Carb Back Loading

Nutrition
421

[quote]JLone wrote:

[quote]Siouxfan wrote:

[quote]JLone wrote:
On a serious note, would you say given your results that Keifers book is worth $89? I have been keeping an eye on this thread for awhile and toying with the idea of getting the book but can’t seem to justify the price. Would it be possible for someone that owns the book to use the snipping tool or take a screen shot of the table of contents? I can’t even find a list of topics discussed as that might make me pull the trigger. [/quote]

The majority of the book (think the first 30 chapters or so) is all about the science behind it. I’m not 100% sold on the book either even though I have it. I’m almost positive there are still some tricks kiefer has up his sleeve reserved for his paying clients that he didn’t include in the book. The actual backloading part is only about 5 chapters long or so. He’s also been developing some software to completely plan out diets for people as well that will be for public use. So you can type in all the info it needs and tell it you want to lean out, or bulk up and it’ll shit out a diet specifically for you. That’s something I’d wait for, not the book personally. Not that I think it was a bad purchase either, I just think the diet software will be better than the book is.
[/quote]
Thanks!

Backloading as I understand it so far:

Skip breakfast. First meal is 3+ hours after waking.
Fat and Protein meals only until post workout.
Workout should occur between 3pm and 5pm.
Carb and Protein until last meal by 9pm.
Carb heavy, consume the whole dayâ??s worth of carbs in the time after workout until last meal of the day.
Supplement with Leucine, Whey, Creatine, and Caffeine.[/quote]

Sounds like you have pretty much the entire backbone down

422

10:00 wake up
13:00 2 egg omelet with bacon & cheese - 4g carbs
15:00 600m swim
16:20 8oz chicken, brocoli, dressing - 3g carbs
17:15 Tea - 2g carbs
18:30 Shake - 6g carbs
19:30 Tea - 2g carbs
22:00 omelet, 3egg, 3oz chicken, cheese - 4g carbs

TOTAL: 21g carbs

423

A couple things:

  1. I too find it hard to justify purchasing a book for $89 when so much of the info on CBL can be pieced together from Kiefers writing. Not to mention, being down around 13% bf myself, I’ve realized that getting below that seems to be more a matter of me applying general principles and tweaking them. So far, after a few months of stalling, I’ve started to see more recomp progress by adding in CBL and reducing my fasting time a bit.

  2. I had no idea a career in air traffic control was like that. Seems like you need to have a certain personality type to be able to do that. How did you get interested in air traffic control and realize that’s what you wanted to do?

  3. Seems like you could get away with junk food on CBL if you’re carrying enough muscle or it’s after a particularly intense workout like squat day. I think it was on a recent podcast that Kiefer mentioned that someone like him at 6% and 220lbs (roughly) could get away with junkier carbs than someone at say 170-180 and 10%. I mean I can’t imagine x grams of sugar coming from a soda is any different than the same x grams coming from a cherry turnover. It’s not clear that HFCS is any worse than sugar.

424

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]JLone wrote:
Backloading as I understand it so far:

Skip breakfast. First meal is 3+ hours after waking.
Fat and Protein meals only until post workout.
Workout should occur between 3pm and 5pm.
Carb and Protein until last meal by 9pm.
Carb heavy, consume the whole day�¢??s worth of carbs in the time after workout until last meal of the day.
Supplement with Leucine, Whey, Creatine, and Caffeine.[/quote]

Sounds like you have pretty much the entire backbone down[/quote]
So here is my question, if anyone would be so kind.

For the past two months my diet has looked like this:

Skip breakfast
9:am Coffee with cream
10:am Coffee with cream
noon: two scoops low carb protein powder
2:pm Coffee with cream
4:30 Workout
5:30 two scoops of low carb protein, 1/2T Pyllium husks, 1T Cod liver oil
6:ish Dinner with meat veggie and carb (Big Meal)

I came up with this because it fit my schedule as a modified Warrior Diet. Just felt stupid to fast all day when I can enjoy my cream and protein shakes while I work. Also, I don’t do fruit which is what Ori seams to think you should snake on during the day.

SO my question, am I doing a modified warrior diet or carb back loading?

I get that the diffrence between Lean-Gains and Warrior is essentially the window of eating with minor tweaks to food choices. But, is the diffrence bewteen IF and Carb Backloading really just shakes and Fish oil during the day?

425

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
Going to try something different, putting all those fats I was eating on training days on Off days, and bumping up my carbs drastically on training days, to see if I can REALLY get some effective results from CBL.

Training Days: 135g F, 520g C, 230g P

Off Days: 160g F, 150g C, 230g P

Kind of hesitant, as I’ve never been crazy carb-tolerant, but so fat CBL as been wonderful for me, and so I have faith taking it one step further will simply amplify the results. I’ll try this out for th month of April, and evaluate results from there. [/quote]

If I recall Kiefer recommends 1:1 Protein/Fat grams - or at least Naomi said something about it on the forums. So if you’re getting 230g protein you’d have 230 fat too.

426

[quote]JLone wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]JLone wrote:
Backloading as I understand it so far:

Skip breakfast. First meal is 3+ hours after waking.
Fat and Protein meals only until post workout.
Workout should occur between 3pm and 5pm.
Carb and Protein until last meal by 9pm.
Carb heavy, consume the whole day�?�¢??s worth of carbs in the time after workout until last meal of the day.
Supplement with Leucine, Whey, Creatine, and Caffeine.[/quote]

Sounds like you have pretty much the entire backbone down[/quote]
So here is my question, if anyone would be so kind.

For the past two months my diet has looked like this:

Skip breakfast
9:am Coffee with cream
10:am Coffee with cream
noon: two scoops low carb protein powder
2:pm Coffee with cream
4:30 Workout
5:30 two scoops of low carb protein, 1/2T Pyllium husks, 1T Cod liver oil
6:ish Dinner with meat veggie and carb (Big Meal)

I came up with this because it fit my schedule as a modified Warrior Diet. Just felt stupid to fast all day when I can enjoy my cream and protein shakes while I work. Also, I don’t do fruit which is what Ori seams to think you should snake on during the day.

SO my question, am I doing a modified warrior diet or carb back loading?

I get that the diffrence between Lean-Gains and Warrior is essentially the window of eating with minor tweaks to food choices. But, is the diffrence bewteen IF and Carb Backloading really just shakes and Fish oil during the day? [/quote]

The only thing I can suggest to keep it true to CBL is to keep the fiber shakes and fiberous veggies to before your workout. So perhaps switch the protein powder to a chicken and brocoli type meal. and the shake PWO. Don’t forget an insulin spiking carb in the PWO shake, like dextrose, or a nice ripe banana.

427

[quote]ds1973 wrote:
A couple things:

  1. I too find it hard to justify purchasing a book for $89 when so much of the info on CBL can be pieced together from Kiefers writing. Not to mention, being down around 13% bf myself, I’ve realized that getting below that seems to be more a matter of me applying general principles and tweaking them. So far, after a few months of stalling, I’ve started to see more recomp progress by adding in CBL and reducing my fasting time a bit.

  2. I had no idea a career in air traffic control was like that. Seems like you need to have a certain personality type to be able to do that. How did you get interested in air traffic control and realize that’s what you wanted to do?

  3. Seems like you could get away with junk food on CBL if you’re carrying enough muscle or it’s after a particularly intense workout like squat day. I think it was on a recent podcast that Kiefer mentioned that someone like him at 6% and 220lbs (roughly) could get away with junkier carbs than someone at say 170-180 and 10%. I mean I can’t imagine x grams of sugar coming from a soda is any different than the same x grams coming from a cherry turnover. It’s not clear that HFCS is any worse than sugar.[/quote]

I may be making it sound worse than it is, but we’re required to maintain a class II medical to keep our jobs. I don’t know how extensive the banned medication list is, but here is a list of what they feel is acceptable http://www.leftseat.com/medcat1.htm. I’ve heard it’s stressful as well, but it all depends on how you deal with it. It’s one of the few jobs you don’t have to take home with you. Once you leave your facility you don’t have to worry about anything, which helps. When I was in high school it was a toss up between becoming a cop or doing ATC. I decided ATC because I wouldn’t get shot at, but I still think being a cop could be fun. My dad is a pilot, and pretty much made it a family activity when I was growing up, so I fell into it as well. I didn’t want to fly for a living, so I’m going to be doing the next best thing. Another reason besides the stringent medical requirements would be my interest in competing in fitness modeling first, then onto to bodybuilding. So I’ll need a much stricter diet for those times.

428

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
Going to try something different, putting all those fats I was eating on training days on Off days, and bumping up my carbs drastically on training days, to see if I can REALLY get some effective results from CBL.

Training Days: 135g F, 520g C, 230g P

Off Days: 160g F, 150g C, 230g P

Kind of hesitant, as I’ve never been crazy carb-tolerant, but so fat CBL as been wonderful for me, and so I have faith taking it one step further will simply amplify the results. I’ll try this out for th month of April, and evaluate results from there. [/quote]

If I recall Kiefer recommends 1:1 Protein/Fat grams - or at least Naomi said something about it on the forums. So if you’re getting 230g protein you’d have 230 fat too.[/quote]

230g of fats? I thought it was at least a 1:1 in calories, not grams. Well I guess I’m going to up my VCO and EVOO consumption. Curious LM, how many grams of fat do you get on off days, and what foods do you use to get it??

429

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
Going to try something different, putting all those fats I was eating on training days on Off days, and bumping up my carbs drastically on training days, to see if I can REALLY get some effective results from CBL.

Training Days: 135g F, 520g C, 230g P

Off Days: 160g F, 150g C, 230g P

Kind of hesitant, as I’ve never been crazy carb-tolerant, but so fat CBL as been wonderful for me, and so I have faith taking it one step further will simply amplify the results. I’ll try this out for th month of April, and evaluate results from there. [/quote]

If I recall Kiefer recommends 1:1 Protein/Fat grams - or at least Naomi said something about it on the forums. So if you’re getting 230g protein you’d have 230 fat too.[/quote]

230g of fats? I thought it was at least a 1:1 in calories, not grams. Well I guess I’m going to up my VCO and EVOO consumption. Curious LM, how many grams of fat do you get on off days, and what foods do you use to get it??
[/quote]

Bacon. MOAR BACON

430

8:00 wake up
coffee with cream + stevia - 2g carbs
13:00 Omelet - 4g carbs
13:30 Fiber shake and joint pills
15:00 GYM

Smith machine rows: 205x8, 225x8, 235x8, 245x8

One arm BB row: 85x8, 95x8, 105x8, 115x8

Underhand lat pulls: 225x10, 195x10, 195x10

DB pullovers: 85x10, 85x10, 85x10

45 hypers w/db: 85x10/10, 85x10/10, 85x10/10 (drop dbell and do 10 bdyweight)

PWO shake: 1cup milk, 30g dextrose, 5 strawberries - 60g carbs

18:30 10oz rice, BBQ sauce, 6oz chicken - 75g carbs
18:45 chocolates - 25g carbs
19:00 same chicken and rice as above - 75g carbs
20:00 4 redvines - 35g carbs
22:00 Chocolates - 50g carbs

TOTAL: 326g carbs

431

11:00 wake up
13:00 Omelet - 6g carbs
14:20 Fiber shake + joint pills
15:00 GYM

Calves standing: 195x10, 195x10, 195x10, 115x20

Seated calf: 3pltx15/2pltx10/1pltx20 (drop set)

Quad set 1

Rope pushdowns: 57.5x12, 57.5x12, 65x12, 65x12
ss
DB seated curls: 35x12, 35x12, 35x12, 35x12
ss
Cable kickbacks: 15x12, 20x12, 20x12, 20x12
ss
EZ bar neg curl: 40x12, 40x12, 30x12, 30x12

Quad set 2

Dips: bdyx6, bdyx6, bdyx6
ss
E bar curl: 50x6, 50x6, 50x6
ss
Skull crusher: 50x8, 60x8, 60x8
ss
DB hammer curl: 35x7, 35x7, 35x7

18:00 PWO shake: 2oz dextrose, 2 scoops powder - 56g carbs
19:00 6oz chicken, 10oz rice, 3egg, 2oz cheese - 65g carbs
19:15 Apple - 25g carbs
19:45 cinnamon twists - 20g carbs
20:15 Shake: 2 scoops powder, 50g dextrose, 4tbs PB - 75g carbs
20:30 Chocolates - 40g carbs

TOTAL: 287

432

8:00 wake up
9:00 coffee - 1g carbs
10:00 5 mile walk
13:00 protein shake & fiber shake - 6g carbs
16:00 Omelet - 5g carbs
19:00 Protein shake, cheese, fiber shake + joint pills - 7g carbs
20:00 8oz chicken, bunch o brocoli, dressing - 3g carbs

TOTAL: 22g carbs

433

I have another question concerning CBL. I’ve been drinking a Gatorade/Whey mix shake starting midway through my workout (after first heavy exercise and then secondary lift), just out of habit. I know Keifer advocates POST-Workout Carbs, is there a chance the intra-workout carbs could be hurting my results??

434

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
I have another question concerning CBL. I’ve been drinking a Gatorade/Whey mix shake starting midway through my workout (after first heavy exercise and then secondary lift), just out of habit. I know Keifer advocates POST-Workout Carbs, is there a chance the intra-workout carbs could be hurting my results?? [/quote]

Do you have the book? Shoot me a PM.

435

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
I have another question concerning CBL. I’ve been drinking a Gatorade/Whey mix shake starting midway through my workout (after first heavy exercise and then secondary lift), just out of habit. I know Keifer advocates POST-Workout Carbs, is there a chance the intra-workout carbs could be hurting my results?? [/quote]

When it comes to Keifer recommendations regarding peri-workout nutrition I would honestly take it with a grain of salt. It’s not his field of expertise nor does he have the experience to justify such claims. John Berardi on the other is defiantly the go to guy.

*EDIT not saying hes wrong lol just saying because hes had fairly good success with CBL doesn’t mean hes a recovery guru.

436

[quote]StateOfPsychosis wrote:

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
I have another question concerning CBL. I’ve been drinking a Gatorade/Whey mix shake starting midway through my workout (after first heavy exercise and then secondary lift), just out of habit. I know Keifer advocates POST-Workout Carbs, is there a chance the intra-workout carbs could be hurting my results?? [/quote]

Do you have the book? Shoot me a PM.[/quote]

PM Sent

437

[quote]Lykos wrote:

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
I have another question concerning CBL. I’ve been drinking a Gatorade/Whey mix shake starting midway through my workout (after first heavy exercise and then secondary lift), just out of habit. I know Keifer advocates POST-Workout Carbs, is there a chance the intra-workout carbs could be hurting my results?? [/quote]

When it comes to Keifer recommendations regarding peri-workout nutrition I would honestly take it with a grain of salt. It’s not his field of expertise nor does he have the experience to justify such claims. John Berardi on the other is defiantly the go to guy.

*EDIT not saying hes wrong lol just saying because hes had fairly good success with CBL doesn’t mean hes a recovery guru. [/quote]

Well I figured that the extra carbs mid-workout help me get through it all, and for whenever i concentrate on fat loss it would be easy to just drop it. I basically just drink it to improve performance, but didn’t know if it was detrimental to the diet all too much.

438

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:

[quote]Lykos wrote:

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
I have another question concerning CBL. I’ve been drinking a Gatorade/Whey mix shake starting midway through my workout (after first heavy exercise and then secondary lift), just out of habit. I know Keifer advocates POST-Workout Carbs, is there a chance the intra-workout carbs could be hurting my results?? [/quote]

When it comes to Keifer recommendations regarding peri-workout nutrition I would honestly take it with a grain of salt. It’s not his field of expertise nor does he have the experience to justify such claims. John Berardi on the other is defiantly the go to guy.

*EDIT not saying hes wrong lol just saying because hes had fairly good success with CBL doesn’t mean hes a recovery guru. [/quote]

Well I figured that the extra carbs mid-workout help me get through it all, and for whenever i concentrate on fat loss it would be easy to just drop it. I basically just drink it to improve performance, but didn’t know if it was detrimental to the diet all too much.[/quote]

In one of the interviews on his website he says that pre and peri workout nutrition are fine.

439

[quote]Siouxfan wrote:

[quote]ds1973 wrote:

  1. I had no idea a career in air traffic control was like that. Seems like you need to have a certain personality type to be able to do that. How did you get interested in air traffic control and realize that’s what you wanted to do?

[/quote]

I may be making it sound worse than it is, but we’re required to maintain a class II medical to keep our jobs. I don’t know how extensive the banned medication list is, but here is a list of what they feel is acceptable http://www.leftseat.com/medcat1.htm. I’ve heard it’s stressful as well, but it all depends on how you deal with it. It’s one of the few jobs you don’t have to take home with you. Once you leave your facility you don’t have to worry about anything, which helps. When I was in high school it was a toss up between becoming a cop or doing ATC. I decided ATC because I wouldn’t get shot at, but I still think being a cop could be fun. My dad is a pilot, and pretty much made it a family activity when I was growing up, so I fell into it as well. I didn’t want to fly for a living, so I’m going to be doing the next best thing. Another reason besides the stringent medical requirements would be my interest in competing in fitness modeling first, then onto to bodybuilding. So I’ll need a much stricter diet for those times. [/quote]

Cool. I had a hunch someone in your family was involved with the airline industry somehow. Just doesn’t seem like the type of job a lot of people consider without knowing a bit about what they’re getting into. I took a basic intro to flying class in high school (the vice principle was a private pilot and that was his elective to teach). I don’t know which would be more stressful, flying one plane or trying to direct a sky-full of them!

440

From reading on a fairly knowledgable board it seems keifer really messed up when he says that the carbs need to be eaten right after a workout. Its actually been shown in studies that with holding the carbs for up to 36hrs will increase the isulin sensitivity and responsiveness quite a bit compared to if carbs are eaten shorty after exercise. If carbs are withheld the body will actually supercompensate the glycogen stores much better.

Just thought i would share.