alright, so I weighed in at 174 today, which is one pound above my baseline the morning of my refeed saturday. visibly, I’m at least as lean as I was that morning, possibly slightly leaner even. And 4 more days of solid fat loss till my next refeed! I’m sold.
Ok so after reading most of the posts on here, I decided to give this a go. Shelby Starnes wrote an article over at Elite specifically for an MMA athlete. Although I don’t have any upcoming fights, I primarily train MMA as my main form of exercise with 2-3 days of strength and conditioning workouts (kind of like crossfit but more grappling specific). Didn’t really realize how fat I have gotten and need to try to lean out. Here are the numbers according to Starnes’ article.
My Weight: 173lbs. (I based #s on 170lbs.)
High day
Carbs: 2-3 grams per pound of body weight (340g)
Protein: 1-1.5 grams per pound of body weight (212.5)
Fat: as little as possible
Per Meal (6): 56g CHO, 35g PRO
Total: 340g CHO, 212.5g PRO
1360cals/CHO, 850cals/PRO = 2210 cals
Low and moderate days
Carbs: 0.5-1.5 grams per pound of body weight (85)
Protein: 1.25-1.75 grams per pound of body weight (255g)
Fat: 0.25-0.5 grams per pound of body weight (42.5-85)
Per Meal (6): 14g CHO, 42g PRO, 7-14g FAT
Total: 85g CHO, 255g PRO, 42.5-85g FAT
340cals/CHO, 1020/PRO, 382.5-765/FAT = 1742.5-2125cals
Plan on doing 2 high days a week, most likely on Monday (Strength/BJJinGi/Sparring) and possibly Thursday or Friday. Any input is appreciated.
[quote]Mdougherty40 wrote:
Ok so after reading most of the posts on here, I decided to give this a go. Shelby Starnes wrote an article over at Elite specifically for an MMA athlete. Although I don’t have any upcoming fights, I primarily train MMA as my main form of exercise with 2-3 days of strength and conditioning workouts (kind of like crossfit but more grappling specific). Didn’t really realize how fat I have gotten and need to try to lean out. Here are the numbers according to Starnes’ article.
My Weight: 173lbs. (I based #s on 170lbs.)
High day
Carbs: 2-3 grams per pound of body weight (340g)
Protein: 1-1.5 grams per pound of body weight (212.5)
Fat: as little as possible
Per Meal (6): 56g CHO, 35g PRO
Total: 340g CHO, 212.5g PRO
1360cals/CHO, 850cals/PRO = 2210 cals
Low and moderate days
Carbs: 0.5-1.5 grams per pound of body weight (85)
Protein: 1.25-1.75 grams per pound of body weight (255g)
Fat: 0.25-0.5 grams per pound of body weight (42.5-85)
Per Meal (6): 14g CHO, 42g PRO, 7-14g FAT
Total: 85g CHO, 255g PRO, 42.5-85g FAT
340cals/CHO, 1020/PRO, 382.5-765/FAT = 1742.5-2125cals
Plan on doing 2 high days a week, most likely on Monday (Strength/BJJinGi/Sparring) and possibly Thursday or Friday. Any input is appreciated.
[/quote]
Welcome aboard! Glad you decided to take the plunge. The water is very pleasant 
Starnes for sure knows what he’s doing. That’s really sweet you train for MMA, what are the workouts like?
Just so you know, the kcal you have calculated will end up a few hundred higher because of the fats you’ll be consuming with your meals…as long as you keep them healthy and natural, you’ll be good to go. How many high/moderate/low days have you determined and which days will correspond with your workouts?
Opps.. had this in the wrong thread… anyway
A little back story… I just came off of the V-Diet a couple weeks ago. I lost around 13-14lbs and really tightened everything up. Last year I tore my quad and then after that healed I bruised my Tibia/fibia really bad, so I gained around 30lbs of fat over the year. Still working on getting that squat/deadlift back up close to 500. I gained lots of muscle in my upper body tho haha.
Im about 220 right now, just shy of 20% body fat, 5’8, and 29. I workout 6 days a week, plus playing flag football for about 2 hours on Sunday.
From using the spreadsheet(thanks it rocks!), it just seems like a TON of carbs. I put in 1.6 for activity, and dropped bodytype/goal to -20% since I do want to get back down to around ~195/10% bf again, no hurry tho.
Here is what I came up with:
330g of protein
34g of fat
High: 2999 343 carbs
Med 2724 275 carbs
Low 2449 206 carbs
For a low day Im going with
8:30 - 1/2 cup rolled oats, 2 scoop Low-Carb Metabolic Drive
10:00 - hit the gym
1130-12 - 3 cup OJ, 1 cup blueberries, 100g of banana,3x LC mbd
14:30 -170g chicken breast, 3/4 cup brown rice
17:30 -same as above
20:30 -200g grass feed beef, 200g broccoli
23:30 -2 scope low carb mbd
also, ~8 fish oil caps a day.
For medium days I add 100g sweet potato to 1 chicken/brown rice meal and for high days I add 100g sweet potato to both of the chicken meals.
Anyway, questions, comments, thoughts,etc?
[quote]lostmojo wrote:
Opps.. had this in the wrong thread… anyway
A little back story… I just came off of the V-Diet a couple weeks ago. I lost around 13-14lbs and really tightened everything up. Last year I tore my quad and then after that healed I bruised my Tibia/fibia really bad, so I gained around 30lbs of fat over the year. Still working on getting that squat/deadlift back up close to 500. I gained lots of muscle in my upper body tho haha.
Im about 220 right now, just shy of 20% body fat, 5’8, and 29. I workout 6 days a week, plus playing flag football for about 2 hours on Sunday.
From using the spreadsheet(thanks it rocks!), it just seems like a TON of carbs. I put in 1.6 for activity, and dropped bodytype/goal to -20% since I do want to get back down to around ~195/10% bf again, no hurry tho.
Here is what I came up with:
330g of protein
34g of fat
High: 2999 343 carbs
Med 2724 275 carbs
Low 2449 206 carbs
For a low day Im going with
8:30 - 1/2 cup rolled oats, 2 scoop Low-Carb Metabolic Drive
10:00 - hit the gym
1130-12 - 3 cup OJ, 1 cup blueberries, 100g of banana,3x LC mbd
14:30 -170g chicken breast, 3/4 cup brown rice
17:30 -same as above
20:30 -200g grass feed beef, 200g broccoli
23:30 -2 scope low carb mbd
also, ~8 fish oil caps a day.
For medium days I add 100g sweet potato to 1 chicken/brown rice meal and for high days I add 100g sweet potato to both of the chicken meals.
Anyway, questions, comments, thoughts,etc? [/quote]
If it was me I would lower the carbs on your low and moderate days. What are you goals? Are you trying to lose fat or gain muscle? If fat loss is your goal I would drop to a maximum of 100g on low days and maybe 175 on medium days.
Welcome aboard! Glad you decided to take the plunge. The water is very pleasant
Starnes for sure knows what he’s doing. That’s really sweet you train for MMA, what are the workouts like?
Just so you know, the kcal you have calculated will end up a few hundred higher because of the fats you’ll be consuming with your meals…as long as you keep them healthy and natural, you’ll be good to go. How many high/moderate/low days have you determined and which days will correspond with your workouts?[/quote]
Well, I decided to stop doing the strength class 3 days a week and train them one day a week along with my own gym workouts 2-3 days a week. I noticed in some recent pics that I seem to be losing muscle mass without my bodyweight changing which is scary considering I never have been ultra lean so know I feel kind of skinny fat! Our workouts consist of tire flips, pull-ups, push-ups, running, sleds, sledges, etc. We train BJJ for an hour in GI on M/W/F then spar each one of those nights either kickboxing only or MMA. On Tuesdays I get out of class(gradschool)early and am going to weight train on my own, recover for 3 hours then go BJJ NOGI followed by Muay Thai technique and drill class. This along with Friday will be my high days. Today was day one and my totals are: 1861kcal, 63Fat, 66.2 CHO,272.6 PRO
I did a quick gym workout, NOGI BJJ with 4/4min rounds sparring, and pad work/drills in Muay Thai. Thanks for the response.
MD
[quote]ajweins wrote:
lostmojo wrote:
SNIP*****
anana,3x LC mbd
14:30 -170g chicken breast, 3/4 cup brown rice
17:30 -same as above
20:30 -200g grass feed beef, 200g broccoli
23:30 -2 scope low carb mbd
also, ~8 fish oil caps a day.
Anyway, questions, comments, thoughts,etc?
If it was me I would lower the carbs on your low and moderate days. What are you goals? Are you trying to lose fat or gain muscle? If fat loss is your goal I would drop to a maximum of 100g on low days and maybe 175 on medium days. [/quote]
Thats about what I was thinking when I was discussing it with a friend. The values just seemed way to high. My goal at the moment is to slowly drop the weight. err WITH, hopefully gaining some back in my legs.
I’ll have to play with numbers, but maybe around, <100g for low, 150-175g for med, and 200g for high?
Cheers, thanks for the input.
That sounds better. Depends on how many high days you have. I would guess you could go up to at least 300 grams of carbs if you only have one high carb day per week.
[quote]ajweins wrote:
That sounds better. Depends on how many high days you have. I would guess you could go up to at least 300 grams of carbs if you only have one high carb day per week.[/quote]
I was going to go with 2. But now that I’m thinking about it, 1 would prob be best until I get below 200 again. Prob high on squat day, 2 med for bench/deadlift days , and then low for the rest.
So around 100g for low, 150-175 for med, 250-275 for high.
edit: numbers.
[quote]ajweins wrote:
That sounds better. Depends on how many high days you have. I would guess you could go up to at least 300 grams of carbs if you only have one high carb day per week.[/quote]
X2, either that or you can follow what a few of us have been doing and just keep all of your days low during the week and load up with a super high day (4-6g CHO/lb lean body mass). My refeeds (super high days) give me plenty of energy for my weekly workouts and as long as you’re getting enough protein, you should be fine and won’t have to worry about losing lean mass. I’ve been consistently losing ~1-2 lbs of fat a week even with the huge refeeds because I’ve been very strict on weekdays. Keep the volume low and weight high on your workouts for less muscle stress, especially when you’re carb depleted.
[quote]phatkins187 wrote:
ajweins wrote:
That sounds better. Depends on how many high days you have. I would guess you could go up to at least 300 grams of carbs if you only have one high carb day per week.
X2, either that or you can follow what a few of us have been doing and just keep all of your days low during the week and load up with a super high day (4-6g CHO/lb lean body mass). My refeeds (super high days) give me plenty of energy for my weekly workouts and as long as you’re getting enough protein, you should be fine and won’t have to worry about losing lean mass. I’ve been consistently losing ~1-2 lbs of fat a week even with the huge refeeds because I’ve been very strict on weekdays. Keep the volume low and weight high on your workouts for less muscle stress, especially when you’re carb depleted.[/quote]
hey phatty, how low are you keeping carbs during the week to prep for the weekend? Are you doing essentially no carbs at all to ensure carb depletion, or do you have moderate days thrown in there as well?
on a side note, weighed in at 172.4 today, which is 1/2 lb below my baseline. So took about 3 days post-refeed to get back to where I was.
[quote]spadesofaces wrote:
phatkins187 wrote:
ajweins wrote:
That sounds better. Depends on how many high days you have. I would guess you could go up to at least 300 grams of carbs if you only have one high carb day per week.
X2, either that or you can follow what a few of us have been doing and just keep all of your days low during the week and load up with a super high day (4-6g CHO/lb lean body mass). My refeeds (super high days) give me plenty of energy for my weekly workouts and as long as you’re getting enough protein, you should be fine and won’t have to worry about losing lean mass. I’ve been consistently losing ~1-2 lbs of fat a week even with the huge refeeds because I’ve been very strict on weekdays. Keep the volume low and weight high on your workouts for less muscle stress, especially when you’re carb depleted.
hey phatty, how low are you keeping carbs during the week to prep for the weekend? Are you doing essentially no carbs at all to ensure carb depletion, or do you have moderate days thrown in there as well?
on a side note, weighed in at 172.4 today, which is 1/2 lb below my baseline. So took about 3 days post-refeed to get back to where I was. [/quote]
Spades I log all of my foods on fitday and you can read my journals, past and present at phatkins187 - free online diet and fitness journal
I keep the CHO between 30-50g during the week…very low! All of my carbs come from fibrous vegetables and nuts. The veggies are great for keepin’ the pipes clear. I season them with Molly McButter cheese flavoring and really grub on the broccoli and cauliflower at least 2-4 servings a day.
The low carbs really make you earn your refeed and blast fat away during the week. That’s great you’re below baseline already! Again, I’ve found that as long as what you’re doing works and you’re happy, don’t change it! But for an added kick to the metabolism, add in cardio.
I hit baseline this morning too so I hope melt off another 1-2 lbs. by Saturday morning.
My approach is very similar to phatkins. Basically I eat about 6 meals a day, eating only lean meats, green veggies, and healthy fats (EVOO, nuts, flax, fish oil, etc). This usually puts me at around 30-40 CHO on non-lifting days. On lifting days I eat the exact same thing, only adding a post-workout shake. This puts lifting days (3 days a week) at about 65-70 CHO. Friday is my refeed day and I hit about 450-500 CHO. Everything is very simple, and after the first week you don’t really have to count calories and macros once you get an idea of how you’re eating.
I have included 1/2 cup oats with eggs in morning and an orange midday and am still under 80g of CHO. What do you guys think, should I go completely low or give it a week and see what happens? My refeed is going to be approximately 340g CHO. Do you guys get these from clean sources or what? Typically I have always been carb-o-phobic and got all my CHO from fruits/veggies, but I am curious to see what happens if I include other foods. Any Input or stick to clean foods?
MD
Mine are clean for the most part. Whole grain pancakes, oatmeal, pasta, sweet potatoes, etc. But I do have a bowl or 2 of fat free ice cream on my carb up day. I don’t really eat veggies that much during the carb up day. I eat plenty of them during the week, and I’m usually too full anyway.
[quote]Mdougherty40 wrote:
I have included 1/2 cup oats with eggs in morning and an orange midday and am still under 80g of CHO. What do you guys think, should I go completely low or give it a week and see what happens? My refeed is going to be approximately 340g CHO. Do you guys get these from clean sources or what? Typically I have always been carb-o-phobic and got all my CHO from fruits/veggies, but I am curious to see what happens if I include other foods. Any Input or stick to clean foods?
MD[/quote]
I’d recommend you stick with your initial plan and experiment for a couple of weeks…the scale might not be a good way to measure progress though, unless you’re only weighing once a week. Tape measure for sure!
Your refeed should be fine if you decide to keep those CHO in during the week…Hulk and mine are a bit higher (at least 4g CHO/lb of LBM) because our carbs are very low and we deplete the shit out of our glycogen stores during the week. I’m doing cardio 6 days a week and TBT 3 times…taking this cut seriously.
In terms of carb sources…it doesn’t hurt to keep them from fairly clean sources but simple sugars and some higher GI carbs early in your refeed are fine, especially if it’s around your workout. Take a look at my fitday profile for last Saturday and you’ll see that the only clear CHO were from grape nuts and fruit…the rest were cookies, frozen yogurt, candy…yeah, pretty awesome.
thanks for the feedback man. Thats exactly why I asked in the first place- trying to determine how low I need to go to really earn the carb ups. I’m doing moderate cardio after all my lifting sessions for ~20 mins, and fasted cardio every other day or so for about ~20 mins as well. I think I might cut out the peri workout carbs a day or two before the refeed to make sure I’m depleted, but otherwise so far so good.
With another carb up comin up, ive been lookin around for good low-fat high carb snacks. Problem is, everything carby also seems to have a decent amount of fat as well, short of plain bread. What are your guys’ favorite carb up snacks so far?
I don’t know the words for it, but how important is a “jump starting” phase. What I mean is, should one go low carb for a week or 2 before doing carb cycling?
Thanks.
[quote]spadesofaces wrote:
thanks for the feedback man. Thats exactly why I asked in the first place- trying to determine how low I need to go to really earn the carb ups. I’m doing moderate cardio after all my lifting sessions for ~20 mins, and fasted cardio every other day or so for about ~20 mins as well. I think I might cut out the peri workout carbs a day or two before the refeed to make sure I’m depleted, but otherwise so far so good.
With another carb up comin up, ive been lookin around for good low-fat high carb snacks. Problem is, everything carby also seems to have a decent amount of fat as well, short of plain bread. What are your guys’ favorite carb up snacks so far?[/quote]
Oh man the low fat craze is alive and well my friend! Just browse any cookie, cracker, cereal, dessert, frozen food aisle in the grocery store and you’ll find all kinds of deliciousness to get your share of carbs with. Fruits, yogurts, potatoes, yams, oats, rice, bagels, are lower GI carbs but try to get whatever you can to keep the insulin high during the refeed day. Look back in the thread for some of elusive and ajwein’s epic refeed menus for more ideas.
Totals for today:
Cals: 1,798
Fat: 67.5
CHO: 83.1
PRO: 226.9
Again, this is probably a relatively normal day for me excluding about 50-60g of CHO and a lot more PRO than I have been taking in recently. Trained BJJ GI, Sparring, then some extra pad work to work on cardio. I’m refeeding Friday and am going to include a cup of oats in the morning (oats/egg pancake), probably a little more fruit and depending on my craving possibly some low-fat ice cream.
Other than that I think during the day I’m going to eat my normal share of fruit that I have been cutting out. The ice-cream would come at night after a heavy sparring (both in GI for an hour and MMA for at least 4-5 rounds) practice with some Metabolic Drive thrown in. Thoughts?
MD