OK, enough liberal baiting for now. I believe that terrorism is not an aspect of Muslim faith as a whole, and only a very few people are actually the perpetrators. But I have to wonder why the Muslims aren’t trying to clean their own house. Why aren’t the Muslims outraged by the behavior of their own? Heck, the Catholics are now outraged by their priests, why aren’t the Muslims outraged by murderous extremists in their religion? I would expect some Muslim leader to step forward and condemn their actions and call the faithful to arms to clean house. Why hasn’t this happened? Did I miss it? Is the Muslim faith not organized to do this? Did they really ALL come to America in order to hate their adopted homeland? What gives?
“they are doing it because they hate us”
Yes well then maybe you should ask yourself “why” do they hate us so much?
“Recently in Sydney, a group of 15 muslim Lebanese men were jailed for pack raping 7 women based on the fact that they were white and christian”
Sound’s like someone’s jealous.
“Don’t tell me I’m uninformed and immature you ignorant fuckhead. I have a degree in political science. I has read lots’n lots of books I has”
Sorry, I forgot to add, “all-round-Aussie-racist Wanker” to my list of adjectives. If you have a university honours degree (which is, judging from your post, something Mummy and Daddy bought you for Xmas) and you have read so many books, why don’t you actually use some of that knowledge instead of coming off an ignorant twit?
This is the next step from the cold war.
Our weakness is that we have scruples, ethics. All of us think the same as Mike the Lib said, but maybe that is our biggest weakness. The terrorists don’t have these scruples and they have nothing to lose. You can’t have a conscience if you want to win against people like that.
I’m sure most Muslims condemn terrorism, as do most Irish Catholics. But what are they doing to “clean their house”? Maybe if they had an axe hovering over their necks they’d start giving up the terrorists.
Snipped from another website (for non commercial use)
“Poll: Majority of Palestinians See Israel’s Elimination as Goal”
poll conducted by the Palestinian Jerusalem Media and Communication Center (JMCC). (Reuters, June 11, 2002)
when you hear the Palestinians say “End of Occupation” do they mean “A Palestinian State alongside Israel”, or “In place of Israel?”
The Western world thinks they mean “End of occupation in the West Bank and Gaza”
But what the Palestinians actually mean is
“End of Israel”.
The map of “Liberated Palestine” on the official website of the Palestinian National Authority, Ministry of Parliamentary Affairs
is the map of the entire State of Israel.
the map of “Liberated Palestine” featured on the official emblem of the Palestinian National Authority’s Ministry of Industry:
is the map of the entire State of Israel.
the map of "Liberated Palestine" on Arafat’s Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO) official emblem
is the map of the entire State of Israel.
the map of "Liberated Palestine" on Yasser Arafat’s uniform.
is the map of the entire State of Israel.
This is the map of "Liberated Palestine" in the official Palestinian Authority’s education system schoolbooks.
Page 64 of the Palestinian Authority’s official 5th grade school book: "there’s no Israel"
It is the map of the entire State of Israel.
the map of "Liberated Palestine" as a statuette displayed at the Principal’s room in a school in the Palestinian town of Tulkarm A dagger is thrust in the "heart" of the land. Blood trickles from the wound and irrigates the plant of the Palestinian State.
is the map of the entire State of Israel. ]
Something else from another website http://www.cactus48.com/ considerations.html–this is from a publication by Jews for Justice:
“Why should the Arabs make peace? If I was an Arab leader, I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. Sure, God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them? Our God is not theirs, We come from Israel, it’s true, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we came here and stole their country. Why should they accept that?” David Ben-Gurion, quoted in “The Jewish Paradox” by Nathan Goldman, former president of the World Jewish Congress
To Hyok- the difference, you dumbass, is that the website Coyote refers to is official, and the one that you are quoting is NOT. I could just as well make a website which says that Geroge W. Bush’s goal is to kill all non-Texan Americans, but would it mean anything? No, because it’s got no backing. Idiot.
Denying the Jewish people a country is playing with fire as well. Everywhere they have gone (except the US to; an great extent at least) the Jewish people get percecuted. Frankly they NEED that land. It would be nice if both Israel and the Palestinians could live in peace but you’ll have to ask the Islamic terrorists first as they’re bent on the complete destruction of Israel.
To be honest when Hitler initially took power he deported the Jews. However not one single country (not even the US) would take them and they were turned back to Europe and ended up in Nazi ovens.
I am still totally baffled as to why anyone could sympathize with a terroristic society. Especially one that has now hit us US citizens right where we live.
Incidently, Islamic militants are busy murdering civilians in Kashmir and torturing and killing Christians in southern Sudan. Not only this but taking the children as slaves and forces women to become Muslim. If they refuse they can be brutally tortured and/or killed.
A scary world we live in 
The probs in the Mid East got started several hundred years ago when Israel decided that they wanted to rebuild Solomon’s temple. Only, guess what? The Muslims just built the Dome of the Rock right there! So that’s why this whole thing between Israel and Palestine got started. They’ve been duking it out for all these years over a simple piece of land! So, in order for me to live up to my family name, I offer any of the four possible proposals to end this nonsense: (1) nuke the dome of the rock. Only thing is, it’ll piss off the Muslims (and Bin Laden) and America will probably get nuked in return. (2) we could cut Solomon’s temple into two pieces, give one half to the Muslims and one half to the Jews… no wait that wouldn’t solve anything! (3) we could nuke the whole area (the temple and the dome.) This would make both sides pissed off (so what else is new?) (4) or we could realize that both the Muslims and the Jews are both acting like babies, neither side is right, both sides have their priorities way out of line (thousands of people dying over buildings!) therefore it is not America’s place to take sides. No wait, that would make our politicians mad, becasue then they’d run out of campaign material for the rest of their lives, and the politicians’ children and grandchildren wouldn’t have any campaign material either!.. fuck it, this thing will never get resolved!
Random Weights…
(1) The Muslim world hate us because we have done some bad things to them, as has every race and culture to others throughout time. For god’s sake, read! Educate yourself if you want to start passing judgement on other people for their political beliefs. And read book written by REAL historians, not by Left-wing storytellers. The Muslim world is JEALOUS of the West. I can’t be bothered explaining it, lets just say we are the HAVES and they are the HAVE NOTS, and they can’t handle it. (2) I can’t understand your point about me being jealous of a 15 strong gang pack raping women. If you consider that something to be jealous of I feel sorry for you. (3) “Rascist”. You know someone has no argument and nothing intelligent to say when they wheel that one out. Let me guess, next comes “loser”. Sorry, I have no respect for you. Anyone who uses the “rascist” tag is a moron. (4) Speaking of race, you are the one who has brought race into it. I believe this is a cultural/religious issue, race being only circumstantial. (5) I’m not an Aussie, and it took me 6 years to pay my degree off.
I think we can stop the terror. Here’s why, and it may sound unreasonable but here goes: At some point it’ll become too much and end with a “final solution” type scenario. It’ll be all-out and everyone who’s not on one side will be on the other. And no, I don’t believe that the fanatics will win, or that I should see it “from another point of view” or that I’m being culturally biased. I don’t even frikin’ live in America!
Consider this: The Purple Heart (U.S. of A’s highest military honor) is given for saving lives. The highest military honor for the terrorists (Al-Queda, Hamas, etc…)is to take lives and for themselves to also die and become a martyr. Rules:
- Saving lives = right. 2. Taking lives = wrong. (Taking lives of those who dedicate themselves to killing innocent people is an exception to the 2nd rule)
Apoolo - (1) I don’t know what history books your’e reading, but I would like to know exactly where it states such a broad generalisation such as the one that the “Muslim world hates us because we have done bad things to them”. Funny, I could have sworn that some good friends of mine are Muslims and Arabs and they have no problem at all with Westerners. Sounds like your’e the one with the shitty attitude and rascist agenda. Jealousy, Ha, what a fucking gyp. You can’t be bothered explaining it because you can’t. Go and make your racist generalisations elsewhere.
I use the word “racist” not as a weak ass defense (which you seem to excel at) but as a definition to describe the attitude conveyed by your post. “Racism” is defined as (a) “The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability” or (b)“Discrimination or prejudice based on race.”
As for the respect issue. Buddy, you never had my respect to begin with. Go sell you generalised, racist rhetoric to the redneck nazi sites you obviously gleam your (ahem, lol) “extensive knowledge of history from”. I will waste no more time reading your posts from now on.
I like this…
[Breaking the Vicious Cycle
Preserving Our Liberties While Fighting Terrorism
by Timothy Lynch
Timothy Lynch is director of the Cato Institute's Project on Criminal Justice.
Executive Summary
When terrorists perpetrate atrocities against innocent American civilians, the public response is initially one of shock, which then quickly turns into anger. It is also common for people to experience a deep sense of anxiety in the aftermath of such attacks—especially as they hear poignant stories about fellow citizens who were so suddenly and unexpectedly killed. Such stories are a harsh reminder of one's own mortality and vulnerability.
Government officials typically respond to terrorist attacks by proposing and enacting "antiterrorism" legislation. To assuage the wide-spread anxiety of the populace, policymakers make the dubious claim that they can prevent terrorism by curtailing the privacy and civil liberties of the people. Because everyone wants to be safe and secure, such legislation is usually very popular and passes the legislative chambers of Congress with lopsided majorities. As the president signs the antiterrorism bill into effect, too many people indulge in the assumption that they are now safe, since the police, with their newly acquired powers, will somehow be able to foil the terrorists before they can kill again. The plain truth, however, is that it is only a matter of time before the next attack.
This cycle of terrorist attack followed by government curtailment of civil liberties must be broken—or our society will eventually lose the key attribute that has made it great: freedom. The American people can accept the reality that the president and Congress are simply not capable of preventing terrorist attacks from occurring. Policymakers should stop pretending otherwise and focus their attention on combating terrorism within the framework of a free society.]
Random-good, don’t read my posts. It’s really obvious you have nothing to say anyway. You keep bringing up this rascism thing, but like I have said, this is not a race issue. Therefore you ARE using it as a copout. You are putting words into my mouth that you would like me to be saying, but the truth is I’m not. I don’t read Neo-Nazi stuff, never had. It is left-wing shite. You have labelled me as a Neo-Nazi but I’m not. You’re angry that I am putting forward ideas and arguments that you disagree with and probably can’t understand. You are also frustrated by your inability to have a logical rational debate, as you have no ideas or arguments yourself, therefore you resort to name calling such as “rascist”, “neo-nazi” etc. The fact that, if you actually asked me, I think Neo-Nazis and Rascists are idiots is beyond your understanding. Your thinking is “hey, he’s saying something I disagree with, so he must be a rascist, {insert childish name calling) etc”.
And I still don’t understand your jibe about me being jealous of rapists. Perhaps there’s something you’re not telling us, you misogynistic, ignorant FUCK. You are a waste of space, how on earth did you make it out of your mother’s womb?
Hmm…just re-read all this. Can’t find any of my posts which could be deemed to be rascist. Hmmm…Random Weights are you sure all this hatred is supposed to be directed at me? There are many more posts that could be deemed rascist and definately more “bloodthirsty” than mine. I just took exception initially because someone (NOT you, although I think you think I directed abuse at you) inferred that everyone he disagreed with was simply uninformed and ignorant.
Now I suppose Random Weights will commit a suicide bombing on Apollo.
Well, I did provoke her. And it looks like it’s that time of the month too. I should have read the signs! Irrational hysterics, childish name calling…oh shit, here she com
Just thinking,
we all know why Israel and Palestine are killing each other but did our old friend Osama ever actually say what the hell he wanted, or why he organised sept 11. Was it over the Israel/palestine issue or just general hatred of the US and a desire to kill innocent people?
And to Random , Apollo was right about the gang rape but it wasnt a single occurance like it sounded (15 on 7) but a gang of 15 that raped 7 girls individually on seperate occasions! They were caught after 2 or 3 and then let out awaiting a trail and racked up a few more! plus during the court procedings the mothers of the rapists were seen spitting at the victims WTF. So if he comes across as not having a lot of sympathy for muslims I can understand why (lets not get in to the generalisation arguement, we are all intelligent enough not to brand an entire race by the actions of a few lunatics, but there really is a air of hatred and a lot of race hate crimes being perpetrated against Aussies in Australia)
Don’t forget, Israel’s the size of, roughly, New Jersey, and is surrounded on all sides by enemies and the Mediterranean Sea to the west. The U.S. isn’t faced with such prospects. Also, Israel has declared enemies living within its own borders (that would be the Palestinians). Again, the U.S. isn’t faced with this. I think if Israel was in the U.S.'s position with the security measures thay have and have had in place for some time, September 11th probably would never have happened.
Martin, the following is an interview between a Pakistani journalist and OBL, taken on November 9th. It answers your question (on whether OBL perpetrated Sept. 11 because of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict). He is full of shit when he says that he has nuclear bombs but is holding them as a deterrent. Like he wouldn’t use them the minute he gets his hands on them. An obvious PR stunt. Anyways, the interview:
Hamid Mir: After American bombing on Afghanistan on Oct 7, you told the Al-Jazeera TV that the Sept 11 attacks had been carried out by some Muslims. How did you know they were Muslims ?
Osama bin Laden: The Americans themselves released a list of the suspects of the Sept 11 attacks, saying that the persons named were involved in the attacks. They were all Muslims, of whom 15 belonged to Saudi Arabia, two were from the UAE and one from Egypt. According to the information I have, they were all passengers.Fateha was held for them in their homes. But America said they were hijackers.
HM: In your statement of Oct 7, you expressed satisfaction over the Sept 11 attacks, although a large number of innocent people perished in them, hundreds among them were Muslims. Can you justify the killing of innocent men in the light of Islamic teachings ?
OBL: This is a major point in jurisprudence. In my view, if an enemy occupies a Muslim territory and uses common people as human shield, then it is permitted to attack that enemy. For instance, if bandits barge into a home and hold a child hostage, then the child’s father can attack the bandits and in that attack even the child may get hurt.
America and its allies are massacring us in Palestine, Chechenya, Kashmir and Iraq. The Muslims have the right to attack America in reprisal. The Islamic Shariat says Muslims should not live in the land of the infidel for long. The Sept 11 attacks were not targeted at women and children. The real targets were America’s icons of military and economic power.
The Holy Prophet (peace be upon him) was against killing women and children. When he saw a dead woman during a war, he asked why was she killed ? If a child is above 13 and wields a weapon against Muslims, then it is permitted to kill him.
The American people should remember that they pay taxes to their government, they elect their president, their government manufactures arms and gives them to Israel and Israel uses them to massacre Palestinians. The American Congress endorses all government measures and this proves that the entire America is responsible for the atrocities perpetrated against Muslims. The entire America, because they elect the Congress.
I ask the American people to force their government to give up anti-Muslim policies. The American people had risen against their government’s war in Vietnam. They must do the same today. The American people should stop the massacre of Muslims by their government.
HM: Can it be said that you are against the American government, not the American people ?
OSB: Yes! We are carrying on the mission of our Prophet, Muhammad (peace be upon him). The mission is to spread the word of God, not to indulge massacring people. We ourselves are the target of killings, destruction and atrocities. We are only defending ourselves. This is defensive Jihad. We want to defend our people and our land. That is why I say that if we don’t get security, the Americans, too would not get security.
This is a simple formula that even an American child can understand. This is the formula of live and let live.
HM: The head of Egypt’s Jamia Al-Azhar has issued a fatwa (edict) against you, saying that the views and beliefs of Osama bin Laden have nothing to do with Islam. What do you have to say about that ?
OSB: The fatwa of any official Aalim has no value for me. History is full of such Ulema who justify Riba, who justify the occupation of Palestine by the Jews, who justify the presence of American troops around Harmain Sharifain. These people support the infidels for their personal gain.The true Ulema support the Jihad against America. Tell me if Indian forces invaded Pakistan what would you do? The Israeli forces occupy our land and the American troops are on our territory. We have no other option but to launch Jihad.
HM: Some Western media claim that you are trying to acquire chemical and nuclear weapons. How much truth is there in such reports?
OSB: I heard the speech of American President Bush yesterday (Oct 7). He was scaring the European countries that Osama wanted to attack with weapons of mass destruction. I wish to declare that if America used chemical or nuclear weapons against us, then we may retort with chemical and nuclear weapons. We have the weapons as deterrent.
HM: Where did you get these weapons from ?
OSB: Go to the next question.
HM: Demonstrations are being held in many European countries against American attacks on Afghanistan. Thousands of the protesters were non-Muslims. What is your opinion about those non-Muslim protesters ?
OSB: There are many innocent and good-hearted people in the West. American media instigates them against Muslims. However, some good-hearted people are protesting against American attacks because human nature abhors injustice.
The Muslims were massacred under the UN patronage in Bosnia. I am ware that some officers of the State Department had resigned in protest. Many years ago the US ambassador in Egypt had resigned in protest against the policies of President Jimmy Carter. Nice and civilized are everywhere. The Jewish lobby has taken America and the West hostage.
HM: Some people say that war is no solution to any issue. Do you think that some political formula could be found to stop the present war ?
OSB: You should put this question to those who have started this war. We are only defending ourselves.
HM: If America got out of Saudi Arabia and the Al-Aqsa mosque was liberated, would you then present yourself for trial in some Muslim country ?
OSB: Only Afghanistan is an Islamic country. Pakistan follows the English law. I don’t consider Saudi Arabia an Islamic country. If the Americans have charges against me, we too have a charge sheet against them.
HM: Pakistan government decided to cooperate with America after Sept 11, which you don’t consider right. What do you think Pakistan should have done but to cooperate with America ?
OSB: The government of Pakistan should have the wishes of the people in view. It should not have surrendered to the unjustified demands of America. America does not have solid proof against us. It just has some surmises. It is unjust to start bombing on the basis of those surmises.
HM: Had America decided to attack Pakistan with the help of India and Israel, what would have we done ?
OSB: What has America achieved by attacking Afghanistan ? We will not leave the Pakistani people and the Pakistani territory at anybody’s mercy.
We will defend Pakistan. But we have been disappointed by Gen Pervez Musharraf. He says that the majority is with him. I say the majority is against him.
Bush has used the word crusade. This is a crusade declared by Bush. It is no wisdom to barter off blood of Afghan brethren to improve Pakistan’s economy. He will be punished by the Pakistani people and Allah.
Right now a great war of Islamic history is being fought in Afghanistan. All the big powers are united against Muslims. It is ’ sawab ’ to participate in this war.
HM: A French newspaper has claimed that you had kidney problem and had secretly gone to Dubai for treatment last year. Is that correct ?
OSB: My kidneys are all right. I did not go to Dubai last year. One British newspaper has published an imaginary interview with Islamabad dateline with one of my sons who lives in Saudi Arabia. All this is false.
HM: Is it correct that a daughter of Mulla Omar is your wife or your daughter is Mulla Omar’s wife ?
OSB: (Laughs). All my wives are Arabs ( and all my daughters are married to Arab Mujahideen). I have spiritual relationship with Mulla Omar. He is a great and brave Muslim of this age. He does not fear anyone but Allah. He is not under any personal relationship or obligation to me. He is only discharging his religious duty. I, too, have not chosen this life out of any personal consideration.
as i have recently watched Devils advocate, lets go over the 7 deadly sins. Jealosy is definately one of them. Gluttony could definately be applied to America, but quite frankly the Arab world sucks. As Bill Maher put it in the race of 2 civilizations, we won and they didnt.