Carb Back Loading 2.0

Nutrition
164

Alright here’s what I have done today, just wanna get your thoughts. If you guys don’t mind I plan on posting up my diet for the next few days, just to get criticism from you guys.

For today I couldn’t really help the workout timing. Based on the Article by Keifer, he said to backload as normal, and have a shake. Again, right now I didn’t have access to protein so this was the best I could do.

9:00- Wake
9:30- coffee whipping cream stevia
10:30- Work out
30 min PWO- Some Chican and spinach
Fast until 5:00
5:00- 2 scoops ice cream, 12 flatbread, potatoes and peas ( 2 bowls), and 5 oreos
I was planning on having some protein sources.

EDIT–> My goal is fat loss
What do ya think?

165

[/quote]Mac85 wrote:

It is suggested but he also states not to use CBL as an excuse to eat only junk. Why do you think withholding carbs until after the workout at the end of the day will result in insulin resistance? Spiking blood sugar levels multiple times per day is what I would be more concerned with.

I’m not saying it will, I was asking if it’s a possibility that spiking insulin to that degree would have a negative impact on insulin sensitivity over the long term. I’ve never really dialed in my nutrition, just ate the typical body-building fare over 5 meals throughout the day. I’m enjoying CBL for the most part right now and I would like to continue with it as long as I’m not screwing up my health. [quote]

Mac,

The reason Keifer uses “junk food” is due to the insulin spiking properties. You want to get a high insulin release that drops off sharply before or early on in sleep (hypoinsuleimia), that way you get a large hGH release at night and can increase the fasting time where your body is burning fat.

However, he doesn’t really promote a lot of junk food, more along the lines of if you choose to have the cake, you can eat the cake. I would just eat a paleo style of diet with potatoes, sweet potatoes, etc. That way you can still get the insulin spike, but you’re not getting the junk. Then if you want to eat the cake every once in a while you can.

Carb Back Loading will improve your insulin sensitivity over time, especially with the preparation phase. A typical bodybuilding diet actual decreases your insulin sensitivity, by constantly causing you to spike insulin. If you think about it, you’re eating 5-8 meals a day, which may consist of small loads of foodstuffs. Which regardless of what you’re primarily eating, low carb, high fat, high protein, blah, blah, blah, any nutrients you’re taking in is increasing an insulin response several times a day. I have done the whole bodybuilding diet scheme for many years, and before I got into more of a Anabolic/Paleo diet I couldn’t go longer than 4 hours without unsatiable hunger and energy fluctuations. I would kill someone for a bagel. Once I switched over, no more hunger, no more lethargy, and I could go on for several hours without eating or even worrying about food.

With Carb Back Loading it requires that you fast for several hours, when insulin sensitivity is higher in the morning, and then more resistant at night. Then you stimulate non-insulin mediated GLUT4 responses in the muscles to hinder fat deposition and increase absorption in the muscles. If you’re only having one insulin response a day or two in short succession, I don’t think that your body will become insulin resistant, regardless of the foodstuffs utilized.

I don’t think having some junk food every now and again would be whole heartedly bad in that case. Thoughts?

166

[quote]IFlashBack wrote:
Alright here’s what I have done today, just wanna get your thoughts. If you guys don’t mind I plan on posting up my diet for the next few days, just to get criticism from you guys.

For today I couldn’t really help the workout timing. Based on the Article by Keifer, he said to backload as normal, and have a shake. Again, right now I didn’t have access to protein so this was the best I could do.

9:00- Wake
9:30- coffee whipping cream stevia
10:30- Work out
30 min PWO- Some Chican and spinach
Fast until 5:00
5:00- 2 scoops ice cream, 12 flatbread, potatoes and peas ( 2 bowls), and 5 oreos
I was planning on having some protein sources.

EDIT–> My goal is fat loss
What do ya think? [/quote]

I’m going to have to do more research. Your early morning workout may hinder your results, since the non-insulin mediated insulin response will be blunted (especially if not stimulated with amino acids). I’m currently experimenting with my own workouts, which I workout in the AM from 0330-0500AM. I’ve gone a week without eating anything until about 5 hours after I’ve been awake, then two meals of protein/fats, until PM work out at 1400-1600. I have a PM workout with some HIT Intervals or a smaller WO with hypertrophy movements just to get the GLUT4 response.

Still waiting on my MCT oil to get here (takes a few weeks where I’m at), so I’ll add that in to increase fasting potential. Keifer suggest having post workout of MCT oil and/or leucine 10grams post workout. Or coffee with cream.

I would try to increase your fast a bit longer though, before chicken and whatnot…

Possibly include leucine 10g post workout.

Check out the forums on Dangerously Hardcore.com. They’ve been pretty helpful in figuring out what will work for you.

167

[quote]Mac85 wrote:

It is suggested but he also states not to use CBL as an excuse to eat only junk. Why do you think withholding carbs until after the workout at the end of the day will result in insulin resistance? Spiking blood sugar levels multiple times per day is what I would be more concerned with.[quote]

I’m not saying it will, I was asking if it’s a possibility that spiking insulin to that degree would have a negative impact on insulin sensitivity over the long term. I’ve never really dialed in my nutrition, just ate the typical body-building fare over 5 meals throughout the day. I’m enjoying CBL for the most part right now and I would like to continue with it as long as I’m not screwing up my health. [/quote]

Mac,

The reason Keifer uses “junk food” is due to the insulin spiking properties. You want to get a high insulin release that drops off sharply before or early on in sleep (hypoinsuleimia), that way you get a large hGH release at night and can increase the fasting time where your body is burning fat.

However, he doesn’t really promote a lot of junk food, more along the lines of if you choose to have the cake, you can eat the cake. I would just eat a paleo style of diet with potatoes, sweet potatoes, etc. That way you can still get the insulin spike, but you’re not getting the junk. Then if you want to eat the cake every once in a while you can.

Carb Back Loading will improve your insulin sensitivity over time, especially with the preparation phase. A typical bodybuilding diet actual decreases your insulin sensitivity, by constantly causing you to spike insulin. If you think about it, you’re eating 5-8 meals a day, which may consist of small loads of foodstuffs. Which regardless of what you’re primarily eating, low carb, high fat, high protein, blah, blah, blah, any nutrients you’re taking in is increasing an insulin response several times a day.

I have done the whole bodybuilding diet scheme for many years, and before I got into more of a Anabolic/Paleo diet I couldn’t go longer than 4 hours without unsatiable hunger and energy fluctuations. I would kill someone for a bagel. Once I switched over, no more hunger, no more lethargy, and I could go on for several hours without eating or even worrying about food.

With Carb Back Loading it requires that you fast for several hours, when insulin sensitivity is higher in the morning, and then more resistant at night. Then you stimulate non-insulin mediated GLUT4 responses in the muscles to hinder fat deposition and increase absorption in the muscles. If you’re only having one insulin response a day or two in short succession, I don’t think that your body will become insulin resistant, regardless of the foodstuffs utilized.

I don’t think having some junk food every now and again would be whole heartedly bad in that case. Thoughts?

168

EDIT: Never mind just got CBL from a buddy, started reading it immediately.

169

[quote]BroMontana wrote:
EDIT: Never mind just got CBL from a buddy, started reading it immediately. [/quote]

Let me know what you think. I’m trying to wait until he updates his current book, but I’m so curious I just want to buy it just because…

v/r

Gremlin

170

Hey gremlin,

Thanks for the reply. I noticed you also post over at the DH board. I just lurk there. Saw your post on CBL and the military. I’ve adjusted well so far. We do our PT in the morning, but the intensity can easily rise above the 65%HR recommended for fasted morning cardio. Also, I usually can only go 3 hours after waking before I eat due to the schedule, but I don’t think that should screw things up too much. Do you think any of this would require tweaks to the program?

171

[quote]Mac85 wrote:

[quote]gremlin1267 wrote:

[quote]Mac85 wrote:

[quote]StateOfPsychosis wrote:
Don’t eat junk food for you carb sources. This diet is as healthy as you make it.[/quote]

Kiefer suggests using junk food, but let’s pretend for a moment that junk food isn’t used for the backload. Would consuming 500gms of high GI carbs several times a week over the long term lead to insulin resistance? If it doesn’t, what would make a pastry or bowl of high quality ice cream any more junk than a bowl of rice?

[/quote]

I’ve been following this dietary protocol for about a month now, and I know for a fact that it’s not designed to be a healthy way to eat (or at least it’s not touted as a health diet). It’s designed to burn fat and add/keep muscle mass…period. However, you can make it healthy by just not eating the junk foods that stimulate a high insulin release.

There are quite a few people in the forums on DH that are pursuing the paleo-style dieting in this manner, and as I’ve been only following for a short while, they seem to be performing alright.

This dietary protocol isn’t a matter of being healthy living, I mean comeon, let’s face it. Bodybuilding isn’t exactly the healthiest sport out there, nor is powerlifting. The dieting, the excessive working out, the diuretics, the excessive vitamins and powders, the drugs in some cases…and I’m not going to chastise anyone for that, because I’m the same way. You do what you do to get ahead in the game. We put our bodies through complete hell day in and day out because we want to get bigger, leaner, stronger, perform better. If you’re goal is to just be healthy, yeah, it could probably do that too, but it’s not designed for that purpose.

Keifer has come up with a unique way of manipulating the bodies hormones through food and workout timing that seems to work really well. But in the end it is what you make out of it.

v/r

Gremlin[/quote]

I’m not talking about being the healthiest person out there, nor am I a longevity nut. I’m talking about general health concerns. Insulin resistance is a serious health concern for anyone, and that is what my question is about. [/quote]

ASK KIEFER jesus he’s on FB, he has a site with a FORUM, yet this thread keeps growing, I don’t get it.

172

[quote]as wrote:
Has anyone else here who bought the book know anything on updates being released or how to get them, because I have a lot of unanswered questions?

If not how can I get my questions answered on his site like someone here recommended? And I mean answered by him. I see a lot of threads and replies back and forth between users but their knowledge base isn’t the greatest and I want to get specific answers fom the guy who wrote the book.

From the forums and threads I went through he doesn’t seem to respond to anything really.[/quote]

join the DH group of FB, make friends with DH Kiefer on FB, talk to the man himself. listen to his podcasts,

173

[quote]Meni69 wrote:

[quote]as wrote:
Has anyone else here who bought the book know anything on updates being released or how to get them, because I have a lot of unanswered questions?

If not how can I get my questions answered on his site like someone here recommended? And I mean answered by him. I see a lot of threads and replies back and forth between users but their knowledge base isn’t the greatest and I want to get specific answers fom the guy who wrote the book.

From the forums and threads I went through he doesn’t seem to respond to anything really.[/quote]

join the DH group of FB, make friends with DH Kiefer on FB, talk to the man himself. listen to his podcasts, [/quote]

Ah facebook, ok thanks didn’t think of that. I had already joined DH.

174

[quote]Meni69 wrote:

[quote]Mac85 wrote:

[quote]gremlin1267 wrote:

[quote]Mac85 wrote:

[quote]StateOfPsychosis wrote:
Don’t eat junk food for you carb sources. This diet is as healthy as you make it.[/quote]

Kiefer suggests using junk food, but let’s pretend for a moment that junk food isn’t used for the backload. Would consuming 500gms of high GI carbs several times a week over the long term lead to insulin resistance? If it doesn’t, what would make a pastry or bowl of high quality ice cream any more junk than a bowl of rice?

[/quote]

I’ve been following this dietary protocol for about a month now, and I know for a fact that it’s not designed to be a healthy way to eat (or at least it’s not touted as a health diet). It’s designed to burn fat and add/keep muscle mass…period. However, you can make it healthy by just not eating the junk foods that stimulate a high insulin release.

There are quite a few people in the forums on DH that are pursuing the paleo-style dieting in this manner, and as I’ve been only following for a short while, they seem to be performing alright.

This dietary protocol isn’t a matter of being healthy living, I mean comeon, let’s face it. Bodybuilding isn’t exactly the healthiest sport out there, nor is powerlifting. The dieting, the excessive working out, the diuretics, the excessive vitamins and powders, the drugs in some cases…and I’m not going to chastise anyone for that, because I’m the same way. You do what you do to get ahead in the game. We put our bodies through complete hell day in and day out because we want to get bigger, leaner, stronger, perform better. If you’re goal is to just be healthy, yeah, it could probably do that too, but it’s not designed for that purpose.

Keifer has come up with a unique way of manipulating the bodies hormones through food and workout timing that seems to work really well. But in the end it is what you make out of it.

v/r

Gremlin[/quote]

I’m not talking about being the healthiest person out there, nor am I a longevity nut. I’m talking about general health concerns. Insulin resistance is a serious health concern for anyone, and that is what my question is about. [/quote]

ASK KIEFER jesus he’s on FB, he has a site with a FORUM, yet this thread keeps growing, I don’t get it.[/quote]

Are you a mod for this thread? Don’t read it or contribute to it if you have a problem. I don’t get it.

Who would look for information about a product/service from someone other than the person who profits from it’s success? Can you believe that shit?

175

[quote]Meni69 wrote:

[quote]Mac85 wrote:

[quote]gremlin1267 wrote:

[quote]Mac85 wrote:

[quote]StateOfPsychosis wrote:
Don’t eat junk food for you carb sources. This diet is as healthy as you make it.[/quote]

Kiefer suggests using junk food, but let’s pretend for a moment that junk food isn’t used for the backload. Would consuming 500gms of high GI carbs several times a week over the long term lead to insulin resistance? If it doesn’t, what would make a pastry or bowl of high quality ice cream any more junk than a bowl of rice?

[/quote]

I’ve been following this dietary protocol for about a month now, and I know for a fact that it’s not designed to be a healthy way to eat (or at least it’s not touted as a health diet). It’s designed to burn fat and add/keep muscle mass…period. However, you can make it healthy by just not eating the junk foods that stimulate a high insulin release.

There are quite a few people in the forums on DH that are pursuing the paleo-style dieting in this manner, and as I’ve been only following for a short while, they seem to be performing alright.

This dietary protocol isn’t a matter of being healthy living, I mean comeon, let’s face it. Bodybuilding isn’t exactly the healthiest sport out there, nor is powerlifting. The dieting, the excessive working out, the diuretics, the excessive vitamins and powders, the drugs in some cases…and I’m not going to chastise anyone for that, because I’m the same way. You do what you do to get ahead in the game. We put our bodies through complete hell day in and day out because we want to get bigger, leaner, stronger, perform better. If you’re goal is to just be healthy, yeah, it could probably do that too, but it’s not designed for that purpose.

Keifer has come up with a unique way of manipulating the bodies hormones through food and workout timing that seems to work really well. But in the end it is what you make out of it.

v/r

Gremlin[/quote]

I’m not talking about being the healthiest person out there, nor am I a longevity nut. I’m talking about general health concerns. Insulin resistance is a serious health concern for anyone, and that is what my question is about. [/quote]

ASK KIEFER jesus he’s on FB, he has a site with a FORUM, yet this thread keeps growing, I don’t get it.[/quote]

This Guy is awesome…this guy, is one of those guys.

176

thread is CARB BACK LOADING which is John Kiefer’s PROGRAM so Just mentioning his site or fb shouldn’t be FROWNED ON.

and KIEFER is talking to JOHN MEADOWS TODAYS

177

[quote]gremlin1267 wrote:

[quote]BroMontana wrote:
EDIT: Never mind just got CBL from a buddy, started reading it immediately. [/quote]

Let me know what you think. I’m trying to wait until he updates his current book, but I’m so curious I just want to buy it just because…

v/r

Gremlin[/quote]

Hey i can send you a copy if you want?

I skipped the prep phase and was having the most intense workouts of my life for the second week, however i started to do some research and changed my mind… and now im going to get the prep phase over with and do this thing right. However i have a question about the prep phase…

Am i supposed to simply remove carbs from the diet creating a calorie deficit or am i supposed to replace the carbs with fats and protein… im guessing just remove them, this would create the weight loss? i don’t know?

178

[quote]BroMontana wrote:

[quote]gremlin1267 wrote:

[quote]BroMontana wrote:
EDIT: Never mind just got CBL from a buddy, started reading it immediately. [/quote]

Let me know what you think. I’m trying to wait until he updates his current book, but I’m so curious I just want to buy it just because…

v/r

Gremlin[/quote]

Hey i can send you a copy if you want?

I skipped the prep phase and was having the most intense workouts of my life for the second week, however i started to do some research and changed my mind… and now im going to get the prep phase over with and do this thing right. However i have a question about the prep phase…

Am i supposed to simply remove carbs from the diet creating a calorie deficit or am i supposed to replace the carbs with fats and protein… im guessing just remove them, this would create the weight loss? i don’t know?
[/quote]

NO no calorie deficit needed, your prep will put you into ketosis

179

[quote]Meni69 wrote:

[quote]BroMontana wrote:

[quote]gremlin1267 wrote:

[quote]BroMontana wrote:
EDIT: Never mind just got CBL from a buddy, started reading it immediately. [/quote]

Let me know what you think. I’m trying to wait until he updates his current book, but I’m so curious I just want to buy it just because…

v/r

Gremlin[/quote]

Hey i can send you a copy if you want?

I skipped the prep phase and was having the most intense workouts of my life for the second week, however i started to do some research and changed my mind… and now im going to get the prep phase over with and do this thing right. However i have a question about the prep phase…

Am i supposed to simply remove carbs from the diet creating a calorie deficit or am i supposed to replace the carbs with fats and protein… im guessing just remove them, this would create the weight loss? i don’t know?
[/quote]

NO no calorie deficit needed, your prep will put you into ketosis
[/quote]

gotcha, thanks man he didn’t really explain that part very well in the book… buffalo wild wings, here i come

180

[quote]BroMontana wrote:

[quote]Meni69 wrote:

[quote]BroMontana wrote:

[quote]gremlin1267 wrote:

[quote]BroMontana wrote:
EDIT: Never mind just got CBL from a buddy, started reading it immediately. [/quote]

Let me know what you think. I’m trying to wait until he updates his current book, but I’m so curious I just want to buy it just because…

v/r

Gremlin[/quote]

Hey i can send you a copy if you want?

I skipped the prep phase and was having the most intense workouts of my life for the second week, however i started to do some research and changed my mind… and now im going to get the prep phase over with and do this thing right. However i have a question about the prep phase…

Am i supposed to simply remove carbs from the diet creating a calorie deficit or am i supposed to replace the carbs with fats and protein… im guessing just remove them, this would create the weight loss? i don’t know?
[/quote]

NO no calorie deficit needed, your prep will put you into ketosis
[/quote]

gotcha, thanks man he didn’t really explain that part very well in the book… buffalo wild wings, here i come[/quote]

I sent you a PM, but I don’t think my account is working or something. Let me know if you got the message

181

So what’s this?

Eating carbs only at night now?

Where can I find some details?

182

[quote]BroMontana wrote:

Hey i can send you a copy if you want?
[/quote]

Hey mate if your in a sharing mood i’ll take u up on that, i might have something in my library for u in return?

183

[quote]BroMontana wrote:

[quote]gremlin1267 wrote:

[quote]BroMontana wrote:
EDIT: Never mind just got CBL from a buddy, started reading it immediately. [/quote]

Let me know what you think. I’m trying to wait until he updates his current book, but I’m so curious I just want to buy it just because…

v/r

Gremlin[/quote]

Hey i can send you a copy if you want?

I skipped the prep phase and was having the most intense workouts of my life for the second week, however i started to do some research and changed my mind… and now im going to get the prep phase over with and do this thing right. However i have a question about the prep phase…

Am i supposed to simply remove carbs from the diet creating a calorie deficit or am i supposed to replace the carbs with fats and protein… im guessing just remove them, this would create the weight loss? i don’t know?
[/quote]

Thank you, but I already bought it! LOL…couldn’t wait any longer. It’s got some useful info, but I guess it’s one of those pay to play games. I have a lot more legitimacy on the CBL Forums just having bought the book. Most of the information is out there though…still awaiting updates. Keifer even mentioned that he was rushed to finish the book because so many top level competitors were sharing their information.

But as far as I can tell the program works very well. Some issues with certain individuals, but mostly just lack of knowledge or not able to follow simple instructions…“oh, darn it forgot the crayons!”

v/r

Gremlin