Carb Back Loading

Nutrition
1082

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]louiek wrote:

[quote]wiggles wrote:

[quote]louiek wrote:

[quote]Siouxfan wrote:

[quote]louiek wrote:
Not trying to be off topic: Is there any way to get on a carb-backloading diet without purchasing the $80 book? Anywhere I can read some of his work or get some more information?

Right now I drink coffee before 12, eat protein 12-5, workout at 5, and after my workout have carbs for the rest of the day. Started experimenting with that eating style because I read about it on EliteFTS and a couple other sites. It’s actually working just fine, but it’s obviously not the real diet plan, and I really don’t have the cash for the book.[/quote]

You should be able to piece together the diet from this forum. You’re pretty much doing it now anyway. The only thing I could think to change is to have a PWO shake one hour after your workout. Make sure it consists of 50g protein and 40g high GI carbs. An hour after that then start the carb backload. But don’t do it all night. A 4 hour window works well. [/quote]

I’ll read this thread then, thanks.

So would something like this work?

awake-12p - coffee (black)
12-5 - protein (chicken & cheeseburgers)
5-6 - workout (usually 1hr30min)
6-7 - PWO shake (bananas, little protein)
7-11 - carbs (white rice, potatoes, yams)
11-sleep - protein(?)/water

Then on “off” days, it’d be the same thing, except maybe less carbs and no PWO meal? I don’t really have off days. All off days involve some type of conditioning or sled pulling.[/quote]

What is your goal? And your training like? You wouldn’t backload after conditioning work unless you’re trying to gain weight, just so you know.[/quote]

Goal is strength gain. Training schedule is this:

sun - ME lower
mon - morning: sled pulling lower body - night: ME upper
tue - sled pulling upper body
wed - DE lower + forearms
thurs - sled pulling lower body
fri - C&J + upper body assistance
sat - sled pulling upper body

Not planning on loading up on carbs on my “off” days.[/quote]

then your schedule looks good. [/quote]

Minus the cheeseburgers pre workout.

1083

[quote]Siouxfan wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]louiek wrote:

[quote]wiggles wrote:

[quote]louiek wrote:

[quote]Siouxfan wrote:

[quote]louiek wrote:
Not trying to be off topic: Is there any way to get on a carb-backloading diet without purchasing the $80 book? Anywhere I can read some of his work or get some more information?

Right now I drink coffee before 12, eat protein 12-5, workout at 5, and after my workout have carbs for the rest of the day. Started experimenting with that eating style because I read about it on EliteFTS and a couple other sites. It’s actually working just fine, but it’s obviously not the real diet plan, and I really don’t have the cash for the book.[/quote]

You should be able to piece together the diet from this forum. You’re pretty much doing it now anyway. The only thing I could think to change is to have a PWO shake one hour after your workout. Make sure it consists of 50g protein and 40g high GI carbs. An hour after that then start the carb backload. But don’t do it all night. A 4 hour window works well. [/quote]

I’ll read this thread then, thanks.

So would something like this work?

awake-12p - coffee (black)
12-5 - protein (chicken & cheeseburgers)
5-6 - workout (usually 1hr30min)
6-7 - PWO shake (bananas, little protein)
7-11 - carbs (white rice, potatoes, yams)
11-sleep - protein(?)/water

Then on “off” days, it’d be the same thing, except maybe less carbs and no PWO meal? I don’t really have off days. All off days involve some type of conditioning or sled pulling.[/quote]

What is your goal? And your training like? You wouldn’t backload after conditioning work unless you’re trying to gain weight, just so you know.[/quote]

Goal is strength gain. Training schedule is this:

sun - ME lower
mon - morning: sled pulling lower body - night: ME upper
tue - sled pulling upper body
wed - DE lower + forearms
thurs - sled pulling lower body
fri - C&J + upper body assistance
sat - sled pulling upper body

Not planning on loading up on carbs on my “off” days.[/quote]

then your schedule looks good. [/quote]

Minus the cheeseburgers pre workout. [/quote]

Less fat before workout?

1084

[i]Diet Talk
By Vincent DizenzoPublished: June 14, 2012

Well, my body weight crept up quickly on me. I hit my lunk alarm of 290 pounds. It’s amazing how quickly I can pack on weight. [b]I was very consistent with my diet during the day with eating just protein and fats. It’s in the evenings when I was grazing more than I should.

Backloading
[/b]
Following backloading, you can be more liberal in the evening after you train. I clearly was too liberal. Part of it is eating out more than I should. You just can’t control those calories. In addition, during my non-backloading nights, I was taking in more carbs than I should. I throw in some pretzels here and there. Maybe a pudding cup. These aren’t terrible snacks, but they add up and defeat the purpose of backloading.

So, I started thinking about making big changes in my diet or switching up programs completely. Then, I thought ‘How about just following the diet you’re on?’ With that, I made a promise to not go off my diet for a week and see what happens.[/i]

funny. even the pros under kiefers watch are getting fat if they eat too much. i truly think kiefer blew it out of proportion. “eat cherry turnovers without getting fat. pasta and rice are bad. eat high glycemic only.”

for the record, i do not blame kiefer. i blame myself for overdoing it.

1085

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
20min after i have 5g of leucine. Then 20min after that commence eating. All times are approximate as my scheudle changes but thats close to the timing. Specific timing is majoring in the minors IMO.[/quote]

Ryan I remember you saying you were gonna withhold carbs for as long as possible after workouts, as that help with insulin sensitivity. Do you not do that anymore?

1086

[quote]pndpmt wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
20min after i have 5g of leucine. Then 20min after that commence eating. All times are approximate as my scheudle changes but thats close to the timing. Specific timing is majoring in the minors IMO.[/quote]

Ryan I remember you saying you were gonna withhold carbs for as long as possible after workouts, as that help with insulin sensitivity. Do you not do that anymore?[/quote]

I PM’d him about this. He told me he had little energy after his workouts when he did them in the morning and delayed carbs till night. So he has gone back to his usual CBL inspired plan.

1087

[quote]Siouxfan wrote:

[quote]louiek wrote:
Not trying to be off topic: Is there any way to get on a carb-backloading diet without purchasing the $80 book? Anywhere I can read some of his work or get some more information?

Right now I drink coffee before 12, eat protein 12-5, workout at 5, and after my workout have carbs for the rest of the day. Started experimenting with that eating style because I read about it on EliteFTS and a couple other sites. It’s actually working just fine, but it’s obviously not the real diet plan, and I really don’t have the cash for the book.[/quote]

You should be able to piece together the diet from this forum. You’re pretty much doing it now anyway. The only thing I could think to change is to have a PWO shake one hour after your workout. Make sure it consists of 50g protein and 40g high GI carbs. An hour after that then start the carb backload. But don’t do it all night. A 4 hour window works well. [/quote]

Why the 4-hour window? Just curious.

1088

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:

[quote]Siouxfan wrote:

[quote]louiek wrote:
Not trying to be off topic: Is there any way to get on a carb-backloading diet without purchasing the $80 book? Anywhere I can read some of his work or get some more information?

Right now I drink coffee before 12, eat protein 12-5, workout at 5, and after my workout have carbs for the rest of the day. Started experimenting with that eating style because I read about it on EliteFTS and a couple other sites. It’s actually working just fine, but it’s obviously not the real diet plan, and I really don’t have the cash for the book.[/quote]

You should be able to piece together the diet from this forum. You’re pretty much doing it now anyway. The only thing I could think to change is to have a PWO shake one hour after your workout. Make sure it consists of 50g protein and 40g high GI carbs. An hour after that then start the carb backload. But don’t do it all night. A 4 hour window works well. [/quote]

Why the 4-hour window? Just curious.[/quote]

Just a general guideline. Keeps you from eating pizza and ice cream till you fall asleep with cheese on your chest. The shorter window should help keep the shit eating shorter.

1089

[quote]louiek wrote:

[quote]Siouxfan wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]louiek wrote:

[quote]wiggles wrote:

[quote]louiek wrote:

[quote]Siouxfan wrote:

[quote]louiek wrote:
Not trying to be off topic: Is there any way to get on a carb-backloading diet without purchasing the $80 book? Anywhere I can read some of his work or get some more information?

Right now I drink coffee before 12, eat protein 12-5, workout at 5, and after my workout have carbs for the rest of the day. Started experimenting with that eating style because I read about it on EliteFTS and a couple other sites. It’s actually working just fine, but it’s obviously not the real diet plan, and I really don’t have the cash for the book.[/quote]

You should be able to piece together the diet from this forum. You’re pretty much doing it now anyway. The only thing I could think to change is to have a PWO shake one hour after your workout. Make sure it consists of 50g protein and 40g high GI carbs. An hour after that then start the carb backload. But don’t do it all night. A 4 hour window works well. [/quote]

I’ll read this thread then, thanks.

So would something like this work?

awake-12p - coffee (black)
12-5 - protein (chicken & cheeseburgers)
5-6 - workout (usually 1hr30min)
6-7 - PWO shake (bananas, little protein)
7-11 - carbs (white rice, potatoes, yams)
11-sleep - protein(?)/water

Then on “off” days, it’d be the same thing, except maybe less carbs and no PWO meal? I don’t really have off days. All off days involve some type of conditioning or sled pulling.[/quote]

What is your goal? And your training like? You wouldn’t backload after conditioning work unless you’re trying to gain weight, just so you know.[/quote]

Goal is strength gain. Training schedule is this:

sun - ME lower
mon - morning: sled pulling lower body - night: ME upper
tue - sled pulling upper body
wed - DE lower + forearms
thurs - sled pulling lower body
fri - C&J + upper body assistance
sat - sled pulling upper body

Not planning on loading up on carbs on my “off” days.[/quote]

then your schedule looks good. [/quote]

Minus the cheeseburgers pre workout. [/quote]

Less fat before workout?[/quote]

Fat is good. But a cheeseburger comes with a bun, and ketchup etc. Unless you didn’t mean cheeseburger?

1090

[quote]Siouxfan wrote:
Just a general guideline. Keeps you from eating pizza and ice cream till you fall asleep with cheese on your chest. The shorter window should help keep the shit eating shorter.
[/quote]

Oh, shit, was I not supposed to do that? Well FUCK THIS DIET.

[quote]Siouxfan wrote:
Fat is good. But a cheeseburger comes with a bun, and ketchup etc. Unless you didn’t mean cheeseburger?
[/quote]

.5-1lb of beef with a slice of cheese and some salt.

1091

[quote]louiek wrote:

[quote]Siouxfan wrote:
Just a general guideline. Keeps you from eating pizza and ice cream till you fall asleep with cheese on your chest. The shorter window should help keep the shit eating shorter.
[/quote]

Oh, shit, was I not supposed to do that? Well FUCK THIS DIET.

[quote]Siouxfan wrote:
Fat is good. But a cheeseburger comes with a bun, and ketchup etc. Unless you didn’t mean cheeseburger?
[/quote]

.5-1lb of beef with a slice of cheese and some salt.[/quote]

Right, so a patty with cheese. Yeah those are good. And a night or two a week you can try eating till you pass out. I’ve done it after leg days lol

1092

[quote]pndpmt wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
20min after i have 5g of leucine. Then 20min after that commence eating. All times are approximate as my scheudle changes but thats close to the timing. Specific timing is majoring in the minors IMO.[/quote]

Ryan I remember you saying you were gonna withhold carbs for as long as possible after workouts, as that help with insulin sensitivity. Do you not do that anymore?[/quote]

For that to work your workotus cant be in the insane volume level. Mine are. i am just too addicted to high volume workouts right now.

The problem with a high volume workout and not replenishing glycogen right away is the body wants to do that because you depleted so much so it will hold off on doing anything else until they are replenished.

A better approach would be lower volume so at to not completely wipe out glycogen adn then the body will be fine and rebuild and repair even without refilling the glycogen but you will get the added beneifit of a large increase in insulin sensitivty the longer you with hold the carbs. Or at least that is the hypothesis and anecdotal evidence of a group of ppl on a diff board. (a very well respected one though)

1093

[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:
“eat cherry turnovers without getting fat. pasta and rice are bad. eat high glycemic only.”
[/quote]
Isn’t rice high glycemic? Why would it be bad for backloading? I just bought 5 pounds of it.

1094

[quote]Siouxfan wrote:
You should be able to piece together the diet from this forum. You’re pretty much doing it now anyway. The only thing I could think to change is to have a PWO shake one hour after your workout. Make sure it consists of 50g protein and 40g high GI carbs. An hour after that then start the carb backload. But don’t do it all night. A 4 hour window works well. [/quote]

Is there any reason why 40g carbs one hour after your workout? I guess I’ve been doing it wrong and having like a cup of rice. (about 150 to 200g of carbs right after working out)

Although I suspect I’m doing the whole thing wrong as I’m only having that one meal with carbs (PWO meal) and the meals afterward are little to no carbs, mostly fats and protein.

1095

[quote]Grimlorn wrote:

[quote]Siouxfan wrote:
You should be able to piece together the diet from this forum. You’re pretty much doing it now anyway. The only thing I could think to change is to have a PWO shake one hour after your workout. Make sure it consists of 50g protein and 40g high GI carbs. An hour after that then start the carb backload. But don’t do it all night. A 4 hour window works well. [/quote]

Is there any reason why 40g carbs one hour after your workout? I guess I’ve been doing it wrong and having like a cup of rice. (about 150 to 200g of carbs right after working out)

Although I suspect I’m doing the whole thing wrong as I’m only having that one meal with carbs (PWO meal) and the meals afterward are little to no carbs, mostly fats and protein.[/quote]

Have you been getting the results you want in terms of strength and or size/BF?

1096

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]Grimlorn wrote:

[quote]Siouxfan wrote:
You should be able to piece together the diet from this forum. You’re pretty much doing it now anyway. The only thing I could think to change is to have a PWO shake one hour after your workout. Make sure it consists of 50g protein and 40g high GI carbs. An hour after that then start the carb backload. But don’t do it all night. A 4 hour window works well. [/quote]

Is there any reason why 40g carbs one hour after your workout? I guess I’ve been doing it wrong and having like a cup of rice. (about 150 to 200g of carbs right after working out)

Although I suspect I’m doing the whole thing wrong as I’m only having that one meal with carbs (PWO meal) and the meals afterward are little to no carbs, mostly fats and protein.[/quote]

Have you been getting the results you want in terms of strength and or size/BF?[/quote]
Kind of. I’ve been primarily doing IM fasting and CBLing after working out. I’m still experimenting with CBL. I’m also on the EC stack. I’ve been feeling awful though. I lost like 5 pounds my first week, basically stalled on the second and third week and lost 4 pounds in a few days into the 4th week. My weight loss is pretty sporadic. I’m a bit concerned.

I’m just always looking to improve my diet and do things better. I’m guessing you don’t absorb 200g carbs PWO and that’s the reason you only consume 40g PWO and start loading an hour after that. I think I’ve misunderstood the diet.

1097

[quote]Grimlorn wrote:

[quote]Siouxfan wrote:
You should be able to piece together the diet from this forum. You’re pretty much doing it now anyway. The only thing I could think to change is to have a PWO shake one hour after your workout. Make sure it consists of 50g protein and 40g high GI carbs. An hour after that then start the carb backload. But don’t do it all night. A 4 hour window works well. [/quote]

Is there any reason why 40g carbs one hour after your workout? I guess I’ve been doing it wrong and having like a cup of rice. (about 150 to 200g of carbs right after working out)

Although I suspect I’m doing the whole thing wrong as I’m only having that one meal with carbs (PWO meal) and the meals afterward are little to no carbs, mostly fats and protein.[/quote]

Supposedly it’s to allow your muscles to absorb the Free Fatty Acids released from training. Am I right about that Ryan?

1098

[quote]Grimlorn wrote:

[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:
“eat cherry turnovers without getting fat. pasta and rice are bad. eat high glycemic only.”
[/quote]
Isn’t rice high glycemic? Why would it be bad for backloading? I just bought 5 pounds of it.[/quote]

White rice, or sticky rice is high GI

1099

Louiek, that should work fine with the diet plan you outlined. Keep rough track of how many carbs you take in and how you feel. Each person has a sweet spot with this, and mine is around 450-500g of carbs following training days and more like 350 or so on non-training days (doing density bulk to gain weight). I personally can’t eat that amount of carbs from clean sources (completely lose appetite trying to) but if I add it some dirtier stuff I tend to do alright.

Again, it’s all within reasonable amounts. If I want a 2L of orange soda, I’m going to have it. Is it optimal? No, the fructose isn’t a solid choice according to Kiefer. Do I do this every night? Hell no. Is it fun as hell? Damn right, when I have it.

1100

[quote]Siouxfan wrote:

[quote]Grimlorn wrote:

[quote]Siouxfan wrote:
You should be able to piece together the diet from this forum. You’re pretty much doing it now anyway. The only thing I could think to change is to have a PWO shake one hour after your workout. Make sure it consists of 50g protein and 40g high GI carbs. An hour after that then start the carb backload. But don’t do it all night. A 4 hour window works well. [/quote]

Is there any reason why 40g carbs one hour after your workout? I guess I’ve been doing it wrong and having like a cup of rice. (about 150 to 200g of carbs right after working out)

Although I suspect I’m doing the whole thing wrong as I’m only having that one meal with carbs (PWO meal) and the meals afterward are little to no carbs, mostly fats and protein.[/quote]

Supposedly it’s to allow your muscles to absorb the Free Fatty Acids released from training. Am I right about that Ryan?[/quote]

As far as i know that is the theory/thought process.

1101

I quit CBL!

After being on a low-to-no-carb eating plan for a few months prior to switching to CBL, I find that the addition of carbs has has a negative effect on my appearance. Not only am I not enjoying the awful bloated feeling for several hours after my backload starts, but I’ve actually noticed some fat gain on my pecs that has never been a problem before - mostly around nipples. :frowning:
On top of this, I’m not at an optimal “headspace” for training late in the day (having trained quite well around noon for a couple of years now).

I do, however, enjoy NOT having to eat breakfast first thing upon waking.

Good luck with your CBL, guys, and thanks for the help and info with my own CBL experiment.

I guess this old dwarf is one of the few who don’t respond well to CBL.