You’re from Lebanon and you were bashing Israel, what are folks supposed to think? I bet 8 out of every 10 people you meet there wouldn’t piss on a Jew to put out a fire.
[/quote]

Since Dustin seems to think you’re an alright guy I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt, but I’d like to add that regardless of someone’s ethnicity having problems with Israel doesn’t mean they have a problem with Jews in general.

[quote]
Got a good recipe for Babahanush? I could eat that shit until it came out my nose, that and some shwerma, mmmmmm.[/quote]

Unfortunately, I’m a not much of a cook, but man, you should try the stuff either of my grandmothers make…

Not to mention that Lebanon is the only country I’ve been to where they always feel you’re not eating enough and aren’t big enough, no matter what. Most bulking friendly place ever.

171

[quote]will to power wrote:
pat wrote:
will to power wrote:
pat wrote:
will to power wrote:
pat wrote:
That is all, funny how nobody will answer them directly, so I guess we know the answers.

The answer is that I find your suggestion and your reasoning behind it offensive, and I doubt you would believe what I had to say anyway since you suggested in your post that I wouldn’t be honest about it.

I don’t care if your offended. Everybody is offended from time to time. But if you cannot answer two simple questions with 2 simple answers I can only assume that you are avoiding the answers because you do in fact support the destruction of Israel, or at least would cry a blue tear if the country and it’s people were suddenly off’d. And further that you do think very little about Jewish people.
It’s not like that sentiment is rare is Lebanon, or anywhere in the Middle East and North Africa.

Your inability to read between the lines is astounding. The answer to your questions is no, since you obviously need things spelled out before you move past your race based assumptions.

I don’t read between lines, there are no words there. And Tahnks you. My assumptions weren’t based on race, they were based on what you said and where you are from. I simply put 2 and 2 together. Again, you can’t tell me that extreme antisemitism is a rare thing over in that neck of the woods. You’re from Lebanon and you were bashing Israel, what are folks supposed to think? I bet 8 out of every 10 people you meet there wouldn’t piss on a Jew to put out a fire.

Since Dustin seems to think you’re an alright guy I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt, but I’d like to add that regardless of someone’s ethnicity having problems with Israel doesn’t mean they have a problem with Jews in general.

Got a good recipe for Babahanush? I could eat that shit until it came out my nose, that and some shwerma, mmmmmm.

Unfortunately, I’m a not much of a cook, but man, you should try the stuff either of my grandmothers make…

Not to mention that Lebanon is the only country I’ve been to where they always feel you’re not eating enough and aren’t big enough, no matter what. Most bulking friendly place ever. [/quote]

There is a Lebanese restaurant in Knoxville, TN that is just to die for. They are, of course Lebanese, if you ask them for home cooking they give it to you, I can’t get enough. It’s a little hole in the wall on Kingston Pike, across the street from the Cadillac dealership called “Ali Baba’s Time Out Delicatessen”. If you ever happen to got there it is great. I have driven to Knoxville several times, just to eat there.

172

[quote]pat wrote:
I have driven to Knoxville several times, just to eat there.
[/quote]

Oil, bitch?

173

[quote]lixy wrote:
pat wrote:
I have driven to Knoxville several times, just to eat there.

Oil, bitch?[/quote]

Ha! Gas at that time was like $.95 a gallon. It was no biggie. I’d still do it if I had the time though.
Hell I drive 25 miles, (40 km) to work daily, in traffic, one way. I am not a stranger to the gas pump.

174

[quote]pat wrote:
Ha! Gas at that time was like $.95 a gallon. It was no biggie. [/quote]

Common sense be damned.

175

[quote]pat wrote:

I see where civilians get hurt by Israeli attacks, but what I do not see is the willful and deliberate targeting of civilians. [/quote]

The first link is an investigation into the murder of Palestinian civilians by Israeli forces.

http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/MDE15/020/2008/en/625a25bc-16a6-11dd-89e2-354ccbabfbe7/mde150202008eng.html

The next article is another example of Israeli disregard for Palestinians just attempting to survive.

http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/feature-stories/unlawful-homes-israeli-settlers-demolitions-palestinians-20080331

Dustin

176

Jimmy Carter is an embarrassment.

http://www.volokh.com/posts/1209602039.shtml

[i][David Bernstein, April 30, 2008 at 8:33pm] Trackbacks
A Remarkable Definition of Terrorism from Jimmy Carter:

Carter on Charlie Rose (Transcript from Nexis): “I think any time any powerhouse takes military action when it’s a high danger or almost an inevitability that women and children are going to be killed, I think that can be considered an act of terrorism, yes.” Note that Carter’s definition of “terrorism” means that no “powerhouse” can ever fight any war, no matter how justified, without being guilty of “terrorism” just as bad as the likes of Hamas (see below) or Al Qaeda–war, after all, just about always means a high danger of civilian casualties.

Here’s the fuller context, which doesn’t make Carter look any less foolish:

JIMMY CARTER I have condemned the shelling of a little town of Sderot, which I visited, and Ashkelon, which I also visited, as an act of unforgivable terrorism, because the people who suffered -- they have been shelling for seven years. Thirteen people have been killed. And the people of Sderot are living in terror. It`s a town of about 20,000 people. We spent a couple hours, two or three hours with the mayor. And you ride through this town and there`s nobody on the street. Nobody on the playgrounds.

CHARLIE ROSE: Right.

JIMMY CARTER: They're afraid of these rockets. Well, if you look at the statistics from last year, 2007, every time one Israeli was killed, 40 Palestinians were killed by attacks by Israel against Gaza. And if you just look at children, every time an Israeli child is killed, eight Palestinian children are killed. So you can't just say that all of the blame lies on one or the other.

[quote] So what I try to do…

CHARLIE ROSE: But more [blame on] one [Hamas] than the other [Israel]?

JIMMY CARTER I'm sorry?

CHARLIE ROSE: More one or the other?

JIMMY CARTER: I don`t even say that. You know, I think any time any powerhouse takes military action when it`s a high danger or almost an inevitability that women and children are going to be killed, I think that can be considered an act of terrorism, yes.

CHARLIE ROSE: So Israel is engaging in acts of terrorism?

JIMMY CARTER: I think both are equally guilty, yes.[/quote]

Rose at some point also said some along the lines that Carter is almost universally considered a great ex-president. Rose doesn’t travel is the same circles I do, obviously.[/i]

177

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
Jimmy Carter is an embarrassment.
[/quote]

[i]Attacks in Lebanon Violated Laws of War[/i]

The human devastation inflicted on Lebanon by Israel�??s illegal use of cluster munitions highlights the urgent need for an international treaty banning the weapon, Human Rights Watch said in releasing a report today. At a conference this week, more than 100 states will discuss a treaty to ban cluster munitions, a process prompted in part by Israel�??s cluster attacks on Lebanon in 2006.

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2008/02/17/isrlpa18071.htm

Attacks by Palestinian Armed Groups No Excuse for Collective Punishment

Israel�??s cuts of fuel and electricity to Gaza, set to escalate today, amount to collective punishment of the civilian population, and violate Israel�??s obligations under the laws of war…

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2008/02/07/isrlpa17994.htm

Dustin

178

What exactly is this international humanitarian law to which HRW refers? A treaty obligation? A UN Security Counsel resolution? I checked the link but didn’t see any actual references, though I did see references to treaties that HRW wants to get signed.

179

Also, beware of organizations claiming one thing “amounts to” something else - what that means is that they can’t prove the something else under existing laws.

180

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:

JIMMY CARTER: They're afraid of these rockets. Well, if you look at the statistics from last year, 2007, every time one Israeli was killed, 40 Palestinians were killed by attacks by Israel against Gaza. And if you just look at children, every time an Israeli child is killed, eight Palestinian children are killed. So you can't just say that all of the blame lies on one or the other.

[/quote]

Agree with you on Carter’s silly definition of terrorism, but this point is spot on, and something few defenders of Zionism confront.