[quote]wiggles wrote:
[quote]BrianBellitto wrote:
I am going to start CBL tomorrow. Took a lot of your meal choices into consideration and am excited to start.
I do take a pre workout supplement (Jackd) before i train. Do you think this would have any affect on my results?[/quote]
No negative effects that I can think of. You’re getting the caffeine stimulus Kiefer recommends, but I suppose none of the protein. If it feels like it helps, keep it. If not, drop it.[/quote]
Yeah i guess you’re right. I mean i’m starting with some protein before (nuts, chicken, tuna).
I am going to see how it goes. Thanks.
[quote]cavemancop wrote:
I need some help trying to figure out an AM training carb backloading protcol.
I usualy wake up around 0700, drink coffee and then train fasted. Then I go to work for twelve hours and get home at about 1100 fuck around for maybe an hour then go to bed. Im 5’10 180lbs now and would like to loose some bodyfat and maintain/gain muscle. I need some help on how much and when I should carb backload.
Thanks for the help [/quote]
From what I’ve read, you should consume a carb and protein drink right after your workout, then avoid all carbs until evening.
Check your PMs.
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
[quote]cavemancop wrote:
I need some help trying to figure out an AM training carb backloading protcol.
I usualy wake up around 0700, drink coffee and then train fasted. Then I go to work for twelve hours and get home at about 1100 fuck around for maybe an hour then go to bed. Im 5’10 180lbs now and would like to loose some bodyfat and maintain/gain muscle. I need some help on how much and when I should carb backload.
Thanks for the help [/quote]
From what I’ve read, you should consume a carb and protein drink right after your workout, then avoid all carbs until evening.
[/quote]
^This
Though I know Ryan, and StormingTheBeach has had success with training in the morning and just waiting until after 6pm to ingest carbs. Ryan can tell you more, but some research supports that.
STB lifts heavy in the morning, then does lifter stuff in the PM I think though.
I tend to combine some heavy lifting with light cardio and body weight workouts.
Do you think this would affect doing a CBL?
Also I keep forgetting should i be trying premium or regular ice cream?
[quote]BrianBellitto wrote:
I tend to combine some heavy lifting with light cardio and body weight workouts.
Do you think this would affect doing a CBL?
Also I keep forgetting should i be trying premium or regular ice cream?[/quote]
I’d do the real backloads on the heavy training nights, and leave the lighter ones for the bodyweight stuff. And buy premium. They don’t have any HFCS in them and the list of ingredients you can count on one hand. As it should be.
[quote]Siouxfan wrote:
[quote]BrianBellitto wrote:
I tend to combine some heavy lifting with light cardio and body weight workouts.
Do you think this would affect doing a CBL?
Also I keep forgetting should i be trying premium or regular ice cream?[/quote]
I’d do the real backloads on the heavy training nights, and leave the lighter ones for the bodyweight stuff. And buy premium. They don’t have any HFCS in them and the list of ingredients you can count on one hand. As it should be. [/quote]
Ah ok thanks.
But yeah thats my dilema, I don’t want to really change my workout drastically.
My workouts recently are usually split half lifting heavy and half body weight/light cardio.
I usually am at the gym 3-4 times a week and am there for about 2-2 1/2 hours.
Does anyone have similar routines and have good or bad results while doing CBL?
Anyone on here have similar routines?
[quote]BrianBellitto wrote:
[quote]Siouxfan wrote:
[quote]BrianBellitto wrote:
I tend to combine some heavy lifting with light cardio and body weight workouts.
Do you think this would affect doing a CBL?
Also I keep forgetting should i be trying premium or regular ice cream?[/quote]
I’d do the real backloads on the heavy training nights, and leave the lighter ones for the bodyweight stuff. And buy premium. They don’t have any HFCS in them and the list of ingredients you can count on one hand. As it should be. [/quote]
Ah ok thanks.
But yeah thats my dilema, I don’t want to really change my workout drastically.
My workouts recently are usually split half lifting heavy and half body weight/light cardio.
I usually am at the gym 3-4 times a week and am there for about 2-2 1/2 hours.
Does anyone have similar routines and have good or bad results while doing CBL?
Anyone on here have similar routines?
[/quote]
I like low or no fat ice cream
[quote]BrianBellitto wrote:
[quote]Siouxfan wrote:
[quote]BrianBellitto wrote:
I tend to combine some heavy lifting with light cardio and body weight workouts.
Do you think this would affect doing a CBL?
Also I keep forgetting should i be trying premium or regular ice cream?[/quote]
I’d do the real backloads on the heavy training nights, and leave the lighter ones for the bodyweight stuff. And buy premium. They don’t have any HFCS in them and the list of ingredients you can count on one hand. As it should be. [/quote]
Ah ok thanks.
But yeah thats my dilema, I don’t want to really change my workout drastically.
My workouts recently are usually split half lifting heavy and half body weight/light cardio.
I usually am at the gym 3-4 times a week and am there for about 2-2 1/2 hours.
Does anyone have similar routines and have good or bad results while doing CBL?
Anyone on here have similar routines?
[/quote]
Whats a training day look like? exercises sets reps ect
[quote]BrianBellitto wrote:
[quote]Siouxfan wrote:
[quote]BrianBellitto wrote:
I tend to combine some heavy lifting with light cardio and body weight workouts.
Do you think this would affect doing a CBL?
Also I keep forgetting should i be trying premium or regular ice cream?[/quote]
I’d do the real backloads on the heavy training nights, and leave the lighter ones for the bodyweight stuff. And buy premium. They don’t have any HFCS in them and the list of ingredients you can count on one hand. As it should be. [/quote]
Ah ok thanks.
But yeah thats my dilema, I don’t want to really change my workout drastically.
My workouts recently are usually split half lifting heavy and half body weight/light cardio.
I usually am at the gym 3-4 times a week and am there for about 2-2 1/2 hours.
Does anyone have similar routines and have good or bad results while doing CBL?
Anyone on here have similar routines?
[/quote]
When you say body weight workouts what do you mean?
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
[quote]cavemancop wrote:
I need some help trying to figure out an AM training carb backloading protcol.
I usualy wake up around 0700, drink coffee and then train fasted. Then I go to work for twelve hours and get home at about 1100 fuck around for maybe an hour then go to bed. Im 5’10 180lbs now and would like to loose some bodyfat and maintain/gain muscle. I need some help on how much and when I should carb backload.
Thanks for the help [/quote]
From what I’ve read, you should consume a carb and protein drink right after your workout, then avoid all carbs until evening.
[/quote]
^This
Though I know Ryan, and StormingTheBeach has had success with training in the morning and just waiting until after 6pm to ingest carbs. Ryan can tell you more, but some research supports that.
STB lifts heavy in the morning, then does lifter stuff in the PM I think though. [/quote]
From what i have read for a diff forum and the research they posted ( i posted some of the titles for ppl to search if they wished earlier in this thread) that you would want an insulin spike post workout with out the use of carbs then consume carbs in the evening like usual. There are many posts farther back that i wont repeat. Basically the thought from this reserach is the longer you deprive the body of carbs post workout the more insulin sensitive the muscles become BUt you will lose the Glut 4 insulin independent translocation that you get form heavy lifting.
Is there any reason to eat more carbs after post workout? And would it be more preferable to eat all your carbs PWO and then go low/no carb the rest of the evening?
Very late to the party but I have now read through the thread twice and hopefully it is OK for me to ask some questions:
- He wants you to start training between 3-4PM. What if you get up at 5:30 or 6AM? Still the same?
- He wants you to have 6-8 hours to meet your post workout carb requirements, correct?
- He wants you to be able to fast at least 4 hours in the morning before you have a high fat, medium protein, very low carb meal/lunch, correct?
- Coffee with cream and coconut oil is ok during the fasting time, right?
- On off days, no carbs, high fat and medium protein?
- Bit confused on what to do during and immediately after the workout.
6a. can you have Bcaa’s during?
6b. can you have a whey/carb shake during (if session last 90 minutes lets say)
6c. if not during, you have the shake right away and then wait how long before you eat?
- Right after the training session all carbs are high glycemic and towards bed time you opt for slower carbs as to not blunt Growth hormone. Is that correct?
- I drop 9lbs after 9 days on no carbs and weigh over 225lbs. So my carb intake should be 700-800 grams every night?
I know it is a lot but really want to give this a try. Have been experimenting in the last month and have been able to eat more and not gain an ounce of fat 
Now I would like to take it to the next level…before I buy the book (cause it is a bit much…)
This was my workout today. Forgive me im not the best with the correct terms for some workouts.
- Circuit of jump rope, elevated push ups and light sparring with heavy bag
- Straight Bench
- Shoulder flys
- Dumbbell curls superset with wrist curls
- Circuit of Russian twists, sits ups and squats with a 45 lb plate
- Olympic Cleans super set with raised leg sit ups
- Cable tricep extension super set with close grip pull ups
- Iso incline press superset with pushups
- Circuit of jump rope, in and outs and elevated push ups
- 10 min and sauna and 6 laps in the pool
This was what I ate.
Honey Roasted Peanuts - F22g C20g
Ham Egg and Cheese Omelette - F30g C2g
52g of Fat
22g of Carbs
5:00 Lift
2 scoops whey in milk F6g C15g
snickers bar F14g C35g
golden grahms F2g C27g
white rice F2.5g C36g
3 pieces of pizza F20 C45g
12 oz of gatorade F0g C20g
Hasbrowns of chicken F20g C55g
1/2 cup premium ice cream F6g C21g
70 grams of Fat
254 grams of Carbs
Any suggestions? Im excited/nervous to see how i feel in the morning.
[quote]IamMarqaos wrote:
Very late to the party but I have now read through the thread twice and hopefully it is OK for me to ask some questions:
- He wants you to start training between 3-4PM. What if you get up at 5:30 or 6AM? Still the same?
- He wants you to have 6-8 hours to meet your post workout carb requirements, correct?
- He wants you to be able to fast at least 4 hours in the morning before you have a high fat, medium protein, very low carb meal/lunch, correct?
- Coffee with cream and coconut oil is ok during the fasting time, right?
- On off days, no carbs, high fat and medium protein?
- Bit confused on what to do during and immediately after the workout.
6a. can you have Bcaa’s during?
6b. can you have a whey/carb shake during (if session last 90 minutes lets say)
6c. if not during, you have the shake right away and then wait how long before you eat?
- Right after the training session all carbs are high glycemic and towards bed time you opt for slower carbs as to not blunt Growth hormone. Is that correct?
- I drop 9lbs after 9 days on no carbs and weigh over 225lbs. So my carb intake should be 700-800 grams every night?
I know it is a lot but really want to give this a try. Have been experimenting in the last month and have been able to eat more and not gain an ounce of fat Now I would like to take it to the next level…before I buy the book (cause it is a bit much…)
[/quote]
I’ll try my best to answer:
- Yes. In the book he has schedules lined up for ppl training as you are waking. I think he’s assuming people are waking up decently early anyways. Honestly, there is a plan for training at any time of day, so I wouldn’t stress over it.
- I believe the assumption is a ‘perfect’ CBK has someone eating after 6pm and hitting the sack probably around 11-midnight. But he lays out plans for those training very late (9pm) where they actually begin the backloading slightly before lifting. So I’d say 6-8 hours is not required.
- Yeah, fasting for 4 hours is recommended if trying to lean up a good deal. He likes the low carb portion of the day to be meals with a 1:1 ratio of protein and fat in grams (not kcal)
- Yes sir
- Correct, with the recomendation being the previously mentioned 1:1 ratio of fats to protein. Carbs should be under 30g (anything NOT fiber counts).
- a. He has a intra-workout shake containing leucine and fast-digesting protein, but doesn’t mention BCAA’s if I recall
b. He says someone using a LOT of volume (like Strongmen competitors) sometimes need that, so only you can really answer that
c. He suggests getting some protein pretty much right after lifting, but has said waiting about 30 mins to take in your PWO carbs could be beneficial.
- Pretty sure you have that incorrect. Slow digesting carbs interfere with GH production longer while sleeping he says, so they should mostly ALL be high GI, and if they are lower, be farther from bed time.
- Roughly yes, but you will need to play around with it, see what a good number is for you.
That’s a combination of info gathered from both the book and his interviews around the web. If I got something wrong, anyone feel free to correct me.
Awesome, thank you!
Maybe one thing in regards to 1. I thought maybe he recommends you train at 3-4 because you get up at 8 am. I thought maybe someone who gets up at 6 could for example start training at 1-2 pm. In that case you could fast from 6-10 am, have an early lunch at 11am, go train from 1-3pm, eat like mad till 9-10 and be asleep at 11.
I guess I have to play with that but wanted to check why he has 3-4pm as his ideal time.
thanks for pointing out my error at 7. Makes sense.
[quote]IamMarqaos wrote:
Awesome, thank you!
Maybe one thing in regards to 1. I thought maybe he recommends you train at 3-4 because you get up at 8 am. I thought maybe someone who gets up at 6 could for example start training at 1-2 pm. In that case you could fast from 6-10 am, have an early lunch at 11am, go train from 1-3pm, eat like mad till 9-10 and be asleep at 11.
I guess I have to play with that but wanted to check why he has 3-4pm as his ideal time.
thanks for pointing out my error at 7. Makes sense.
[/quote]
The thing is, most of his “ideal” timing is based on the ebb and flow of hormones that occurs on it’s own clock. Your body has a way of kind of doing what it wants in that regards, and we can influence it some, but not completely.
I get up at 6:15am or so, fast till noon other than Kiefer coffee, train at 5:30pm or so, and then backload like a boss until I pass out. Usually before 11pm. The key is not starting the carb backload until around 6pm or so. I’ve tried starting earlier (when I didn’t have the book or know what I was doing) and it failed miserably. I felt like crap, and gained mostly fat, and had no pop during workouts. Doing it the right way? Totally different.
If you train at 1-3, have your protein and perhaps one little dose of carbs (depending on what version you are using) 30 mins or so PWO, then stay low carb until 6 when you start the backload.
^ Got ya, appreciate the extra input!
[quote]IamMarqaos wrote:
^ Got ya, appreciate the extra input![/quote]
Marq,
Check your PMs. I’m sending 3 great articles that would probably get deleted here.
Mark
Why so little protein in some of these backloads? Just as a couple examples:
[quote]Siouxfan wrote:17:30 Gym
19:15 PWO shake, 40g carbs from dextrose powder, 50g protein, 2 cups milk - 40g carbs
19:45 3 hawaiian sweet rolls with PB and 4 double stuff oreos - 90g carbs
20:30 Cuban bakery food on way to ladies house and pound cake- 120g carbs
22:00 Pasta - 50g carbs
04:00 AM, get home, still hungry 2 slices pizza and 1 more slice pound cake 80g carbs
TOTAL: 390[/quote]
[quote]Siouxfan wrote:8:00 gym
10:00 PWO shake, 60g carbs
17:00 3 eggs, Various veggies with sauerkraut - 5g carbs
18:30 PWO shake - 60g carbs
20:00 Lots of mac and cheese with ice cream - 200 carbs [/quote]
[quote]hlss09 wrote:
4:00pm: lift
5:30: 25g whey
6:00: 2 pop tarts
7:00: huge rice krispy treat (the big ones they sell at 7-11)
11:00: 2 pancakes smothered in maple syrup, 2 pieces chicken apple sausage, 2 eggs, small milkshake
1:00am: big fruit bowl (6 cups strawberries covered in 1 cup cottage cheese), bowl of ice cream [/quote]
In the book (note: I have not read it) does he not recommend a lot of protein during the backload?
[quote]Scuba steve-o wrote:
Why so little protein in some of these backloads? Just as a couple examples:
[quote]Siouxfan wrote:17:30 Gym
19:15 PWO shake, 40g carbs from dextrose powder, 50g protein, 2 cups milk - 40g carbs
19:45 3 hawaiian sweet rolls with PB and 4 double stuff oreos - 90g carbs
20:30 Cuban bakery food on way to ladies house and pound cake- 120g carbs
22:00 Pasta - 50g carbs
04:00 AM, get home, still hungry 2 slices pizza and 1 more slice pound cake 80g carbs
TOTAL: 390[/quote]
[quote]Siouxfan wrote:8:00 gym
10:00 PWO shake, 60g carbs
17:00 3 eggs, Various veggies with sauerkraut - 5g carbs
18:30 PWO shake - 60g carbs
20:00 Lots of mac and cheese with ice cream - 200 carbs [/quote]
[quote]hlss09 wrote:
4:00pm: lift
5:30: 25g whey
6:00: 2 pop tarts
7:00: huge rice krispy treat (the big ones they sell at 7-11)
11:00: 2 pancakes smothered in maple syrup, 2 pieces chicken apple sausage, 2 eggs, small milkshake
1:00am: big fruit bowl (6 cups strawberries covered in 1 cup cottage cheese), bowl of ice cream [/quote]
In the book (note: I have not read it) does he not recommend a lot of protein during the backload?[/quote]
it looks like a lot of these have between 75-100g in each backload probably. He only recommends around 1g/lb BW. So if you get protein in meals pre-backload, the probably hit their protein requirements.
Also when you eat a lot of carbs, you inevitably get a good deal of protein a lot of times. Eating pizza usually has meat on it, some ice cream has a good deal of it, etc…