soooo fascinated to hear more of your thoughts on this. Do you still have my email? Feel free to propound there, if you don’t want it all in the open.
I have plenty to say too, but I’m in it from an energy perspective.
Yes - you’re just needing something to keep it at roughly the right temp. My missus has just started making yoghurt and her ‘yoghurt maker’ is essentially a water bath with a temp set on it.
She runs a simpler method - warm milk to 36-38 deg C add in starter (usually some of the previous batch) along with a few spoonfuls of milk protein (to ensure a thicker yoghurt), ferment for 36hrs, then fridge it overnight then enjoy. She’s using a certain lacto strain that we as humans are ‘apparently’ lacking given antibiotics, etc of the modern world we live in. A bit ‘woo woo’ but I stir some of this (half a cup) into my high protein yoghurt for breakfast. Been on it a few weeks, yet to see/notice any difference but will continue to monitor.
Hope i’m not hijacking this thread @LoRez
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Yes, this.
Some people put the pot in the oven with the light on, or with a “proofing” mode if the oven does that. Others just get it to the right temperature and wrap with towels or blankets.
There’s a few different types of yogurts, but at a high level, both skyr and greek yogurt are "strained yogurts”. I think many people prefer using nut milk bags, or even coffee filters in a colander. I have a chinois for making clear broths, from back when I was more ambitious with my cooking. But it works well for this.
As for the initial heat and hold, it’s not strictly necessary, but the professionals use and recommend it for texture and consistent outcomes. I know it denatures the milk proteins, and the milk smells and tastes quite sweet at that point, but I’m no expert. I just do it because they say to.
As for starter, I use Icelandic Provisions. It’s very mild with almost no sourness, and they’re using the same heirloom cultures used in the Icelandic-made skyrs. Strains that have stabilized over potentially a few hundred years.
As far as variables. In theory a lower fermentation/incubation temp closer to 100 F is milder and closer to 120 F is sourer. I haven’t seen that personally, but it probably depends on the starter.
Likewise, a shorter incubation is mild (4-6 hours) versus a sourer longer incubation (8-12 or more).
But the overnight “cold crash” in the fridge does seem to matter.
The main thing that affects thickness is just how long you strain it. In theory it lasts longer the thicker it is, because there’s less sugar and less wetness. (the lactose sugars get strained out with the sour whey), but it’s never lasted long enough to test. I have strained for less than 12 hours and strained for over 24. It becomes more cream cheese-like in texture, but it can all be thinned back where you want it with some whey.
(The whey does go bad though, if not refrigerated, to my surprise. I thought it had enough acidity to kill anything else off)
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Academic discussion of the heat-and-hold:
Generally, milk used in yoghurt preparation is subjected to prolong heat treatment not only to destroy microbial growth but also to obtain improved body texture of the gel. Heat treatment is the most commonly used processing tools to enhance the denaturation of whey proteins and their interaction with casein micelles [4, 5, 11–13]. One of the interactions of interest is β-lactoglobulin-casein micelle complex formation. In practice, a different temperature-time combination such as 85°C for 30 min, 90-95°C for 5-10 min, or 115°C for 3 s is applied in milk used for yoghurt production which causes denaturation of whey proteins and promote the complex formation between casein and whey protein via covalent bonds and/or hydrophobic interactions (Figure 1) [5, 13, 14].
95% gibberish to me except the part I bolded.
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I do still have your email, and here is cool with me. I’ll just wait for the skyr talk to slow down 
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First step: milk in pot, temperature set to 185, and a high temperature alarm also set at 185. Hotplate set on Medium.
When the alarm goes off, which also notifies on my phone, turn off the alarm and set a timer for 25 minutes.
After 25 minutes timer, take the pot off the heat, set the temperature to 103, turn the burner to Warm, and set the low temperature alarm to 115.
When that alarm goes off, turn that off. It’s at a good temp to add the starter. Anything between 100-120 is fine. Put some of the warm milk in a bowl, and whisk in a couple tablespoons of new or old skyr. Then whisk that into the pot.
Put the lid back on, put the pot back on the burner and just leave it alone all day. The temperature will fluctuate as it cools, warms, etc. But it all stays in the 102-115 range.
This is where I’m at now, so I’ll post an update once it’s actually set.
(That hotplate has seen better days. It’s spent most of a decade on a balcony, but works perfectly fine still.)
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After incubating for 7 hours or so, the skyr has gelled and yellow liquid whey is on the surface and edges. If you tilt it, it separates from the side of the pot.
The temperature stayed between 102 and 111.
Then stick it in the fridge overnight. In the morning, it has thickened up even further.
Then cut squares into it so there’s more surface area for the whey to seep out. You don’t want to stir it though because stirring can damage the gel.
And then to strain.
I do it in a cooler with a few ice packs. A large pot to catch the liquid whey and a chinois for the straining. It’s just an extra-fine mesh strainer.
And now just let that sit all day.
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Ok some actual training.
Yesterday, Friday, I had limited time.
SGHPs: 105 x 5, 5
then a long interruption
SGHPs: 105 x 3, and elbow felt bad from that
So, no more on Friday.
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Today, Saturday morning:
SGHPs: 105 x 3, 4, 3 - still getting higher, with a slowed descent
Dips: 1 chain x 10
Chins: 1 chain x 2.8 - not quite 3
Jeffersons: 115 x 8R, 8L
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Down from Wed but that was a bit of a fluke. So still on the same upward trends, not a regression.
Jeffersons starting to get the right groove for the right leg forward. Forward = closer to the plates, which is the direction my torso is also facing.
SGHPs are to fill in the calf, lateral delt, upper back gaps. And for some speed/power. Since that’s something I never trained.
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Saturday second session:
Dips: 1 chain x 8
Chins: 1 chain x 2.5
Jeffersons: 115 x 8R, 8L
Negative dip: 7 sec
Negative chin: 5-5-5
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Jeffersons are my least favorite. Hips and knees aren’t liking them immediately after. 48 hours later they’re fine though.
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What do you do with this after the skyr?
I mix about a half cup in when blending smoothies.
I’ve also watered it down and used it as fertilizer for rhododendron, camellia and blueberry plants.
I haven’t tried it yet but I know it can be used to tenderize meat. Might try that this week.
Salami uses lactofermentation so I think it’s the same stuff too.
But so far, I just use the fresh stuff for smoothies and the old stuff in the garden.
Edit: acid whey is also called mysa in Icelandic so if you’re looking up recipes there’s another term to use
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I haven’t read much past the abstract but apparently someone wrote their whole Masters thesis on acid whey for tenderizing beef eye of round:
https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=7758&context=etd
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That’s pretty interesting. I wasn’t sure exactly what you could use acid whey for
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We’ve just been consuming the lot. No straining. Great snaps and process, appreciate the share.
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That’s cool. Yeah, I think the real benefits of doing it homemade is just that there’s so much more healthy bacteria than the store bought stuff.
In the Viking case, they actually had a need for the acid whey/mysa they strained off. It was a preservative and tenderizer, since they didn’t have access to salt (which is how basically the rest of the world preserved things.) I guess they kept root vegetables and sheeps heads and organ meat in barrels of mysa. Not my thing.
Not really sure what the story is with Greek yogurt. Maybe it actually wasn’t strained, but just evaporated away out of the terracotta yogurt pots?
From a nutrition standpoint though, straining off the “acid whey”, which is mostly just acid and lactose sugar (not much whey) is a good way to remove the sugars from the yogurt but still keep the protein and fat. The casein and whey are bonded together in the yogurt gel, so the liquid isn’t super valuable on its own.
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My current training is a bit strange. It takes a lot out of me.
By almost every measure, not just compared to others, but compared to my own training, it’s very low volume, low load, etc. Must be the bad leverage, extended ROM and “to failure”, I guess.
Tendons and ligaments feel it after every session, too. Bit of burning at hips and knees.
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Monday first session:
SGHPs: 105 x 4, 5, 3 – still higher; I want every rep to be above the nipple line if not the clavicle line
Dips: 1 chain x 12
Chins: 1 chain x 2.9
Jeffersons: 115 x 9R, 9L
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Monday second session:
Dips: 1 chain x 12
Chins: 1 chain x 3
Jeffersons: 115 x 3R… Had enough
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Finally.
Dips going up in weight next time. And exceeded chins. Fought for the end of that rep.
So some progress.
Jeffersons hit hard enough earlier and just didn’t want to after rep 3.
Also right elbow feeling bad going into session 2. I tried to get a lot of movement in there but still clicky even just extending it unweighted. Figured 2 PRs was enough to call it a day.
Come back fresher on Wed that way anyway.
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Ok so I really do feel beat up. Not doms, but rather “hit by a bus”.
Kind of fascinating.
Nutrition and recovery and sleep is pretty on point. (I’ve been working with a sleep medicine doc and a psychiatric np, so it’s a legit statement.)
Yet I feel like this, from such little work. The bulgarian-ish daily max stuff and deadlift everyday and even 20 rep squat stuff wasn’t even like this.
People around me are getting sick, so that’s an X factor. I don’t think that’s it, but maybe.
The change to “0 RIR” training is the only actual explanation I’ve got.
I’m going to give it at least another month before making changes, assuming joint pain stays manageable. Some stuff at both shoulders, right elbow, and top of my sternum right now.
If someone told me they felt like how I do from what little I’m doing, I’m not even sure I’d believe them…
Related, I thought this was a pretty good thread. Same cast of characters but everyone has matured a lot. And interesting to see some of the “new” theory being discussed.
—
All that said, I am actually happy with what’s happening in the mirror, and the mirror with camera. It seems to be working in that sense.
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The change to “0 RIR” training is the only actual explanation I’ve got.
I was literally about to ask “are you training ‘on the nerve’ until I got to this part”
Yeah: this is 100% what you’re running into. We used to call that “CNS burnout” until the sciency folks got mad at us and said that’s not a thing, but we all collectively KNEW what we meant when we said it. You effectively give yourself the flu when you train too close to the sun too often.
And keep in mind: you’ve had some downtime. Your recovery capability has most likely diminished.
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Yeah that’s part of what’s throwing me off. I would also have expected to take a ding in performance, or sleep to get worse, but that hasn’t happened. And it’s only been a bit over a month of training, which seems too short for it to actually be anything real.
This is very likely.
That’s why I’ll give it at least another month. Right now it could be recovery capacity and it could be illness. If I’m still feeling beat up but otherwise functioning well, then I’ll just have to decide whether that’s a cost i’m willing to pay.
If not, the obvious solution is just not going to failure and adding some more volume.
Right now I’m testing out of the RIR/effective reps/minimum effective volume theories: 6 sets to failure a week with a couple negatives, to hit like 85-90% of the hypertrophy in 10% of the time. Why does nobody train that way then? Maybe because it makes you feel like this…
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It worked!
Marinated 2 pounds of bone in pork chops in that acid whey for about 4 hours, seared it and finished in the oven. Turned out so well that both kids (5 and 7) ate almost all of it before we got to it. Not even a single photo.
The flavor, and how well it browned, were significantly improved.
So definitely worth a try if you do end up making skyr or greek yogurt.
Now to experiment with some other meats.
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On a skyr note, there was a new Icelandic Provisions flavor at the store: Salted Caramel and Banana. That should not have worked, but I was very wrong. “Dessert skyr”, like their key lime flavor.
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So another thought.
Maybe “feel like I was hit by a bus” is how I should feel? If I was actually hit by a bus – but … softly … so I could still walk away – that’s a lot of muscle and connective tissue damage to heal from. Even if “recovery” is on point, it’s just going to suck for a bit as everything heals and adapts.
So… maybe… I feel like that because I’m actually causing that much damage?
Also, I bet if I was hit by a bus a few times a week, it wouldn’t be quite as bad after the first couple months…
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Wednesday morning session:
SGHPs: 105 x 5, 5, 5 – height PR; nearly all reps at nipple or higher
Dips: 1 chain + 5 x 7 – weight and rep PR
Chins: 1 chain x 3.5 – rep PR
Jeffersons: 115 x NA – will resume after spring break
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Notes:
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PRs in every lift. More power in SGHPs and more weight and reps with the others.
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well, performance still keeps going up, so
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I weighed my chains the way they’re set up. For the dips, it adds 8 pounds at the top. For the chins, it adds 10. Both are fully unloaded at the bottom.
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I’m going on vacation for spring break starting tomorrow, and will be in and out of a plane and rental car and hiking. Skipped the Jeffersons; I don’t want to risk any knee or groin aggravation.
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