Absolutely. Kill the fuckers, without hesitation. Child rapists are the worst form of scum on earth…
[quote]makkun wrote:
Any rapist deprives the victim (of whatever age, in whatever relation to the victim) of this basic pursuit. But my view is that the death penalty is wrong - as a legal measure it is simply too unsafe as it can’t be reversed and may (and does) deprive innocents of that pursuit as well. That supersedes any other consideration imho. Prison is no fun - being in prison for raping a child is even less thanks their [edit: fellow ]inmates; if you want the perpetrators to be punished, that is the way to go.
Makkun[/quote]
I believe it’s only law-abiding citizens that have the right to “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness”. Though I suppose I could try that should I get a ticket from a police officer for bad driving; I could refuse to show up for the court date. After all, they’re depriving me of my right to liberty right there.
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
[…]
I believe it’s only law-abiding citizens that have the right to “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness”. Though I suppose I could try that should I get a ticket from a police officer for bad driving; I could refuse to show up for the court date. After all, they’re depriving me of my right to liberty right there. [/quote]
Every society sets constraints upon its citizens with regards to civil rights and liberties. But that’s not the point: the point against the death penalty (in any case) is to make sure you don’t deprive the above rights to the people who may be executed due to judicial error. No system is reliable enough to be trusted on that, as the result cannot be reversed.
Even if you see the death penalty as an acceptable punishment, this risk outweighs the benefit. The wish to punish the guilty doesn’t imo outweigh the risk of wrongfully killing a minority of innocents - especially when there is a reversible alternative in life imprisonment.
Makkun
It appears that the “evolving standards of decency” didn’t include the federal government as Kennedy indicated it did. Military law (UCMJ) allows the death sentence in the case of rape. Ooops.
By the way, the last military execution took place on April 13, 1961, when Pvt. John A. Bennett was put to death by hanging. His crime: the rape of an 11-year-old girl.
This is a horrible, horrible decision. Rape, particulary of a child, is just as bad as murder. Those kids will never ever be right again. Ever.
[quote]makkun wrote:
Mufasa wrote:
Almost a week later this decision bothers me…and I have not been able to find one argument that gives it legitimacy (Again…I am biased…)
And the “It’s usually a family member” argument, to me, runs shallow…sorry…
That’s what makes it so bad - only a minority of sexual assaults (or any for that matter) is committed by strangers. Victims and their families often loose their fathers, uncles, family friends, which tends to add to the guilt they feel.
I was thinking the other day how in direct, often brutal ways the Child Rapist deprives an innocent person of the most basic of our ideals…and they do it before a person has had much time to even live a Life…
And that the basic pursuit of “Life, Liberty and Happiness…”
Mufasa
Any rapist deprives the victim (of whatever age, in whatever relation to the victim) of this basic pursuit. But my view is that the death penalty is wrong - as a legal measure it is simply too unsafe as it can’t be reversed and may (and does) deprive innocents of that pursuit as well. That supersedes any other consideration imho. Prison is no fun - being in prison for raping a child is even less thanks their [edit: fellow ]inmates; if you want the perpetrators to be punished, that is the way to go.
Makkun[/quote]
Maybe so. But the distinction between rape and murder is illusory. If it’s available for one, it should be for the other. This is also the age of DNA evidence. Proof can be incontrovertible. I can see not allowing the death penalty in cases where there is no DNA evidence. But where there is?..
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
WWJD?
Jesus didn’t stop capital punishment.
From what I understand, with exception to a few miracles, Jesus didn’t really stop anything.
He turned water into wine so we know he stopped sobriety.[/quote]
The kind of wine he was drinking was so lightly fermented that it was not much use for getting drunk. It had enough fermentation to prevent getting dysentery but not much more.
[quote]Magnate wrote:
Mufasa wrote:
Well; as others have said, maybe there will be some justice…
The guy is now back in the general population of Louisiana State Prison, also known as “Angola”; branded the toughest, no-nonsense Prison in the U.S.
Mufasa
Start a pool for the day he’s found dead?[/quote]
Prisoners that are at high risk of being killed sometimes get put in a lockdown unit which is basically permanent solitary confinement. It is no life.
[quote]jsbrook wrote:
This is a horrible, horrible decision. Rape, particulary of a child, is just as bad as murder. Those kids will never ever be right again. Ever. [/quote]
So you feel that any child that has been sexually assaulted is “damaged goods” and therefore no longer worthy of life?!?! That’s kind of harsh on the child don’t you think?
[quote]jsbrook wrote:
makkun wrote:
Mufasa wrote:
But the distinction between rape and murder is illusory.[/quote]
There is a world of difference between alive and dead. Life is not an illusion, it is real and so is death. There cannot be anymore of a contrast.
[quote]Sifu wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
makkun wrote:
Mufasa wrote:
But the distinction between rape and murder is illusory.
There is a world of difference between alive and dead. Life is not an illusion, it is real and so is death. There cannot be anymore of a contrast.[/quote]
You just love to argue with me, don’t you? Well, I’m sick of arguing with you. Child rape is one of the worst crimes imaginable. That kid’s life is shattered. And in my opinion that act deserves the same punishment as murder. Nothing’s going to change that.
[quote]Sifu wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
This is a horrible, horrible decision. Rape, particulary of a child, is just as bad as murder. Those kids will never ever be right again. Ever.
So you feel that any child that has been sexually assaulted is “damaged goods” and therefore no longer worthy of life?!?! That’s kind of harsh on the child don’t you think?
[/quote]
Nope. That’s not what I said at all. I’m not taking the bait, either.
The hell we can’t.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10483018
[quote]jsbrook wrote:
Sifu wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
makkun wrote:
Mufasa wrote:
But the distinction between rape and murder is illusory.
There is a world of difference between alive and dead. Life is not an illusion, it is real and so is death. There cannot be anymore of a contrast.
You just love to argue with me, don’t you? Well, I’m sick of arguing with you. Child rape is one of the worst crimes imaginable. That kid’s life is shattered. And in my opinion that act deserves the same punishment as murder. Nothing’s going to change that.
[/quote]
Actually I don’t like arguing with you. Sorry if it is hard for you to accept that there is a big difference between alive and dead. I not disputing the terrible nature of the crime and I understand the vindictiveness. I just think you and some of the other guys are letting the drama get the better of you.
Dead men tell no tales is a very old saying. If we reserve the death penalty for murder, it makes leaving a living witness a gamble worth taking. If on the other hand a molester is going to die whether they kill the child or not what is the incentive to leave a living witness?
With the death penalty for rape there is no incentive to leave a living witness. All it does is raise the stakes for the rapist and their victim. Because the rapist has nothing to lose by killing their victim. And the victim loses a good reason for their attacker to spare them when pleading for their life.
[quote]Sifu wrote:
If we reserve the death penalty for murder, it makes leaving a living witness a gamble worth taking. If on the other hand a molester is going to die whether they kill the child or not what is the incentive to leave a living witness?
With the death penalty for rape there is no incentive to leave a living witness. All it does is raise the stakes for the rapist and their victim. Because the rapist has nothing to lose by killing their victim. And the victim loses a good reason for their attacker to spare them when pleading for their life.[/quote]
Exactly. Well put.
[quote]jsbrook wrote:
Sifu wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
makkun wrote:
Mufasa wrote:
But the distinction between rape and murder is illusory.
There is a world of difference between alive and dead. Life is not an illusion, it is real and so is death. There cannot be anymore of a contrast.
You just love to argue with me, don’t you? Well, I’m sick of arguing with you. Child rape is one of the worst crimes imaginable. That kid’s life is shattered. And in my opinion that act deserves the same punishment as murder. Nothing’s going to change that.
[/quote]
lots of people who have never been raped as a child or an adult like to claim that it is worse than being killed…its an oppinion that isnt worth much
Good point lovernotafighter. I have friends who were molested as children. There is a greater variety to how these things play out than the usual news story tag lines would lead you to believe.
If it bleeds it leads, that is how the news works. This is why you usually don’t see incest stories on the news. It doesn’t have the same dramatic value.
Men like to see vengeful punishments more than anyone else. That is playing out very clearly here. If you look at the people who are the most gung ho for executing it is grown men. The problem I see with this is angry grown men putting their burning desire to see vengeful punishment loosing sight of what is in the best interests of the kids.
Children are not vindictive like grown men. If you put a gun in a six year olds hands and say blow the naughty mans brains out because I want to see him die, it is highly likely the child will tell you no because their brains are not wired for revenge like ours.
This death penalty law puts a child in the position were they have to choose to kill someone who potentially could be a family member. There will be kids who will stay in a molestation situation rather than kill someone.
This girl’s life is not over…if she get’s no care or love after this it may be but humans, especially children, can be amazingly resilient if they get love and support.
maybe everyone who’s moved so much by this crime that they want to kill the guy should pony up and start a fund for her or something you know ? give her something to look forward to other than a bunch of people showing pity for “that poor ruined girl”.
Unbeliebably, I’m with Sifu here - good points well made.
Makkun
[quote]Sifu wrote:
Good point lovernotafighter. I have friends who were molested as children. There is a greater variety to how these things play out than the usual news story tag lines would lead you to believe.
If it bleeds it leads, that is how the news works. This is why you usually don’t see incest stories on the news. It doesn’t have the same dramatic value.
Men like to see vengeful punishments more than anyone else. That is playing out very clearly here. If you look at the people who are the most gung ho for executing it is grown men. The problem I see with this is angry grown men putting their burning desire to see vengeful punishment loosing sight of what is in the best interests of the kids.
Children are not vindictive like grown men. If you put a gun in a six year olds hands and say blow the naughty mans brains out because I want to see him die, it is highly likely the child will tell you no because their brains are not wired for revenge like ours.
This death penalty law puts a child in the position were they have to choose to kill someone who potentially could be a family member. There will be kids who will stay in a molestation situation rather than kill someone.
[/quote]
the people whom i mentioned above just want all the bad monsters to go away instead of confronting them…a sad tendency in male society to turn your back on something that you fear and cant understand