Had a lot of problems downloading the book as well, even refunded my purchase and bought it again in hopes of a valid download link with no luck. Finally got a a response after a month and three emails with a new download link which still didn’t work. Finally had an idea so I went off post to use the Panera Bread wifi (lol) and finally was able to download the book. Web filter here on FLW was sneakily blocking the download site. Just loaded the PDF onto my Nook so I look forward to checking it out.
I’m trying carb backloadind I’m on my second night. I can’t seem to find the charts with starting points. I’m a 120 lb female who lost about 5 lbs during the prep phase. Just looking for some macros, or specifically, how many carbs I should be eating at night?
Its at the end of the book in appendix a… tells your everything you need for on days and off days.
I can PM the numbers if necessary
I didn’t buy the book, just seemed like there is SO much information online already. If you could PM me some numbers I’d really appreciate it. Thank you.
[quote]sambo123 wrote:
I didn’t buy the book, just seemed like there is SO much information online already. If you could PM me some numbers I’d really appreciate it. Thank you.[/quote]
Seriously I dont think its a hard and fast thing. It depends on your goals but Id start low and raise slowly until you start seeing adverse results. Find the sweet spot where performance and body comp balance where youd like. Even with the calculated recommendations youd still have to do this. So maybe since you are a girl start with 50-100grams and go from there. I know Kiefer says girls cant go hogwild on backloading and get the same results guys seem to.
[quote]sambo123 wrote:
I didn’t buy the book, just seemed like there is SO much information online already. If you could PM me some numbers I’d really appreciate it. Thank you.[/quote]
Whats keeping you from buying the ebook? price?
Hey siouxfan can you check your PMs. thanks.
The price is definitely a factor (I’m a college student) but also it just seems like so much of the book’s content has been out online, much of it by Kiefer himself. And about the 50-100 grams figure, that seems a little low to me, if only because of what the ratio would be. So if I’m consuming an average of 150-180g of protein and I’m supposed to essentially match that with an equal content of fats, that would be around 165gP/165gF/75gC? Seems a little off, but hey that’s just me and I’ve admitted to not have purchased the book.
[quote]sambo123 wrote:
The price is definitely a factor (I’m a college student) but also it just seems like so much of the book’s content has been out online, much of it by Kiefer himself. And about the 50-100 grams figure, that seems a little low to me, if only because of what the ratio would be. So if I’m consuming an average of 150-180g of protein and I’m supposed to essentially match that with an equal content of fats, that would be around 165gP/165gF/75gC? Seems a little off, but hey that’s just me and I’ve admitted to not have purchased the book. [/quote]
as I mentioned. That is a rough starting level, I dont know your stats, goals or history. I would start low and add more if tolerated well.
Last night I ate give or take 200, woke up this morning and felt terrific. Tonight I shot for 300 to see if I could even tolerate that many, and I felt so over-full as soon as I drank something that I threw up. So until I have an idea of how many carbs I should be taking in, i might backload until I just can’t eat anymore carbs. I also haven’t used anything super dirty to backload with - cereal and nilla wafwers and banana pancakes are the dirtiest so far, no whole pizzas or cheesecakes ha. A big concern that I have is the ‘initial bloat’ that I’ve seen mentioned at the beginning of CBL. How severe is this and how long does it last?
I have been doing dirty loading for a few weeks now, and honestly I have hit a wall with it. By dirty I mean multiple bowls of cereal with fruit, pie, muffins ect. The bloating is the worst part. Drinking any water or anything is the worst. I am taking the “dont be a fat kid” to heart now, and am only going to be doing a little cleaner CBL.
[quote]Gl;itch.e wrote:
[quote]sambo123 wrote:
I didn’t buy the book, just seemed like there is SO much information online already. If you could PM me some numbers I’d really appreciate it. Thank you.[/quote]
Seriously I dont think its a hard and fast thing. It depends on your goals but Id start low and raise slowly until you start seeing adverse results. Find the sweet spot where performance and body comp balance where youd like. Even with the calculated recommendations youd still have to do this. So maybe since you are a girl start with 50-100grams and go from there. I know Kiefer says girls cant go hogwild on backloading and get the same results guys seem to.[/quote]
Yeah once I start backloading I’m starting at a lower end like around 200 grms or so and go from there. It just doesn’t make sense to me on how you can load upwards of 400 gms of carbs even if its after your workout and not only not get fat but get a better body comp. I always followed the logic that you need to earn your carbs (and calories in general) which lead me to a lot of questions about the book and I’m hoping someone can chime in and explain some of this.
-
Is anyone really doing workouts that deplete your glycogen levels to such a degree that you could ingest 400, 500 or 600 or more grms of carbs a night and not get fat? Because that’s what the table shows for someone around 200lbs.
-
Also I’m confused about the dirty carb up. I understand the purpose of the very high glycemic part of the carb up, but if those foods especially the ones he recommends are loaded with sugar then you’re basically getting a lot of fructose and not really getting a proper glycogen load and may actually be gaining fat. He recommends pastries, ice cream etc., this doesn’t make sense to me.
-
Another confusing fact with the foods he recommends during the dirty carb is also that they’re also high in fat. In the book the table recommends roughly 36 grms of fat a day(unless I’m reading it wrong). Someone will easily go over that just during the low carb part of the diet early in the day, how can you ingest a whole pizza at night with ice cream?
-
Also wouldn’t the fat slow down the absorbtion of the carbs even to a small degree and thereby negating the high glycemic goal?
Maybe I’m missing something but this is all very confusing to me.
[quote]pshannon wrote:
I have been doing dirty loading for a few weeks now, and honestly I have hit a wall with it. By dirty I mean multiple bowls of cereal with fruit, pie, muffins ect. The bloating is the worst part. Drinking any water or anything is the worst. I am taking the “dont be a fat kid” to heart now, and am only going to be doing a little cleaner CBL.
[/quote]
I think that tonight I might try a cleaner backload. Maybe some yams and a doughnut or something. And although baking while on this is big, I’m not sure how much of that I’ll be doing. I understand why a lot of the CBL is done dirty though, I cannot imagine legitimately trying to get 700g of carbs from fruit or yams lol
That would be like 28 bananas.
[quote]as wrote:
[quote]Gl;itch.e wrote:
[quote]sambo123 wrote:
I didn’t buy the book, just seemed like there is SO much information online already. If you could PM me some numbers I’d really appreciate it. Thank you.[/quote]
Seriously I dont think its a hard and fast thing. It depends on your goals but Id start low and raise slowly until you start seeing adverse results. Find the sweet spot where performance and body comp balance where youd like. Even with the calculated recommendations youd still have to do this. So maybe since you are a girl start with 50-100grams and go from there. I know Kiefer says girls cant go hogwild on backloading and get the same results guys seem to.[/quote]
Yeah once I start backloading I’m starting at a lower end like around 200 grms or so and go from there. It just doesn’t make sense to me on how you can load upwards of 400 gms of carbs even if its after your workout and not only not get fat but get a better body comp. I always followed the logic that you need to earn your carbs (and calories in general) which lead me to a lot of questions about the book and I’m hoping someone can chime in and explain some of this.
-
Is anyone really doing workouts that deplete your glycogen levels to such a degree that you could ingest 400, 500 or 600 or more grms of carbs a night and not get fat? Because that’s what the table shows for someone around 200lbs.
-
Also I’m confused about the dirty carb up. I understand the purpose of the very high glycemic part of the carb up, but if those foods especially the ones he recommends are loaded with sugar then you’re basically getting a lot of fructose and not really getting a proper glycogen load and may actually be gaining fat. He recommends pastries, ice cream etc., this doesn’t make sense to me.
-
Another confusing fact with the foods he recommends during the dirty carb is also that they’re also high in fat. In the book the table recommends roughly 36 grms of fat a day(unless I’m reading it wrong). Someone will easily go over that just during the low carb part of the diet early in the day, how can you ingest a whole pizza at night with ice cream?
-
Also wouldn’t the fat slow down the absorbtion of the carbs even to a small degree and thereby negating the high glycemic goal?
Maybe I’m missing something but this is all very confusing to me.[/quote]
I see what you are saying man, but seriously give it a chance. I’ve been eating upward of 550g Carbs on training days and before this seemed intolerant to carbs (basically fat stored all on hip/love handle area, which some believe is a sign of bad insulin sensitivity), and I’m getting leaner week by week and staying in the same 5lb range of BW. I had the same fears you had going in, but honestly all I can tell you is give it an honest try.
The best way I’ve dealt with the fat content, is obviously try to eat as little ‘fatty’ sources as possible, but from research I’ve read, anything under something like 80g doesn’t really blunt insulin spike responses all to significantly, so that’s the number i try to stay under.
[quote]sambo123 wrote:
[quote]pshannon wrote:
I have been doing dirty loading for a few weeks now, and honestly I have hit a wall with it. By dirty I mean multiple bowls of cereal with fruit, pie, muffins ect. The bloating is the worst part. Drinking any water or anything is the worst. I am taking the “dont be a fat kid” to heart now, and am only going to be doing a little cleaner CBL.
[/quote]
I think that tonight I might try a cleaner backload. Maybe some yams and a doughnut or something. And although baking while on this is big, I’m not sure how much of that I’ll be doing. I understand why a lot of the CBL is done dirty though, I cannot imagine legitimately trying to get 700g of carbs from fruit or yams lol
That would be like 28 bananas.[/quote]
Have you tried jasmine or sticky white rice? I can get through 4-6 cups (cooked) of it easy. If you use carb powders like dextrose or even gatorade, you can get in a solid amount of easy carbs that don’t seem to bloat most. I think you will have to play around with it. I know cereal like lucky charms bloats me, but fruity pebbles cause no issues…
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
[quote]sambo123 wrote:
[quote]pshannon wrote:
I have been doing dirty loading for a few weeks now, and honestly I have hit a wall with it. By dirty I mean multiple bowls of cereal with fruit, pie, muffins ect. The bloating is the worst part. Drinking any water or anything is the worst. I am taking the “dont be a fat kid” to heart now, and am only going to be doing a little cleaner CBL.
[/quote]
I think that tonight I might try a cleaner backload. Maybe some yams and a doughnut or something. And although baking while on this is big, I’m not sure how much of that I’ll be doing. I understand why a lot of the CBL is done dirty though, I cannot imagine legitimately trying to get 700g of carbs from fruit or yams lol
That would be like 28 bananas.[/quote]
Have you tried jasmine or sticky white rice? I can get through 4-6 cups (cooked) of it easy. If you use carb powders like dextrose or even gatorade, you can get in a solid amount of easy carbs that don’t seem to bloat most. I think you will have to play around with it. I know cereal like lucky charms bloats me, but fruity pebbles cause no issues…[/quote]
I’m not really a big fan of rice and stuff, but I’m going to try tonight with some yams, a few cupcakes, and probably a banana and a bagel and see how I do with that. The cupcakes are not store bought, so I guess that’s good. During the day I usually eat an egg/bacon/sausage scramble and a protein shake or two, so my caloric intake is fairly low until the evening, is that how it is supposed to work? I have to say though, I am feeling awesome in the gym and had a great workout today.
[quote]sambo123 wrote:
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
[quote]sambo123 wrote:
[quote]pshannon wrote:
I have been doing dirty loading for a few weeks now, and honestly I have hit a wall with it. By dirty I mean multiple bowls of cereal with fruit, pie, muffins ect. The bloating is the worst part. Drinking any water or anything is the worst. I am taking the “dont be a fat kid” to heart now, and am only going to be doing a little cleaner CBL.
[/quote]
I think that tonight I might try a cleaner backload. Maybe some yams and a doughnut or something. And although baking while on this is big, I’m not sure how much of that I’ll be doing. I understand why a lot of the CBL is done dirty though, I cannot imagine legitimately trying to get 700g of carbs from fruit or yams lol
That would be like 28 bananas.[/quote]
Have you tried jasmine or sticky white rice? I can get through 4-6 cups (cooked) of it easy. If you use carb powders like dextrose or even gatorade, you can get in a solid amount of easy carbs that don’t seem to bloat most. I think you will have to play around with it. I know cereal like lucky charms bloats me, but fruity pebbles cause no issues…[/quote]
I’m not really a big fan of rice and stuff, but I’m going to try tonight with some yams, a few cupcakes, and probably a banana and a bagel and see how I do with that. The cupcakes are not store bought, so I guess that’s good. During the day I usually eat an egg/bacon/sausage scramble and a protein shake or two, so my caloric intake is fairly low until the evening, is that how it is supposed to work? I have to say though, I am feeling awesome in the gym and had a great workout today.[/quote]
Well as long as you can hit your numbers with those foods, then go for it man. On my training days, all i eat earlier in the days is a protein shake, some VCO, and some cottage cheese, then get in the rest of 4000 daily kcal afterwards. So if you have the appetite to do it, and feel great in the gym, keep at it!
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
[quote]sambo123 wrote:
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
[quote]sambo123 wrote:
[quote]pshannon wrote:
I have been doing dirty loading for a few weeks now, and honestly I have hit a wall with it. By dirty I mean multiple bowls of cereal with fruit, pie, muffins ect. The bloating is the worst part. Drinking any water or anything is the worst. I am taking the “dont be a fat kid” to heart now, and am only going to be doing a little cleaner CBL.
[/quote]
I think that tonight I might try a cleaner backload. Maybe some yams and a doughnut or something. And although baking while on this is big, I’m not sure how much of that I’ll be doing. I understand why a lot of the CBL is done dirty though, I cannot imagine legitimately trying to get 700g of carbs from fruit or yams lol
That would be like 28 bananas.[/quote]
Have you tried jasmine or sticky white rice? I can get through 4-6 cups (cooked) of it easy. If you use carb powders like dextrose or even gatorade, you can get in a solid amount of easy carbs that don’t seem to bloat most. I think you will have to play around with it. I know cereal like lucky charms bloats me, but fruity pebbles cause no issues…[/quote]
I’m not really a big fan of rice and stuff, but I’m going to try tonight with some yams, a few cupcakes, and probably a banana and a bagel and see how I do with that. The cupcakes are not store bought, so I guess that’s good. During the day I usually eat an egg/bacon/sausage scramble and a protein shake or two, so my caloric intake is fairly low until the evening, is that how it is supposed to work? I have to say though, I am feeling awesome in the gym and had a great workout today.[/quote]
Well as long as you can hit your numbers with those foods, then go for it man. On my training days, all i eat earlier in the days is a protein shake, some VCO, and some cottage cheese, then get in the rest of 4000 daily kcal afterwards. So if you have the appetite to do it, and feel great in the gym, keep at it![/quote]
Aside from the bloating, I feel awesome. Lifting more too and tonight is only my third night CBL. I was initially turned onto CBL because I would he able to eat more ‘normally’. I used to eat like a saint, and at specific times only ultra clean meals and my fiancee told me that my 'diet’tuition was beginning to take over our lives. The more I thought about it I realized that this was totally correct and that something had to change. Thus I came across CBL. Now I’m running about 7lbs heavier than before I started, which I’m chalking up to the water/bloat because before this I had been eating super low carb for a long time, so low carb that I only ran the prep for three days. But the freedom it’s given me is fantastic. And I’m certainly enjoying the ability to lift a bit heavier.
[quote]sambo123 wrote:
Aside from the bloating, I feel awesome. Lifting more too and tonight is only my third night CBL. I was initially turned onto CBL because I would he able to eat more ‘normally’. I used to eat like a saint, and at specific times only ultra clean meals and my fiancee told me that my 'diet’tuition was beginning to take over our lives. The more I thought about it I realized that this was totally correct and that something had to change. Thus I came across CBL. Now I’m running about 7lbs heavier than before I started, which I’m chalking up to the water/bloat because before this I had been eating super low carb for a long time, so low carb that I only ran the prep for three days. But the freedom it’s given me is fantastic. And I’m certainly enjoying the ability to lift a bit heavier.
[/quote]
Not to knock you so early into it, but perhaps backoff on the carbs a little. Bloating should be gone by morning otherwise you are eating too much. If youve been low carbing for ages you dont need a lot of carbs to get a super anabolic response. Id caution you again to ease into it rather than “Well last night I had 200grams and didnt get fat, so tonight Ill have 300grams of carbs!”
We havent got your stats or goals yet either. Im a male 5’11" 30 years old and last time I weighed myself I was around 198lbs. I have dropped a ton of fat IFing and Carb Backloading since then but lost no strength, which in theory means no muscle loss. I only take about 300grams of carbs PWO. You are a girl so probably dont need that much or more unless you are “Density Bulking”
[quote]as wrote:
Yeah once I start backloading I’m starting at a lower end like around 200 grms or so and go from there. It just doesn’t make sense to me on how you can load upwards of 400 gms of carbs even if its after your workout and not only not get fat but get a better body comp. I always followed the logic that you need to earn your carbs (and calories in general) which lead me to a lot of questions about the book and I’m hoping someone can chime in and explain some of this.
- Is anyone really doing workouts that deplete your glycogen levels to such a degree that you could ingest 400, 500 or 600 or more grms of carbs a night and not get fat? Because that’s what the table shows for someone around 200lbs. [/quote]
Its not all about the glycogen replenishment though. A lot of the carbs are wasted through thermogenesis; and beyond pure glycogen replenishment you still need the insulin response and caloric load to power muscle growth.
[quote]
2. Also I’m confused about the dirty carb up. I understand the purpose of the very high glycemic part of the carb up, but if those foods especially the ones he recommends are loaded with sugar then you’re basically getting a lot of fructose and not really getting a proper glycogen load and may actually be gaining fat. He recommends pastries, ice cream etc., this doesn’t make sense to me.[/quote]
shouldnt be much fructose in these really. If they are using table sugar as ingrediants its about40/60 glucose/fructose isnt it? yeah it probably adds up but you just adjust the types of foods. I think Kiefer says you can get about 60grams of fructose PWO without much trouble. Yes it does go to the liver first but then still helps to replenish glycogen if needed.
[quote]
3. Another confusing fact with the foods he recommends during the dirty carb is also that they’re also high in fat. In the book the table recommends roughly 36 grms of fat a day(unless I’m reading it wrong). Someone will easily go over that just during the low carb part of the diet early in the day, how can you ingest a whole pizza at night with ice cream? [/quote]
This is something I wish Kiefer would expand on. But much like Sioux says I feel he is holding some info back for his clients. He has talked about how triglycerides can be preferentially stored in muscle PWO though.
[quote]
4. Also wouldn’t the fat slow down the absorbtion of the carbs even to a small degree and thereby negating the high glycemic goal?[/quote]
Apparently unless you are eating heaps of fats (I think it was over 60-70grams in a meal) it has very little effect on blunting the response to High GI Carbs. I cant remember where I got this from though. It might have been Martin Berkhan’s blog.