Carb Back Loading 2.0

Nutrition
224

[quote]Waylon wrote:
Thanks gremlin. I realize luecine can effect insulin, but the effect seems rather small. Of the studies you posted the first and third seem to be describing the combined effect of leucine and glucose. (Kind of hard to tell from the abstract.) Leucine has a multiplier effect when taken with carbs, 1+1=3 kind of thing. The second seems to deal with how the pathways by which leucine stimulates insulin are different from that used by carbs. My main interest was leucine/bcaa while training. Insulin release is inhibited during exercise and from the studies I posted earlier it seems this cancels out the small insulin response from luecine/bcaa.

[/quote]

Yeah, sorry. I was trying to find the article on different amino acids influxed into the body with a euglycemic clamp…I’ve been cruising through so many articles that I need a better system to sort them and store them. LOL. I’ve got some on my work laptop and some on my home laptop…

Anyway, long story short, any sort of Amino Acids will stimulate a leucine response. Don’t worry about the main focus of the studies, focus on the actions of leucine acting as an insulin secretagogue. It will stimulate insulin release. And if you’re looking to burn the most fat, you don’t want to activate insulin until you absolutely have to…once you eat protein:cho, you’re done. A very small amount of insulin will stop fat burning. You take away the storage hormone, you take away the bodies ability to store fat, the longer you stay under the curve (within certain parameters), the more fat you burn.

This is still an emerging science. That’s why it’s so fascinating. But seeing the big picture is the problem. What are you trying to do? How do I make these processes work with my goals? If you want to just build muscle and not worry about adding fat, yeah, go nuts…have 5g of leucine with every meal, eat carbs right after you train, regardless–we know this works for everybody out there. If you want to optimize burning fat and still build muscle at the same time…that’s what CBL is designed to do.

225

I cant stand measuring my calorie intake. I did it for a while weighing food and stuff but just got tired of it.

Been reading a little bit about this stuff. All im doing right now is just eating a bunch of meat, cheese, eggs and protien powder for most of the week, then one day out of the week ill just eat a big pizza or something in one sitting. EASY MONEY.

226

Kiefer is not God but he’s smart as hell, and if he can’t answer something he tells you, he’s solid on the Leucine. just eat food, fat/protein 1:1 grams, who needs bcaa’s ?

227

I have bought the book, just to make sure I understood everything and well I like to know why I am doing things as opposed to following them because I was told to. That’s just me.

As a result my new plan is:

7am Wake

8 - Kiefer Coffee (Coffee & Cream)

10 - More Coffee

1pm - 300g Chicken, Rapeseed Oil 2tbsp, Fish Oil Capsule, Peanut Butter, Lots of mixed veg.

3pm - Even more Coffee.

6pm - Workout

7pm - Whey 50g & Maltodextrin 50g

8.30pm - Clean Carbs (Cereal, white rice, potato) with some Meat

9.30pm - desert x 2, fish oil, Whey50g and Maltodextrin 50g

Thats about: Pro: 220g, Fats: 150g, Carbs: 300g

I am looking to lose fat whilst maintain size.

What I want to know and did not get from the book was is it better to space the above low carb meal into to i.e. 12pm and 3pm, thus 150g chicken etc… or group it into one therefore more time to be fasted prior workout.

Or are the benefits of either way so minimal that personal preference takes over?

228

[quote]TrapsLatsnHat wrote:
I have bought the book, just to make sure I understood everything and well I like to know why I am doing things as opposed to following them because I was told to. That’s just me.

As a result my new plan is:

7am Wake

8 - Kiefer Coffee (Coffee & Cream)

10 - More Coffee

1pm - 300g Chicken, Rapeseed Oil 2tbsp, Fish Oil Capsule, Peanut Butter, Lots of mixed veg.

3pm - Even more Coffee.

6pm - Workout

7pm - Whey 50g & Maltodextrin 50g

8.30pm - Clean Carbs (Cereal, white rice, potato) with some Meat

9.30pm - desert x 2, fish oil, Whey50g and Maltodextrin 50g

Thats about: Pro: 220g, Fats: 150g, Carbs: 300g

I am looking to lose fat whilst maintain size.

What I want to know and did not get from the book was is it better to space the above low carb meal into to i.e. 12pm and 3pm, thus 150g chicken etc… or group it into one therefore more time to be fasted prior workout.

Or are the benefits of either way so minimal that personal preference takes over?[/quote]

If you’re looking for more fat loss, it will depend upon how lean you are for the length of your fast. The lower your bodyfat level is, the smaller your reserves are for fuel, the shorter your fasts should be in order to keep the body from feeding on muscle tissue and downregulating your metabolism.

I would say if you’re about 12-15% you could essentially fast for 14-18hrs without eating to optimize fat loss.

Also your rapeseed oil, I haven’t seen anything really bad against it, but the recommendation is generally going to be more for animal fats vs vegetable fats. I don’t think the amount would cause you to stall out though. Same with peanut butter…however, how many CHO are in the peanut butter?

Other than those it looks pretty good.

v/r

Gremlin

229

I am approx 12% body fat. I am going by a few people and basic calliper tests. One of the ‘few people’ just made it through to nation teen shows…I think it is a safe bet.

14-18 hours…18 you sir are nuts. I can see the upper abs, just can’t seem to lose that little bit around the belly button…it’s so MF frustrating, I’ve tried all sorts. As soon as it goes I can start a clean bulk, but only once I have learned what works for my body to get into summer shape. That way I can plan better all year round. If you got anything let me know.

This may be silly but when you say animal fats are you referring to just cheeses i.e. cottage cheese?

The peanut butter I use is natural peanut butter, the jar is at work, yeah i look weird having a spoon full or two but hey…I look better than that twat stuffing doughnuts. Rant over. I’ll let you know tomorrow.

My weight is currently at 178.4 and has been around this for ages, 10months (Yeah i’ve tried everything to cut, initially went down from 187 to 178 in just over 3 months…then stalled, not got bigger and not much leaner)

230

[quote]TrapsLatsnHat wrote:
I am approx 12% body fat. I am going by a few people and basic calliper tests. One of the ‘few people’ just made it through to nation teen shows…I think it is a safe bet.

14-18 hours…18 you sir are nuts. I can see the upper abs, just can’t seem to lose that little bit around the belly button…it’s so MF frustrating, I’ve tried all sorts. As soon as it goes I can start a clean bulk, but only once I have learned what works for my body to get into summer shape. That way I can plan better all year round. If you got anything let me know.

This may be silly but when you say animal fats are you referring to just cheeses i.e. cottage cheese?

The peanut butter I use is natural peanut butter, the jar is at work, yeah i look weird having a spoon full or two but hey…I look better than that twat stuffing doughnuts. Rant over. I’ll let you know tomorrow.

My weight is currently at 178.4 and has been around this for ages, 10months (Yeah i’ve tried everything to cut, initially went down from 187 to 178 in just over 3 months…then stalled, not got bigger and not much leaner)[/quote]

Butter…animal fats. Cheese has other properties that will make you stall out in overconsumption. Bacon…animal fats and some protein. T-bone steak with…you guessed it fat. .

With the peanut butter, personally I can eat it right out of the can, but I save it for my back loads when I’m less concerned about it going to fat. The ULC portion appears to be quite important, although most people don’t struggle too much with it.

And your fasting length of 14-18 hours includes sleep. So 8 hours + 3-10hours. It’s a big window, but different people have different bodies. I know I don’t last much longer than about 13-14 hours before I have to eat something.

v/r

Gremlin

231

The peanut butter stats (Per 100g):

PRO: 24.9g
CARB: 10.1g
FAT: 50.2g

Hows that looking?

Gremlin, would you then advise I have the one meal or split it into two?

When you say fast, does that mean with or without coffee, at the moment I stop eating at 10pm and next eat at 12pm - 14 hours, should be fine right?

Also, this wasn’t covered by Kiefer, but what about cardio…would it not be really beneficial to do very light cardio (power walk) for about 20/30min upon waking pre/post coffee. The cardio isn’t high or even medium intensity. Surely, when your in prime fat burning mode, just being a little more active would burn a little more fat, no?

232

does anyone know if pre-workouts spike insulin? and also what do you guys eat on your off days, i dont think keifer went into much depth explaining the off days… and he contradicts himself a few times.

233

If I’m not wrong Kiefer’s recommendation for carb loading during off days is…“don’t”. Keep your carbs under 30g. However if your bulking, I think you might be entitled to one low and one high day.

234

[quote]TrapsLatsnHat wrote:
The peanut butter stats (Per 100g):

PRO: 24.9g
CARB: 10.1g
FAT: 50.2g

Hows that looking?

Gremlin, would you then advise I have the one meal or split it into two?

When you say fast, does that mean with or without coffee, at the moment I stop eating at 10pm and next eat at 12pm - 14 hours, should be fine right?

Also, this wasn’t covered by Kiefer, but what about cardio…would it not be really beneficial to do very light cardio (power walk) for about 20/30min upon waking pre/post coffee. The cardio isn’t high or even medium intensity. Surely, when your in prime fat burning mode, just being a little more active would burn a little more fat, no?[/quote]

PM’d you.

235

Would someone kindly send me the book?

236

[quote]BroMontana wrote:
does anyone know if pre-workouts spike insulin? and also what do you guys eat on your off days, i dont think keifer went into much depth explaining the off days… and he contradicts himself a few times.[/quote]

What kind of pre-workouts? On your off days you should be going ULC. But there are exceptions.

237

[quote]ebsu wrote:
Would someone kindly send me the book?[/quote]

…no…

238

[quote]caveman101 wrote:

[quote]ebsu wrote:
Would someone kindly send me the book?[/quote]

…no…[/quote]

I’m going with caveman on this one. If you really want to know you should buy the book. It’s a small investment and you will get access to D/H as well.

We all bought the book. Buckle down and spend the money. It’s worth Keifer’s time and effort to show that you support him enough to buy the book. He gives out a lot of information for free, and a lot of good information can be had for free from the web. But you don’t get the respect when you can’t even pay for the one thing he promotes to keep him in business.

I wouldn’t expect Thibs to give out his personal coaching for free or Meadows. Their time is valuable. It’s the most valuable thing you have, because you can never get it back. The more time I waste explaining the book to people, the less time I have as well. I won’t help members without at least base knowledge set from the book.

239

I see everything is fine here. Carry on!

240

[quote]TrapsLatsnHat wrote:
1pm - 300g Chicken, Rapeseed Oil 2tbsp, Fish Oil Capsule, Peanut Butter, Lots of mixed veg.
[/quote]

Despite not having read his book, even I know that Keifer himself considers coconut oil to be FAR superior to overrated crap like flax and canola.

And now you know…

241

[quote]chillain wrote:

[quote]TrapsLatsnHat wrote:
1pm - 300g Chicken, Rapeseed Oil 2tbsp, Fish Oil Capsule, Peanut Butter, Lots of mixed veg.
[/quote]

Despite not having read his book, even I know that Keifer himself considers coconut oil to be FAR superior to overrated crap like flax and canola.

And now you know…

[/quote]

I tried that stuff (Coconut oil) and boy did my taste buds punish me…foul that’s all I need to say. I’ll take some delayed results if it means enjoying what I eat.lol

242

[quote]TrapsLatsnHat wrote:

[quote]chillain wrote:

[quote]TrapsLatsnHat wrote:
1pm - 300g Chicken, Rapeseed Oil 2tbsp, Fish Oil Capsule, Peanut Butter, Lots of mixed veg.
[/quote]

Despite not having read his book, even I know that Keifer himself considers coconut oil to be FAR superior to overrated crap like flax and canola.

And now you know…

[/quote]

I tried that stuff (Coconut oil) and boy did my taste buds punish me…foul that’s all I need to say. I’ll take some delayed results if it means enjoying what I eat.lol
[/quote]

No offense, but this conclusion is based on a false premise.

Nothing foul about quality virgin coconut oil, and I’d wager anything that even you would agree with that. Now any oil-gone-rancid, on the other hand, that sounds exactly like what you’ve described.

Mark my words: buy a quality product and you’ll be enjoying yourself just fine.

243

Well your 2699 posts ahead of me and a member since 05 - I think it’s worth another go then. :smiley:

Flax is sick, and I won’t retry that if arnold him self said so.

BTW, how much cream are you all putting in your coffee, and how often are you having it (any time I shouldn’t have it?).