Carb Back Loading

Nutrition
301

8:00 wake up
9:00 coffee with cream
10:45 Fiber shake + joint pills
12:00 2 scoops protein powder - 6g carbs
15:00 GYM LEGS

Calves: standing press 195 for 6 sets of 10
Seated calves: 90 for 3 sets of 25

Seated leg curls: 185 for 3 sets of 10, then 195x6 drop 165x6 drop 135x6 drop 105x15

Squat: 275 for 5x5

Lunges with bar: 50 for 3x12 each leg

SL DB DL: 105 x 12 for 4 sets

17:30 PWO shake: 75g protein, 2tbs PB, 40g dextrose - 50g carbs
17:45 Fiber shake + joint pills
18:20: 9oz chicken, handful of brocoli, salsa - 10g carbs
18:30 9 cookies - 170g carbs
19:20 pint o’ ice cream - 140g carbs
20:00 small cup of custard - 10g carbs?

TOTAL: 386 grams

302

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
No it wasnt i just know that most ppl do backload like that and it was reccomended in the book but i still fail to see the logic behind that. Large food intake + higher fat intake (from the crap carb sources reccomended)+ some protein consumed = very slow digestion and gastric emptying which causes slow release of glucose. that is the part i dont get and no one has answer to they just blindly do it. Also glitch not really sure where to ask keifer. I will see if i can listen to the pod casts.[/quote]

Sounds like you’re on to something here. BTW what college did you go to?

303

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
No it wasnt i just know that most ppl do backload like that and it was reccomended in the book but i still fail to see the logic behind that. Large food intake + higher fat intake (from the crap carb sources reccomended)+ some protein consumed = very slow digestion and gastric emptying which causes slow release of glucose. that is the part i dont get and no one has answer to they just blindly do it. Also glitch not really sure where to ask keifer. I will see if i can listen to the pod casts.[/quote]

Well I actually try to keep my sources mostly carbs+protein. Nothing all too fatty unless randomly eat a burger or something I thought I read something written by Martin Berkhan anyways that said less then something like 70g of fat in a meal won’t really blunt the insulin spike all that much in a meal, but i could have totally just pulled that outta my ass. lol.

I know you have a pretty solid understanding of biochem, going into med school and all. Any idea why maybe the ‘fast carbs’ seemed to workout better for me then the ‘slow ones’? My insulin spike stuff was just my half-assed theory to explain something that just seems to be really working. I’f like to hear your thoughts.

304

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
No it wasnt i just know that most ppl do backload like that and it was reccomended in the book but i still fail to see the logic behind that. Large food intake + higher fat intake (from the crap carb sources reccomended)+ some protein consumed = very slow digestion and gastric emptying which causes slow release of glucose. that is the part i dont get and no one has answer to they just blindly do it. Also glitch not really sure where to ask keifer. I will see if i can listen to the pod casts.[/quote]

Well I actually try to keep my sources mostly carbs+protein. Nothing all too fatty unless randomly eat a burger or something I thought I read something written by Martin Berkhan anyways that said less then something like 70g of fat in a meal won’t really blunt the insulin spike all that much in a meal, but i could have totally just pulled that outta my ass. lol.

I know you have a pretty solid understanding of biochem, going into med school and all. Any idea why maybe the ‘fast carbs’ seemed to workout better for me then the ‘slow ones’? My insulin spike stuff was just my half-assed theory to explain something that just seems to be really working. I’f like to hear your thoughts.[/quote]

Well I don’t know about you, but I woke up lighter again after last night than I did a couple days ago lol. Although I am interested in making a switch to something like pizza instead of just sweets so I feel like I’m eating actual food. But ya gotta admit it’s kinda cool to eat 9 cookies, custard and a pint of ben and jerrys and wake up lighter. It’s like you’re cheating the system lol

305

Just curious, does Kiefer talk about GDAs (glucose disposal agents) or insulin mimickers at all in his backloading book? Since carb timing is the whole cornerstone of his plan, seems like these could feature prominently. Or would they be contraindicated?

306

[quote]ScubaSteve-o wrote:
Just curious, does Kiefer talk about GDAs (glucose disposal agents) or insulin mimickers at all in his backloading book? Since carb timing is the whole cornerstone of his plan, seems like these could feature prominently. Or would they be contraindicated? [/quote]

He doesn’t mention them in his book but has commented on them in various interviews. He says he is not a fan of them as they defeat the purpose of backloading. GDAs increase insulin sensitivity, but are not selective to just muscle tissue (except for igf-1lr3), they also increase insulin sensitivity in fat cells. The whole reason Kiefer likes people to train and backload in the evening is because glut-4 sensitivity (in muscle and fat tissue) is greatly reduced as the day goes on, then the training in the evening improves muscle glut-4 sensitivity, but fat cell sensitivity remains dulled.

307

Thats what i was gonna say about GDAs although i havent seen keifer mention them. But unless you find a GDA that only works on muscle cells then i would say no i wouldnt use them

308

8:00 wake up
9:00 coffee with cream
12:00 fiber shake + joint pills
12:00 3egg omelet with 2oz chicken green onion, cheese - 6g carbs
13:00 protein shake - 6g carbs
15:30 GYM

Bench Dips: bdyx20, bdyx20, bdyx20, bdyx20
SS
Across chest tri ext: 20x7, 20x7, 20x7, 20x7

Close grip Bench: 95x8, 115x8, 125x8

Rope pushdown: 35x8, 42.5x8, 42.5x8

EZ bar curls: 40 on bar x12, 50 on barx10, 60 on barx8

DB curls: 15x8, 15x8, 15x8,
SS
Hammer curls: 15x8, 15x8, 15x8
didn’t set weight down between exercises, just kept going

Preacher curls: 30x6, 30x6, 30x6, 30x6

Looks like the weights I was using were light, and yes they were. However my main focus is on contracting the muscle and a slow eccentric and full ROM. Some of the sets had 2 and 3 sec eccentric, so it adds up

18:00 PWO shake: 3 scoops powder, 50g dextrose - 60g carbs
18:05 Fiber shake + joint pills
18:50 7oz chicken, 7oz rice, mixed veggies, salsa - 50g carbs
18:55 8 cookies - 150 carbs
19:15 Nachos - 35g carbs
19:30 PB&J sammach + choc milk - 75g carbs

TOTAL: 382

309

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
No it wasnt i just know that most ppl do backload like that and it was reccomended in the book but i still fail to see the logic behind that. Large food intake + higher fat intake (from the crap carb sources reccomended)+ some protein consumed = very slow digestion and gastric emptying which causes slow release of glucose. that is the part i dont get and no one has answer to they just blindly do it. Also glitch not really sure where to ask keifer. I will see if i can listen to the pod casts.[/quote]

Well I actually try to keep my sources mostly carbs+protein. Nothing all too fatty unless randomly eat a burger or something I thought I read something written by Martin Berkhan anyways that said less then something like 70g of fat in a meal won’t really blunt the insulin spike all that much in a meal, but i could have totally just pulled that outta my ass. lol.

I know you have a pretty solid understanding of biochem, going into med school and all. Any idea why maybe the ‘fast carbs’ seemed to workout better for me then the ‘slow ones’? My insulin spike stuff was just my half-assed theory to explain something that just seems to be really working. I’f like to hear your thoughts.[/quote]

Huh thats a decent amount of fat if that is true but when you start to look at the quantities that people backload with certains foods i wouldnt be suprised if they could get close to that.

What ever works better for you personally is what you should do. So if the faster carbs give you better resutls stick with that. Now is that the best for health, again i have no idea i would need to see lab results for blood markers but if its giving you the body comp results you want then stick with and try other tweaks to see if you can get even better gym performance and body comp results.

Your understanding sounds what mine is. The fast and larger amount of carbs you can get to hit the blood stream the higher the insulin spike. The faster the glucose is removed from the blood stream the faster insulin will drop. That will depend on how well your body is ready to absorb the glucose and how much glucose is there. So in essence fast carbs should make a large fast spike of insulin. But when you start mixing other macros in there all bets are off in determining how long and how high the spike is. (in my understanding which is less then what i wish it was.)

310

[quote]Siouxfan wrote:

Looks like the weights I was using were light, and yes they were. However my main focus is on contracting the muscle and a slow eccentric and full ROM. Some of the sets had 2 and 3 sec eccentric, so it adds up

TOTAL: 382[/quote]

Bodybuilders are weak didnt you know. ALso what time do you go to sleep at night? JW

311

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]Siouxfan wrote:

Looks like the weights I was using were light, and yes they were. However my main focus is on contracting the muscle and a slow eccentric and full ROM. Some of the sets had 2 and 3 sec eccentric, so it adds up

TOTAL: 382[/quote]

Bodybuilders are weak didnt you know. ALso what time do you go to sleep at night? JW[/quote]

Ha if I didn’t care about form and wanted to swing the weights I’d be curling 50’s or 60’s. And it varies. Usually midnight.

312

1280×960 108 KB

Un-flexed. But check out the teardrop veins :slight_smile:

313

[quote]Stacked wrote:

[quote]ScubaSteve-o wrote:
Just curious, does Kiefer talk about GDAs (glucose disposal agents) or insulin mimickers at all in his backloading book? Since carb timing is the whole cornerstone of his plan, seems like these could feature prominently. Or would they be contraindicated? [/quote]

He doesn’t mention them in his book but has commented on them in various interviews. He says he is not a fan of them as they defeat the purpose of backloading. GDAs increase insulin sensitivity, but are not selective to just muscle tissue (except for igf-1lr3), they also increase insulin sensitivity in fat cells. The whole reason Kiefer likes people to train and backload in the evening is because glut-4 sensitivity (in muscle and fat tissue) is greatly reduced as the day goes on, then the training in the evening improves muscle glut-4 sensitivity, but fat cell sensitivity remains dulled. [/quote]

Great, thanks! I will have to look for those interviews.

314

8:00 wake up
9:00 coffee
12:00 Omelet, 3 eggs, 3oz turkey, some cheese - 5g carbs
19:30 Omelet again - 5g carbs
19:45 Fiber shake + joint pills
Midnight: Protein shake - 6g carbs

TOTAL: 16g

315

Okay, just have to ask, are any of you seeing any gains? And I mean, you have been at it for months and how has your weight changed? I ask because it seems that the focus appears to be on weight loss or least fat loss. After several months with this approach and if you are only up a few pounds, well, that’s why it seems to be more of a “diet” in the normal sense of the word.

Or maybe I am off base and some of you have seen some sizable muscle gain, just asking from my impressions reading this thread.

316

[quote]MrZsasz wrote:
Okay, just have to ask, are any of you seeing any gains? And I mean, you have been at it for months and how has your weight changed? I ask because it seems that the focus appears to be on weight loss or least fat loss. After several months with this approach and if you are only up a few pounds, well, that’s why it seems to be more of a “diet” in the normal sense of the word.

Or maybe I am off base and some of you have seen some sizable muscle gain, just asking from my impressions reading this thread. [/quote]

I was seeing results the first month, then I fell off the wagon and didn’t do any for a month, then about a week and a half ago got back ON the wagon and I’ve dropped about 2 pounds this week. I’m going to be able to run this full time now for a longer period and I’ll make sure to keep everyone updated. I do Sunday morning weigh in’s and post them.

Even if I didn’t lose much weight and my body comp stayed roughly the same, I was still able to literally eat half of a cheesecake at night and have no problems the next day. And I don’t know anyone who would complain about that.

317

8:00 wake up
9-12 3 sausage links and some coffee - 5g carbs
15:00 6oz chicken, mixed veggies, caesar dressing - 5g carbs
18:00 Same thing as above - 5g carbs
18:45 Fiber shake and pills
19:30 2 scoops protein - 6g carbs

TOTAL: 16g carbs

318

Weight Update:

Last Sunday: 240
Today: 237.6

319

You gots to eat more sir

320

I wish Kiefer would come out with a bit more of those looking to be in the 6% range. I’m in that 11-12% range and needing to be a bit lower to make weight for my meet without compromising strength. It’d be great if he’d weigh in more there.