Alot of people think they can do wide-grip pullups, and they cant.
If you can do a lat-pulldown with your own body weight, then you can do wide-grip pullups. [/quote]
I don’t agree with you there… I find lat pull downs much easier than pull-ups with the same grip. Pull-ups are IMO a far harder exercise to cheat on than pull-downs. I can do ten or so pull-downs at slightly over bodyweight but there’s no way I can do a similar number of wide grip pull ups. Used to be able to before I put on 50lbs.
As far as pull-downs go, I recently purchased one of those wide bars with the handles on each end- so you can do pulldowns with palms facing each other. For me- and it may not be for anyone else, I find that I feel this in my lats more than either palms away or palms facing with a conventional lat pull-down bar.
I just do weighted chins and wide grip pullups and I find that this has improved my lats quite a bit. I like to keep my reps <6 and volume >25. If you can do more, then you need to add weight.
Just my $.02 but i find when doing pullups that if I allow myslef to come down to a dead hang, arms all the way stretched, then I really hit the lats, otherwise my arms take over and i get a good bi pump and not much else.
Another piece of advice for making sure the lats do the majority of work during pull-ups/pull-downs is to use a thumbless grip. Try it both with a standard grip and a thumbless grip and see if you don’t feel the difference.
This is for someone who isn’t strong enough to do super wide pull-ups (luckily I don’t suffer from this problem):
There are two ways to put yourself at the level where you need to be in order to do really wide pullups that I recommend. I do not believe in using Pulldowns as a means of building pull-up strength, because your forearms are not activated like they would be in pull-ups.
The first means of getting yourself to the level of doing really wide pull-ups is to have a partner. Make sure you do the work-Have him bear hug your waist and lift you ONLY in the points that you can not do it whatsoever (whether it is the concentric or eccentric phase).
The second means (which should be used with the first) is to do high reps with regular pullups (arms are not really wide, nor close grip, just normal length apart-where you find most comfortable).
You can’t ride a bike without training wheels (having a partner), or run without walking first (doing regular pullups easily before doing very wide grip pull-ups).
[quote]smallnomore wrote:
Pull-ups aren’t doing the trick? You might not be doing them correctly. I find a lot of people don’t know how to fire their lats during vertical and horizontal pulling movements. They end up being “all arms” instead. They’ll tell me their biceps are killing them and they don’t feel a thing in their lats.
One trick I learned is to focus on how your elbows are moving. Forget about what your hands are doing, whether pulling on the handle or gripping the chin bar. Focusing on the elbows tends to “trick” the mind into firing the lats more.
As an example, if you’re performing pull-ups, don’t focus on getting your chin over the bar, or pulling yourself up by your hands, focus on moving your elbows down and in toward your body. You should feel the lats kicking in more this way.
Good Luck[/quote]
Best post so far. I don’t have anything original to add to this discussion; I just felt that smallnomore’s post was worth repeating.
I, too, used to be one of those “all arms” guys when working my back until I started mentally zeroing in on “feeling” the lats work when performing pull-downs, ups, or rows.
It might sound somewhat silly, but it definitely DOES work.
Make sure you do the work-Have him bear hug your waist and lift you ONLY in the points that you can not do it whatsoever (whether it is the concentric or eccentric phase).
Damn, if I gotta have a dude hug me around the waist, I think I’ll keep my little scrawny lats!
Seriously, pre-exhaustion has helped mine a bit. Pullover variations before pulldowns with rowing last in the exercise order has been a big improvement.
Make sure you do the work-Have him bear hug your waist and lift you ONLY in the points that you can not do it whatsoever (whether it is the concentric or eccentric phase).
Damn, if I gotta have a dude hug me around the waist, I think I’ll keep my little scrawny lats!
Seriously, pre-exhaustion has helped mine a bit. Pullover variations before pulldowns with rowing last in the exercise order has been a big improvement.[/quote]
Thats kinda what I thought. When I’m worn out to where I can’t do a pullup I just put a band in it and put my feet in the band. That way there’s no crotch face action.
You need to get that feel for pulling with your lats.
Pulling with the elbows really helps.
Touch is good as well.
Using straps may make it easier to focus on your lats.
Tensing and flexing your lats between sets is also a good idea.
Maybe your back needs activation work:
Behind the neck pull aparts and scap wall slides work really well for this.
Keeping your chest high is important. Rounding your back will fuck your lat recruitment up.
I always think of pulling mu chest up to the bar og up to the handle if I am ussing the pulldown.
Once you know how to work your lats you will be able to build them with all kinds of rows and pulldowns.
[quote]Fulmen wrote:
You need to try doing pullups with a grip WIDER THAN YOUR SHOULDERS. I’m talking a wiiiiiiiide grip pullup. Trust me, it’ll add width to your lats.[/quote]
If you don’t monkey swing to that widegrip it isn’t wide enough.