Carb Back Loading

Nutrition
281

[quote]moogweasel wrote:
Sioux

Thanks for the input. If youi don’t mind sharing: (and apologies if you’ve mentioned it earlier in the thread)
What are your stats (height/weight/BF) and your current goals?

Thanks

moog[/quote]

Well I woke up today a pound lighter than yesterdays morning weight. Anyways. The height is 75 inches, weight is around 235 (little high right now, but it’s coming down) and when I last had my bf checked I was at 233. The number was 7.4%. I wasn’t sure if I was that low, since I don’t have visible abs and still have love handles. I made sure the tech guy did the test properly after he told me the first time and sure enough the number was consistent.

I seriously doubt the people who have the hydrostatic weigh tank have some secret plan to make people think they’re leaner than they really are, so I’ll take his word for it. Either way that means that I carry all of my fat in my stomach/low back. Not that it really surprises me or anything. I do have visible veins in my calves, arms, quads, knees, hips and neck. But whatever.

So the goal is simple, eat shit and get swole. That’s about it right now. Just lift hard, eat what I want and not worry about anything. Hopefully while I’m doing this I’ll get bigger and leaner in the process. Eventually I’m considering bodybuilding. But who knows at this point.

282

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
I backload with oatmeal and brown rice and lean protein. I really dont do many “dirty” foods. Works just fine for me.[/quote]
Didnt you ask MODOK about high glucose or something 10 hours after eating? The foods you are eating explain the reasons.

283

[quote]Gl;itch.e wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
I backload with oatmeal and brown rice and lean protein. I really dont do many “dirty” foods. Works just fine for me.[/quote]
Didnt you ask MODOK about high glucose or something 10 hours after eating? The foods you are eating explain the reasons. [/quote]

I have a horrendous fuckin sweet tooth. If I backloaded with oatmeal I’d hate myself lol. It’s the inner fat kid I swear. I have a pint of ben and jerrys and 9 cookies for tonight.

284

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]Gl;itch.e wrote:
But as Im learning things like low GI oats arent appropriate for backloading. [/quote]

Why what issues do you have? I have 9-10oz dry measure every single night. I even add flax powder and chia seeds to it which add more fiber (i do it for the texture)[/quote]
No particular issues. I used to have some Muesli with my last meal but have recently swapped it out for something “dirtier” to see how I go.

Listening to an interview with Keifer recently made me jump to it. A prolonged insulin response from low GI carbs at bed time means it takes the body longer to start releasing its usual night-time growth hormones and start fat burning. In theory the same amount of carbs from a dirtier source peaks insulin quicker and drops away quicker allowing these other processes to start earlier.

I did notice the first morning after changing from muesli to icecream I woke up really hungry and was hungrier than normal through most of the day. Usually I do not wake up hungry ever, even when I was eating breakfast habitually.

285

[quote]Gl;itch.e wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
I backload with oatmeal and brown rice and lean protein. I really dont do many “dirty” foods. Works just fine for me.[/quote]
Didnt you ask MODOK about high glucose or something 10 hours after eating? The foods you are eating explain the reasons. [/quote]

Yes this is not ‘backloading’ at all. This is ‘ryanbCXG-loading’.

286

[quote]Gl;itch.e wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]Gl;itch.e wrote:
But as Im learning things like low GI oats arent appropriate for backloading. [/quote]

Why what issues do you have? I have 9-10oz dry measure every single night. I even add flax powder and chia seeds to it which add more fiber (i do it for the texture)[/quote]
No particular issues. I used to have some Muesli with my last meal but have recently swapped it out for something “dirtier” to see how I go.

Listening to an interview with Keifer recently made me jump to it. A prolonged insulin response from low GI carbs at bed time means it takes the body longer to start releasing its usual night-time growth hormones and start fat burning. In theory the same amount of carbs from a dirtier source peaks insulin quicker and drops away quicker allowing these other processes to start earlier.

I did notice the first morning after changing from muesli to icecream I woke up really hungry and was hungrier than normal through most of the day. Usually I do not wake up hungry ever, even when I was eating breakfast habitually. [/quote]

I found the same thing. By replacing oatmeal with Fruity Pebbles (lulz) and brown rice and sweet potatoes for their white counter-parts, I’ve gotten much better results. I’m someone who holds ALL their fat on the love handle area, and diabetes is something that is sprinkled into my family history. So I assumed Insulin and me don’t bode well together. So from my basic understanding (Only had up too 300 lvl courses in Biochem, so sorry if I’m ignorant) Quicker Insulin Response = Quicker Insulin Drop. For me, that’s what I want. I keep insulin pretty low all day, then Post Workout JACK IT UP with tons of fast-digesting carbs, so it spikes hard, then drops.

IDK, I know my initial 3 weeks of CBL was ‘decent’, but nothing substantial. After switching to 90% High GI carbs, body composition changed drastically in the ‘love handle’ area. That’s just my experience. I also follow John Meadow’s advice by eating organic fat sources, so I don’t think this approach is all that unhealthy, even though the carbs are ‘dirtier’.

Note, I’m not saying my way is ‘right’ (Ryan has made stupid crazy progress doing what he is doing, so obviously low-GI carbs can work), just I know this works for me. I don’t want other people to not get as good results because they were maybe more timid then I was, letting the fear of ‘dirty’ fast-acting carbs sell them short.

287

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
I also follow John Meadow’s advice by eating organic fat sources, so I don’t think this approach is all that unhealthy, even though the carbs are ‘dirtier’.

[/quote]
I think its important to realise that Carb sources are generally not very nutrient dense in the first place, but rather energy dense, so as long as the Protein/Fat sources you are getting are whole foods (meats) then your nutrients and over all health should be fine-optimal.

288

[quote]NZ RABBIT wrote:

[quote]Gl;itch.e wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
I backload with oatmeal and brown rice and lean protein. I really dont do many “dirty” foods. Works just fine for me.[/quote]
Didnt you ask MODOK about high glucose or something 10 hours after eating? The foods you are eating explain the reasons. [/quote]

Yes this is not ‘backloading’ at all. This is ‘ryanbCXG-loading’.[/quote]

And whats the problem with it? I eat 600g of carbs a day and remain at the same BF while adding strength and muscle size? So why should i eat food that i dont like. I like brown rice, and oatmeal unlike many people

289

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]NZ RABBIT wrote:

[quote]Gl;itch.e wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
I backload with oatmeal and brown rice and lean protein. I really dont do many “dirty” foods. Works just fine for me.[/quote]
Didnt you ask MODOK about high glucose or something 10 hours after eating? The foods you are eating explain the reasons. [/quote]

Yes this is not ‘backloading’ at all. This is ‘ryanbCXG-loading’.[/quote]

And whats the problem with it? I eat 600g of carbs a day and remain at the same BF while adding strength and muscle size? So why should i eat food that i dont like. I like brown rice, and oatmeal unlike many people[/quote]

Yeah but who doesn’t like Cinnabons?

290

Alright for those that are backloading with ice cream and pastries pizza and the like that are reccomended. and what not please explain how that is different than backloading with lower gi carbs? you are ingesting a large amount of fat along with carbs and i would imagine most are eating some for of meat or protien source during the bakload as well. This is a highly mixed meal with a large amount of fat all of which is slow down gastric emptying and digestion which will cause a much slower release of insulin? no one has been able to explain to be how these extra factors affect the insulin repsonse and everyone seems to ignore the fact these factors will largely blunt the fast release of glucsose into the blood stream. If it works and you enjoy it and your body feels good the night of and the next morning and you are getting results more power to you. But i have been getting great results with the “healhty” lower gi food that i prefer to eat and i feel great at night and in the morning. You wont know which works until you try. the nights i try to load with mostly crap my body really gets pissed at me.

I would love for someone to explain this to me as it has bothered from day 1 of reading the book> it has made no sense to me. I am always happy to learn something new

291

[quote]Siouxfan wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]NZ RABBIT wrote:

[quote]Gl;itch.e wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
I backload with oatmeal and brown rice and lean protein. I really dont do many “dirty” foods. Works just fine for me.[/quote]
Didnt you ask MODOK about high glucose or something 10 hours after eating? The foods you are eating explain the reasons. [/quote]

Yes this is not ‘backloading’ at all. This is ‘ryanbCXG-loading’.[/quote]

And whats the problem with it? I eat 600g of carbs a day and remain at the same BF while adding strength and muscle size? So why should i eat food that i dont like. I like brown rice, and oatmeal unlike many people[/quote]

Yeah but who doesn’t like Cinnabons?[/quote]

I do love those things. I used to never be able to visit an airport or mall without getting one. Ah back in the day :slight_smile:

292

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]NZ RABBIT wrote:

[quote]Gl;itch.e wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
I backload with oatmeal and brown rice and lean protein. I really dont do many “dirty” foods. Works just fine for me.[/quote]
Didnt you ask MODOK about high glucose or something 10 hours after eating? The foods you are eating explain the reasons. [/quote]

Yes this is not ‘backloading’ at all. This is ‘ryanbCXG-loading’.[/quote]

And whats the problem with it? I eat 600g of carbs a day and remain at the same BF while adding strength and muscle size? So why should i eat food that i dont like. I like brown rice, and oatmeal unlike many people[/quote]
Ask Keifer. One thing I remember from the interview was “fat cell creation”

293

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Alright for those that are backloading with ice cream and pastries pizza and the like that are reccomended. and what not please explain how that is different than backloading with lower gi carbs? you are ingesting a large amount of fat along with carbs and i would imagine most are eating some for of meat or protien source during the bakload as well. This is a highly mixed meal with a large amount of fat all of which is slow down gastric emptying and digestion which will cause a much slower release of insulin? no one has been able to explain to be how these extra factors affect the insulin repsonse and everyone seems to ignore the fact these factors will largely blunt the fast release of glucsose into the blood stream. If it works and you enjoy it and your body feels good the night of and the next morning and you are getting results more power to you. But i have been getting great results with the “healhty” lower gi food that i prefer to eat and i feel great at night and in the morning. You wont know which works until you try. the nights i try to load with mostly crap my body really gets pissed at me.[/quote]

As I have said before I havent read the book and am curious as well about the amount of fat ingested along with the carbs.

294

[quote]Gl;itch.e wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]NZ RABBIT wrote:

[quote]Gl;itch.e wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
I backload with oatmeal and brown rice and lean protein. I really dont do many “dirty” foods. Works just fine for me.[/quote]
Didnt you ask MODOK about high glucose or something 10 hours after eating? The foods you are eating explain the reasons. [/quote]

Yes this is not ‘backloading’ at all. This is ‘ryanbCXG-loading’.[/quote]

And whats the problem with it? I eat 600g of carbs a day and remain at the same BF while adding strength and muscle size? So why should i eat food that i dont like. I like brown rice, and oatmeal unlike many people[/quote]
Ask Keifer. One thing I remember from the interview was “fat cell creation”[/quote]

Got a source for that interview i would love to read some more about what he has written about this.

295

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Got a source for that interview i would love to read some more about what he has written about this.[/quote]

Was linked on Keifers website. Its a podcast. The section he talks about low GI is somewhere in the last 3rd of the podcast.

296

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Alright for those that are backloading with ice cream and pastries pizza and the like that are reccomended. and what not please explain how that is different than backloading with lower gi carbs? you are ingesting a large amount of fat along with carbs and i would imagine most are eating some for of meat or protien source during the bakload as well. This is a highly mixed meal with a large amount of fat all of which is slow down gastric emptying and digestion which will cause a much slower release of insulin? no one has been able to explain to be how these extra factors affect the insulin repsonse and everyone seems to ignore the fact these factors will largely blunt the fast release of glucsose into the blood stream. If it works and you enjoy it and your body feels good the night of and the next morning and you are getting results more power to you. But i have been getting great results with the “healhty” lower gi food that i prefer to eat and i feel great at night and in the morning. You wont know which works until you try. the nights i try to load with mostly crap my body really gets pissed at me.

I would love for someone to explain this to me as it has bothered from day 1 of reading the book> it has made no sense to me. I am always happy to learn something new[/quote]

Just in case my post wasn’t clear (don’t know if this was intended for me), my whole message was just play around with your carb sources and see what works for you. Don’t be scared of something ‘dirty’ if everything else is in-line.

I don’t want you to think I’m saying your approach was wrong or less effective by any means, just it didn’t work for me, just FTR.

297

No it wasnt i just know that most ppl do backload like that and it was reccomended in the book but i still fail to see the logic behind that. Large food intake + higher fat intake (from the crap carb sources reccomended)+ some protein consumed = very slow digestion and gastric emptying which causes slow release of glucose. that is the part i dont get and no one has answer to they just blindly do it. Also glitch not really sure where to ask keifer. I will see if i can listen to the pod casts.

298

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
I will see if i can listen to the pod casts.[/quote]
The podcast is the 2nd interview in his link off the interview article on the main page of his website.

299

Couple more things i thought of randomly. Insulin does not affect GH release. I think its actually the blood glucose level but i am not sure.

A rambling question: The whole basis of CBL is that we are not sensitive to insulin at the end of the day and thorugh use of caffeine we can further make ourselves insulin resistant at night. But we train at night so that our muscles are sensative to glucose (not insulin). So our muscles through non insulin dependent glut 4 transporters can suck up the glucose and not the fat cells (which are in an insuin resistnat state). So why do we need the large insulin spike if no cells are really ready to react to insulin?

300

[quote]Gl;itch.e wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
I will see if i can listen to the pod casts.[/quote]
The podcast is the 2nd interview in his link off the interview article on the main page of his website. [/quote]

Thanks i will do some searching in my down time the next couple days.