[quote]sambo123 wrote:
Aside from the bloating, I feel awesome. Lifting more too and tonight is only my third night CBL. I was initially turned onto CBL because I would he able to eat more ‘normally’. I used to eat like a saint, and at specific times only ultra clean meals and my fiancee told me that my 'diet’tuition was beginning to take over our lives. The more I thought about it I realized that this was totally correct and that something had to change. Thus I came across CBL. Now I’m running about 7lbs heavier than before I started, which I’m chalking up to the water/bloat because before this I had been eating super low carb for a long time, so low carb that I only ran the prep for three days. But the freedom it’s given me is fantastic. And I’m certainly enjoying the ability to lift a bit heavier.
[/quote]
Not to knock you so early into it, but perhaps backoff on the carbs a little. Bloating should be gone by morning otherwise you are eating too much. If youve been low carbing for ages you dont need a lot of carbs to get a super anabolic response. Id caution you again to ease into it rather than “Well last night I had 200grams and didnt get fat, so tonight Ill have 300grams of carbs!”
We havent got your stats or goals yet either. Im a male 5’11" 30 years old and last time I weighed myself I was around 198lbs. I have dropped a ton of fat IFing and Carb Backloading since then but lost no strength, which in theory means no muscle loss. I only take about 300grams of carbs PWO. You are a girl so probably dont need that much or more unless you are “Density Bulking” [/quote]
Haha it’s more of getting an idea of how much I can actually tolerate. Bloating subsided by about 10 this morning. The extra seven lbs I’m just assuming is water. Also, I’m pretty much eating heavy the last few nights because I haven’t eaten stuff like that in so so long. My normal weight is between 117-120 and I’m 126 today. I’m 5’5 and have an athletic build. About 18%bf using calipers. I also lift heavy. Not a zillion reps pr ‘girly’ weights lol
HIIT would you be your best bet. I have been doing 30 min every other day in the morning. I guess this would be considered “fasted” but im so fueled from the night before that its become easier and easier. This will help you maintain as much muscle as possible while keeping BF lower. It worked for me so far.
[quote]pshannon wrote:
HIIT would you be your best bet. I have been doing 30 min every other day in the morning. I guess this would be considered “fasted” but im so fueled from the night before that its become easier and easier. This will help you maintain as much muscle as possible while keeping BF lower. It worked for me so far.
I appreciate your girly weight comment!
[/quote]
Haha well I hope see tons of girls at gyms doing like 50 reps of 10lbs. I don’t want anyone to get this impression of me. I’m actually much closer to being one of those tools that worked legs too hard and can’t walk up steps or sit down on a toilet for a couple days lol. Leg day was today btw. Which was another reason I tried to CBL heavy last night
I still haven’t gotten the hang of it lol. Actually threw up the last two nights. I’ll get used to it eventually tho.
As far as the HIIT goes I’ll deff give it a try. Currently I do fasted cardio and in pretty decent amounts. Average cardio sessions for me a about
600 calories, between two sessions.
Just my 2 cents. I agree that when following a traditional diet, even heaver dudes don’t always need in excess of 500g+ carbs even when bulking. This isn’t your traditional diet though, hormonal response and thermogenics play a part as mwentioned ealier. I’m about 180lbs, and have literally never really gone above 300g of carbs in the past while carb cycling, even when ‘bulking’ - I put fat on super quick. I’ve been carb CBL for 3 weeks, and after the initial glut of crap I ate in the first week, (suggested 600g carbs PWO and I admit I went overboard) I tweeked the amount on how my body was responding. Am on a sweet spot of about 300-400g depending on volume. I Train full body 3 x per week, generally lots of volume. Arms + rear delts once a week (where carbs are much lower - like 100g - 150g)
Truthfully, I’m now eating quite clean and still getting the cals in. I live in Bangkok and hammer sticky rice, sweet sticky rice amd Mango and other ‘cleaner’ types of fast carbs PWO. I’ll have a stone baked pizza, homemade burger and chunky fries, curry with rice and nan every now and again when out with my lady. No stress. I’ve put 5-6lbs on in this time, (which no doubt will be half water at least)and my lifts and strength have gone through the roof. I’ve put no noticable fat on + last week even slighty leaner. I’m doing the Strength Accumulation phase, but am quite happy to be putting mass on at present while not gaining fat, and being able to eat freely in the eveings after training.
Thing is, cos I’ve experiemented I reckon I could really drop the fat super quick by dropping carbs a tad on 2-3 training days (keeping them high on another) Kiefer knows his shit man no doubt, but folks are all different so go high carbs as recommended and see what heppens. I don’t believe that if your around 180lb like my weasely-ass-self I’ll ever need to go below 300g PWO if kept quite clean, and training volume and intensity are high. 300-500g carbs isn’t a massive amount of cals. It’s when you combine with fats in ‘dirty foods’ and eat them as a staple PWO that they add up and fat gain MIGHT BE an issue.
I think Kiefers done us all a favour, and perhaps made us a little less anal and inhibited about our eating habits, allowing us to be a little more social while still having a decent body that gets the hot chick to drop their panties.
[quote]moogweasel wrote:
I think Kiefers done us all a favour, and perhaps made us a little less anal and inhibited about our eating habits, allowing us to be a little more social while still having a decent body that gets the hot chick to drop their panties.[/quote]I still find when going out that I worry a little that Im not getting enough calories or carbs in! LOL
[quote]sambo123 wrote:
Can someone please tell me how many carbs the book says I should be eating a night?[/quote]
There’s two methods for determining this.
The first which he feels is the more accurate way is to do the prep phase and see how much weight you lost. He didn’t say whether this was after eating carbs or not so I’m going to assume it isn’t. With that being said someone who loses 7 lbs should take in about 600 grms, which I don’t understand because you can easily lose just 5 lbs of just water on low carbs.
The second method which still gets you to the same ball park figure of carbs is to go by your body weight. Anyone weighing from 170 to 200 is supposed to take in from 600 to 700 grms.
[quote]sambo123 wrote:
Can someone please tell me how many carbs the book says I should be eating a night?[/quote]
Wow, you want to be spoon fed?
Seriously, if you don’t think the book is worth the $90 (like me), do some reading to understand the basic template of CBL and then TRY things on yourself. Vary the quantity and types of carbs and see how you respond.
You either put in the time or you pay the cash. Even if you buy the book, you only get a starting template and you still need to find out what works for you - that means experimenting. Once you see how different eating patterns impact your fat loss or muscle gain, you become more confident in controlling your body. You can loosen things up a bit to experiment, because you know how to get back on track.
There’s a lot of free information out there if you’re willing to put in the time and choose to apply it in an intelligent manner.
[quote]sambo123 wrote:
Can someone please tell me how many carbs the book says I should be eating a night?[/quote]
Wow, you want to be spoon fed?
Seriously, if you don’t think the book is worth the $90 (like me), do some reading to understand the basic template of CBL and then TRY things on yourself. Vary the quantity and types of carbs and see how you respond.
You either put in the time or you pay the cash. Even if you buy the book, you only get a starting template and you still need to find out what works for you - that means experimenting. Once you see how different eating patterns impact your fat loss or muscle gain, you become more confident in controlling your body. You can loosen things up a bit to experiment, because you know how to get back on track.
There’s a lot of free information out there if you’re willing to put in the time and choose to apply it in an intelligent manner. [/quote]
There is a TON of information that’s out there and free, which is a major reason why I haven’t bought the book. That’s all I’m looking for is the starting template.
[quote]sambo123 wrote:
Can someone please tell me how many carbs the book says I should be eating a night?[/quote]
There’s two methods for determining this.
The first which he feels is the more accurate way is to do the prep phase and see how much weight you lost. He didn’t say whether this was after eating carbs or not so I’m going to assume it isn’t. With that being said someone who loses 7 lbs should take in about 600 grms, which I don’t understand because you can easily lose just 5 lbs of just water on low carbs.
The second method which still gets you to the same ball park figure of carbs is to go by your body weight. Anyone weighing from 170 to 200 is supposed to take in from 600 to 700 grms.[/quote]
I lost five pounds during prep. I weigh around 120 and have been doing 2-300, and I wasn’t sure if that was really high because I know girls can’t go as wild as boys can, but I’ve seen plans that suggest 2x bodyweight g in carbs on workout days.
Yes you lose water weight during prep and that is the point i beleive that would be good indicator of how much muscle you have as you depelete glycogen you lose a ton of water. (just my hypothesis). The more water loss the more muscle kiefer is guessing you have thus the more carbs you can load
[quote]as wrote:
Yeah once I start backloading I’m starting at a lower end like around 200 grms or so and go from there. It just doesn’t make sense to me on how you can load upwards of 400 gms of carbs even if its after your workout and not only not get fat but get a better body comp. I always followed the logic that you need to earn your carbs (and calories in general) which lead me to a lot of questions about the book and I’m hoping someone can chime in and explain some of this.
Is anyone really doing workouts that deplete your glycogen levels to such a degree that you could ingest 400, 500 or 600 or more grms of carbs a night and not get fat? Because that’s what the table shows for someone around 200lbs. [/quote]
Its not all about the glycogen replenishment though. A lot of the carbs are wasted through thermogenesis; and beyond pure glycogen replenishment you still need the insulin response and caloric load to power muscle growth.
I load 600g minimum and do just fine. And i am only 6’ 200lbs
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Yes you lose water weight during prep and that is the point i beleive that would be good indicator of how much muscle you have as you depelete glycogen you lose a ton of water. (just my hypothesis). The more water loss the more muscle kiefer is guessing you have thus the more carbs you can load[/quote]
Oh yeah anytime you cut carbs you lose water. I’m just trying to get an idea of how many grams I should be shooting for.
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Yes you lose water weight during prep and that is the point i beleive that would be good indicator of how much muscle you have as you depelete glycogen you lose a ton of water. (just my hypothesis). The more water loss the more muscle kiefer is guessing you have thus the more carbs you can load[/quote]
Oh yeah anytime you cut carbs you lose water. I’m just trying to get an idea of how many grams I should be shooting for.[/quote]
That was in reply to As
Shoot for what you have been doing and wait a week or so of it. Check results compared to your goals. If your gaining strength and muscle and losing fat but wantt to gain more push carbs up. If you are gaining fat back off the carbs a bit. If you are gaining but want to stricly lose more fat drop carbs a bit. It will take tweaking. Right now i am at 700 or a bit over. The chart says my top should be 700. I am very active and my workouts are very large volume. So I had to tweak things. I am also on an all out gaining phase
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Yes you lose water weight during prep and that is the point i beleive that would be good indicator of how much muscle you have as you depelete glycogen you lose a ton of water. (just my hypothesis). The more water loss the more muscle kiefer is guessing you have thus the more carbs you can load[/quote]
Oh yeah anytime you cut carbs you lose water. I’m just trying to get an idea of how many grams I should be shooting for.[/quote]
That was in reply to As
Shoot for what you have been doing and wait a week or so of it. Check results compared to your goals. If your gaining strength and muscle and losing fat but wantt to gain more push carbs up. If you are gaining fat back off the carbs a bit. If you are gaining but want to stricly lose more fat drop carbs a bit. It will take tweaking. Right now i am at 700 or a bit over. The chart says my top should be 700. I am very active and my workouts are very large volume. So I had to tweak things. I am also on an all out gaining phase[/quote]
Its funny Ryan as you eat twice as many carbs as me, at about the same height/weight and my girlfriend gives ME shit for eating too much! and Im losing fat!!!
Anyone know the stance on booze when CBL? - I found it slightly strange that it’s not mentioned in the book or in any forums that I could find. I know what Martin B’s stance is with Leangains, but would be interested to know others thoughts on MODERATE low carb alcohol in the evenings (vodka soda, low carb beers etc)
I’m not drinking booze at all at present, but am off to the UK to visit friends and famlily for 3 weeks in 6 weeks or so (I live in Bangkok)and there will some evening drinking no doubt. I’m still gonna CBL - cleaner than maybe I would here. My thoughts are if your ‘density bulking’ you could get away with it in terms of not losing, but no gaining any fat? I’ll go thought teh whole prep phase after to ‘prime the ol body for fat burning’ n stuff.
Input from my learnered fellows would be greatly appreciated
Anyone know the stance on booze when CBL? - I found it slightly strange that it’s not mentioned in the book or in any forums that I could find. I know what Martin B’s stance is with Leangains, but would be interested to know others thoughts on MODERATE low carb alcohol in the evenings (vodka soda, low carb beers etc)
I’m not drinking booze at all at present, but am off to the UK to visit friends and famlily for 3 weeks in 6 weeks or so (I live in Bangkok)and there will some evening drinking no doubt. I’m still gonna CBL - cleaner than maybe I would here. My thoughts are if your ‘density bulking’ you could get away with it in terms of not losing, but no gaining any fat? I’ll go thought teh whole prep phase after to ‘prime the ol body for fat burning’ n stuff.
Input from my learnered fellows would be greatly appreciated
moog[/quote]
Your thoughts on Denisty Bulking would be correct. But he definately recommends limiting alcohol intake. Recently, in one of his BioJacked radio shows, he mentioned that if you were to drink 3 or more drinks you may as well get completely plastered, because youve essentially shut down testosterone production for the next 5-7 days. A drink a night is probably fine with dinner.
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Yes you lose water weight during prep and that is the point i beleive that would be good indicator of how much muscle you have as you depelete glycogen you lose a ton of water. (just my hypothesis). The more water loss the more muscle kiefer is guessing you have thus the more carbs you can load[/quote]
Oh yeah anytime you cut carbs you lose water. I’m just trying to get an idea of how many grams I should be shooting for.[/quote]
That was in reply to As
Shoot for what you have been doing and wait a week or so of it. Check results compared to your goals. If your gaining strength and muscle and losing fat but wantt to gain more push carbs up. If you are gaining fat back off the carbs a bit. If you are gaining but want to stricly lose more fat drop carbs a bit. It will take tweaking. Right now i am at 700 or a bit over. The chart says my top should be 700. I am very active and my workouts are very large volume. So I had to tweak things. I am also on an all out gaining phase[/quote]
Its funny Ryan as you eat twice as many carbs as me, at about the same height/weight and my girlfriend gives ME shit for eating too much! and Im losing fat!!! [/quote]
Lol i have the apetite/stomach capacity to be the largest guy in the world. But my activity level keeps me at a respectable level of leaness. Plus i am trying to gian as much as i can before Aug. so i am pushing things far beyond what i normally would. But its fun to push the limits.