Carry On Bulking?

Bigger Stronger Leaner Competitive Bodybuilding
41

[quote]Getting Closer wrote:
6-10 sets! Really? I’m sure I read a thread about ramping where Professor X said that he just does 3 sets also when Ronnie Coleman does bench he does 5 sets and thats with working up to 500lbs! Today when I did chest for bench press I ramped up to 102.5kg for 5 reps by doing-

20 kg for 20
60 kg for 10
60 kg for 12
90 kg for 5
102.5 kg for 5

I thought that would be enough?
I should probably say also that for most exercises I am ramping up to a 10 rep max although on Deadlift, Bench press, Squats and CGBP arms day I am ramping up to a 5-7 rep max.[/quote]

The example you gave is very little volume and would hardly stimulate anything in most individuals. Also, the last set should be the hardest (so usually, you’re weight will be the largest and the reps will be the highest…kind of like the reverse of your example). In your example, you are wasting energy on the sets before the 5 rep ranges. You are doing high volume and needlessly “pumping” on the weights that don’t matter (the weights below 70% 1RM).

Prof x and Coleman probably aren’t including the sets before those work sets.

Here’s an example of how your ramping for bench press could look like (using smaller steps - i.e. ~5% 1RM increases):

20kg - 20
60kg - 10
70kg - 3
80kg - 3
85kg - 3 (work set)
90kg - 3 (work set)
95kg - 3 (work set)
100kg - 3 (work set)
105kg - 3 (work set)
110kg - 3 (work set)

^^^Notice, that because you ramp up using lower reps, and smaller jumps in weight, you’ll have more “energy”, and nervous system “preparation” to hit a bigger max at the end. Also, if you do these reps quickly (burst up on the positive), you’ll better prepare your nervous system and create more “stimulation” even at the lower weights. This system of ramping (similar to CT’s perfect rep scheme) is great for building up strength, but I find I need to do 1 or 2 drop sets of higher reps at the end to stimulate better hypertrophy. For example, you may want to drop the last ramp set by 15kg (15-20% less), and rep out to the max:

95kg - 9 (example max you could do)

You have to try it all to see what I mean :slight_smile:

Or, you could ramp up in 8 reps. That would look something like this:

20kg - 20
60kg - 10
70kg - 8 (work set)
80kg - 8 (work set)
90kg - 8 (work set)
100kg - 8 (work set)

No need to do a drop set at the end of these types of ramping.
Because the reps are higher, you wouldn’t need as low jumps in weight to prepare the system. If you wanted to, you could alternate between the two styles of ramping, like every 3 weeks or so.

42

Forgot to add, if you do this ramping correctly, and get in enough volume/intensity, you’ll need very little else to further fatigue the chest. This is probably why you never felt that doing more than one muscle group per workout was going to do much (because in order to feel worked enough at the current way of doing things, you had to do many exercises…and this took up too much time/energy which would not allow many other muscle groups to be worked in the same session).

The solution:

Increase the exercise volume (like in the ramping example I gave above), and make the last set the best effort (work up to a truer max…i.e. get some real intensity in there). If you do this, you may only need one or two other exercises to further fatigue the chest. And the other exercise may only be something from a different angle (like to stimulate the upper chest).

43

I am ramping up to my heaviest weight although the reps are decreased. What I have seen Ronnie Coleman do is-

135lbs x 20
225lbs x 15
315lbs x 10
405lbs x 8
495lbs x 5

Which is 5 sets although you have said that this is not enough to stimulate anything so why does he use the same kind of ramp as me but at a much higher weight?

Where you said that I am just pumping out reps, I know that those reps won’t really cause any growth but they are warming me up and getting me ready for my max set.

44

I’m not trying to argue with you and am thankful for your advice but I just want to understand it.

Thought I should also mention that I have really bad DOMS in my chest today from my chest workout yesterday which kind of answers my question of will ramping up to just one all out set be enough.

45

[quote]Getting Closer wrote:
I am ramping up to my heaviest weight although the reps are decreased. What I have seen Ronnie Coleman do is-

135lbs x 20
225lbs x 15
315lbs x 10
405lbs x 8
495lbs x 5

Which is 5 sets although you have said that this is not enough to stimulate anything so why does he use the same kind of ramp as me but at a much higher weight?

Where you said that I am just pumping out reps, I know that those reps won’t really cause any growth but they are warming me up and getting me ready for my max set.[/quote]

You are not Ronnie Coleman are you? lol

The stronger you are, the longer the recovery will be for the same amount of volume…or, the less volume would be required to cause growth, if the frequency is the same (since the intensity makes up for it). How long do you think that a person would have to wait for recovery when they used to lift 60kg, compared to when they’re now able to lift 140kg and using the same volume? Considering that now the person has more muscle to recover?

It does surprise me that you had bad DOMS from that, I’d guess that it was mainly from other higher rep exercises for chest (i.e. the total volume including other exercises) rather than benching alone…unless maybe this routine is still pretty new to you?

Having said that though, if that works for you, then fair enough. Everyone has to figure out the best way for themselves personally.

Note about warmups: Not saying not to warm up, but if you are ramping in smaller jumps, there’s little need to do really high rep warmups, and it better prepares you to lift more at the end.

46

Havnt you seen my pics? I could easily be mistaken for him lol

Ok I see what your saying now so I’ll see how it goes.

Chest is still tight as hell today and yes this is the first time I have done this program although it might be because I changed push ups with dumbbell flyes which I havnt done before.

Thanks

47

Ahh I’d go crazy ramping up that many sets in pairs of 3’s!!!

48

[quote]rasturai wrote:
Ahh I’d go crazy ramping up that many sets in pairs of 3’s!!!
[/quote]

LOL, that’s why I said you’ve got to try it to believe it.

When it comes to low reps, I can always hit a higher max when I increase load by around 5% rather than 10%. A good set should not feel much different from the preceding one.

49

[quote]Getting Closer wrote:
Havnt you seen my pics? I could easily be mistaken for him lol

Ok I see what your saying now so I’ll see how it goes.

Chest is still tight as hell today and yes this is the first time I have done this program although it might be because I changed push ups with dumbbell flyes which I havnt done before.

Thanks[/quote]

It’s up to you. If you still get results from the volume that you are doing, there’s no sense in changing anything :slight_smile:

If you do what I’ve suggested, I’d rather just do the compound movements and judge your results (find the right frequency for constant strength gains), then where-ever necessary, add in more volume/exercises to get a better hypertrophy response and balance. Keep in mind that, when volume / intensity increases, so does calorie requirements…big time!

That’s why, if you do what I suggested, you’ll probably get leaner on the current calorie intake (may be no need to do cardio). Then, maybe after 2-3 months, when you want to, you can eat more to go forward with your bulk.

50

[quote]its_just_me wrote:

[quote]rasturai wrote:
Ahh I’d go crazy ramping up that many sets in pairs of 3’s!!!
[/quote]

LOL, that’s why I said you’ve got to try it to believe it.

When it comes to low reps, I can always hit a higher max when I increase load by around 5% rather than 10%. A good set should not feel much different from the preceding one.[/quote]

I have tried it, and it didn’t make a difference.

@Getting Closer, its_just_me means well but the ramping example you gave is fine imo. It’s what I do. He is right about not fatiguing yourself on the warmup sets, but he is not right in telling you that you WILL be fatigued ramping with particular weights/reps like that as there is no way he could know that… just do what feels right.

51

Alright thanks. So now I’m fine with ramping on big lifts but yesterday I trained shoulders and just wasn’t sure what to do with exercises like lateral raises as I’m using such light weight that there is not really much to ramp up to, so what would be a good example ramp set for an exercise like lateral raises?

52

[quote]babaganoosh wrote:
…but he is not right in telling you that you WILL be fatigued ramping with particular weights/reps like that as there is no way he could know that… just do what feels right.[/quote]

Which is why I said keep at it if it works for him :slight_smile:

I’m just going by my own personal experience…I find that if I do enough on the compound (small jumps and high intensity), there’s less need to do much else on the other exercises (it’s just a case of “finishing off”, or “filling the gaps” so to speak).

One of the more important issues is what I mentioned earlier about frequency. Most find that at the earlier stages of lifting, they can train most muscle groups twice every 6 days or so (depending on how much fatigue they cause).

53

[quote]Getting Closer wrote:
Alright thanks. So now I’m fine with ramping on big lifts but yesterday I trained shoulders and just wasn’t sure what to do with exercises like lateral raises as I’m using such light weight that there is not really much to ramp up to, so what would be a good example ramp set for an exercise like lateral raises?[/quote]

Just do what you feel is necessary to get the best out of the movement, whilst using the heaviest weight possible. I personally do one or two lighter sets to get a feel for the movement.

54

[quote]its_just_me wrote:

[quote]babaganoosh wrote:
…but he is not right in telling you that you WILL be fatigued ramping with particular weights/reps like that as there is no way he could know that… just do what feels right.[/quote]

Which is why I said keep at it if it works for him :slight_smile:

I’m just going by my own personal experience…I find that if I do enough on the compound (small jumps and high intensity), there’s less need to do much else on the other exercises (it’s just a case of “finishing off”, or “filling the gaps” so to speak).

One of the more important issues is what I mentioned earlier about frequency. Most find that at the earlier stages of lifting, they can train most muscle groups twice every 6 days or so (depending on how much fatigue they cause).[/quote]

Well sure he can try it, but there was nothing wrong with what he outlined - which is the vibe I picked up from your posts; maybe I just misunderstood/misread/whatever.

That may be the case, but so far I’ve trained on mostly 5 and 6 day splits and made good progress, and I personally prefer it because I feel I am giving enough attention to each muscle group… and I like training, so only going to the gym only 3 days a week on some full body or push/pull/whatever routine would drive me crazy (I don’t think that’s what you were suggesting, but just saying).

55

[quote]Getting Closer wrote:
Alright thanks. So now I’m fine with ramping on big lifts but yesterday I trained shoulders and just wasn’t sure what to do with exercises like lateral raises as I’m using such light weight that there is not really much to ramp up to, so what would be a good example ramp set for an exercise like lateral raises?[/quote]

If you’ve already ramped on your main compound movement for shoulders (e.g. seated press), then you don’t need to worry too much about ramping by much on accessory exercises like lateral raises. Do higher reps (like 8-12…or whatever you grow best off) and maybe you’ll only need 2 or 3 sets (once again, this is personal). This still allows enough increase on each set. You can start off not too far off your max rep set on an accessory movement (especially since the reps are highish).

Just keep in mind that the higher the reps, the more focussed you’ll have to be to keep that intensity high. It’s no use giving up 3-4 reps short of what you could manage (within reasonable form).

56

[quote]babaganoosh wrote:

[quote]its_just_me wrote:

[quote]babaganoosh wrote:
…but he is not right in telling you that you WILL be fatigued ramping with particular weights/reps like that as there is no way he could know that… just do what feels right.[/quote]

Which is why I said keep at it if it works for him :slight_smile:

I’m just going by my own personal experience…I find that if I do enough on the compound (small jumps and high intensity), there’s less need to do much else on the other exercises (it’s just a case of “finishing off”, or “filling the gaps” so to speak).

One of the more important issues is what I mentioned earlier about frequency. Most find that at the earlier stages of lifting, they can train most muscle groups twice every 6 days or so (depending on how much fatigue they cause).[/quote]

Well sure he can try it, but there was nothing wrong with what he outlined - which is the vibe I picked up from your posts; maybe I just misunderstood/misread/whatever.

That may be the case, but so far I’ve trained on mostly 5 and 6 day splits and made good progress, and I personally prefer it because I feel I am giving enough attention to each muscle group… and I like training, so only going to the gym only 3 days a week on some full body or push/pull/whatever routine would drive me crazy (I don’t think that’s what you were suggesting, but just saying).

[/quote]

It would be wrong for me to pick “faults” with someone’s program if they’d “evolved” it over the years and it works best for them, but this doesn’t seem to be the case here. The OP said that he seems to be getting fatter than he’d like/can justify muscle for, so apart from diet, I suggested ways of modifying his frequency/volume/intensity to sort this problem out. One should be able to bulk for some time before having to worry about “excessive” fat gains. I have no problem with differences in training frequency, if it seems to be working ok. But if we can make it work great, that’s even better. Someone who hasn’t had much chance of experimenting can be greatly helped by those who have.

As regards loving the gym, so do I. But I’m not just doing it for enjoyment, I’m doing what works best for me and for the satisfaction of progress. There is no max limit of days for the 3 way splits that I suggested, you could do it 6 days a week, or “just” 4, it’s up to the individual and their recovery.

57

Ok so I could do something like this-

10kg x 15
10kg x 15
18kg x 12

58

[quote]Getting Closer wrote:
Ok so I could do something like this-

10kg x 15
10kg x 15
18kg x 12[/quote]

The compound movement leaves room for some error (the target muscle may not be fully worked), and the isolation movement finishes it off…so, as long as you feel it well in the target muscle while your doing that, then it’s all good.

Personally, I rarely go above 10 reps with any exercise (except for lower body), but that’s just me.

59

I wouldnt usually go above 10 reps on work sets but I feel I need to for lateral raise.

60

[quote]Getting Closer wrote:
I wouldnt usually go above 10 reps on work sets but I feel I need to for lateral raise.[/quote]

Yeah I always stay between 10-15 reps usually…like for instance yesterday I did seated shoulder pin presses…followed by 2 (sometimes I do 3 depending on if I deem it necessary) sets of machine lateral raises 90X10 and then 70X13 both hitting complete utter failure. After pressing your shoulders should be nicely warmed up. Just hit em hard for 2-3 heavy sets for high reps. Sometimes you adjust to how you feel that day though.