Carter Meets with Hamas, Again

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
121

[quote]Sloth wrote:
will to power wrote:
Sloth wrote:
I suggest the Palestinian people turn the resistance inwards against those who’ve now indoctrinated generations of their youth with the concept of an everlasting holy war.

Edit: Well, not everlasting, I suppose. At least till the Hour of Ressurection.

A ridiculous notion, their country is under attack and you want them to engage in civil war.

http://www.jordanembassyus.org/arab_initiative.htm

Then the Palestinians will continue to see their youth filled to the brim with holy jihad and anti-Jew hatred. Which means this will go on forever. Nothing to see here, move along.[/quote]

Or, Israel could accept one of the peace initiatives. An option you clearly consider not to exist, believe the Arabs must simply capitulate to the occupation of their lands or be wiped out, which you’re obviously fine with.

122

[quote]Guerrero wrote:
Loss of one of the most sacred cities of Islam to a group of what they percieved as European settlers. [/quote]

It’s the third “most sacred” city in Islam for the same reasons it is sacred in Christianity and Judaism.

And I think that “European settlers” was more than just a perception.

“Entire agenda”?

I would love to hear what constitutes this “alot of Arab states” where the people were allegedly cheering at the idea of being untermenschen.

123

[quote]will to power wrote:
Sloth wrote:
will to power wrote:
Sloth wrote:
I suggest the Palestinian people turn the resistance inwards against those who’ve now indoctrinated generations of their youth with the concept of an everlasting holy war.

Edit: Well, not everlasting, I suppose. At least till the Hour of Ressurection.

A ridiculous notion, their country is under attack and you want them to engage in civil war. So much more ridiculous when, as I’ve mentioned, Israel is being offered peace plans in exchange for ceasing their invasion.

The text of the Arab Peace Initiative in case anyone is interested

http://www.jordanembassyus.org/arab_initiative.htm

Ah, the “Muslim demographic bomb, you’ll accept our terms for peace, or there won’t be peace” initiative. Right.

Another ridiculous and one sided interpretation. It is an offer of peace, with terms. Terms mostly based on United Nations resolutions, no less. There has not even been a counter offer.

The spokesman for Hamas in the Palestinian parliament, Salah al-Bardawil, told Haaretz, “we will not agree to recognition of Israel or peace with it [as it appears in the initiative]. We have no problem with the part of the initiative that calls for the establishment of a Palestinian state on the 1967 borders and the right of refugees to return.”
http://www.haaretz.com/...ges/843076.html

That I wasn’t aware of, and is pretty stupid. But as I mentioned, a 10 year truce is plenty of time for a change of government, one that may be looking to make peace.

And again, Israel makes no peace offers whatsoever, but for that you do not fault them, you only fault Hamas for offering limited peace terms. [/quote]

A counter offer? No. Negotions, is what is needed. Not the losers in the wars/actions aimed at Israel’s destruction saying “Here’s the terms. Accept them, or no peace.” And, of course the “right of return” all the way back to '48. The “destroy the state of Israel without firing a shot, plan.” You see, when you set out to wipe a nation off the face of the Earth, you don’t act like you won when it comes to the peace process.

124

[quote]will to power wrote:

Or, Israel could accept one of the peace initiatives. An option you clearly consider not to exist, believe the Arabs must simply capitulate to the occupation of their lands or be wiped out, which you’re obviously fine with.[/quote]

Well, since I’ve said nothing of the sort…

125

[quote]Sloth wrote:
will to power wrote:
Sloth wrote:
I suggest the Palestinian people turn the resistance inwards against those who’ve now indoctrinated generations of their youth with the concept of an everlasting holy war.

Edit: Well, not everlasting, I suppose. At least till the Hour of Ressurection.

A ridiculous notion, their country is under attack and you want them to engage in civil war.

http://www.jordanembassyus.org/arab_initiative.htm

Then the Palestinians will continue to see their youth filled to the brim with holy jihad and anti-Jew hatred. Which means this will go on forever. Nothing to see here, move along.[/quote]

“Nothing to see here”? Seriously? Don’t you think WTP might be rightly concerned. Because maybe he heard accounts of Sabra and Shatila, the regular IDF incursions into Lebanon or witnessed the destruction and horror the Israeli attack on the country caused.

Not to beat a dead horse, but the main reason Lebanon has been such a mess is the Zionist state.

126

[quote]lixy wrote:
Sloth wrote:
will to power wrote:
Sloth wrote:
I suggest the Palestinian people turn the resistance inwards against those who’ve now indoctrinated generations of their youth with the concept of an everlasting holy war.

Edit: Well, not everlasting, I suppose. At least till the Hour of Ressurection.

A ridiculous notion, their country is under attack and you want them to engage in civil war.

http://www.jordanembassyus.org/arab_initiative.htm

Then the Palestinians will continue to see their youth filled to the brim with holy jihad and anti-Jew hatred. Which means this will go on forever. Nothing to see here, move along.

“Nothing to see here”? Seriously? Don’t you think WTP might be rightly concerned. Because maybe he heard accounts of Sabra and Shatila, the regular IDF incursions into Lebanon or witnessed the destruction and horror the Israeli attack on the country caused.

Not to beat a dead horse, but the main reason Lebanon has been such a mess is the Zionist state.[/quote]

There is nothing to see. You wish for the impossible. You don’t cling to the holy goal of wiping out a nation(and actually trying to), and then say, “yeah, here’s the terms for 10 years of peace.” Nor, do you offer peace plans you know would demographically topple Israel. And, you certainly don’t offer them, as the loser (multiple times) as a take it or leave it deal.

But, if you folks want to continue to think Nazi level propoganda from grade school, to adulthood, and into the mosques, allows for a reasonable level of confidence that “hey, these people do want peace with us,…”

127

[quote]lixy wrote:
Sloth wrote:
will to power wrote:
Sloth wrote:
I suggest the Palestinian people turn the resistance inwards against those who’ve now indoctrinated generations of their youth with the concept of an everlasting holy war.

Edit: Well, not everlasting, I suppose. At least till the Hour of Ressurection.

A ridiculous notion, their country is under attack and you want them to engage in civil war.

http://www.jordanembassyus.org/arab_initiative.htm

Then the Palestinians will continue to see their youth filled to the brim with holy jihad and anti-Jew hatred. Which means this will go on forever. Nothing to see here, move along.

“Nothing to see here”? Seriously? Don’t you think WTP might be rightly concerned. Because maybe he heard accounts of Sabra and Shatila, the regular IDF incursions into Lebanon or witnessed the destruction and horror the Israeli attack on the country caused.

Not to beat a dead horse, but the main reason Lebanon has been such a mess is the Zionist state.[/quote]

Gee, I wonder why IDF might have done so? Hmm, gosh, gee, are we leaving something out? A certain organization as a proxy army? Backed by a certain country’s “revolutionaries?” Hmm, what are we forgetting?

128

[quote]Sloth wrote:
And again, Israel makes no peace offers whatsoever, but for that you do not fault them, you only fault Hamas for offering limited peace terms.

A counter offer? No. Negotions, is what is needed. Not the losers in the wars/actions aimed at Israel’s destruction saying “Here’s the terms. Accept them, or no peace.” And, of course the “right of return” all the way back to '48. The “destroy the state of Israel without firing a shot, plan.” You see, when you set out to wipe a nation off the face of the Earth, you don’t act like you won when it comes to the peace process.[/quote]

Perhaps you don’t understand how negotiations work. One side makes an offer, the other makes a counter offer, and so on until both sides come to a compromise. Israel has made no counter offers [they have not tried to negotiated, in case you’re not following] and so your suggestion that the Arabs are unwilling to negotiate is totally baseless.

It is the Israelis who are not negotiating. It’s also irrelevant that the Palestinians are losing here, they have offered to stop resisting and to call a truce in exchange for Israeli withdrawal from their territory. If Israel truly does want peace, then why would they just ignore that? Unless they want to use the fact that they’re in the superior position to destroy the Palestinian state altogether.

129

[quote]lixy wrote:
“Nothing to see here”? Seriously? Don’t you think WTP might be rightly concerned. Because maybe he heard accounts of Sabra and Shatila, the regular IDF incursions into Lebanon or witnessed the destruction and horror the Israeli attack on the country caused.

Not to beat a dead horse, but the main reason Lebanon has been such a mess is the Zionist state.[/quote]

But lixy, they withdrew from some of my country, don’t you know that means that any further hostility is Lebanon’s fault?

130

[quote]will to power wrote:
Sloth wrote:
And again, Israel makes no peace offers whatsoever, but for that you do not fault them, you only fault Hamas for offering limited peace terms.

A counter offer? No. Negotions, is what is needed. Not the losers in the wars/actions aimed at Israel’s destruction saying “Here’s the terms. Accept them, or no peace.” And, of course the “right of return” all the way back to '48. The “destroy the state of Israel without firing a shot, plan.” You see, when you set out to wipe a nation off the face of the Earth, you don’t act like you won when it comes to the peace process.

Perhaps you don’t understand how negotiations work. One side makes an offer, the other makes a counter offer, and so on until both sides come to a compromise. Israel has made no counter offers [they have not tried to negotiated, in case you’re not following] and so your suggestion that the Arabs are unwilling to negotiate is totally baseless.

It is the Israelis who are not negotiating. It’s also irrelevant that the Palestinians are losing here, they have offered to stop resisting and to call a truce in exchange for Israeli withdrawal from their territory. If Israel truly does want peace, then why would they just ignore that? Unless they want to use the fact that they’re in the superior position to destroy the Palestinian state altogether. [/quote]

There can’t be counter offers to the Arab Peace Initiative…

131

[quote]will to power wrote:
Sloth wrote:
And again, Israel makes no peace offers whatsoever, but for that you do not fault them, you only fault Hamas for offering limited peace terms.

A counter offer? No. Negotions, is what is needed. Not the losers in the wars/actions aimed at Israel’s destruction saying “Here’s the terms. Accept them, or no peace.” And, of course the “right of return” all the way back to '48. The “destroy the state of Israel without firing a shot, plan.” You see, when you set out to wipe a nation off the face of the Earth, you don’t act like you won when it comes to the peace process.

Perhaps you don’t understand how negotiations work. One side makes an offer, the other makes a counter offer, and so on until both sides come to a compromise. Israel has made no counter offers [they have not tried to negotiated, in case you’re not following] and so your suggestion that the Arabs are unwilling to negotiate is totally baseless.

It is the Israelis who are not negotiating. It’s also irrelevant that the Palestinians are losing here, they have offered to stop resisting and to call a truce in exchange for Israeli withdrawal from their territory. If Israel truly does want peace, then why would they just ignore that? Unless they want to use the fact that they’re in the superior position to destroy the Palestinian state altogether. [/quote]

Yipee! A TEMPORARY TRUCE if you retreat to borders that will allow us to rocket you even more effictively in the future!

132

[quote]Sloth wrote:
lixy wrote:
Sloth wrote:
will to power wrote:
Sloth wrote:
I suggest the Palestinian people turn the resistance inwards against those who’ve now indoctrinated generations of their youth with the concept of an everlasting holy war.

Edit: Well, not everlasting, I suppose. At least till the Hour of Ressurection.

A ridiculous notion, their country is under attack and you want them to engage in civil war.

http://www.jordanembassyus.org/arab_initiative.htm

Then the Palestinians will continue to see their youth filled to the brim with holy jihad and anti-Jew hatred. Which means this will go on forever. Nothing to see here, move along.

“Nothing to see here”? Seriously? Don’t you think WTP might be rightly concerned. Because maybe he heard accounts of Sabra and Shatila, the regular IDF incursions into Lebanon or witnessed the destruction and horror the Israeli attack on the country caused.

Not to beat a dead horse, but the main reason Lebanon has been such a mess is the Zionist state.

There is nothing to see. You wish for the impossible. You don’t cling to the holy goal of wiping out a nation(and actually trying to), and then say, “yeah, here’s the terms for 10 years of peace.” Nor, do you offer peace plans you know would demographically topple Israel. And, you certainly don’t offer them, as the loser (multiple times) as a take it or leave it deal.

But, if you folks want to continue to think Nazi level propoganda from grade school, to adulthood, and into the mosques, allows for a reasonable level of confidence that “hey, these people do want peace with us,…”[/quote]

I agree that there’s no end in sight to the problem. What I find outrageous, is your “move along” attitude. People are dying violently on a daily basis. So it’s far from a non-issue.

Palestinians are not only “the loser (multiple times)”, but they also have got nothing to lose. If I was in their place, I’d rather die a dignified death than suffer the humiliation and conditions imposed by Israel. It may not be the most rational or clever thing to do, but I highly suspect that such matters have little relevance when brutalized, packed like sardines, etc. Israel realizes that. In fact, the landslide victory of Hamas in the elections was a clear sign that they’ve got absolutely nothing to lose.

And what do you mean by “you folks”?

133

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Yipee! A TEMPORARY TRUCE if you retreat to borders that will allow us to rocket you even more effictively in the future![/quote]

This is the crucial point.

There can be no negotiations without some kind of truce. But Israel has never engaged in one in good faith. In Tel Aviv, a truce is seen an opportunity for the Palestinian resistance to regroup and rearm. Which it obviously won’t allow.

Catch-22!

134

[quote]Sloth wrote:

Then the Palestinians will continue to see their youth filled to the brim with holy jihad and anti-Jew hatred. Which means this will go on forever. Nothing to see here, move along.[/quote]

Contrary to popular belief, the Palestinians are human beings. So, when they are treated like poop, and have been treated this way for generations, I’m not sure how you expect them to perceive their neighbors.

It’s quite logical for them to hate their Jewish neighbors, considering the situation they (Palestinians) are in.

Dustin

135

[quote]will to power wrote:
…
will to power wrote:
So kind of them to reduce their invasion of our countries.

Sloth wrote:
“Our” countries?

I am Lebanese.[/quote]

Are you invading Australia?

136

[quote]will to power wrote:

I am Lebanese.[/quote]

I knew you had an agenda, as you previous posts were more an emotional rant devoid of facts. Do you agree that Israel should be wiped off the map? Further, do you too think of Jews as “apes and pigs”?

Obviously, we can’t verify, but it would be nice if you answered honestly.

137

[quote]Guerrero wrote:
I’m leaning towards Hamas if noone knows as far as what team I’m rooting for.

BUT, does anyone think about this.

Hamas might want this 10 year truce and will honor it, just because in 10 years they will probably be able to arm and equip themselves to a point where it’s not David vs Goliath anymore.

They would be able to reach some sort of real military capability, probably in addition to terror tactics to ensure their survival.

As of right now, Israel’s power could whipe out any and all organized Palestinian resistance on the ground.[/quote]

Hamas has violated every truce and treaty, why in the fuck would anybody trust them? You’d have to be titanically stupid to accept there word for it. They’d have to disarm and verify, which just ain’t gonna happen.

138

[quote]will to power wrote:
Guerrero wrote:
I’m leaning towards Hamas if noone knows as far as what team I’m rooting for.

BUT, does anyone think about this.

Hamas might want this 10 year truce and will honor it, just because in 10 years they will probably be able to arm and equip themselves to a point where it’s not David vs Goliath anymore.

They would be able to reach some sort of real military capability, probably in addition to terror tactics to ensure their survival.

As of right now, Israel’s power could whipe out any and all organized Palestinian resistance on the ground.

10 years is also long enough for the population to not want to go back to war, and long enough for 2 or 3 elections given that there is no state of emergency.[/quote]

Do they want war right now? You’d think the horrors of war would be enough. Or have they been so intrinsically programed to hate Israeli’s that being at war is preferable as long as there are jewish causualties? That’s what it looks like to me, because they will never, ever get what they want. Israel is staying put.

139

[quote]Dustin wrote:
Sloth wrote:
It won’t last 10 years. The “non hamas affiliated independent” martyrs will be active. And you don’t make an offer as the weaker power of “if you hand us a victory, maybe in 10 years we’ll actually recognize that you have a right to even exist on the face of Allah’s earth.”

You paint this picture, yet the entire opposite is true. Hamas certainly has its own propaganda, but who is actually making it difficult for the other to survive?

It is the Palestinians that live in squalor. It’s the Israelis who have the prime (farm) land, access to water and other resources. It is innocent Palestinian civilians who are often targeted as terrorists and killed by the Israeli military. Palestinians can’t even attempt to conduct a normal life because they have to go to numerous checkpoints just to travel from one place to another. I won’t even bother to go into detail about how the world’s only Superpower is arming the Israelis to the teeth with weaponry.

Dustin[/quote]

And why do you think that is? Starting with Arafat and probably before, the palistinians have been suicide bombing, launching rockets and visiting various acts of terror on the Israeli people. Do you think, that maybe for a moment, if they did not behave that way there wouldn’t be so much misery in the territories?

Please reference a single time where the Israeli military, or Israelis in general, willfully, knowingly and deliberately targeted palistinian civilians?
Yes, Israel has hurt civilians, but those civilians weren’t the target.

140

[quote]pat wrote:
will to power wrote:

I am Lebanese.

I knew you had an agenda, as you previous posts were more an emotional rant devoid of facts. Do you agree that Israel should be wiped off the map? Further, do you too think of Jews as “apes and pigs”?

Obviously, we can’t verify, but it would be nice if you answered honestly.[/quote]

Moron!