Carb Back Loading 2.0

Nutrition
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CBLers,

I’ve been on AD for a year now and enjoy it. I have some questions about CBL and I was hoping to get yalls incite. I have some ideas myself, but I’d like to hear yall’s. I may eventually use CBL to go on a mass phase.

1.) When it comes to total daily calories, how much should the Pre-training meal consist of? 40% daily calories? 30%? I guess if you’re gaining weight you can bring that number up. A better question would be how much do yall eat before your workouts and how has it been working for ya? :slight_smile:

2.) What are yall’s experience on eating a clean(er) yet still high GI backload? (i.e. White rice, mashed potatoes, white bread, etc). Did it work better than dirtier options? Worse?

3.) Do you personally backload after HITT (sprint/sled) only days?

4.) Has anyone transitioned to this diet from AD? How’d that go for ya?

5.) How much fat do you intake on a backload? Have you seen the backload fat content effect your results?

6.) Side topic for ADers: What do yall think about using some of J. Keifer’s principles in AD. Basically no breakfast, and carb backloading on the weekends instead of a constant load.

I have read the book, however, I find yalls experience invaluable. And I like discussion!

Thanks,
JK

PS: Anyone have some updated notable results? I love hearing it.

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[quote]JK29 wrote:
2.) What are yall’s experience on eating a clean(er) yet still high GI backload? (i.e. White rice, mashed potatoes, white bread, etc). Did it work better than dirtier options? Worse?

3.) Do you personally backload after HITT (sprint/sled) only days?[/quote]
I’ll answer just these two…

2)Far less water retention when I exclude dairy and gluten.

3)Try to get 60-70 grams of carbs just from veggies (mainly carrots and onions) and nuts.
No starches or fruit.

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[quote]IronAbrams wrote:
Anyone else Density Bulking? I’m curious what everyone’s plans look like when they’re back loading on off days.[/quote]

I’m Density Bulking, so I’ll drop my plan. Now, I’ve become very efficient (not quite mastered) the whole “how do you look/feel” in the morning test that Keifer talks about in the book. I think that’s crucial when doing the Density Bulk if you don’t want to get super sloppy/feel like shit.

Wake: 6:20 am

From 6:30 AM - ~12PM: Kiefer coffee (splenda, coconut oil, heavy cream, 10-15g whey in coffee)
Fish Oil (5g)
Macros: Fat - ~30-35 for the morning, Pro - 20g for the morning, maybe 30g

Lunch: Steak Salad, Grilled Chicken Salad (you get the idea) with oil and red wine vinegar, Fish Oil (5g)
Macros: Fat - usu. ~40-60g, Pro - usu ~ 60g (use shake if not), Carb - <15g from incidentals

Mid Afternoon, 3-4 pm b/t patients: Serving or 2 of almonds, 50g whey (works for me)
Macros: ~15-20g Fat, ~60g Pro

Pre-Dinner, ~6 pm: 50g whey, faster carbs like jelly beans (shut up, I love jelly belly)
Macros: ~50g Pro, 130g Carb

Dinner, ~7-8 (whenever I’m done cooking): Something like steak and potatoes, or carry out burger and fries, usually just whatever I’m feeling within reason.
Macros: ~50-100g Pro between now and bed, depending on the meal. Carbs ~ 150g

In short, I keep my carbs near 300g or less on off days. This keeps me waking up without holding too much water in the morning, and by mid-day I’m looking super sexy again. I go up to 400-500g of Carbs on my backloads. At this rate, I’m gaining about .5-.8 lb/week of scale weight, but the pinchable portion of my lower abs is diminishing quickly at the same time. My gym lifts are also going up with it, so I can’t complain.

I’ve got really shallow abs though, so I’ve just got a flat-ish stomach lol.

Hope that helps.

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How do you modify the diet if you train in the morning?

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I’m 145-148lbs trying to do SA, hopefully DB when I get a job, anyway I have some quick questions:

I’m 145lbs and doing SA, what would you guys think would be an ideal amount of pro/fat for me on off days?

My plan is to backload on training days (4xper week) and no carb on off days. Thanks!

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hey guys, in regards to strength accumulation whats the difference when you back load if you train everyday compared to density bulking? in fact if you train everyday what is the difference?

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[quote]GoldenChild wrote:
hey guys, in regards to strength accumulation whats the difference when you back load if you train everyday compared to density bulking? in fact if you train everyday what is the difference?[/quote]

The difference would be your goals really. Are you most worried about performance or fatloss? if fatloss is your main goal at the time then you are best served by either going fully Carbnite or at least dropping back your carbs on the nights of the least taxing workouts.

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Hey there, i have been backloading for about 6 months, gotten pretty good results came donw from 198-205ish to 180-183ish in about 2months. Wnet from not seeing any abs to seeing the top row or 2. Strength has gone through my plateaus on bench and deads, almost a hundred lbs in the deadlift, and 25lbs on the bench. Looking at really hammering in some more consistency with the Strength Accumulation. Before i would have 1 full carb day on non training day usually day before ME Deads/Squat. Also am going to start trying to fill out the uneven strengths. Thanks

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[quote]Daveski7 wrote:
. Before i would have 1 full carb day on non training day usually day before ME Deads/Squat. [/quote]

did you find this to be beneficial? and at what point in the day did you start eating carbs on the those days?

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strength wise yes I was doing lot of running at that time so it was beneficial. started around 1-2pm woke around 7-8 since it was sunday. fasted up to about noon would have 6 slices of bacon and 4 eggs and cheese. then start with things like potatoes, and gradually get more hi gi stuff, and taper off around 2030 or 2130 just prior to going to sleep. Hope this helps. quick note this didnt help with any mass gain at all, i have noticed that traditional backloading work way better and am almost always full looking unless it was low carb or say a high intensity high voluume deadlift session. then it took about 2 backloads to fill back out.

[quote]BrianBellitto wrote:

[quote]Daveski7 wrote:
. Before i would have 1 full carb day on non training day usually day before ME Deads/Squat. [/quote]

did you find this to be beneficial? and at what point in the day did you start eating carbs on the those days?
[/quote]

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[quote]Daveski7 wrote:
strength wise yes I was doing lot of running at that time so it was beneficial. started around 1-2pm woke around 7-8 since it was sunday. fasted up to about noon would have 6 slices of bacon and 4 eggs and cheese. then start with things like potatoes, and gradually get more hi gi stuff, and taper off around 2030 or 2130 just prior to going to sleep. Hope this helps. quick note this didnt help with any mass gain at all, i have noticed that traditional backloading work way better and am almost always full looking unless it was low carb or say a high intensity high voluume deadlift session. then it took about 2 backloads to fill back out.

[quote]BrianBellitto wrote:

[quote]Daveski7 wrote:
. Before i would have 1 full carb day on non training day usually day before ME Deads/Squat. [/quote]

did you find this to be beneficial? and at what point in the day did you start eating carbs on the those days?
[/quote]
[/quote]

ah ok yeah i am looking to gain strength but lose weight, not doing a ton of cardio so i wonder if this would be beneficial to me. Thanks man.

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Well you will want to adjust daily with the way i did it.

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yeah im going to try it out. i have been trying for under 30-40 carbs on off days and its kind of tough. anyone else have any good results doing more carbs on off days? or do you think sticking to low or no carb on off days is a better solution?

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[quote]BrianBellitto wrote:
yeah im going to try it out. i have been trying for under 30-40 carbs on off days and its kind of tough. anyone else have any good results doing more carbs on off days? or do you think sticking to low or no carb on off days is a better solution?[/quote]

pretty sure Kiefer says if your not bulking stay within the 30g limit on off days. I actually still enjoy off days, love me some steak and eggs, with broc! YUM!!!

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SO i think i may have hit around 1000grams of carbs lastnight, box of apple turnovers, 10 cup cakes, 1 12 inch subway melt, and somthing like 4 medium bagels and cream cheese, large choco-peanut milk shake and peanut clusters and pizza it was pretty filling.
+

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[quote]Daveski7 wrote:
SO i think i may have hit around 1000grams of carbs lastnight, box of apple turnovers, 10 cup cakes, 1 12 inch subway melt, and somthing like 4 medium bagels and cream cheese, large choco-peanut milk shake and peanut clusters and pizza it was pretty filling.
+[/quote]

And…how u feel this morning. My guess, either awful, or great.

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[quote]Daveski7 wrote:
SO i think i may have hit around 1000grams of carbs lastnight, box of apple turnovers, 10 cup cakes, 1 12 inch subway melt, and somthing like 4 medium bagels and cream cheese, large choco-peanut milk shake and peanut clusters and pizza it was pretty filling.
+[/quote]

And THAT is how you do it. Sounds awesome.

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It was Cool, i woke up feeling a lil sluggish but i felt pretty good physically. Repeated last night after testing the waters af a new pr and added frosted flakes, i feel mentally good. also slept an extra hour though.

[quote]wiggles wrote:

[quote]Daveski7 wrote:
SO i think i may have hit around 1000grams of carbs lastnight, box of apple turnovers, 10 cup cakes, 1 12 inch subway melt, and somthing like 4 medium bagels and cream cheese, large choco-peanut milk shake and peanut clusters and pizza it was pretty filling.
+[/quote]

And THAT is how you do it. Sounds awesome.[/quote]

81

[quote]Daveski7 wrote:
It was Cool, i woke up feeling a lil sluggish but i felt pretty good physically. Repeated last night after testing the waters af a new pr and added frosted flakes, i feel mentally good. also slept an extra hour though.

[quote]wiggles wrote:

[quote]Daveski7 wrote:
SO i think i may have hit around 1000grams of carbs lastnight, box of apple turnovers, 10 cup cakes, 1 12 inch subway melt, and somthing like 4 medium bagels and cream cheese, large choco-peanut milk shake and peanut clusters and pizza it was pretty filling.
+[/quote]

And THAT is how you do it. Sounds awesome.[/quote]
[/quote]

Its pretty crazy. 4000 calories worth of carbs!

What are your guys work outs like? low volume heavy ass weight, hi volume moderate weight, HEAVY ASS WEIGHT-HIGH VOLUME?

I havent red the book, so Im not sure on the science behind it, other than the circadian rythm and GLut4 interaction helping the calories to the muscle and not the fat cells.

Im wondering if you need to be doing insane aounts of carbs like 700 to 1000 grams to repping the full benefits of BL…thoughts?

82

Not really man this was a way to fill up for heavy Deads. i wouldnt recommend it. although High Glycemic foods are a must

[quote]throws56 wrote:

[quote]Daveski7 wrote:
It was Cool, i woke up feeling a lil sluggish but i felt pretty good physically. Repeated last night after testing the waters af a new pr and added frosted flakes, i feel mentally good. also slept an extra hour though.

[quote]wiggles wrote:

[quote]Daveski7 wrote:
SO i think i may have hit around 1000grams of carbs lastnight, box of apple turnovers, 10 cup cakes, 1 12 inch subway melt, and somthing like 4 medium bagels and cream cheese, large choco-peanut milk shake and peanut clusters and pizza it was pretty filling.
+[/quote]

And THAT is how you do it. Sounds awesome.[/quote]
[/quote]

Its pretty crazy. 4000 calories worth of carbs!

What are your guys work outs like? low volume heavy ass weight, hi volume moderate weight, HEAVY ASS WEIGHT-HIGH VOLUME?

I havent red the book, so Im not sure on the science behind it, other than the circadian rythm and GLut4 interaction helping the calories to the muscle and not the fat cells.

Im wondering if you need to be doing insane aounts of carbs like 700 to 1000 grams to repping the full benefits of BL…thoughts?
[/quote]