[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
but I’ve actually noticed some fat gain on my pecs that has never been a problem before - mostly around nipples. 
[/quote]
LOL i get that too from CBL but i figured it was just from water retention from high carbs combined with naturally high estrogen.
Anyone CBL without eating wheat products, and if so, what do your backloads typically consist of?
I’ll sometimes have nachos with corn chips; or a burrito bowl (no tortilla) from Chipotle with extra rice; corn tortillas, and things like that but I find myself eating garbage just to get carbs in, if I don’t have any of those choices available.
[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
but I’ve actually noticed some fat gain on my pecs that has never been a problem before - mostly around nipples.
[/quote]
LOL i get that too from CBL but i figured it was just from water retention from high carbs combined with naturally high estrogen.[/quote]
Water? I hadn’t thought of that.
But what would be the cause of the naturally high estrogen you speak of?
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
but I’ve actually noticed some fat gain on my pecs that has never been a problem before - mostly around nipples.
[/quote]
LOL i get that too from CBL but i figured it was just from water retention from high carbs combined with naturally high estrogen.[/quote]
Water? I hadn’t thought of that.
But what would be the cause of the naturally high estrogen you speak of?[/quote]
no idea. i cant figure it out. could be because the aromatase enzyme is highly active in fat tissue and ive never been under 14% body fat in my life. high estrogen makes it hard to lose fat, fat makes your estrogen high, its a vicious cycle. i just take supplements that decrease estrogen and help mask the problem 
ive read some stuff that says wheat products increase estrogen, which would make sense because when i backload its with alot of sugary cereals, cookies, cakes, pastries, bread etc.
[quote]inkaddict wrote:
Anyone CBL without eating wheat products, and if so, what do your backloads typically consist of?
I’ll sometimes have nachos with corn chips; or a burrito bowl (no tortilla) from Chipotle with extra rice; corn tortillas, and things like that but I find myself eating garbage just to get carbs in, if I don’t have any of those choices available.
[/quote]
I use a ton of rice, either Basmati or Jasmine. Potatoes to mix things up and also rice noddles. When I had them I ate some finibars, which anyone who has had them knows the flavor makes them go down easy haha. I drink a lot of waxy maize. Every once and a while I might get subway or something like that. When ice cream goes on sale I use that sometimes. For 90% of the time I am wheat free.
I personally notice a difference if I eat a lot of shit versus rice/potatoes/waxymaize.
I like corn chips too, if I ever get them the bag never lasts longer than the night haha.
[quote]StateOfPsychosis wrote:
[quote]inkaddict wrote:
Anyone CBL without eating wheat products, and if so, what do your backloads typically consist of?
I’ll sometimes have nachos with corn chips; or a burrito bowl (no tortilla) from Chipotle with extra rice; corn tortillas, and things like that but I find myself eating garbage just to get carbs in, if I don’t have any of those choices available.
[/quote]
I use a ton of rice, either Basmati or Jasmine. Potatoes to mix things up and also rice noddles. When I had them I ate some finibars, which anyone who has had them knows the flavor makes them go down easy haha. I drink a lot of waxy maize. Every once and a while I might get subway or something like that. When ice cream goes on sale I use that sometimes. For 90% of the time I am wheat free.
I personally notice a difference if I eat a lot of shit versus rice/potatoes/waxymaize.
I like corn chips too, if I ever get them the bag never lasts longer than the night haha.[/quote]
Can I ask the positives to excluding wheat out of the diet? Like I know LOLiquin says people cut wheat/gluten out and lose like over 9000% bf in 30 seconds, but have ya’ll noticed a difference in body comp?
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
[quote]StateOfPsychosis wrote:
[quote]inkaddict wrote:
Anyone CBL without eating wheat products, and if so, what do your backloads typically consist of?
I’ll sometimes have nachos with corn chips; or a burrito bowl (no tortilla) from Chipotle with extra rice; corn tortillas, and things like that but I find myself eating garbage just to get carbs in, if I don’t have any of those choices available.
[/quote]
I use a ton of rice, either Basmati or Jasmine. Potatoes to mix things up and also rice noddles. When I had them I ate some finibars, which anyone who has had them knows the flavor makes them go down easy haha. I drink a lot of waxy maize. Every once and a while I might get subway or something like that. When ice cream goes on sale I use that sometimes. For 90% of the time I am wheat free.
I personally notice a difference if I eat a lot of shit versus rice/potatoes/waxymaize.
I like corn chips too, if I ever get them the bag never lasts longer than the night haha.[/quote]
Can I ask the positives to excluding wheat out of the diet? Like I know LOLiquin says people cut wheat/gluten out and lose like over 9000% bf in 30 seconds, but have ya’ll noticed a difference in body comp?[/quote]
I did a month without wheat in April (didn’t cheat once) and lost 4-5 pounds. I changed my diet completely and was trying to lose weight though, so I don’t know whether it was simply the wheat. The only thing I noticed from the cutting wheat thing was healthier skin. Like my face felt smoother or something. That’s all I really noticed though. I’ve lost 8-9 pounds in the past 4 weeks and have been occasionally having wheat still.
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
[quote]StateOfPsychosis wrote:
[quote]inkaddict wrote:
Anyone CBL without eating wheat products, and if so, what do your backloads typically consist of?
I’ll sometimes have nachos with corn chips; or a burrito bowl (no tortilla) from Chipotle with extra rice; corn tortillas, and things like that but I find myself eating garbage just to get carbs in, if I don’t have any of those choices available.
[/quote]
I use a ton of rice, either Basmati or Jasmine. Potatoes to mix things up and also rice noddles. When I had them I ate some finibars, which anyone who has had them knows the flavor makes them go down easy haha. I drink a lot of waxy maize. Every once and a while I might get subway or something like that. When ice cream goes on sale I use that sometimes. For 90% of the time I am wheat free.
I personally notice a difference if I eat a lot of shit versus rice/potatoes/waxymaize.
I like corn chips too, if I ever get them the bag never lasts longer than the night haha.[/quote]
Can I ask the positives to excluding wheat out of the diet? Like I know LOLiquin says people cut wheat/gluten out and lose like over 9000% bf in 30 seconds, but have ya’ll noticed a difference in body comp?[/quote]
Dunno about body comp, but I’d imagine biomarkers for health would improve a shitload.
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
[quote]StateOfPsychosis wrote:
[quote]inkaddict wrote:
Anyone CBL without eating wheat products, and if so, what do your backloads typically consist of?
I’ll sometimes have nachos with corn chips; or a burrito bowl (no tortilla) from Chipotle with extra rice; corn tortillas, and things like that but I find myself eating garbage just to get carbs in, if I don’t have any of those choices available.
[/quote]
I use a ton of rice, either Basmati or Jasmine. Potatoes to mix things up and also rice noddles. When I had them I ate some finibars, which anyone who has had them knows the flavor makes them go down easy haha. I drink a lot of waxy maize. Every once and a while I might get subway or something like that. When ice cream goes on sale I use that sometimes. For 90% of the time I am wheat free.
I personally notice a difference if I eat a lot of shit versus rice/potatoes/waxymaize.
I like corn chips too, if I ever get them the bag never lasts longer than the night haha.[/quote]
Can I ask the positives to excluding wheat out of the diet? Like I know LOLiquin says people cut wheat/gluten out and lose like over 9000% bf in 30 seconds, but have ya’ll noticed a difference in body comp?[/quote]
For me personally I just feel better when I don’t eat a lot of wheat products. I can slam 8-1000g of carbs from rice, potatoes, waxymaize and icing sugar squares, wake up the next morning and feel great. Composition wise I feel like my muscles are fuller and I don’t look or feel soft. Now if I were to eat wheat pasta, pizza and bread I feel and look like shit. Plus I get the shits from eating wheat products whereas when I go without, everything works fine. From experimenting I find I feel and look better without wheat as a major source of carbs. That being said I will every once and a while indulge in certain foods that contain wheat, but never frequently.
All I can say is play around with it, maybe no wheat for a week and see how you feel? My roommate eats nothing but pasta, ice cream and white bread and he’s lean as hell. All depends on the individual I guess.
For me personally I just feel better when I don’t eat a lot of wheat products. I can slam 8-1000g of carbs from rice, potatoes, waxymaize and icing sugar squares, wake up the next morning and feel great. Composition wise I feel like my muscles are fuller and I don’t look or feel soft. Now if I were to eat wheat pasta, pizza and bread I feel and look like shit.
Plus I get the shits from eating wheat products whereas when I go without, everything works fine. From experimenting I find I feel and look better without wheat as a major source of carbs. That being said I will every once and a while indulge in certain foods that contain wheat, but never frequently.
All I can say is play around with it, maybe no wheat for a week and see how you feel? My roommate eats nothing but pasta, ice cream and white bread and he’s lean as hell. All depends on the individual I guess.[/quote]
Im am the same way. I started eating Paleo/Primal a year and a half ago, and since then lost thirty pounds of fat while maintaing and muscle without any cradio besides jiu jitsu training 2-3 times a week. Foods affect people in differnet ways, but gluten can be very inflamatory to most people. I’ve just started eating carbnite, and after I’ve had something like pizza or grain I get the shits all day.
Thanks guys. I get sleepy anytime I eat, ever lol, and eat wheat often without bowel issues. But I may try to go a week without wheat in the Backload, see if I can tell a difference.
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
but I’ve actually noticed some fat gain on my pecs that has never been a problem before - mostly around nipples.
[/quote]
LOL i get that too from CBL but i figured it was just from water retention from high carbs combined with naturally high estrogen.[/quote]
Water? I hadn’t thought of that.
But what would be the cause of the naturally high estrogen you speak of?[/quote]
LMFAOI got the same thing along with gaining fat. Didn’t work for me. I have to count calories. I’m predisposed to lower pec fat but have no idea why this happens on CBL.
Is there any benefit from doing absolutely no carbs on off days compared to just limiting them? Right now on off days I am trying to keep under 50g of carbs all day.
Ok, so the following post is going to be long and over-analytical. If you’re currently having success with CBL and don’t have to track any foods then congrats. You may just want to skip my post. If you’ve managed to put on fat while following the CBL guidelines or just like to track macros/cals and analyze things, then the following may be interesting.
I’m currently 2 weeks out from my contest and I’ve had dreams of following CBL since reading the book about 2 months ago. After further thought, I’ve realized that I can’t just go full steam ahead and actually need a plan for post-contest (something I didn’t have last year). I intend to stay within 10-15 pounds of my contest weight in the off-season (last year I gained 20lbs in a week!!!).
THE PLAN:
Now although I haven’t tried CBL yet, the science sounds good and I would think for the normal person, just following the guidelines would bring some great results. However, coming off of a contest prep is a whole different animal. At this point, my metabolism is slow, I’m taking in pretty low cals, and my hormones are probably out of whack. This is a recipe for disaster without a diet plan to follow.
What I plan on doing is following the CBL guidelines while calculating and tracking my macros. This may not seem like a revolutionary idea, but not many people seem to be tracking macros while on CBL. It may seem silly, but I’m going to play it safe, so no 600g carb backloads out the gate. I’ll be choosing macros near what my current dieting numbers are.
MACROS:
So this part may interest the over-analyzers…
Calories: 2100
I calculated this based on my average calorie intake of my medium and high days during contest prep. It’s also roughly 12 cals * lbm. This should roughly be the total calories for the whole day.
Protein: 213g
Simplest one. 1.25g * lbm. Protein amounts will be split between the low-carb and backload parts of the day.
Fat: 71g
Microsoft Excel to the rescue. This is 2/3’s the amount of the low-carb protein estimate (106.5g). This is the target amount of fat I’m aiming for during the low-carb portion of the day. (Obviously minimize usable carbs). I know currently everyone is saying to have a 1:1 ratio of Pro to Fat, but I’ll start here (1.5:1) and see how it goes.
Carbs: 152g
Calculated from the left over calories. I’ll be trying to minimize fat during the backload.
These are all rough estimates. The actual numbers will be slightly higher since I’m not factoring in incidental carbs during the low-carb portion and incidental fat during the carb backload.
PROGRESSION:
As my body starts to normalize, obviously I plan on increasing cals/macros. First increases will come from carbs (hopefully I can get some impressive backloads in, lol). I’ll probably start with a 25g-50g increase each week and gauge from there.
Once I find my magic number for carbs (staying tight while slowly putting on muscle), I’ll increase the healthy fats during the low-carb portion. I’m more interested in the carbs right now, lol. I’m hoping that my magic number will be >400
OFF-DAYS AND REFEEDS:
For Off-Days (prob 2 a week), I’ll just do low-carb all day initially. I’ll keep protein the same and double the fat. Deeper into my off-season, I might turn these into light backload days (100g or so).
Refeeds. Well I probably won’t need one, but it sounds better than a cheat day, lol. This will probably be every Saturday where I just eat whatever I feel like during my backload. I might try to compensate by fasting longer during the day. Also, except in my post-wo shake, I won’t purposely limit fats (pizza and ice cream here I come).
SAMPLE DAY:
With all the explanation out of the way, here’s what a sample day would look like. I’d appreciate any thoughts on it.
9am: Kiefer Coffee (coffee + 1 scoop WPI + 1 tbsp coconut oil)
1pm: 2 eggs, 1 cup egg whites, 3 slices bacon + veggies
4pm: 6 oz sirloin, 1 string cheese + veggies
6:30pm (Pre-WO): Kiefer Coffee + 5g Creatine
7-8:30pm (Peri-WO): 10g EAA+ 3g Leucine
9pm (Post-WO): 1.5 cup Fruity Pebbles, 2 scoops WPI + 3g Leucine + 5g Creatine
10pm: 6 oz chicken, 1.5 cup rice, 1 Skinny Cow
12am (Pre-Bed): 1 scoop protein
This comes out to:
Low-Carb: Calories: 1004, Pro: 94g, Fat: 67g, Carbs: 5g
Back-Load: Calories: 1202, Pro: 120g, Fat: 15g, Carbs: 153g
Totals: Calories: 2206, Pro: 214g, Fat: 82g, Carbs: 158g
So slightly higher than goal macros but it’s close enough. Also, I don’t track my veggies. I don’t currently do it during my contest prep, so I don’t plan on doing it after. I normally stick to high fiber ones (spinach, broccoli, asparagus, etc), so I doubt I’ll get anywhere close to the 30g of usable carb cut-off during the low-carb portion.
Well I think that’s it. Look forward to thoughts and comments.
I browsed through this topic seeing if anyone had the same set up as me but as far as I noticed, no one does (no doubt I could’ve missed someone who does; there is 45 pgs worth after all, aha). Basically, I wake up at around 10:00-10:30am most days and usually start my work out between 12:45pm-1:45pm; 80% of the time, I usually work on my work out days at 5:00pm.
I have read the book and I’m still not quite sure what I should take (if anything) before I work out, and what my PWO shake should consist of (I’m thinking everything but the high GI carb; or just leucine, the hydrolyized protein and caffeine).
I can bring my carb-filled meal to work and shove it down before we open at 5:30pm since we usually get everything set up 10-15 minutes before hand. I don’t get a proper break at work and I’d rather not have to pick at my meal in between busy spells with customers after 6pm. However, it is a short shift - I get off at 9:30pm but don’t get home until 10:00pm.
Would eating a small fatty and low carb meal instead at 5:00pm be better and wait till I get home to eat my carb filled meal? I’m a woman so of course I’m probably making this more complicated than it needs to be and being too picky, haha 
Any thoughts would be appreciated, though.
[quote]BrianBellitto wrote:
Is there any benefit from doing absolutely no carbs on off days compared to just limiting them? Right now on off days I am trying to keep under 50g of carbs all day.[/quote]
If I understand the information from the book correctly, the amount of carbs you can consume on rest days varies for each person. You need to experiment. Try increasing it some but if you find you are waking up soft and holding water or waking up fat, cut back.
[quote]BrianBellitto wrote:
Is there any benefit from doing absolutely no carbs on off days compared to just limiting them? Right now on off days I am trying to keep under 50g of carbs all day.[/quote]
Check out the comments on Nate Miyaki’s recent article here on T-Nation.
I asked the very same thing.
(Nate’s an advocate of carb backloading)
Thoughts,
That looks like a well-planned and informed approach. I’m looking forward to seeing how it works for you. I think you coming from a contest state into CBL may prove very interesting… Sort of an extreme version of his prep period. And are you still using Indigo?
Heatheraw,
You can try dropping around 30-40g of carbs in the PWO mix and see how it works. I like that option when I workout mid day/early morning. As for the work option, try it both ways. If it were me, I’d rather have a fatty type meal before work that would stick with me for the duration of the shift, and then just have some sort of easily accessible carb during the shift to snack on. (I use maltodextrin shakes, jelly beans, etc.) Also, Lulu huh?
CBL experienced people. This thread had potential for win but is clouded by the unguided posts of heathen t-nationers.
Can some of you post clear examples of on and off days.
Super clear, as in 9:00 Coffee, shaken, not stirred, ect.
I need more clear examples of what to use for backloading after I lift. Please name stuff other than ice cream. I cannot justify eating ice cream. wtf
Also off days. I have about 2 a week so details people details!
[quote]wiggles wrote:
You can try dropping around 30-40g of carbs in the PWO mix and see how it works. I like that option when I workout mid day/early morning. As for the work option, try it both ways. If it were me, I’d rather have a fatty type meal before work that would stick with me for the duration of the shift, and then just have some sort of easily accessible carb during the shift to snack on. (I use maltodextrin shakes, jelly beans, etc.) Also, Lulu huh?[/quote]
Hm, I think I may do this except drop the carbs entirely in the PWO mix: “Even consider skipping the carbs in the post-training shake and saving them for a single meal” (P185). Thank you However, I am still confused about what to do beforehand: “Nothing changes much other than inclusion of the pre- or intra-workout formulas, or both. Only do this if
breakfast or some other meal came firstâ??something other than coffee or the a.m. metabolic accelerator shake.” (p. 162)
Does he mean only take those formulas if another meal came first, or only do mid-day training if you ate a meal first? I am assuming my former assumption is the correct one. With that being said, I actually would rather not eat beforehand … so I’m assuming A.M. accelerator shake (yay for answering my own question).
And yes, Lulu Mwaha.