Atp used an extreme example to make his point. NO ONE on here is an endurance athlete of any kind. Yet he chooses to use them as examples.
I’ve yet to see a centenarian interviewed ( or a blue zoner) credit dedicated cardio sessions for their longevity, plenty of activity, yes, cardio, no.
I merely used an extreme example to counter his point. Live by the sword…an all that…
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I didn’t see the extreme cardio examples.
When I think of CV training, I myself don’t think of those runner nuts that over-do things like that. Just good old CV training, the way it’s recommended at something like 60% of adjusted max HR. Same level we are in doing 30 minutes of yard work, going for a brisk walk, etc. I think maybe we think of ‘cardio’ differently? I don’t define it as someone running for an hour with a max HR, more the way the recommended CV stuff is defined as just moving for a time period with an HR at a safe percentage of the age based max. Someone my age might only need to have their HR at 105-110 for 20+ minutes, and that’s considered cardio.
Same with weight lifting, … example are those HIT nuts that think pushing a set till their HR is 180+ and are puking is the way to gain size lol. Both those extreme groups are whacked lol
Being truthful is not a high priority for HiTers, as another HiT myth gets busted.
Dr. Darden once promoted after evening meals to enhance fat loss. Of course, even this is now considered extreme by the current mythology called HiT!
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This for me was the clincher with actiivty and why it’s a very powerful adjunct to diet. No diet in the world by itself can provide the health benefits of daily activity .
and…
The hearts and aortae of 50 Masai men were collected at autopsy. These pastoral people are exceptionally active and fit and they consume diets of milk and meat. The intake of animal fat exceeds that of American men. Measurements of the aorta showed extensive atherosclerosis with lipid infiltration and fibrous changes but very few complicated lesions. The coronary arteries showed intimal thickening by atherosclerosis which equaled that of old U.S. men. The Masai vessels enlarge with age to more than compensate for this disease. It is speculated that the Masai are protected from their atherosclerosis by physical fitness which causes their coronary vessels to be capacious.
ATHEROSCLEROSIS IN THE MASAI1 | American Journal of Epidemiology | Oxford Academic (oup.com)
Neither did I!
If not pointed out specifically, this is another lack of truthfulness exhibited by a troll disguised as a HiTer!
ADP 4 ME,
There are “HITers” who use aerobic type exercise.
As mentioned Dr.D recommends walking
Clarence Bass does HIT type training once a week and aerobic
work once a week
Dr.Ken also did aerobic work. He thought very brisk walking was easier on the joints and low back as one got older.
Mentzer did aerobic work closer to contest time. So did John Heart.
Currently Yates talks about doing intervals right before a workout. For context he is talking about doing do full body workouts doing the intervals first.
It’s the one of two you have a resentment with who don’t recommend it. We ALL get your point. It’s a hill your willing to die on. What does your aerobic workout look like?
Speaking for myself I look at it this way. I do HIT type workouts. For years it was probably enough. I did great on stress tests and all my
blood work and other vitals were fine. More importantly my Doctor
was fine with my health.
I had no trouble with shoveling snow,doing strenuous work for long period of times ect.
That was good enough and I was healthy. I had no need for running,rowing,biking,playing sports or anything like that.
I worked a full time mentally and psychically demanding job. I
did better due to HIT. I just did not have to do a lot of it.
As I got older I added walking like Dr.Ken talked to me about. 40 to 60 minutes 2-3 times a week.
In the summer we walk up an old mountain road at a brisk pace. A lot of it is up hill. Half way is 1.3 miles. We try for 28 minutes in one direction. We might walk a little more often in the summer months. Sometimes 3 days a week.
It’s something for me that is not sustainable year round. It does
not make me super healthy.
It’s hunting season now and we are not going in the woods. We probably cut back to more than half of the walking we do in the summer. It’s still enough.
I just turned 60. If I only would walk once a week and lift once a week it would still be enough for me.
I have Crohn’s and I have several flare ups a year. That’s stress and so is exercise. So I have to adjust accordingly.
For myself I still believe that doing a more of a minimalist approach
is better for MY health.
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Like I said…NO ONE on here would, unless I’m mistaken class themselves as an endurance athlete…so using endurance athletes to prove your point was “extreme”. Hence why I came back with the post showing heart complications that can arise from participating in endurance “athletic” sports. Get it now? Or does it need further explaining?
There is a whole spectrum of activity endeavours, ranging from the absolutely bed ridden, to the most fanatic of ultra endurance athletes. We all lie somewhere on that spectrum. I have not seen anyone on here state that they do one or two fifteen minute workouts per week, and then lie / sit down for the rest of the week and do nothing else. But that is what you seem to be accusing people of. You are starting to come across as being fanatical.
Also I love the way that you paint me as a HIT troll. You have no idea how I train, although I have stated a good few times now, that I perform cardio myself, and probably more than you per week. But you seem to have conveniently forgotten that, time after time, because it doesn’t fit your narrative. I’ll put my cardio regime up against yours for comparison. It wouldn’t surprise me if I’m in better cardio shape than you…go figure.
So before you go and cry that you’ve been unfairly labelled and maligned ( another tactic of yours…to go with your deflection) just remember, you’ve spent more than a couple of posts on this thread insinuating that most, if not all on here as lazy, fat *sses ( incorrectly) and myself as a troll.
Like I said…live by the sword…
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If we just get down to the actual medical/physiological facts…
- Weight training does have some of the same CV benefits as LIT, but also induces a few different adaptations. (Weight training increases arterial thickness, LIT increases internal diameter) It all comes down to the S.A.I.D. principle.
- There are a few HIT gurus that are ignorant of these facts and are misleading their sheep. We see them all over in facebook groups, totally drinking the koolaid that 1-2 super slow workouts a week provides ALL the same benefits and to the same degree as LIT CV training. Which is absolutely false. They have imaged the heart and more importantly, the arteries of various athletes, trainees and even subjects during study trials for what kind of changes occur with weight training vs LIT training. So it’s absolute seen facts.
- The idea that a couple short weight workouts can even come close to 3-5 LIT sessions a week with respect to caloric burn and CV adaptions is just ridiculous. Of course, these are also the people that think 1 SS set per week also provides ‘maximum’ muscle stimulation, so must keep that in mind too.
- The only reason I keep posting about this, is it irritates the crap out of me that these either misinformed, or out right lying ‘gurus’ are messing with people’s long term health. I wish some type of malpractice law suit was available for people screwing with others like that.
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As I was misled for years by HiT, I feel the same way that you just related. Multiple sets of heavy weights, cardio are time tested protocols leading to success. The Big 5 is also time tested to give that look - the look of - I don’t train!
But…but nw lifter isn’t a one trick pony, with a chip on the shoulder and a huge axe to grind, that trolls and disrupts as many threads that he can find with his now, long since, boring, one note message. Hence my Beetlejuice reference. You have become as objectionable as that character.
Either give your relentless quest up now (we’ve all heard it…and we have made our minds up one way or the other) or move on to pastures new ( hence the letsrun suggestion) where you may be more gratefully received.
If you don’t believe me about how boring and objectionable you have become, like I said, shall we conduct a poll?
Resistance trained athletes are in great contrast to the cardiovascular trained athlete as regards the adaptations of the heart. Compared to cardiovascular training, resistance training results in the blood vessels in and around the muscles being worked being squeezed during loading. Resistance training is characterized by marked elevations in systolic and diastolic blood pressure and a modest increase in cardiac output along with an increased heart rate. During resistance training blood pressure can rise to very high levels, especially during a leg press. The enormous increase in blood pressure ultimately leads to an increase in heart wall stress, which is the major stimulus for growth of the heart wall. The consequence is an increase in heart wall thickness, leaving less room for blood in the left ventricle.
There are compensatory mechanisms during heavy lifting (incl. valsalva maneuver) that alleviate the stress on the cardiovascular system. I do not believe that a natural lifter would have any negative issues in this regard. I would also question whether cardio is better than resistance training - all aspects accounted for (in general) - for the aging trainee.
If you overdo it - It doesn’t matter what modality of training we’re referring to. Too much of anything is too much…
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No disrespect but this was slightly straw man…
This part of the discussion revolves around cardio vs diet / calorie control and how inefficient cardio ( or any exercise) was compared to pushing your plate away from you. Not cardio vs weight training.
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You’re like a donkey on a treadmill, with a carrot suspended above its head…just too dumb to know when to quit…and too obstinate to do so, even when it’s pointed out to you.
All hail the one trick pony…
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I lift weights. I do not do cardio. I walk. I take the stairs. I surf. I swim. I bodyboard. I use a paddleboard when the waves are flat. I sit on the couch and relax.
I lift weights to do the other things better. To look good naked. To enjoy more out of my life. Doing the other things does not help me lift more weight.
Cardio is a waste. Life is too short to spend hours per week looking at your watch. If you want to sit on the couch, sit. If you like to run, run the road. Row, row rhe water. Bike, hit the road. Swim, hit the pool or the beach. Enjoy. You do not need to lift weights to enjoy a long, happy life. Nor do you need cardio to enjoy a long, happy life. Find your own trail and follow it.
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One hundred percent agree with this.
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no, you and ATP have a lot of posts above about weight training providing cardio adaptations
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I was referring to the weight loss / control aspect.