[quote]elusive wrote:
OK Lets start this off.
1st of two pics.[/quote]
LOL I love the “Ice cream sandwich” in the background. Good lord if you finish that I’ll realize bodybuilders are superior eaters (Kobayashi, Cody Chesnutt).
I can’t believe you’re able to do a ~12 hour refeed with that amount…I’d HAVE to spread it out over 24 hours.
Well, I’ve never handled 3,000+ carbs before. My best was last Thursday with 2,100 in about 16 hours. Im baking my Angel Food Cake right now, for tomorrow. =)
[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
phatkins187 wrote:
On a side note does anyone have a good link to find out the benefits of a refeed (written by Berardi or someone of that caliber)? The whole concept is still pretty new to me.
Cheat to Lose Diet by Joel Marion pretty much utilizes this concept.
Also, look up literature on Intermittent Fasting. I think the surge in IGF-1 (?) is due to the fasting immediately prior to the “refeed.”
The Anabolic Diet also advocates a refeed.
Guys,
I am thinking about going low-carb and low-cal for 2 WEEKS straight before my first refeed, and then refeed every 5-7 days thereafter. Good idea?
I have noticed with my own body that it takes roughly 2 weeks for a shift in metabolism given consistent physical activity and eating habits.
I am thinking that at the end of two weeks low-carb and low cal, my metabolism will begin to downregulate (to adjust for the lower food intake), and with a refeed around day 12 or 14, I can hold that off from happening. Plus, I should be super depleted. I am NOT trying to become “fat adapted.”
So, would there be much of a difference between waiting 2 weeks instead of 1 ?
I’d be working out 3-4 days a week.
I look at this as similar to how a battery recharges; you’re supposed to discharge fully and recharge fully on a regular basis to keep the battery life optimal (optimal charge capacity).[/quote]
Thanks for the ideas bro. I’ve read a bit of Lyle’s stuff today and at least determined that I’m a type I dieter and need a 12 hour refeed every week. I will probably tweak it a bit and only do a junky refeed every other week but stick to the more fibrous carbs typically. Lyle’s ideas are pretty different than Skip’s where it’s tons of glucose, starchy, and high GI carbs.
I guess you’re answer is in terms of how much you want to lose. I started off on the V-Diet which meant 4 very strict <1,800 kcal/day weeks. I also started at 17 or 18% BF (calipers). 12-14 days is obviously the same as the AD induction period but that’s for proper fat adaptation. I don’t think you need to go that long if you only cut calories and time your carbs properly (and are starting off in fairly good shape/lower BF).
It sounds like you want to do some low fat/moderate protein and carbs days to kick start some fat loss and you should definitely see that if you continue with your current workouts and PWO nutrition. To be depleted you can maybe cut your PWO carbs in half?
This thread kicks so much ass.
Elusive- you are quite a bit leaner than me which justifies the crazy refeed. If I get lean enough I will have to try and beat your best total. lol.
Dr Clay:Nice to see you on the thread.
A subject i like to see get covered, if you read Shelby articles a low carb day is never a zero carbs day, its about 0.5/per pound of bodyweight. Some authors have carbs at zero.Just touch the subject!
Elusive: Your obviously doing something right!looking good! You also gave me a few idea for my next high carbs day.
Phatkins187: Thanks for all the question you ,you saved me sometimes!
By the way im still following my diet as per Shelby article,started last week seriously with only low and moderate day, friday or saturday will be my first high carbs days!
My Angel Food Cake just came out of the oven. Its not the prettiest looking cake around, but I won’t be able to taste the difference. I’m waiting for it to cool off before I frost this bad boy.
[quote]elusive wrote:
I seem to cycle my weekly calories. I eat about 10cals x BW on most training days and 8cal x BW on shoulder days and off days. Well, thats what I’ve been doing for the last 2-3 weeks or so.
I guess I would say I am naturally “leaner”. I was always 12-13% before I got into lifting, not focusing at all on eating. However, I did come to realize that I can lose fat pretty quickly or at least intially. I also handle carbs fairly well. I definitly don’t know how I’m going to handle the above, but we’ll find out! [/quote]
Hey bud, your calories seem extremely low especially in comparison with your refeeds!
How often and what are you usually eating on a training/off day? Any reason your calories are that low? I’m having trouble with ~2300 kcal at 183 lbs. which is below maintenance.
I’ve been eating this low the last 2-3 weeks because of the enormous size of my refeeds. I started taking my calories down to feel deserving of the refeed. Also, I’m nearing the end of my cut and would like to start kicking things up to finish up strong. I eat about 4-5 meals daily. Oatmeal and brown rice are my only major carb sources with trace carbs coming from my Whey and Natty peanut butter.
For about 4-5 weeks I was consuming 3,200 cals with 400 carbs a day and was making steady progress. I’ve obviously tapered down since then.
Phatkins:
Regarding calories, i log all my food/daily on thedailyplate.com.
Following Shelby Macro and not to worried about calories, but for the fun of it on my low carbs im about 2000-2400cal.
This is really below maintenance since im 6f and 194 , well seems im now 192as of today.Lost 2 pounds in the last 10days.
Thanks guys. I’m going to adjust my calories down slightly to 10*BW (~1800 kcal) and add a refeed on Sundays for the next 4 weeks. I’ll reassess from there.
Ever since I started using fitday.com I’ve realized how easy it is to get to your daily allotment. I’ve been eating 6-7 times a day so I’m going to cut that down to 4 on non-training days and 5 on training (PWO shake).
On another note, what’s a proper number of fish oil caps (1,000 mg) per day if I should be watching fat intake?
[quote]elusive wrote:
Low Fat Chocolate Sorbet
Low Fat Ben & Jerry’s Half-Baked ice cream**
Fat-Free Chocolate Fudge ice cream
Fat-Free Chocolate ice cream
Fat-Free Vanilla ice cream
Fat-Free Ruffles Potato Chips
Angel Food Cake Mix
Chocolate Frosting*
Maple Syrup*
Chocolate Syrup*
Chocolate Sprinkles*
Bagels
Fat-Free Chocolate Muffins
Low Fat Chocolate Cake snacks
Garlic Sticks
Fat-Free Cream Cheese*
Low Fat Pancakes
Low Fat Waffles
Low Fat Pizza
Low Fat Pizza Bagels
Texas Toast
Fat-Free Whipped Cream*
Fat-Free Chocolate Pudding
[/quote]
Dear god, man!!!
That’s it, I’m so inspired by this thread (ok, these pictures) to switch from constant low carbs to carb cycling. Great thread, I’m reading with much interest!
I predict a discussion of this dieting strategy in the next Question of Strength:
Also:
Is the whole point of the weekly refeed and low-cal/carb eating during the week to basically magnify the effect of peri-workout carb timing?
What I mean is, say you had previously eaten carbs around your workout session to maximize the benefit of your carb intake.
The workout depletes stores, the peri-workout nutrition replenishes them.
This would occur 3-5 times a week: quick depletion, quick replenishment (workout, feed).
Now…
Going low-cal/carb throughout the week and only refeeding roughly once a week is like aggregating all the depletion/replenishment instances in the above scenario into one singular even (the weekly depletion followed by the weekly refeed), and given the more extreme nature of the time frames at play (weekly, rather than daily), the impact of eating this way should be greater.
Since this entire cycle isn’t longer than a week in most cases, that shouldn’t be extreme enough on the body to lose muscle or screw up metabolism.
Right? Dr. Clay?
Stupid question:
You guys mention checking your weight and observing how many days to return to the same weight after your refeed. Obviously, you’re not “stuck” on that baseline weight, right? What I am asking is, how steadily does your weight go up? I wish someone could make an estimate of LBM gains…
just created an excel sheet for “Thibs carb cycling codex” so you dont have to do the calcs. if u want… PM me your email address and ill send it to you.
if its useful post on this thread please:
http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_beginner/useful_tool_carb_cycling
[quote]elusive wrote:
My Angel Food Cake just came out of the oven. Its not the prettiest looking cake around, but I won’t be able to taste the difference. I’m waiting for it to cool off before I frost this bad boy.[/quote]
oooooooooooohhh! I can never wait for food to cool. I will burn the crap out of my mouth while shoveling stuff into it -lol. You need to find some way to make Metabolic Drive frosting!
S
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
oooooooooooohhh! I can never wait for food to cool. I will burn the crap out of my mouth while shoveling stuff into it -lol. You need to find some way to make Metabolic Drive frosting!
S
[/quote]
LOL. I didn’t wait for it to cool either, but the frosting didn’t come out too bad. I honestly feel ashamed I didn’t think of a Metabolic Drive frosting… WOW. I could’ve AT LEAST mixed it into the batter. I will hang my head low… but not for long, because I’m about to start feasting!
YEAH YEAH, I woke up a little eariler than usual lol. I got up to use the bathroom (about 3-4 time a night, annoying) and decided to stay awake.
My breakfast (1st meal):
Some chips
Slice of cake
Ben & Jerry’s Half Baked
2 Bagels
1 choc. muffin
[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
I predict a discussion of this dieting strategy in the next Question of Strength:
[quote}
TM: Coach, there has been a lot of talk about carb cycling with massive refeeds scheduled at regular intervals. What are your thoughts on this?
CP: Well, there’s a saying among the Cossacks: “You can have two sets of balls but God only gave you one scrotum.”
[/quote]
I’d like to see a discussion on this topic. I’ve seen Shugs provide similar input on the Cheater’s Diet to the tune of “There’s a word for people who eat like that: Fat.”
Quick Update:
Ice Cream with chocolate syrup and whipped cream on top of waffles is delicious.
Okay, carry on.
[quote]elusive wrote:
Quick Update:
Ice Cream with chocolate syrup and whipped cream on top of waffles is delicious.
Okay, carry on.[/quote]
Haha. You are nuts. I could never handle that many carbs.
I’m glad Dr. Clay got in on this.
Anyone have an opinion on how many carbs is too low for low days? I’m 192 lbs, at about 1900 cals and 30g carbs on low days. 2100 cals and 75g carbs on medium days. Also, if I’m about 14% bf, what should I shoot for on refeed days?