CP trains athletes, not bodybuilders.
just sayin
Anyone can give advice, but what makes it valid advice is if they have something to back it up with and if they are speaking from experience. It’s not that us smaller guys can’t give advice, it’s just that people are more apt to take advice from the built guys.
[quote]Artem wrote:
streamline wrote:
Artem wrote:
streamline wrote:
Unless someone has documented their workouts and diet they should limit their advice to direct questions not complex routines. Most individuals will forget more than they will remember about how they got where they are.
Eductaed professionals have studied the how to’s and how not to’s. Plus the different types of genetic codes that make up the vast population.
Personally I preferr figuring it out for myself through trial and error. Which works for me because I’m a fast learner and an analyst by nature.
Some individuals will do best with a trainer who has an iron boot and a serious bark in their voice.
There are no absolutes, everything does not work for everyone. So when in doubt ask a pro.
I don’t think someone will forget something they do every single day for years.
I have changed routines more than I could possible remember without recording them. Every athlete whether they’re bodybuilding or running have evolved in every aspect. Are you still doing what you did the first year you worked out?
No, but I think any big guy remember why they did what they did and are qualified to give advice. I’m also going for the body of a bodybuilder and not a skater.
[/quote]
Does most of this stuff about training, nutrition, supps, originate from dweebie guys in lab coats?
I’d tell you what to do, but I don’t weigh enough.
Obviously there are going to be huge and ripped individuals who know nothing about how they got that way. There are also going to be individuals who have a wealth of knowlegde but don’t “look the part”. The bottom line, in a majority of the cases is that if you really knew the best methods to look big, ripped, athletic, whatever… would you actually CHOOSE to look like crap?
A “trainer” at my gym looks like a complete bum, he has no clue what he’s doing (which is besides the point of what he looks like), but always has to chime in on what I’m doing (usually trying to convince everyone else that what I’m doing is wrong). When he commented that I must have used steroids to get in shape for my contest, I pointed out that I only weighed 170 lbs for the show, and that if he really believed that, then it truly showed that he really knows nothing about training or nutrition.
S
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
Obviously there are going to be huge and ripped individuals who know nothing about how they got that way. There are also going to be individuals who have a wealth of knowlegde but don’t “look the part”. The bottom line, in a majority of the cases is that if you really knew the best methods to look big, ripped, athletic, whatever… would you actually CHOOSE to look like crap?
A “trainer” at my gym looks like a complete bum, he has no clue what he’s doing (which is besides the point of what he looks like), but always has to chime in on what I’m doing (usually trying to convince everyone else that what I’m doing is wrong). When he commented that I must have used steroids to get in shape for my contest, I pointed out that I only weighed 170 lbs for the show, and that if he really believed that, then it truly showed that he really knows nothing about training or nutrition.
S
[/quote]
It seems to be fun for most people to discuss what could POSSIBLY happen.
Yes, there MAY be some tiny little guy out there who knows so much about bodybuilding that he can help people get arms over 18"…however, in the real world this situation is so rare that it rarely needs to be discussed. The average skinny guy or completely out of shape guy in the gym does NOT know that much info nor do they have much experience.
Also, unless you actually SPOKE to a big guy, no one is going to know how hard he had to work to look the way he does. To assume he is clueless about how to help others simply because he is bigger than most is blatantly retarded. Little guys love to act like this is the case in the majority of instances as if succeeding means someone is clueless (sounds, smell and looks like jealousy).
I am currently about 140lbs heavier than when I started. If someone thinks that makes me clueless and that those making less progress somehow understand more, they must be looking to make themselves feel better for not doing much themselves.
It isn’t that only big guys can give advice…however, on a site like this where the average person has arms under 15-16", more should quit trying to give “advice” when they know their only experience is in reading shit and vomiting it back up.
I would listen to little 170lb Stu any day of the week.
But anyone with half a brain and at least some lifting experience should be able to weed the shit out from the good.
[quote]jahall wrote:
Why do people keep bringing up poliquin as being someone who isn’t in the huge category?
I mean he isn’t the BIGGEST guy, but i’d venture to guess he is bigger than a large majority of people posting on this forum, myself especially included.
http://images.netrition.com/images/poliquin.jpg [/quote]
Agreed. I doubt there are even ten people here on this site anywhere near his level development so I am not sure why he is considered “small”. He is far from it.
I think that what HH really wanted to say is:
‘Can you be huge and have no clue about training at the same time?’
or ‘Don’t you think that some huge guys are morons anyways?’
Well, I’ve never seen a guy that is big and at the same time weak, lazy, half-assed etc. On the contrary, they lift vein-popping weights I’d like to use one day. Why shouldn’t I respect hard work, dedication, consistency? To say they they don’t deserve their status is simply jelousy. The best advice comes from the biggest guys, like it or not. For me it’s ‘practice what you preach.’
My 2 cents on this:
Good advice is good advice, and it generally comes from people with both knowledge AND experience. When it comes to bodybuilding and lifting weights a pretty good indicator of experience is size.
I think a big part of the problem is the internet, where not only is everyone an expert anyone can become an expert. Couple kids read a bunch of articles and so now they know how it’s done. But there is a huge difference in knowing and doing. If I’ve read all the medical textbooks I could find would you trust me to perform surgery on you?
I think you have to walk the walk before you can talk the talk. And again, if you walk the walk there is a damn good chance you will be pretty big.
Did people mean to use Charles Staley instead of CP as an example.
Still, Staley is athlete guy, but even then, you can still pick up some useful tips from him.
[quote]bicepenvy wrote:
Somebody big can tell you how THEY did it, but that doesn’t mean they can help you.[/quote]
qft
I think the bottom line is that ANYBODY can GIVE advice. But BB mostly boils down to you being able to read yourself. Trial and error. Figure out what works and what doesn’t. If you’re given advice and you haven’t tried it and the person can explain how it works and it fits within the healthy general knowledge of the BBing world, give it a go. If it doesn’t work, then stop doing it and if it does work, then do it until it doesn’t work any more. Right? There is no concrete answer to the OPs question. I’d say that the closest anyone can come to a concrete answer is that there is a much better chance that the huge guy will know more than the non-huge guy.
What if the big guy goes out of his way to give the “wrong advices”
whatabout stuff like technique? a not-big guy can have perfect form on the squat, can he not teach it?
I remember a psych class where we read an excerpt from a chic who “wrote the book” on successful marriage. Only thing is, she was on her 8th marriage. I thought this was bullshit. On the other had, our own TC wrote in one of his columns that 99% of big dudes have no business giving advice on how to get big, since most of them would be have gotten that way from picking flowers (this isn’t quite verbatim, but it came from TC so don’t flame me for it).
To look at it yet another way, bill parcels would get his ass kicked on the football field, but he seems to do a good job teaching football.
Ideally then, we’d look to somebody who started out on the bottom, worked his way to the top, and then proved his mettle in teaching by helping a bunch of other bottom guys get to the top. Hmm, don’t think there are too many of them around.
In the end, I think that all we can do to get where we want to go is to look for somebody who started out where we did and ended up where we would want to, and do what they did. Even that doesn’t always work.
My head hurts.
[quote]gerby wrote:
I remember a psych class where we read an excerpt from a chic who “wrote the book” on successful marriage. Only thing is, she was on her 8th marriage. I thought this was bullshit. On the other had, our own TC wrote in one of his columns that 99% of big dudes have no business giving advice on how to get big, since most of them would be have gotten that way from picking flowers (this isn’t quite verbatim, but it came from TC so don’t flame me for it). To look at it yet another way, bill parcels would get his ass kicked on the football field, but he seems to do a good job teaching football.
Ideally then, we’d look to somebody who started out on the bottom, worked his way to the top, and then proved his mettle in teaching by helping a bunch of other bottom guys get to the top. Hmm, don’t think there are too many of them around.
In the end, I think that all we can do to get where we want to go is to look for somebody who started out where we did and ended up where we would want to, and do what they did. Even that doesn’t always work.
My head hurts.[/quote]
I couldn’t agree more with your opinion.
Half the time good advice falls on deaf ears to begin with. Even basic shit that should be known. I told some kid the other week that if he’s training back and biceps in his workout he needs to hit the back first. What does he do the next time he comes in the gym? Half-asses through his bicep workout before doing back. When I started I asked for advice and I asked the huge guys. Their advice worked. My exprience is that most average gym-goers won’t put it to good use though.
It’s a valid point that a huge guy can’t teach you everything though. I get asked alot about my traps and how to get big traps. I realized that I have no answer for this. I just lifted heavy weights and everything grew. A bigger guy might not always be able to give advice on how to bring up this muscle or this body part but they tend to know how to get overall size and strength. My observation.
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
What if the big guy goes out of his way to give the “wrong advices”[/quote]
LOL! Nicely done.
I believe that anyone can give advice, however most of the advice that I have received from individuals that don’t look like they train, I have chosen to discard. Additionally, all of this advice has been completely unsolicited. For some reason almost all of the unsolicited advice comes from little guys and it is often given to guys that actually look like they train.
I think it must be their way of self validation and building up their superiority in their own minds. I can only think that their thought process is something like “that big meathead is just dumb, I know way more than him. He just got big because of his genetics and/or juice.” They never stop to think that this guy might have actually applied years of reading, knowledge and experience to get to the point that they are at.
I NEVER give unsolicited advice in the gym, it is not my place to do so. However, I am always on the receiving of such advice. Here are two recent examples:
I was squatting 365 for reps, ATG and after I finished my sets, a small guy that I have never seen before (dressed in all spandex) that I am sure couldn’t perform a proper single body weight squat, asked me if I ever had anyone talk to me about squatting properly. He then proceeded to tell me how he “usetabee” a personal trainer with all of these certs and he proceeded to tell me that you shouldn’t squat below parallel because it was bad for your knees.
I responded by telling him that information was from a flawed study in the 70’s and there is no other evidence for that and to look at any olympic lifter and the depth that they go when performing the clean. Further, one of the only ways to target the vastus medialus is to go below parallel on the squat. He didn’t know how to respond and I walked away with him staring, slack-jawed.
I was performing weighted dips with a 90 lb dumbell and one of the 135 lb personal trainers comes up to me and tells me that if I really want to get something out of that exercise and make it harder and that I should pause at the bottom of my rep for 2-3 seconds. I asked him if it looked like I needed to make it harder (I’m quite sure that I wasn’t making it look easy) and if I wanted to make it harder I would have used a 100 lb dumbell.
So yes, anyone can give advice. But for me, I will probably only take advice from someone that can at least demonstrate a moderate amount of proficiency in the area that they are advising me.