I have a question guys -
I seem to have the best fat loss via HIIT/circuit training and basketball. I virtually just switch up exercises everyday and end the workout with one or two 5v5 games. Should I keep the carbs at a low for 6 days and just refeed every 7th day? Or, would it be beneficial to carb cycle just for the sole purpose of keeping my body off balance (low and moderate) and just refeed on the 7th day?
I wouldn’t carb cycle throughout the week AND refeed.
The refeed is put in place to keep the body guessing after a weeks worth of punishment.
With a carb cycle (low/med/high days) you are constantly keeping the body guessing so there would be no need for a refeed.
Also, with the refeed approach, 6 days a week would most likely be lower than your “low day” on the carb cycle.
With all that said, I would experiment to see what works best for you. How often are you doing HIIT, circuits and basketball? If you are doing these often I would probably lean towards a carb cycle approach so you can have more carbs/calories in your days. The refeed method may be too low on calories and carbs to function well during your activities.
I do HIIT about 3-4 times a week. I do circuit training on the days I don’t do HIIT. I usually play BBall everyday after the HIIT or circuit training. I was constantly taking in lower than 60g of carbs everyday and getting the rest of my 2200 cals (I’m 6’2", 195lbs 15% BF) from mostly bacon/chicken breasts and thighs /hot dogs/protein shakes (are these high fat foods good??). The fat loss has been steady for awhile, however, it has slowed down considerably - so I’m considering putting in the refeed day to revamp the metabolism.
[quote]AspireApex wrote:
I do HIIT about 3-4 times a week. I do circuit training on the days I don’t do HIIT. I usually play BBall everyday after the HIIT or circuit training. I was constantly taking in lower than 60g of carbs everyday and getting the rest of my 2200 cals (I’m 6’2", 195lbs 15% BF) from mostly bacon/chicken breasts and thighs /hot dogs/protein shakes (are these high fat foods good??). The fat loss has been steady for awhile, however, it has slowed down considerably - so I’m considering putting in the refeed day to revamp the metabolism.[/quote]
I would encourage you to include fish oil, whole eggs, nuts (pecans, almonds, and walnuts are great), and extra virigin olive oil/coconut oil. Having some fat in your diet as a byproduct of meat is fine although there are better choices, and I personally wouldn’t touch a hot dog.
[quote]elusive wrote:
I wouldn’t carb cycle throughout the week AND refeed.
The refeed is put in place to keep the body guessing after a weeks worth of punishment.
With a carb cycle (low/med/high days) you are constantly keeping the body guessing so there would be no need for a refeed.
Also, with the refeed approach, 6 days a week would most likely be lower than your “low day” on the carb cycle.
With all that said, I would experiment to see what works best for you. How often are you doing HIIT, circuits and basketball? If you are doing these often I would probably lean towards a carb cycle approach so you can have more carbs/calories in your days. The refeed method may be too low on calories and carbs to function well during your activities. [/quote]
Isn’t cycling carbs during the week + a refeed what you were/are doing? 50-150g during the week depending on the day and then a giant refeed?
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
elusive wrote:
I wouldn’t carb cycle throughout the week AND refeed.
The refeed is put in place to keep the body guessing after a weeks worth of punishment.
With a carb cycle (low/med/high days) you are constantly keeping the body guessing so there would be no need for a refeed.
Also, with the refeed approach, 6 days a week would most likely be lower than your “low day” on the carb cycle.
With all that said, I would experiment to see what works best for you. How often are you doing HIIT, circuits and basketball? If you are doing these often I would probably lean towards a carb cycle approach so you can have more carbs/calories in your days. The refeed method may be too low on calories and carbs to function well during your activities.
Isn’t cycling carbs during the week + a refeed what you were/are doing? 50-150g during the week depending on the day and then a giant refeed?[/quote]
I was keeping my calories/carbs constant through out the week while refeeding. If there ever was a time I ate less or more it was insignificant and wasn’t done for a reason.
GSD - Day 47
Following much reading and posting over in Thibaudeau’s forums I’ve decided to make a few modifications to the GSD.
In a bid to experiment around the new hyperaminoacidemia protocol, I’m going to ditch the BCAA meal replacements with whey hydrolysate (WH) and leucine. I’m also going to try having this upon waking 30 mins prior to breakfast. This will equate to around 250-300 extra calories a day, which means I’ll have to shave off a few from the meals accordingly. Regarding para-workout, CT has also suggested I take in 20g carbs pre-workout, with the WH and leucine during and afterwards. So I’ll try that, again being careful with carb intake for the remainder of the day.
Let the fun commence!
[quote]JamesBrawn007 wrote:
GSD - Day 47
Following much reading and posting over in Thibaudeau’s forums I’ve decided to make a few modifications to the GSD.
In a bid to experiment around the new hyperaminoacidemia protocol, I’m going to ditch the BCAA meal replacements with whey hydrolysate (WH) and leucine. I’m also going to try having this upon waking 30 mins prior to breakfast. This will equate to around 250-300 extra calories a day, which means I’ll have to shave off a few from the meals accordingly. Regarding para-workout, CT has also suggested I take in 20g carbs pre-workout, with the WH and leucine during and afterwards. So I’ll try that, again being careful with carb intake for the remainder of the day.
Let the fun commence![/quote]
uh oh…messing with the plan thats been working. lol, you’ve been on it long enough to see the good results though so this should be a good experiment
by the way this is pretty irrelevant but I was just thinking about Dave Tate on the GSD. In his pictures of the “get unshredded diet” they put up the exact same pics as the ones in the “get shredded diet” where they say he got that lean without the GSD lol. Also they say he continued the GSD and got to around 8.5%bf and then stopped but those after pictures of before he started the actual GSD he was at 8-10% so he really didn’t do anything with the diet at all lol.
Heres my plan, I may add 100 calories or so:
Pre-exercise
-Protein powder, 1 scoops (22g): 120 calories, 23g protein, 2g carbs, 2.5g fat
Meal 1
-steak, 3 oz.: 171 calories, 30g protein, 0g carbs, 5.1g fat
-Brocolli, 6 oz: 60 calories, 4.8g protein, 11.2g carbs, 0.7g
-Olive Oil, 1.33tbsp: 160 calories, 0g protein, 0g carbs, 18.67g fat
SUBTOTALS: 391 calories, 34.8g protein, 11.2 (6.8) carbs, 24.47g fat
Meal 2
-5 whole eggs: 350 calories, 30g protein, 3.3g carbs, 22.5g fat
-Brocolli, 6 oz: 60 calories, 4.8g protein, 11.2g carbs, 0.7g
SUBTOTALS: 410 calories, 34.8g protein, 14.5 (10.1)g carbs, 23.2g fat
Meal 3
-Chicken, 5 oz: 167calories, 35g protein, 0g carbs, 5g fat
-Brocolli, 6 oz: 60 calories, 4.8g protein, 11.2g carbs, 0.7g fat
-Olive Oil, 1.33tbsp: 160 calories, 0g protein, 0g carbs, 18.67g fat
SUBTOTALS: 387 calories, 39.8g protein, 11.2 (6.8)g carbs, 24.37g fat
Meal 4
-fish oil, 4 pills: 40 calories, 0g protein, 0g carbs, 4.5g fat
-Cottage cheese, 1/2 cup: 100calories, 15g protein, 6g carbs, 1.5g fat
-1 turkey burgers: 160 calories, 19g protein, 0g carbs, 9g fat
SUBTOTALS: 300 calories, 34g protein, 6g carbs, 15g fat
TOTALS: 1608 calories, 166.4g protein, 44.9(31.7)g carbs, 89.54g fat 1598.26
41.64% protein 7.93% carbs 50.42% fat
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
Heres my plan, I may add 100 calories or so:
Pre-exercise
-Protein powder, 1 scoops (22g): 120 calories, 23g protein, 2g carbs, 2.5g fat
Meal 1
-steak, 3 oz.: 171 calories, 30g protein, 0g carbs, 5.1g fat
-Brocolli, 6 oz: 60 calories, 4.8g protein, 11.2g carbs, 0.7g
-Olive Oil, 1.33tbsp: 160 calories, 0g protein, 0g carbs, 18.67g fat
SUBTOTALS: 391 calories, 34.8g protein, 11.2 (6.8) carbs, 24.47g fat
Meal 2
-5 whole eggs: 350 calories, 30g protein, 3.3g carbs, 22.5g fat
-Brocolli, 6 oz: 60 calories, 4.8g protein, 11.2g carbs, 0.7g
SUBTOTALS: 410 calories, 34.8g protein, 14.5 (10.1)g carbs, 23.2g fat
Meal 3
-Chicken, 5 oz: 167calories, 35g protein, 0g carbs, 5g fat
-Brocolli, 6 oz: 60 calories, 4.8g protein, 11.2g carbs, 0.7g fat
-Olive Oil, 1.33tbsp: 160 calories, 0g protein, 0g carbs, 18.67g fat
SUBTOTALS: 387 calories, 39.8g protein, 11.2 (6.8)g carbs, 24.37g fat
Meal 4
-fish oil, 4 pills: 40 calories, 0g protein, 0g carbs, 4.5g fat
-Cottage cheese, 1/2 cup: 100calories, 15g protein, 6g carbs, 1.5g fat
-1 turkey burgers: 160 calories, 19g protein, 0g carbs, 9g fat
SUBTOTALS: 300 calories, 34g protein, 6g carbs, 15g fat
TOTALS: 1608 calories, 166.4g protein, 44.9(31.7)g carbs, 89.54g fat 1598.26
41.64% protein 7.93% carbs 50.42% fat [/quote]
Looks solid enough mate. Your calories are quite low. You could consider starting closer to 1800? I would bump my fish oil intake up also to 10-15g per day. I also take 4g evening primrose for it’s anti-inflammatory properties. It’s cheap to source these days.
Your workout nutrition is extremly basic. When I posted Thibaudeau about CKD para-workout nutrition he advised Surge Workout Fuel prior (21g carbs), whey hydrolysate and leucine during and after. I have the latter but Workout Fuel is rare in the UK and expensive. For the time being I’m sticking with WH and leucine and will consider investing in Workout Fuel or sourcing a more inexpensive pre-workout option.
Good luck mate - and keep us updated.
oh lord how I love high carb days!!!
[quote]JamesBrawn007 wrote:
Looks solid enough mate. Your calories are quite low. You could consider starting closer to 1800? I would bump my fish oil intake up also to 10-15g per day. I also take 4g evening primrose for it’s anti-inflammatory properties. It’s cheap to source these days.
Your workout nutrition is extremly basic. When I posted Thibaudeau about CKD para-workout nutrition he advised Surge Workout Fuel prior (21g carbs), whey hydrolysate and leucine during and after. I have the latter but Workout Fuel is rare in the UK and expensive. For the time being I’m sticking with WH and leucine and will consider investing in Workout Fuel or sourcing a more inexpensive pre-workout option.
Good luck mate - and keep us updated. [/quote]
Well I was going by the BWx10 recommendation. I’m only 170lb. now so I was thinking 1620 on off days and 1720 on workout days.
As for workout nutrition, I really don’t have money for all of that stuff right now so the things I have are:
-Whey powder
-Creatine
-Fish Oil
-Multivitamin
-Green tea
If anything I would consider buying BCAA’s but for now I don’t think so.
As for training this is what I had in mind
Sunday: off
Monday: Lower/upper Pull strength workout 1, followed by 3 sets of 1 metabolic pairing (by CT)
Tuesday: Off
Wednesday: Upper push strength workout 1, followed by 3 sets of 1 metabolic pairing
Thursday: Lower/upper pull strength workout 2, followed by 20min. incline walking
Friday: OFF
Saturday: Upper push strength workout 2, followed by 3 sets of 1 metabolic pairing
what do you think? It’s a significant amount of activity but I’m considering adding a 30min. incline walk on Sunday since I have 3 off days. I’ll only be doing the GSD for about 5 weeks but if fat loss stalls then cardio will be added on off days because calories are not going lower lol
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
Well I was going by the BWx10 recommendation. I’m only 170lb. now so I was thinking 1620 on off days and 1720 on workout days.
As for workout nutrition, I really don’t have money for all of that stuff right now so the things I have are:
-Whey powder
-Creatine
-Fish Oil
-Multivitamin
-Green tea
If anything I would consider buying BCAA’s but for now I don’t think so.
As for training this is what I had in mind
Sunday: off
Monday: Lower/upper Pull strength workout 1, followed by 3 sets of 1 metabolic pairing (by CT)
Tuesday: Off
Wednesday: Upper push strength workout 1, followed by 3 sets of 1 metabolic pairing
Thursday: Lower/upper pull strength workout 2, followed by 20min. incline walking
Friday: OFF
Saturday: Upper push strength workout 2, followed by 3 sets of 1 metabolic pairing
what do you think? It’s a significant amount of activity but I’m considering adding a 30min. incline walk on Sunday since I have 3 off days. I’ll only be doing the GSD for about 5 weeks but if fat loss stalls then cardio will be added on off days because calories are not going lower lol[/quote]
Looks good to me. As I said, I would consider starting at the upper calorie threshold to begin with. I’ve never stuck to the x10 recommendation and opted more for x11. Berardi states you can have -/+ 200 flexibility on GSD.
I would consider budgeting on BCAAs for the meal replacements. Of course, it could be argued whey would be just as effective (I’ve moved to whey hydrolysate myself - but only after 7 weeks on the BCAA/creatine replacements). Otherwise, the supplements you listed are all you need.
Regarding training, again looks solid. I would consider walking on non-training days for at least 30mins building up to 60mins. I also followed Berardi’s cardio advice: 15mins low intensity immediately after workouts (although I’m adding a few mins on now as I get fitter). This also appears to be the optimum time for steady state work. I wouldn’t do it on off days.
Regarding cardio, you could phase this in, e.g. week 1 - twice per week; week 2 - three times per week, etc. Or, since you’re plan is 5 weeks long, beast it for the first 14 days. You might see something like a 6lbs weight drop doing this. Then scale back from week three to avoid any negative effects, instead cutting calories slightly. I didn’t do this because I wanted to go as long on GSD as possible and I feared early burnout if I went down the blast route.
One aspect I would like to incorporate more into my GSD plan is increased intake of chilled water. This apparently has quite an effect on increased calorie use (because the body has to heat it first).
[quote]JamesBrawn007 wrote:
Looks good to me. As I said, I would consider starting at the upper calorie threshold to begin with. I’ve never stuck to the x10 recommendation and opted more for x11. Berardi states you can have -/+ 200 flexibility on GSD.
I would consider budgeting on BCAAs for the meal replacements. Of course, it could be argued whey would be just as effective (I’ve moved to whey hydrolysate myself - but only after 7 weeks on the BCAA/creatine replacements). Otherwise, the supplements you listed are all you need.
[/quote]
I was actually planning on doing bwx11 originally. I figured I’d do the 90% from fat and protein to actually make up the BWx10 and then add 10% of that in vegetables giving me another 170 calories. Then as I made the plan I got the numbers above and saw it fit pretty perfectly.
As I think about it though I think I will increase it from 1620 off/ 1710 workout days to 1750 off/1840 workout days especially just I’m just starting it. And clearly you got good results with BWx11 so why not.
Tonight I have to be up from 12am-5am so I’m going to add a 3-400 calorie shake anyway which will in a way add 150-200 to today and tomorrow. Starting Sunday I’ll add it to the normal diet.
[quote]
Regarding training, again looks solid. I would consider walking on non-training days for at least 30mins building up to 60mins. I also followed Berardi’s cardio advice: 15mins low intensity immediately after workouts (although I’m adding a few mins on now as I get fitter). This also appears to be the optimum time for steady state work. I wouldn’t do it on off days.
Regarding cardio, you could phase this in, e.g. week 1 - twice per week; week 2 - three times per week, etc. Or, since you’re plan is 5 weeks long, beast it for the first 14 days. You might see something like a 6lbs weight drop doing this. Then scale back from week three to avoid any negative effects, instead cutting calories slightly. I didn’t do this because I wanted to go as long on GSD as possible and I feared early burnout if I went down the blast route.
One aspect I would like to incorporate more into my GSD plan is increased intake of chilled water. This apparently has quite an effect on increased calorie use (because the body has to heat it first).[/quote]
You think I should have a 30 min. day of walking every off day in addition to the 4 workouts and short post workout cardio? I was thinking of adding in more cardio after 2 weeks but not right away. Maybe 1 more.
by the “phasing in” I’m guessing you meant the cardio thats seperate from PWO cardio right?
Oh and I don’t think it’ll make much difference but did you have your PWO shake before or after the PWO cardio? I was thinking after…
As for the chilled water, I think you’d be disappointed. The energy necessary to increase the temp. of it really wouldn’t add up to much.
Oh and by the way…this sucks lol. Mentally I notice I’m often looking at the time and when I’m going to eat next since I’m so used to 6 meals a day. Physically I’m obviously hungry. Oh well, hopefully the results will keep me motivated and 5 weeks really isn’t that long
Pulsing sounds really complicated, is the basis that you replace X amount of calories with Y grams of amino acids?
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
I was actually planning on doing bwx11 originally. I figured I’d do the 90% from fat and protein to actually make up the BWx10 and then add 10% of that in vegetables giving me another 170 calories. Then as I made the plan I got the numbers above and saw it fit pretty perfectly.
As I think about it though I think I will increase it from 1620 off/ 1710 workout days to 1750 off/1840 workout days especially just I’m just starting it. And clearly you got good results with BWx11 so why not.
Tonight I have to be up from 12am-5am so I’m going to add a 3-400 calorie shake anyway which will in a way add 150-200 to today and tomorrow. Starting Sunday I’ll add it to the normal diet.
You think I should have a 30 min. day of walking every off day in addition to the 4 workouts and short post workout cardio? I was thinking of adding in more cardio after 2 weeks but not right away. Maybe 1 more.
by the “phasing in” I’m guessing you meant the cardio thats seperate from PWO cardio right?
Oh and I don’t think it’ll make much difference but did you have your PWO shake before or after the PWO cardio? I was thinking after…
As for the chilled water, I think you’d be disappointed. The energy necessary to increase the temp. of it really wouldn’t add up to much.
[/quote]
Yes, regarding walking - do this every non-training day. It doesn’t have to be power walking over inclines, just honest walking at a decent pace in the neighbourhood. This form of exercise is non-catabolic, doesn’t trigger appetite pangs, gets you fresh air and sunlight, and of course burns extra calories.
Regarding low intensity cardio, this should certainly be accommodated post-workout. I sip a whey and leucine drink during weights and take a few final slugs before going for my post-workout jog. I then have the post-workout shake after the jog.
You then have a choice of adding in extra cardio on non-training days, or later in the day if you were doing a double-split. I did a stepper in my garage with a weighted pack on for up to 45mins during he first three weeks on non-training days. However, I wasn’t doing the post-workout cardio at that point so the minute I started that I dropped the stepper. If I had to choose between them I’d go for post-workout cardio becase it is the optimum time to do steady state.
What I meant by “phasing” was just the quantity of cardio, e.g. week 1 - 15 mins post-workout; week 2 - 20 mins post-workout, etc. If you’re generally fit then you can afford to start with a higher duration. I wasn’t so I stayed at 15 mins post-workout for weeks.
Be careful with the nightshifts. This messes with your hormones. If in doubt ingest more calories if your doing nighshifts.
Regarding hunger, I didn’t really get hungry on GSD. I honestly think the BCAAs/creatine replacements helped with plenty of water.
Hi all, I’ve converted!
I was on the AD, saw some pretty good body recomp results but I’m looking to bulk so I’ve decided to move over to the Carb Side!
I started by having two 300-350g CHO days (strictly peri-workout) a few days apart instead of the weekly carb-load.
I’m now at the stage where I’m doing three 200g CHO days with the rest around 30-40g.
I read through this thread and the CC articles a few weeks back but I’m going to cover everything again and get my figures lined up.
I look forward to bugging you all with my experiences and I appreciate all the info already within this thread.
GSD - Day 49 - 168lbs (starting weight 180lbs)
Well, it had to happen. My weight loss has stalled this week. Not the first time it’s happened but at a more crucial time since commencing this diet.
This is especially disappointing because I’ve felt pretty hungry this week, probably the most since commencing the diet. I missed 2 daily walks this week, and couldn’t do any cardio after my workout on Thursday evening following a major cramp in my left calf. This later spread to my insteps in both feet and made me realise the CKD in pretty hard on water/salt depletion, so I’m trying to add some salt to food to compensate.
My tape measure tells me I’ve lost 1/4ins from my waist but I’m not reading too much into it given my weight loss has stalled.
Given I lost 1lb between week 5 and 6; and haven’t lost anything between week 6 and 7, I realise I’ve now reached a crossroads with this diet. I have my weekly heavy session later today so I’ll assess things again based on my current strength levels (which have been stable since I started). I have been protein pulsing for the last three days so that may spark a positive reaction in the gym.
Otherwise I will ramp up activity levels for the next week. I don’t feel I can cut calories anymore. I’m averaging 1800-1900 per day.
My refeed is 8 days away so I’ll strive to work for it this week and shoot for a 1-2lb loss. Hard times ahead!
For the record, here’s the bare weight stats since commencing GSD:
Start 19/04/09 - 180lbs
End of week one: 25/04/09 - 178lbs
End of week two: 03/05/09 - 176lbs
End of week three: 11/05/09 - 176lbs
End of week four: 16/05/09 - 170lbs
End of week five: 22/05/09 - 169lbs
End of week six: 30/05/09 - 168lbs
End of week seven: 06/06/09 - 168lbs
[quote]JamesBrawn007 wrote:
Yes, regarding walking - do this every non-training day. It doesn’t have to be power walking over inclines, just honest walking at a decent pace in the neighbourhood. This form of exercise is non-catabolic, doesn’t trigger appetite pangs, gets you fresh air and sunlight, and of course burns extra calories.
Regarding low intensity cardio, this should certainly be accommodated post-workout. I sip a whey and leucine drink during weights and take a few final slugs before going for my post-workout jog. I then have the post-workout shake after the jog.
You then have a choice of adding in extra cardio on non-training days, or later in the day if you were doing a double-split. I did a stepper in my garage with a weighted pack on for up to 45mins during he first three weeks on non-training days. However, I wasn’t doing the post-workout cardio at that point so the minute I started that I dropped the stepper. If I had to choose between them I’d go for post-workout cardio becase it is the optimum time to do steady state.
What I meant by “phasing” was just the quantity of cardio, e.g. week 1 - 15 mins post-workout; week 2 - 20 mins post-workout, etc. If you’re generally fit then you can afford to start with a higher duration. I wasn’t so I stayed at 15 mins post-workout for weeks.
Be careful with the nightshifts. This messes with your hormones. If in doubt ingest more calories if your doing nighshifts.
Regarding hunger, I didn’t really get hungry on GSD. I honestly think the BCAAs/creatine replacements helped with plenty of water.[/quote]
OK sounds good. This mornings breakfast was filling, I kind of want to be hungry because I’ll know my metabolism is still up but not being hungry is always nice lol.
It looks like I’ve got a solid place to start. This is week 1 so I’ll have the 4 workout sessions followed by either 3 sets of a metabolic pair or 20min. incline walking (incline walking was what I did yesterday). I’ll also have atleast one walk outside of that but considering I’ll be having 3 days off that’ll probably go to 2 and then more frequently/longer in the following weeks.
I’ll keep updates in this thread.
[quote]JamesBrawn007 wrote:
GSD - Day 49 - 168lbs (starting weight 180lbs)
Well, it had to happen. My weight loss has stalled this week. Not the first time it’s happened but at a more crucial time since commencing this diet.
[/quote]
1/4in off your waist in a week is pretty good actually and if your doing the protein pulsing it’s possible you did a slight recomp this week. I wouldn’t sweat it but I agree that after 7 weeks things would most likely get significantly slower. What did you do from week 3-4 that you lost 6lb. after stalling?
By the way to anyone who’s interested, I took a week off from dieting before starting the GSD and added 600 calories a day in the form of fruit and oatmeal. I was full at first but hungry by the end of the week so I’m sure metabolism got a boost, both arm measurements went up about 1/4in. (glycogen I know but both almost tied with how they were back when I was 12lb. heavier), weight was up about 1.5lb. but surprisingly most caliper measurements went down a little…so I would definitely recommend something like this to those who are still looking to lose more fat but have been aggressively dieting for awhile