Well, except his math is off by a factor of about 1000%…
http://tigerhawk.blogspot.com/2008/04/carter-lies-in-cairo.html
[quote]GDollars37 wrote:
BostonBarrister wrote:
JIMMY CARTER: They're afraid of these rockets. Well, if you look at the statistics from last year, 2007, every time one Israeli was killed, 40 Palestinians were killed by attacks by Israel against Gaza. And if you just look at children, every time an Israeli child is killed, eight Palestinian children are killed. So you can't just say that all of the blame lies on one or the other.
Agree with you on Carter’s silly definition of terrorism, but this point is spot on, and something few defenders of Zionism confront.
[/quote]
Actually, they do. They talk about “hiding behind civilians”, as if every last one of the Palestinians isn’t fighting the occupation.
[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
BostonBarrister wrote:
JIMMY CARTER: They're afraid of these rockets. Well, if you look at the statistics from last year, 2007, every time one Israeli was killed, 40 Palestinians were killed by attacks by Israel against Gaza. And if you just look at children, every time an Israeli child is killed, eight Palestinian children are killed. So you can't just say that all of the blame lies on one or the other.
GDollars37 wrote:
Agree with you on Carter’s silly definition of terrorism, but this point is spot on, and something few defenders of Zionism confront.
Well, except his math is off by a factor of about 1000%…
http://tigerhawk.blogspot.com/2008/04/carter-lies-in-cairo.html[/quote]
He was probably factoring in the deaths from Israel’s collective punishments.
[quote]lixy wrote:
pat wrote:
Ha! Gas at that time was like $.95 a gallon. It was no biggie.
Common sense be damned.[/quote]
Common sense? It’s my car, my money and my gas. I live in a place where I can do such things if I want to. What in the world does that have to do with common sense? I can and do what ever I please.
[quote]Dustin wrote:
pat wrote:
I see where civilians get hurt by Israeli attacks, but what I do not see is the willful and deliberate targeting of civilians.
The first link is an investigation into the murder of Palestinian civilians by Israeli forces.
A key line in the above story: “Amnesty International is also calling on Palestinian armed groups to cease launching attacks from populated areas and against Israeli civilians.”
I.E. militants using them as human shields. Though, like I said, any innocent death is tragic and the Israeli’s must be more careful when attacking the militants. Still not a woeful and deliberate attack on civilians themselves, though tragically some were.
[quote]
The next article is another example of Israeli disregard for Palestinians just attempting to survive.
Dustin[/quote]
House demolition is typically justified by the Israeli Defence Forces on claims of:
Deterrence, achieved by harming the relatives of those who carry out, or are suspected of involvement in carrying out, attacks.[3]
Counter-terrorism, by destroying militant facilities such as bombs labs, headquarters, and offices.
Forcing out an individual barricaded inside a house, which may be rigged with explosives, without risking soldiers’ lives.
Self-defence, by destroying possible hideouts and RPG/gun posts.
Combat engineering, clearing a path for tanks and heavy APCs.
We can go tit-for-tat on this endlessly if you’d like. You come up with stories and I’ll come up with counter stories.
[quote]Dustin wrote:
BostonBarrister wrote:
Jimmy Carter is an embarrassment.
[i]Attacks in Lebanon Violated Laws of War[/i]
The human devastation inflicted on Lebanon by Israel�??s illegal use of cluster munitions highlights the urgent need for an international treaty banning the weapon, Human Rights Watch said in releasing a report today. At a conference this week, more than 100 states will discuss a treaty to ban cluster munitions, a process prompted in part by Israel�??s cluster attacks on Lebanon in 2006.
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2008/02/17/isrlpa18071.htm
Attacks by Palestinian Armed Groups No Excuse for Collective Punishment
Israel�??s cuts of fuel and electricity to Gaza, set to escalate today, amount to collective punishment of the civilian population, and violate Israel�??s obligations under the laws of war…
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2008/02/07/isrlpa17994.htm
Dustin
[/quote]
Laws of war? Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds? There is only one law in war, win.
[quote]pat wrote:
A key line in the above story: “Amnesty International is also calling on Palestinian armed groups to cease launching attacks from populated areas and against Israeli civilians.”
[/quote]
I certainly agree with this. It doesn’t, however, relieve the Israeli military from targeting civilians with weaponry we give them.
So Israel can do pretty much as they please under guise of “counter-terrorism” and/or “deterrence”? That is propaganda. It gives them an excuse to do whatever the hell they want to the Palestinians.
My “stories” are provided by human rights watch groups who are as unbiased and objective as one can probably find for news sources.
Your “stories” are mere excuses provided by the Israeli military (see propaganda) to continue their brutal treatment of Palestinians.
We can end this discussion here if you want. I’m just trying to lay it all out since the MSM doesn’t want to report this conflict accurately.
Dustin
[quote]pat wrote:
Laws of war? Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds? There is only one law in war, win.[/quote]
We can argue how ridiculous they are, but the bottom line is that the international community recognizes these laws, as does the U.S, if I’m not mistaken. At least, on paper the U.S government recognizes it. They certainly don’t seem to care if their “allies” violate these treaties/laws.
By your argument, I could make the claim that the Nazi hierarchy should not have been executed at Nuremberg.
Dustin
[quote]lixy wrote:
BostonBarrister wrote:
BostonBarrister wrote:
JIMMY CARTER: They're afraid of these rockets. Well, if you look at the statistics from last year, 2007, every time one Israeli was killed, 40 Palestinians were killed by attacks by Israel against Gaza. And if you just look at children, every time an Israeli child is killed, eight Palestinian children are killed. So you can't just say that all of the blame lies on one or the other.
GDollars37 wrote:
Agree with you on Carter’s silly definition of terrorism, but this point is spot on, and something few defenders of Zionism confront.
Well, except his math is off by a factor of about 1000%…
http://tigerhawk.blogspot.com/2008/04/carter-lies-in-cairo.html
He was probably factoring in the deaths from Israel’s collective punishments.[/quote]
Or he was lying.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Or he was lying.[/quote]
Or he is senile.
Or Kang and Kodos have morphed into him while Jim is in outer space.
Or it was all CGI effects.
Or he is on Hamas’ payroll.
Or we’re all in the Matrix.
Or he is just an individual who held a public office in the US and got disillusioned by the way Americans are brainwashed.
[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
What exactly is this international humanitarian law to which HRW refers? A treaty obligation? A UN Security Counsel resolution? I checked the link but didn’t see any actual references, though I did see references to treaties that HRW wants to get signed.[/quote]
Neither the parties to the conflict nor members of their armed forces have an unlimited right to choose methods and means of warfare. It is forbidden to use weapons or methods of warfare that are likely to cause unnecessary losses or excessive suffering.
Dustin
[quote]lixy wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Or he was lying.
Or he is senile.
Or Kang and Kodos have morphed into him while Jim is in outer space.
Or it was all CGI effects.
Or he is on Hamas’ payroll.
Or we’re all in the Matrix.
Or he is just an individual who held a public office in the US and got disillusioned by the way Americans are brainwashed.[/quote]
What a bunch of nonsense. Carter tells a blatant lie and you post this tripe?
No wonder so many people don’t take you seriously.
[quote]Dustin wrote:
BostonBarrister wrote:
What exactly is this international humanitarian law to which HRW refers? A treaty obligation? A UN Security Counsel resolution? I checked the link but didn’t see any actual references, though I did see references to treaties that HRW wants to get signed.
Neither the parties to the conflict nor members of their armed forces have an unlimited right to choose methods and means of warfare. It is forbidden to use weapons or methods of warfare that are likely to cause unnecessary losses or excessive suffering.
Dustin[/quote]
Like blowing up buses and cafes or like shooting rockets randomly into neighborhoods? How can you possibly think this is OK and destroying terrorists houses is not?
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Dustin wrote:
BostonBarrister wrote:
What exactly is this international humanitarian law to which HRW refers? A treaty obligation? A UN Security Counsel resolution? I checked the link but didn’t see any actual references, though I did see references to treaties that HRW wants to get signed.
Neither the parties to the conflict nor members of their armed forces have an unlimited right to choose methods and means of warfare. It is forbidden to use weapons or methods of warfare that are likely to cause unnecessary losses or excessive suffering.
Dustin
Like blowing up buses and cafes or like shooting rockets randomly into neighborhoods? How can you possibly think this is OK and destroying terrorists houses is not?
[/quote]
Yes, why do you support acts of terror committed against Israeli citizens?
The logic, so far as I can see is, “Israel done bad things, so it’s ok to blow up the people. After all they are only Jews.”
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Like blowing up buses and cafes or like shooting rockets randomly into neighborhoods? How can you possibly think this is OK and destroying terrorists houses is not?
[/quote]
I think Orion questioned your reading comprehension skills in a different thread and I can see why.
I’ll ask you to go back and read my posts in this fucking thread and point out where I said any of that is okay.
Did you read the link? Did you see the source I cited? They were not terrorists, they were civilians who had their fucking homes bulldozed.
Your proving my point. All the Israel military has to do is say they did it because they are “rooting out terrorists”. Whether the individuals in question are is irrelevant to you.
Dustin
[quote]pat wrote:
Yes, why do you support acts of terror committed against Israeli citizens?
[/quote]
When did I say this? I never said anything to that effect.
I do recall this being said:
[quote]pat wrote:
A key line in the above story: “Amnesty International is also calling on Palestinian armed groups to cease launching attacks from populated areas and against Israeli civilians.” [/quote]
Then, I replied with:
I can’t break it down any further than that.
[quote]
The logic, so far as I can see is, “Israel done bad things, so it’s ok to blow up the people. After all they are only Jews.” [/quote]
You’re making no sense. I didn’t say this, nor did anyone else in this thread. Get a grip.
Dustin
[quote]Dustin wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Like blowing up buses and cafes or like shooting rockets randomly into neighborhoods? How can you possibly think this is OK and destroying terrorists houses is not?
I think Orion questioned your reading comprehension skills in a different thread and I can see why.
I’ll ask you to go back and read my posts in this fucking thread and point out where I said any of that is okay.
Did you read the link? Did you see the source I cited? They were not terrorists, they were civilians who had their fucking homes bulldozed.
Your proving my point. All the Israel military has to do is say they did it because they are “rooting out terrorists”. Whether the individuals in question are is irrelevant to you.
Dustin[/quote]
When Israel targets the home of a known terrorists, it is not terrorism. It is a legitimate target of war. When they send a suicide bomber on a bus to kill people on their way to work and school it is not. Oh wait, Israel does not do that part.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
When Israel targets the home of a known terrorists, it is not terrorism. It is a legitimate target of war. When they send a suicide bomber on a bus to kill people on their way to work and school it is not. Oh wait, Israel does not do that part.
[/quote]
The question is really one of motivation. Why do the Palestinians commit acts of terror on Israeli citizens? Is it really because they are occupied?
If so, then why did the various Palestinian terror groups ramp up attacks on Israel when Israel left Gaza? They not only left, but they kicked all the Israeli’s asses back to Israel and bulldozed Israeli settlements. What does Israel get, more suicide bombs and rockets and kidnappings and such nonsense. So pardon moi, if I have trouble believing Palestinian motivation for attacking Israel is liberty. They won their liberty and attacked even more and hence Israel moves back in.
Do the palistinians really just want to live in peace on their own land, or are they just hell bent on destroying Israel just because it’s Israel and it’s full of Jews. Are we sure it doesn’t have something to do with the “prophecy” the dyskee shared with us, that “Jesus will come back and kill the anti-Christ and all the Jews.” ?
It is my opinion that the palistians won’t be satisfied until there is no Israel. Hence, I give them no credence or recognition as they would happily commit genocide on a mass scale if they could. It’s their destiny is it not?
[quote]pat wrote:
The logic, so far as I can see is, “Israel done bad things, so it’s ok to blow up the people. After all they are only Jews.” [/quote]
What are you? Stupid?
There are countless Jews opposed to what Israel does.
Israel is an anomaly. You can’t just pump millions of people somewhere and expect the locals to welcome them. Especially not when you impose an Apartheid-like regime on them.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
When Israel targets the home of a known terrorists, it is not terrorism. It is a legitimate target of war.
[/quote]
In the case of the article I posted, that I’m sure you didn’t read, the Palestinian settlers where not terrorists.
From the article:
Most of the Palestinians in the area are shepherds, but, in recent years, the scarcity of rain water has reduced the availability of grazing land for their flocks and their ability to cultivate their land. In addition, the frequent attacks by Israeli settlers and the increased restrictions imposed by the Israeli army on their movements have further reduced their access to grazing land and their ability to cultivate their land.
You are correct. Israel does not need to do that because they have tanks and attack helicopters for murdering civilians.
Dustin