Carb Back Loading

Nutrition
521

[quote]JLone wrote:

[quote]StateOfPsychosis wrote:
just going with 190lbs the book says you need 770g carbs. [/quote]
That is impossible…[/quote]

Mine said my baseline was 900g. That was the baseline. To neither gain nor lose weight. I don’t even think Ronnie Coleman ate 900g of carbs. Like I’ve said before, I think Kiefer is on to something here. To be able to eat like I have and keep my weight gain to almost zero is impressive.

However, I think he still has some tricks in his pocket. Otherwise how would he still be in business with personal consults? It’s like the difference between reading about Westside Barbells workouts online and being at the gym itself. Yeah you’ll make decent progress on your own, but there are subtle things that only the inventor knows about.

Just my .02

522

[quote]JLone wrote:

[quote]StateOfPsychosis wrote:
just going with 190lbs the book says you need 770g carbs. [/quote]
That is impossible…[/quote]
theee fuck

523

Okay, so I was the guy a few pages back doing the bastardized version of the Warrior diet which looks oddly like carb backloading having never read the book.

Anyways, I have committed myself to eating under 30grams of carbs on non-workout days. But since I really like wolfing down a big carb heavy meal after I lift I find myself lifting 6-7 days a week. So my question is, does the book say anything about a mandatory number of off days or low carb days?

And like my post above I don’t get nearly 700+ carbs. I would estimate it is more like 300ish most days, 500 max.

524

[quote]JLone wrote:
Okay, so I was the guy a few pages back doing the bastardized version of the Warrior diet which looks oddly like carb backloading having never read the book.

Anyways, I have committed myself to eating under 30grams of carbs on non-workout days. But since I really like wolfing down a big carb heavy meal after I lift I find myself lifting 6-7 days a week. So my question is, does the book say anything about a mandatory number of off days or low carb days?

And like my post above I don’t get nearly 700+ carbs. I would estimate it is more like 300ish most days, 500 max.[/quote]

Don’t worry about it. I seriously think the carb baselines are WAY over estimated. I’m 240 with a “supposed” 7.5% bf. I say it like that because I look more like 14%, but I was checked and that’s what they gave me. Anyways, I rarely go over 400g on training days, and keep it below 30 on the non days. And no It doesn’t. Nothing about mandatory off days.

525

[quote]phishfood1128 wrote:
I am curious to try CBL but due to time constraints I lift from 5:30 - 7:00.

I have read he suggests you change you schedule. I cant.

The only suggestion i have found is to workout fasted (just coffee/heavy cream) and then spike insulin after the workout (without carbs) using casein hydrolosate/leucine/whey isolate.

Just curious if the book contains any infor on CBL for working out in the mornings.[/quote]
You can do it but it wouldnt be quite as good. Keifer suggests large doses of caffiene to produce a insulin resistant state. Workout. A small amount of carbs with protein post workout. Eat low carb the rest of the day and then backload your carbs later that night.

526

[quote]Siouxfan wrote:

[quote]JLone wrote:
Okay, so I was the guy a few pages back doing the bastardized version of the Warrior diet which looks oddly like carb backloading having never read the book.

Anyways, I have committed myself to eating under 30grams of carbs on non-workout days. But since I really like wolfing down a big carb heavy meal after I lift I find myself lifting 6-7 days a week. So my question is, does the book say anything about a mandatory number of off days or low carb days?

And like my post above I don’t get nearly 700+ carbs. I would estimate it is more like 300ish most days, 500 max.[/quote]

Don’t worry about it. I seriously think the carb baselines are WAY over estimated. I’m 240 with a “supposed” 7.5% bf. I say it like that because I look more like 14%, but I was checked and that’s what they gave me. Anyways, I rarely go over 400g on training days, and keep it below 30 on the non days. And no It doesn’t. Nothing about mandatory off days. [/quote]

Well, I have been trying this out and have essentially been eating 3-400 carbs a night (every night) and I’ve lost 4 pounds in about a week and a half. I’m going to be adding in some more liquid carbs because I’m about at stomach capacity at this point.

527

[quote]Siouxfan wrote:

[quote]JLone wrote:

[quote]StateOfPsychosis wrote:
just going with 190lbs the book says you need 770g carbs. [/quote]
That is impossible…[/quote]

Mine said my baseline was 900g. That was the baseline. To neither gain nor lose weight. I don’t even think Ronnie Coleman ate 900g of carbs. Like I’ve said before, I think Kiefer is on to something here. To be able to eat like I have and keep my weight gain to almost zero is impressive.

However, I think he still has some tricks in his pocket. Otherwise how would he still be in business with personal consults? It’s like the difference between reading about Westside Barbells workouts online and being at the gym itself. Yeah you’ll make decent progress on your own, but there are subtle things that only the inventor knows about.

Just my .02[/quote]

Yea sorry, forgot to mention that was baseline. Just quoting from the book.
This past week I’ve been doing 8-900g carbs during the backloads and feel great.

528

[quote]StateOfPsychosis wrote:

[quote]Siouxfan wrote:

[quote]JLone wrote:

[quote]StateOfPsychosis wrote:
just going with 190lbs the book says you need 770g carbs. [/quote]
That is impossible…[/quote]

Mine said my baseline was 900g. That was the baseline. To neither gain nor lose weight. I don’t even think Ronnie Coleman ate 900g of carbs. Like I’ve said before, I think Kiefer is on to something here. To be able to eat like I have and keep my weight gain to almost zero is impressive.

However, I think he still has some tricks in his pocket. Otherwise how would he still be in business with personal consults? It’s like the difference between reading about Westside Barbells workouts online and being at the gym itself. Yeah you’ll make decent progress on your own, but there are subtle things that only the inventor knows about.

Just my .02[/quote]

Yea sorry, forgot to mention that was baseline. Just quoting from the book.
This past week I’ve been doing 8-900g carbs during the backloads and feel great.
[/quote]

Haha well fuck me! Maybe I need to redo the prep again. I’ll see how this week goes with my weight (this morning after backload was at 241, half pound lighter than day before) and re-asses towards the weekend. You guys probably have more self control than I do anyway :).

529

[quote]phishfood1128 wrote:
I am curious to try CBL but due to time constraints I lift from 5:30 - 7:00.

I have read he suggests you change you schedule. I cant.

The only suggestion i have found is to workout fasted (just coffee/heavy cream) and then spike insulin after the workout (without carbs) using casein hydrolosate/leucine/whey isolate.

Just curious if the book contains any infor on CBL for working out in the mornings.[/quote]

Use leucine and some kind of hydrolyzed casein to spike insulin post wokrout. THen do a solid protein only mean a bit after that. Make it good sized. Then alternated pro/fat and pro only meals until night time. Then do a carbload. I actually posted some research and thoughts on this earlier you will actually end up with heightened insulin sensitivty and responsiveness (hypothetically). So your resutls should be just fine and maybe better because of this.

530

[quote]Siouxfan wrote:

[quote]JLone wrote:
Okay, so I was the guy a few pages back doing the bastardized version of the Warrior diet which looks oddly like carb backloading having never read the book.

Anyways, I have committed myself to eating under 30grams of carbs on non-workout days. But since I really like wolfing down a big carb heavy meal after I lift I find myself lifting 6-7 days a week. So my question is, does the book say anything about a mandatory number of off days or low carb days?

And like my post above I don’t get nearly 700+ carbs. I would estimate it is more like 300ish most days, 500 max.[/quote]

I do the same thing. I like my carbs so much and love working out that its 6 days a week for me. Works just fine. 400-600g of carbs and i will be bumping this up soon. I am only 195

Keifer suggests pushing things in the carb category. Who knows what your limit is if you just stick at 400. Maybe you could do 500, 600 ect and see even better progress. You wont know till you try

Don’t worry about it. I seriously think the carb baselines are WAY over estimated. I’m 240 with a “supposed” 7.5% bf. I say it like that because I look more like 14%, but I was checked and that’s what they gave me. Anyways, I rarely go over 400g on training days, and keep it below 30 on the non days. And no It doesn’t. Nothing about mandatory off days. [/quote]

531

[quote]Gl;itch.e wrote:

[quote]phishfood1128 wrote:
I am curious to try CBL but due to time constraints I lift from 5:30 - 7:00.

I have read he suggests you change you schedule. I cant.

The only suggestion i have found is to workout fasted (just coffee/heavy cream) and then spike insulin after the workout (without carbs) using casein hydrolosate/leucine/whey isolate.

Just curious if the book contains any infor on CBL for working out in the mornings.[/quote]
You can do it but it wouldnt be quite as good. Keifer suggests large doses of caffiene to produce a insulin resistant state. Workout. A small amount of carbs with protein post workout. Eat low carb the rest of the day and then backload your carbs later that night. [/quote]

In the book he does not reccomend any carbs post workout. And from other research i have read it would be unwise to do have even a small amount of carbs postworkout in the morning then try and carb load latter. That small amount of carbs will greatly reduce the insulin sensitivity that will remain and even heighten post workout if carbs are with held.

532

[quote]Siouxfan wrote:

[quote]StateOfPsychosis wrote:

[quote]Siouxfan wrote:

[quote]JLone wrote:

[quote]StateOfPsychosis wrote:
just going with 190lbs the book says you need 770g carbs. [/quote]
That is impossible…[/quote]

Mine said my baseline was 900g. That was the baseline. To neither gain nor lose weight. I don’t even think Ronnie Coleman ate 900g of carbs. Like I’ve said before, I think Kiefer is on to something here. To be able to eat like I have and keep my weight gain to almost zero is impressive.

However, I think he still has some tricks in his pocket. Otherwise how would he still be in business with personal consults? It’s like the difference between reading about Westside Barbells workouts online and being at the gym itself. Yeah you’ll make decent progress on your own, but there are subtle things that only the inventor knows about.

Just my .02[/quote]

Yea sorry, forgot to mention that was baseline. Just quoting from the book.
This past week I’ve been doing 8-900g carbs during the backloads and feel great.
[/quote]

Haha well fuck me! Maybe I need to redo the prep again. I’ll see how this week goes with my weight (this morning after backload was at 241, half pound lighter than day before) and re-asses towards the weekend. You guys probably have more self control than I do anyway :).
[/quote]

Soiux i know you like dem dirty carbs and this is from my own observations and research on other sites and what not. But high fat curing my carb loads makes me gain fat. No fat or low fat during my carb loads allows me to eat even more carbs and not gain any fat.

For example for a while i was doing only 400g of carbs but adding in PB and some fattier cheese (so really only 30g -maybe 50g) on top of the incidentals and i would start gaining fat. I then dropped the added fat and went up to 600g of carb or a bit higher and stopped gaining fat.

Also from reading on John Meadows website there is a good article about circdirian rythems and eating. Bascially it advocated CBL type eating. Fats and pro in the morning which helps increase fat metabolism. And carbs at night and even better if they are pWO carbs. But he advocates limiting fat as he states that is messes with metabolism and will increase body fat deposition.

Just some thoughts for experimenting. You might want to try and limit the fat intake pwo and keep carbs the same or increase. As you increase carbs you wont want fat to increase likely you want it to decrease. So in stead of a full fat cheesecake make a homemade low fat one.( i have some very good recipes if you want). Or ice cream instead of normal buy low or no fat (great for bascially straight delcious easy to eat carbs) Just some thoughts

533

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

In the book he does not reccomend any carbs post workout. And from other research i have read it would be unwise to do have even a small amount of carbs postworkout in the morning then try and carb load latter. That small amount of carbs will greatly reduce the insulin sensitivity that will remain and even heighten post workout if carbs are with held.[/quote]

Well it may not be in the book but Ive seen him recommend this recently. It probably depends on goals though. Size: then need carbs postworkout. Fatloss: fore go the carbs.

534

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]phishfood1128 wrote:
I am curious to try CBL but due to time constraints I lift from 5:30 - 7:00.

I have read he suggests you change you schedule. I cant.

The only suggestion i have found is to workout fasted (just coffee/heavy cream) and then spike insulin after the workout (without carbs) using casein hydrolosate/leucine/whey isolate.

Just curious if the book contains any infor on CBL for working out in the mornings.[/quote]

Use leucine and some kind of hydrolyzed casein to spike insulin post wokrout. THen do a solid protein only mean a bit after that. Make it good sized. Then alternated pro/fat and pro only meals until night time. Then do a carbload. I actually posted some research and thoughts on this earlier you will actually end up with heightened insulin sensitivty and responsiveness (hypothetically). So your resutls should be just fine and maybe better because of this.
[/quote]

I dont think Keifer has ever recommended a protein only meal. He generally suggests in the low carb part of the day to eat a 50:50 split of protein:fats in grams. Reason being at no point do you want the body to get used to running off protein as an enegry source.

535

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]Siouxfan wrote:

[quote]StateOfPsychosis wrote:

[quote]Siouxfan wrote:

[quote]JLone wrote:

[quote]StateOfPsychosis wrote:
just going with 190lbs the book says you need 770g carbs. [/quote]
That is impossible…[/quote]

Mine said my baseline was 900g. That was the baseline. To neither gain nor lose weight. I don’t even think Ronnie Coleman ate 900g of carbs. Like I’ve said before, I think Kiefer is on to something here. To be able to eat like I have and keep my weight gain to almost zero is impressive.

However, I think he still has some tricks in his pocket. Otherwise how would he still be in business with personal consults? It’s like the difference between reading about Westside Barbells workouts online and being at the gym itself. Yeah you’ll make decent progress on your own, but there are subtle things that only the inventor knows about.

Just my .02[/quote]

Yea sorry, forgot to mention that was baseline. Just quoting from the book.
This past week I’ve been doing 8-900g carbs during the backloads and feel great.
[/quote]

Haha well fuck me! Maybe I need to redo the prep again. I’ll see how this week goes with my weight (this morning after backload was at 241, half pound lighter than day before) and re-asses towards the weekend. You guys probably have more self control than I do anyway :).
[/quote]

Soiux i know you like dem dirty carbs and this is from my own observations and research on other sites and what not. But high fat curing my carb loads makes me gain fat. No fat or low fat during my carb loads allows me to eat even more carbs and not gain any fat.

For example for a while i was doing only 400g of carbs but adding in PB and some fattier cheese (so really only 30g -maybe 50g) on top of the incidentals and i would start gaining fat. I then dropped the added fat and went up to 600g of carb or a bit higher and stopped gaining fat.

Also from reading on John Meadows website there is a good article about circdirian rythems and eating. Bascially it advocated CBL type eating. Fats and pro in the morning which helps increase fat metabolism. And carbs at night and even better if they are pWO carbs. But he advocates limiting fat as he states that is messes with metabolism and will increase body fat deposition.

Just some thoughts for experimenting. You might want to try and limit the fat intake pwo and keep carbs the same or increase. As you increase carbs you wont want fat to increase likely you want it to decrease. So in stead of a full fat cheesecake make a homemade low fat one.( i have some very good recipes if you want). Or ice cream instead of normal buy low or no fat (great for bascially straight delcious easy to eat carbs) Just some thoughts[/quote]

Well damn. I sure do love PB in my shakes lol. And it’s too much sugar to use in the first half of the day :frowning:

536

[quote]Siouxfan wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]Siouxfan wrote:

[quote]StateOfPsychosis wrote:

[quote]Siouxfan wrote:

[quote]JLone wrote:

[quote]StateOfPsychosis wrote:
just going with 190lbs the book says you need 770g carbs. [/quote]
That is impossible…[/quote]

Mine said my baseline was 900g. That was the baseline. To neither gain nor lose weight. I don’t even think Ronnie Coleman ate 900g of carbs. Like I’ve said before, I think Kiefer is on to something here. To be able to eat like I have and keep my weight gain to almost zero is impressive.

However, I think he still has some tricks in his pocket. Otherwise how would he still be in business with personal consults? It’s like the difference between reading about Westside Barbells workouts online and being at the gym itself. Yeah you’ll make decent progress on your own, but there are subtle things that only the inventor knows about.

Just my .02[/quote]

Yea sorry, forgot to mention that was baseline. Just quoting from the book.
This past week I’ve been doing 8-900g carbs during the backloads and feel great.
[/quote]

Haha well fuck me! Maybe I need to redo the prep again. I’ll see how this week goes with my weight (this morning after backload was at 241, half pound lighter than day before) and re-asses towards the weekend. You guys probably have more self control than I do anyway :).
[/quote]

Soiux i know you like dem dirty carbs and this is from my own observations and research on other sites and what not. But high fat curing my carb loads makes me gain fat. No fat or low fat during my carb loads allows me to eat even more carbs and not gain any fat.

For example for a while i was doing only 400g of carbs but adding in PB and some fattier cheese (so really only 30g -maybe 50g) on top of the incidentals and i would start gaining fat. I then dropped the added fat and went up to 600g of carb or a bit higher and stopped gaining fat.

Also from reading on John Meadows website there is a good article about circdirian rythems and eating. Bascially it advocated CBL type eating. Fats and pro in the morning which helps increase fat metabolism. And carbs at night and even better if they are pWO carbs. But he advocates limiting fat as he states that is messes with metabolism and will increase body fat deposition.

Just some thoughts for experimenting. You might want to try and limit the fat intake pwo and keep carbs the same or increase. As you increase carbs you wont want fat to increase likely you want it to decrease. So in stead of a full fat cheesecake make a homemade low fat one.( i have some very good recipes if you want). Or ice cream instead of normal buy low or no fat (great for bascially straight delcious easy to eat carbs) Just some thoughts[/quote]

Well damn. I sure do love PB in my shakes lol. And it’s too much sugar to use in the first half of the day :([/quote]

You have sugar in your PB? Get the natural stuff its way better in taste and for your body.

537

[quote]Gl;itch.e wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]phishfood1128 wrote:
I am curious to try CBL but due to time constraints I lift from 5:30 - 7:00.

I have read he suggests you change you schedule. I cant.

The only suggestion i have found is to workout fasted (just coffee/heavy cream) and then spike insulin after the workout (without carbs) using casein hydrolosate/leucine/whey isolate.

Just curious if the book contains any infor on CBL for working out in the mornings.[/quote]

Use leucine and some kind of hydrolyzed casein to spike insulin post wokrout. THen do a solid protein only mean a bit after that. Make it good sized. Then alternated pro/fat and pro only meals until night time. Then do a carbload. I actually posted some research and thoughts on this earlier you will actually end up with heightened insulin sensitivty and responsiveness (hypothetically). So your resutls should be just fine and maybe better because of this.
[/quote]

I dont think Keifer has ever recommended a protein only meal. He generally suggests in the low carb part of the day to eat a 50:50 split of protein:fats in grams. Reason being at no point do you want the body to get used to running off protein as an enegry source.[/quote]

Fat takes a lot of time to digest and there is no reason to keep adding fat in every meal. You do want a time during the day where your body can use some body fat for energy. Why would your body start using Pro for energy? Post workout it will be concerned about protein synthesis which is elevated from the training. So the protien you take is will be used for that. The insulin spike without carbs will also help with that as insulin is a potent activator of protein synthesis. Because of no carbs coming in your body will remain with this heightened state of insulin sensitivty until it gets some carbs. You will also get a bonus of fat burning during the time that the body is deprived of the carbs post workout. So adding in fat when you body could be burning it own fat seems counter productive to adding only lean mass

538

[quote]Gl;itch.e wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

In the book he does not reccomend any carbs post workout. And from other research i have read it would be unwise to do have even a small amount of carbs postworkout in the morning then try and carb load latter. That small amount of carbs will greatly reduce the insulin sensitivity that will remain and even heighten post workout if carbs are with held.[/quote]

Well it may not be in the book but Ive seen him recommend this recently. It probably depends on goals though. Size: then need carbs postworkout. Fatloss: fore go the carbs. [/quote]

Why do you need carbs post workout if you are not going to be weight trainng until the next day or even longer?

539

Even natural pb has sugars in it. But I really do prefer the skippy/jiff stuff. I’ve tried both and I don’t think it’s something I can give up lol

540

Oh your just talking about the carbs in it. I guess i dont consider it sugar but the label does say sugar doesnt it. You could have some PB that wouldnt put you over the carb limit? It certainly wouldnt make an insulin spike