Carbs Cycling Experience

Nutrition
661

[quote]JamesBrawn007 wrote:

There appears to be two schools of thought: (1) according to my reading of Berardi, the macronutrient split during refeed is not that specific and anything more or less goes as long as you don’t exceed 3.5x your usual GSD caloric intake. This also tallies with the views of Mauro DiPasquale and his Anabolic Diet (the original version anyway); (2) ingest loads of carbs but minimise fat intake as much as possible. At one end of the spectrum is CT, who advocates a clean carb-up with only 200g or so of quality carbs. His argument is that a body in ketosis can only take in 300g or so of carbs and the rest will get stored as fat so theories that state glycogen ‘supercompensation’ will occur during huge refeeds with 1000g of carbs are flawed. Other CKD proponents like Lyle McDonald obviously sit at the other side of the spectrum and advocate such huge carb refeeds, with these carbs often coming in the shape of simple sugars.

Personally, I’m committed to a middle ground. So I’ll attempt to carb up with relatively good food until 6pm, then indulge in a large cheat meal at night with perhaps some cake, etc. Of course I’ll be staying within the 6,000 calorie limit regardless.[/quote]

Yea theres definitely a lot of controversy on the topic. Personally I like lyle’s opinion because I’ve read all his research on it and it’s proven with studies. I would never discount what CT or Berardi says though. There are tons of competitors who have huge and dirty refeeds while others keep it to around 600-800g of carbs that are mostly clear and low fat. Personally Lyle’s recommendations (at least in his original keto book) put me at about 600-700g which, if you keep fat low, only gives about 4000 calories which, as far as calories go, isn’t too extreme.

With the GSD though the calories are significantly lower than lyles CKD recommendations AND your going for 2 weeks without a refeed instead of 1 so I don’t see a problem with the dirtier and higher caloric refeed of around 6000. Most here read his refeed in the article and it’s obviously not clean lol

662

phatkins,

Check my profile (again).

663

Gave me an error. :-/

664

MD Podcast I did if anyone is interested:
http://www.musculardevelopment.com/content/view/1570/184/

665

Shelby,

Thanks for checking up on this thread! It’s great that people are trying to teach others from their experiences. This thread should be stickied.

666

GSD - Day 34 - 169lbs (12%BF). Starting weight 180lbs (16% BF)

Well, the weekly weigh-in revealed a drop of 1lbs. I expected to be around the same weight because, as I stated in earlier updates, the week from 11-17th was a bit of a personal nightmare leading to a 6lbs weight drop. I feel 7 days later I have stabilised from that week, so I’ve effectively lost 7lbs over the last 14 days and all appears back on track.

Now, the negative side: I’m down 1/8th on the bicep. That means I’m down 1/2 in total since commencing the GSD. My waist is down 2-3/4 since starting.
I have a strength workout scheduled later today so that will tell me if my strength has been negatively affected. So far it hasn’t.

I’ve also done the math and, assuming the Tanita BF measurements are accurate, I have lost 8lbs of fat. This means the remaining 3lbs were non-fat. That leaves fluids and lean muscle. Given I was on a low-carb diet for the week prior to GSD I could assume I lost little fluid when in full ketosis and the loss is lean mass. However, even a 3lbs lean mass loss would not lead to a 1/2 decrease in my bicep.

I’m quite philosophical about all of this. The fact is I’m as flat as a pancake following such prolonged carb depletion. The key will be to measure up the day after my next carb up (30th) when I expect it to be back to close the original measurement.

Other observations: still avoiding all stimulants (HRX, and coffee, etc). Appetite levels still under control, no mad cravings. Good energy levels, no obvious signs of fatigue or need for daytime nap. Sleeping well (average 8 hours).

JB

667

[quote]JamesBrawn007 wrote:
GSD - Day 34 - 169lbs (12%BF). Starting weight 180lbs (16% BF)

Well, the weekly weigh-in revealed a drop of 1lbs. I expected to be around the same weight because, as I stated in earlier updates, the week from 11-17th was a bit of a personal nightmare leading to a 6lbs weight drop. I feel 7 days later I have stabilised from that week, so I’ve effectively lost 7lbs over the last 14 days and all appears back on track.

Now, the negative side: I’m down 1/8th on the bicep. That means I’m down 1/2 in total since commencing the GSD. My waist is down 2-3/4 since starting.
I have a strength workout scheduled later today so that will tell me if my strength has been negatively affected. So far it hasn’t.

I’ve also done the math and, assuming the Tanita BF measurements are accurate, I have lost 8lbs of fat. This means the remaining 3lbs were non-fat. That leaves fluids and lean muscle. Given I was on a low-carb diet for the week prior to GSD I could assume I lost little fluid when in full ketosis and the loss is lean mass. However, even a 3lbs lean mass loss would not lead to a 1/2 decrease in my bicep.

I’m quite philosophical about all of this. The fact is I’m as flat as a pancake following such prolonged carb depletion. The key will be to measure up the day after my next carb up (30th) when I expect it to be back to close the original measurement.

Other observations: still avoiding all stimulants (HRX, and coffee, etc). Appetite levels still under control, no mad cravings. Good energy levels, no obvious signs of fatigue or need for daytime nap. Sleeping well (average 8 hours).

JB[/quote]

It seems like really good results man. I can’t say I think those tanita scales are very accurate but assuming those are good estimates about 8.5lb. was fat like you said. 2.5lbm loss isn’t surprising to me at all with this considering how low the food volume is (not only less carbs but just having less food in you overall). Probably a little muscle but it doesn’t seem too drastic and as for the 1/2 in on the bicep that always sucks to see for sure but hopefully it will go back to normal soon and as you said 3lb. overall lbm loss even if all muscle wouldn’t cause 1/2in loss on biceps.

668

[quote]pumped340 wrote:

It seems like really good results man. I can’t say I think those tanita scales are very accurate but assuming those are good estimates about 8.5lb. was fat like you said. 2.5lbm loss isn’t surprising to me at all with this considering how low the food volume is (not only less carbs but just having less food in you overall). Probably a little muscle but it doesn’t seem too drastic and as for the 1/2 in on the bicep that always sucks to see for sure but hopefully it will go back to normal soon and as you said 3lb. overall lbm loss even if all muscle wouldn’t cause 1/2in loss on biceps.

[/quote]

Cheers mate. I’ve since trained and my reps were the exact same as my last strength session on Sunday. Workout looked like this:

A1) Flat Bench 4-5 reps
A2) Flat Fly 6-8 reps
rest 2 mins then
B1) Pull-up 4-5 reps
B2) Reverse Press Up 4-7 reps
rest 2 mins then repeat A

These supersets are repeated 5 times. It’s pretty close to CT’s recommendations in his Refined Physique Transformation article. Since recovering from a lower back problem (chiropractor on Wednesday said I still had a slight pelvic tilt) I finished off with 3 sets of BB lunges 6-8 reps, immediately followed by one set of bodyweight squats to failure. Total training time 43mins.

669

[quote]JamesBrawn007 wrote:
pumped340 wrote:

It seems like really good results man. I can’t say I think those tanita scales are very accurate but assuming those are good estimates about 8.5lb. was fat like you said. 2.5lbm loss isn’t surprising to me at all with this considering how low the food volume is (not only less carbs but just having less food in you overall). Probably a little muscle but it doesn’t seem too drastic and as for the 1/2 in on the bicep that always sucks to see for sure but hopefully it will go back to normal soon and as you said 3lb. overall lbm loss even if all muscle wouldn’t cause 1/2in loss on biceps.

Cheers mate. I’ve since trained and my reps were the exact same as my last strength session on Sunday. Workout looked like this:

A1) Flat Bench 4-5 reps
A2) Flat Fly 6-8 reps
rest 2 mins then
B1) Pull-up 4-5 reps
B2) Reverse Press Up 4-7 reps
rest 2 mins then repeat A

These supersets are repeated 5 times. It’s pretty close to CT’s recommendations in his Refined Physique Transformation article. Since recovering from a lower back problem (chiropractor on Wednesday said I still had a slight pelvic tilt) I finished off with 3 sets of BB lunges 6-8 reps, immediately followed by one set of bodyweight squats to failure. Total training time 43mins.
[/quote]

looks good, so are you even trying to beat the reps you got last time or do you keep it the same just to make sure your not losing strength? It does look similar to CT’s recommendations in that article, how many of your sets are a rep short of failing?

670

[quote]pumped340 wrote:

looks good, so are you even trying to beat the reps you got last time or do you keep it the same just to make sure your not losing strength? It does look similar to CT’s recommendations in that article, how many of your sets are a rep short of failing?[/quote]

In the perfect world I would be hoping to add reps and/or load. In reality this has slowed and yesterday’s workout was hard but still on a par with the previous session. The load for this workout got me 4 sets of 5 reps, with 1 set of 4 on the last (5th), for the bench and pull-up.

This morning and I am feeling nice and tight in all the usual areas, which I always like post-workout.

This week I plan to add in a new lactate workout for some variety. I’m looking at combo moves like DB lunge with shoulder press. I also liked some of the suggestions of the Cardio Drills That Don’t Suck article, so will devise something along those lines.
I’m also considering moving the strength session to once every 7 days in a bid to accommodate 2 lactate sessions in a week (this is recommended by CT).

671

Well these last 2 weeks I changed things up by taking away the PWO carbs and adding in 2 metabolic sessions followed by 2 30min. walks

I bought a new scale that I think is accurate but maybe slightly higher than my old one which I think was a little off. Anyway it says I’m the same weight (so I probably dropped a half of a pound or something) BUT all caliper measurements are significantly down, I’ve lost a little over 1% body fat (so almost 2lb.) while apparently getting some lbm back. I can’t make any big judgments yet but clearly the results were good and I’m noticeably leaner.

When I start the get shredded diet I think I’ll see a benefit from the lower weekly calories (500 less than I’m taking in now) but as for only 1 refeed every 2 weeks I’ll have to see. It could do me better to have a more moderate one (5000 calories or so) once a week instead of an all-you-can-eat day every 2 weeks. I’ll see how it goes.

672

I have pasted a comment below from CT’s Locker Room. It came from a poster called DH. Thibs later stated he is in agreement with this nutritional development. It concerns “pulses of hyperaminoacidemia”, which is achieved by replacing calorie-dense food with amino acids. The theory is this actually facilitates growth via a positive nitrogen balance despite the obvious energy reduction.
What is interesting for me is that it also corresponds to Berardi’s GSD claims that adding BCAAs instead of meals leads to, at the very least, retention of mass despite the calorie deficeit: -

I’ve been using a techinque of eating every 4 hours cycle with BCAA in between. I was tyring to set up an improved cyclic approach to the following study by Paddon-Jones et al.

They investigated if combining 30 g of carbohydrate and 15 g of essential amino acids (CAA) altered the metabolic response to a nutritionally mixed meal in healthy, recreationally active male volunteers. Results found that the supplement group experienced 25% greater nitrogen balance than the control group. Further the supplement did not blunt the anabolic response which occurred in a normal meal. These findings suggest that a fast digesting amino acid supplement between meals enhances anabolism throughout the day. These findings also support other studies which indicate that acute increases in protein synthesis are additive in nature to the normal protein synthesis which occurs in a given day

Paddon-Jones D, Sheffield-Moore M, Aarsland A, Wolfe RR, Ferrando AA. Exogenous amino acids stimulate human muscle anabolism without interfering with the response to mixed meal ingestion. Am J Physiol Endocrinology Metab. 2005, 288(4):E761-7.

I use BCAA vs full EAA’s because there should be plenty of substrate left in my system from the meals so as to prevent any rate limiting problems and provide what may be “needed” by the BCAA’s (particularly leucine) to promote PS.

I’m 261 lbs and during the weekdays on the AD, Im doing the following with good results:

7am Solid meal 55g Pro, 50g fat
9am 8-10g BCAA (4-5g Leu)
11am Solid meal 55g pro, 40g fat
1pm 8-10g BCAA
etc…

This is an example of an off day. It provides 275 protein, and as I slowly drop my fat grams toward bedtime, about 200g fat. I’ll hit about 40-50g BCAA’s total.

Contrary to what many gurus would suggest, this facilitates gains even at what many would consider an insufficient energy intake for someone my size. Capitalizing on multiple pulses of hyperaminoacidemia coupled with the protein sparing effects of the full meals is a potent way to eat. I’d also suggest making your last protein meal of the day one that contains at least 20g of casein ( I use 35-40) for the anti-proteolytic benefits.

673

^ Sounds an awful lot like what Layne Norton does.

674

[quote]esk221 wrote:
^ Sounds an awful lot like what Layne Norton does.[/quote]

does it work for layne norton? I’d do the research myself but I really dont have time this weekend to do a detailed search+read. it seems like an interesting protocol…

675

Hey guys, this is my training week: Monday, Wednesday, Friday weight workout, Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday HIIT in form of a beating the shit out of a tire with a 12 pound hammer, Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday and Saturday volleyball practice (beach volley tournament on Saturday). Will this be a little tiresome? I’m thinking for starters high days Monday, Wednesday and Friday and then I’ll see where it goes?

676

GSD Day 37

Introduced new lactate session yesterday. I train in my garage, so equipment-wise I ended up with this:

A1) DB Alternating Lunge x15 reps
A2) Lat Pulldown x12
A3) Flat DB Bench x10
A4) Deadlift x12
A5) Push Press x8

This was performed back-to-back as a circuit 5 times with 90s between circuits. I immediately went for a 15min jog on completion. I need to adjust the load for the next session as I think the rep range needs to be raised to the 12-15 mark because I didn’t quite experience the lactate build-up that I do in my other latate workout. However I purchased a heart rate monitor and I was getting up to the 95% max during the circuits, so that should have facilitated some GH release.
I felt good energy levels at the time. However, I completed training at 1pm and felt tired until I went to bed at night.

Five days, including today, until refeed day (30th). The fortnightly ketosis period seems to be getting longer and longer and I’m doubting whether I’ll manage to get to day 56 on the current protocol.

My weekly plan is below. However this is subject to change based on energy levels, work commitments, etc. The diet will stay fixed whatever happens:

Monday - 45-60min walk
Tuesday - lactate session A +15mins cardio
Wednesday - as Monday
Thursday - lactate session B +15mins cardio
Friday - as Monday
Saturday (refeed) - strength session
Sunday - as Monday

For those interested in the diet, here is what a day typically looks like:

Breakfast
3 whole eggs + 2 whites scrambled
30g low fat cheese
100g mixed berries with low fat yogurt and Splenda to taste
Green tea
5g fish oil, 2g GLA, multi-vit/min

Snack 1
5g BCAAs
2.5g creatine

Lunch
200g salmon
large salad with oil dressing
5g fish oil

Snack 2
(as Snack 1)

Dinner
200g chicken breast
green veg, e.g. brocolli, cauliflower, more salad
5g fish oil

Snack 3
30g casein
5g inulin
additional oil if calories required

Calories equate to 1800-2000max. I should be on 1700 on this diet but I feel pretty hungry if I don’t get closer to the 1900-2000 mark. Having the casein shake last thing at night is useful for several reasons. The slow release protein is well-documented. It’s also handy to tweak your calorie intake. For example, if I’ve gone close to the 2000 calorie mark then I don’t add oil. If I’ve been around the 1700 mark then I can add a few grams of fish oil and go to bed knowing I’ve again hit the calorie target.

JB

677

JamesBrawn just some things I noticed:

1.Your having berries with yogurt? Aren’t there supposed to be only green veggies for carbs?

  1. So your only doing 1 strength workout? As for the lactate sessions have you tried his metabolic pairings? He says they’re the “evolved form” of the lactate workouts…It’s what I’ve been doing anyway.

  2. Have you considered trying a more frequent refeed? It seems many are having it once a week to help keep more muscle/strength while not feeling so drained. I myself am considering this when I start soon.

678

Does fat free ice cream tear anybody’s guts up? Elusive?

BTW, I have two new favorite staples for refeeds - Fiddle Faddle and the Quakers Flavored Mini Rice Cakes. Chocolate especially.

679

[quote]pumped340 wrote:
JamesBrawn just some things I noticed:

1.Your having berries with yogurt? Aren’t there supposed to be only green veggies for carbs?

  1. So your only doing 1 strength workout? As for the lactate sessions have you tried his metabolic pairings? He says they’re the “evolved form” of the lactate workouts…It’s what I’ve been doing anyway.

  2. Have you considered trying a more frequent refeed? It seems many are having it once a week to help keep more muscle/strength while not feeling so drained. I myself am considering this when I start soon. [/quote]

Hi mate

  1. Certain fruits function like the veggies, i.e. low GI and good fibre source. Rasperries and blueberries are my choice. Together with the yogurt, it equals around 12g carbs. Recall that Berardi doesn’t actually recommend per se going keto. He believes the carbs and calories are so low anyway that fat loss is inevitable on GSD, and that ketosis may or may not be a byproduct of the diet. In addition, CT also states that green veggies, etc, (unless your consuming vast portions) don’t actually count towards your daily carb intake. In addition to green veggies and the morning fruit, I consume only trace carbs. Therefore, my daily carb total from all sources is probably 30-50g. I stick to this because (a) I want to be in ketosis for maximal fat-burning effect; (2) I don’t really feel the need to use my 20g or so daily allowance on a starchy carb source to curb a craving. I can live without it.

  2. I was doing the strength workout every 5 days but I wanted to budget in 2 lactate sessions a week. The logic being this was that these sessions, contrary to some belief, can actually lead to lean muscle gain and are not solely there as fat-burners. I’ve felt this during previous diet phases that body comp has improved via high-rep, lactate sessions. Therefore, I’m moving the strength session to once per week to accommodate these.
    In regards to metabolic pairings, I’ve read CT’s stuff on this and quite fancy it. However, there are many ways to train to achieve this, e.g. complexes. I stick to what I think works for me with the equipment set-up I have. However, I’m flexible. Today in the Big Lats article there is a standing compound row which I’m thinking of incorporating because it looks perfect for a lactate session.

  3. I will likely move to a carb-up every 7 or 10 days at some stage. As a natural endomorph, I find fat loss a perennial issue. In the 4 years I’ve been training most of it has been some diet programme. I’m kind of determined now to stick as far as I can to GSD to try and get as far as I can to achieving a 6-pack (something I’ve never had in my 38 years of life!).
    If I did go to weekly refeeds I know I would have to budget in as many clean foods as possible with a calorie ceiling of 3000 or so.

680

[quote]esk221 wrote:
Does fat free ice cream tear anybody’s guts up? Elusive?

BTW, I have two new favorite staples for refeeds - Fiddle Faddle and the Quakers Flavored Mini Rice Cakes. Chocolate especially. [/quote]

Fat free ice cream wrecks me. I think its the fiber and all the other shit they add to it. When ever I eat too much fat free ice cream during my refeed I bloat and can’t hit my predicted CHO #'s. Edy’s fat free ice cream is the devil.