[quote]Chushin wrote:
lixy wrote:
Here’s an organization of ex-Israeli soldiers denouncing the horrors of the occupation and Israel’s state terrorism.
How do Americans brush this off?
How do Muslims commit terrorism?[/quote]
Pat already answered my question. They’re apparently idiots.
I was actually looking for someone to say that “they hate their freedoms”, but I’ll settle for Pat’s answer.
[quote]lixy wrote:
Chushin wrote:
lixy wrote:
Here’s an organization of ex-Israeli soldiers denouncing the horrors of the occupation and Israel’s state terrorism.
How do Americans brush this off?
How do Muslims commit terrorism?
Pat already answered my question. They’re apparently idiots.
I was actually looking for someone to say that “they hate their freedoms”, but I’ll settle for Pat’s answer.[/quote]
I did not say that. I said this:
[i]"I too denounce any brutality by the Israelis on the people of the occupied territories.
So does this make it ok for the palistinians to shoot rockets in to Israel, suicide bomb, take hostage, etc. There is no shortage of blood on hands in both sides of the conflict, but the palestinian terrorists have more than anybody. And that is some thing they take pride in.[/i]
The idiots are the ones that think that talking with hamas will accomplish something.
[quote]pat wrote:
lixy wrote:
Chushin wrote:
lixy wrote:
Here’s an organization of ex-Israeli soldiers denouncing the horrors of the occupation and Israel’s state terrorism.
How do Americans brush this off?
How do Muslims commit terrorism?
Pat already answered my question. They’re apparently idiots.
I was actually looking for someone to say that “they hate their freedoms”, but I’ll settle for Pat’s answer.
I did not say that. I said this:
[i]"I too denounce any brutality by the Israelis on the people of the occupied territories.
So does this make it ok for the palistinians to shoot rockets in to Israel, suicide bomb, take hostage, etc. There is no shortage of blood on hands in both sides of the conflict, but the palestinian terrorists have more than anybody. And that is some thing they take pride in.[/i]
The idiots are the ones that think that talking with hamas will accomplish something.[/quote]
You wrote, and I quote “So? They are idiots too” when referring to a Jewish peace group. And shovrimshtika is just that, with a focus on the military and acts of state terrorism.
And just so that we’re on the same wavelength, when did you E-V-E-R “denounce any brutality by the Israelis on the people of the occupied territories”?
I distinctly remember some very racist comments of yours in the “Go, Israel! Go!” thread (which I’ll remind you was cheering at Israel killing people indiscriminately). You wrote: [i]“Anybody who’d elect hamas, has got to be dense. A collective I.Q. of around 80? Or am I aiming to high?”[i]. And you added: “Israel has put up with enough shit…”.
You’ll therefore have to forgive me if I don’t take your word for it. So please refer to ANY post you made (in the 5 and 1/2 years you have been on the site) where you actually “denounce any brutality by the Israelis”. I mean, who the fsck calls a bunch of Israelis dedicated to peace “idiots” when he/she is in the US, and said Israelis are actually living in that hell-hole of a region and dealing with the shit on a daily basis?
This is clearly a case of being more royalist than the king. You should come down from your cloud and realize that maybe, just maybe, Israelis are better informed than you when it comes to what’s going on over there.
[quote]lixy wrote:
You wrote, and I quote “So? They are idiots too” when referring to a Jewish peace group. And shovrimshtika is just that, with a focus on the military and acts of state terrorism.
[/quote]
Yup, they are.
I am never have have never wanted, desired, or cheered the death of any innocent people, ever. You cannot find a post of mine that says otherwise.
What are you Al Sharpton now? Israel was not killing people indiscriminately, the pailistinians do all the time, but Israel was going after hamas, which I support. I hate that there are innocent victims but since hamas hides behind them, it’s sometimes hard to avoid. I know you too, would like to see the destruction of Israel, but I support Israeli efforts to defend themselves. If they were firing rockets in to a croud or spraying bullets indiscriminately I would have a huge problem with that. Israel didn’t do that, they were targeting hamas, but you know who does do that? Hamas.
And yes I think the palistinians are morons. They rather elect people who make war and will bring the wrath of Israel down upon the territories rather than people who would bring them food and prosperity. The elect people who seek weapons subsidies rather than medicine, clothing, etc.
I don’t give a shit if you take my word for it or not. Anybody who thinks they can negotiate with somebody who doesn’t even regard your right to exist is an idiot, period.
[quote]
This is clearly a case of being more royalist than the king. You should come down from your cloud and realize that maybe, just maybe, Israelis are better informed than you when it comes to what’s going on over there.[/quote]
Yes, and I am quite sure they sick of being indiscriminately targeted by the likes of hamas.
Boy that meeting worked! Next time Carter visits the area I recommend he make it permenant. I suggest he make his home in Gaza and liberate the U.S. of his stupidity.
[quote]pat wrote:
Boy that meeting worked! Next time Carter visits the area I recommend he make it permenant. I suggest he make his home in Gaza and liberate the U.S. of his stupidity.[/quote]
Mr Carter had said Hamas was prepared to accept the right of Israel to “live as a neighbour next door in peace”.
…
[Khaled Meshaal] added that this did not mean recognising Israel, but he said: “We have offered a truce if Israel withdraws to the 1967 borders, a truce of 10 years as an alternative to recognition.”
Israel doesn’t recognize the Hamas government either, so what’s the big deal? They are offering peace, isn’t that more important than recognition?
They already withdrew from Lebanon, and Gaza and in return are rained upon with rocketfire. What makes anyone think that Hamas can be trusted not to continue this action if Israel withdraws once again?
[quote]will to power wrote:
pat wrote:
Boy that meeting worked! Next time Carter visits the area I recommend he make it permenant. I suggest he make his home in Gaza and liberate the U.S. of his stupidity.
Mr Carter had said Hamas was prepared to accept the right of Israel to “live as a neighbor next door in peace”.
…
[Khaled Meshaal] added that this did not mean recognizing Israel, but he said: “We have offered a truce if Israel withdraws to the 1967 borders, a truce of 10 years as an alternative to recognition.”
Israel doesn’t recognize the Hamas government either, so what’s the big deal? They are offering peace, isn’t that more important than recognition? [/quote]
Yes, yes it is. What makes it complicated is that the common American’s opinion is that hegemony is more important than symbiosis.
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
They already withdrew from Lebanon, and Gaza and in return are rained upon with rocketfire. What makes anyone think that Hamas can be trusted not to continue this action if Israel withdraws once again?[/quote]
This is very important and usually ignored by those that blame Israel.
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
They already withdrew from Lebanon, and Gaza and in return are rained upon with rocketfire. What makes anyone think that Hamas can be trusted not to continue this action if Israel withdraws once again?[/quote]
Precisely. If they stay they are attacked. If they leave they are attacked more. Are we to trust people who openly say that women and children are as much enemy combatants as the military and hence are as much a target as the Israeli government?
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
They already withdrew from Lebanon, and Gaza and in return are rained upon with rocketfire. What makes anyone think that Hamas can be trusted not to continue this action if Israel withdraws once again?[/quote]
So kind of them to reduce their invasion of our countries. They did not stop hostilities with either side however [temporary truces existed at points with the Palestinian, but both sides have broken those].
I would ask you, what makes you think Israel can be trusted? They’ve broken truces with Palestine in the past, massacred civilians and have a long list of human rights abuses. Maybe because… there’s always going to be trust issues when you’ve been at war for 60 years and if you actually want peace you are just going to have to trust the other side. Was Russia’s track record unblemished when you made peace?
[quote]pat wrote:
Precisely. If they stay they are attacked. If they leave they are attacked more. Are we to trust people who openly say that women and children are as much enemy combatants as the military and hence are as much a target as the Israeli government?
[/quote]
At what point in targeting civilians as part of the enemy does a government lose any trust forever? Kidnappings? Firing katyusha rockets at enemy towns? Assassinating elected foreign officials? Cluster bombing the civilian population? Carpet bombing a civilian city? Dropping multiple nuclear weapons on civilian cities? Or is just because they are upfront about their murderous intent?
Part of the offer is that they accept the right to exist in peace, even if they don’t officially recognize the government. If what they are saying is true, then it would mean they are willing to give up the stance you are complaining about and that this is a huge turning point in their policy. Yeah, they might be lying, but what is there to lose if they are, compared to what there is to gain?
But fuck it no, never mind that a peace offer from Hamas is the only way to get peace with Gaza right now, it should be ignored because hey, they may be lying or something. This conflict should just continue forever right? Or until too many of them are dead for it to matter.
Yes, peace. Peace, with a people who’ve indoctrinated entire generations of their youth to aim for the destruction of Israel as a whole. And, let’s not forget the degradation of Jewish persons into apes and pigs. All this through their children’s textbooks, parades, and even children’s tv programs. Hamas and their supporters are the inheritors of the Nazi proproganda machine. I’ve done so before, but I’ll link reports on Palestinian textbooks and Children’s programming again, if need be.
A TRUCE for 10 years if Israel gives them what they want. A TEMPORARY truce…If Israel retreats to 67’s borders? Laughable? Um, where’s the permanent peace if Israel did so? See, truces actually mean grace periods for digging tunnels, trenches, and beefing up rocket teams and equipment. Only a temporary truce, if Israel runs off…hah!
[quote]will to power wrote:
So kind of them to reduce their invasion of our countries. [/quote]
“Our” countries?
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Yes, peace. Peace, with a people who’ve indoctrinated entire generations of their youth to aim for the destruction of Israel as a whole. And, let’s not forget the degradation of Jewish persons into apes and pigs. All this through their children’s textbooks, parades, and even children’s tv programs. Hamas and their supporters are the inheritors of the Nazi proproganda machine. I’ve done so before, but I’ll link reports on Palestinian textbooks and Children’s programming again, if need be.
[/quote]
Because countries using racist propaganda against long time enemies is so rare. Not like your country did it, or Australia, or the Chinese, etc etc yet all those conflicts managed peace.
[quote]
A TRUCE for 10 years if Israel gives them what they want. A TEMPORARY truce…If Israel retreats to 67’s borders? Laughable? Um, where’s the permanent peace if Israel did so? See, truces actually mean grace periods for digging tunnels, trenches, and beefing up rocket teams and equipment. Only a temporary truce, if Israel runs off…hah![/quote]
It’s a start.
I am Lebanese.
[quote]will to power wrote:
Because countries using racist propaganda against long time enemies is so rare. Not like your country did it, or Australia, or the Chinese, etc etc yet all those conflicts managed peace.
[/quote]
No. This isn’t racist. This is Allah’s will. This, is a holy war that MUST continue. Of course, some temporary truces are acceptable. You need ample time to restock your rocket launchers. I mean, the hour of resurrection won’t take place until the Jew is killed and fought, after all. When the rock and the tree will betray the Jews hiding behind them. A least, that’s what the children are taught.
[quote]Sloth:
A TRUCE for 10 years if Israel gives them what they want. A TEMPORARY truce…If Israel retreats to 67’s borders? Laughable? Um, where’s the permanent peace if Israel did so? See, truces actually mean grace periods for digging tunnels, trenches, and beefing up rocket teams and equipment. Only a temporary truce, if Israel runs off…hah!
Will:
It’s a start.
[/quote]
Right. It’s a start that Israel is to retreat to '67’s border in exchange for a temporary truce with folks who believe, and teach their children, that it is divinely mandated to destroy Israel, and fight the Jew until the Hour of Ressurection.
[quote]
Sloth wrote:
“Our” countries?
I am Lebanese.[/quote]
Ah, ok. I assumed you were an Australian citizen.
Edit: And please, don’t tell me this isn’t what Islam teaches. I’m not the guy you need to be worried about convincing. You need to tell it to muslims clerics preaching to Palestinians. And, to those various Palestinian factions that produce textbooks, videos, and children’s tv programming saying such things.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
will to power wrote:
Because countries using racist propaganda against long time enemies is so rare. Not like your country did it, or Australia, or the Chinese, etc etc yet all those conflicts managed peace.
No. This isn’t racist. This is Allah’s will. This, is a holy war that MUST continue. Of course, some temporary truces are acceptable. You need ample time to restock your rocket launchers. I mean, the hour of resurrection won’t take place until the Jew is killed and fought, after all. When the rock and the tree will betray the Jews hiding behind them. A least, that’s what the children are taught.
[/quote]
Honestly, it all looks like the same racist propaganda to me.
So are you suggesting that Israel reject any and all peace offers no matter what, and continue the war forever or until the Palestinians are no more?
[quote]
Sloth wrote:
“Our” countries?
I am Lebanese.
Ah, ok. I assumed you were an Australian citizen.[/quote]
I am also an Australian citizen.
I’m leaning towards Hamas if noone knows as far as what team I’m rooting for.
BUT, does anyone think about this.
Hamas might want this 10 year truce and will honor it, just because in 10 years they will probably be able to arm and equip themselves to a point where it’s not David vs Goliath anymore.
They would be able to reach some sort of real military capability, probably in addition to terror tactics to ensure their survival.
As of right now, Israel’s power could whipe out any and all organized Palestinian resistance on the ground.