How are you liking sets of 4 compared to 5? From the lifters I talk to in the gyms i’ve been to, it seems like 4 rep sets are pretty uncommon for some reason
It’s only been a couple days at this point. Today it felt like I could do sets of 7+, so it was weird to stop at only 4. I’ve been doing 5s exclusively for a long time.
It’s kind of a weird no-mans land. I’ve done singles, doubles, triples. And 5s.
I’ve only seen 4s in Sheiko’s stuff.
I’m playing with this reverse-engineered Prilepin/INOL idea, so it looks like this right now:
61-66% - sets of 6
67-72% - sets of 5
73-78% - sets of 4
79-84% - sets of 3
85-90% - doubles
90+ - singles
We’ll see how it works out.
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Yesterday:
- some mace pendulums behind the back and 360s. I think this is going to be rough on my shoulders and upper back for a bit. Sore today, some tendon pain stuff too. But that could be from the presses too, or insufficient recovery carbs. Or, you know, ramming my head into the side of a pool.
- gripper, 7 reps with [5,1]
- general R&R and yardwork as we go through this reorg and wait for news
W11D2 - Medium Volume
Mace 360s: 2.5# x 2 x 10
SuperGripper: [5,1] x 8 (each hand)
Press (81%): 100# x 7 x 3
17" Axle Rack Pulls (75%): 340# x 4 x 5
(tri-delt pairs supersetted)
High Cable OH Extensions: 22.5# x 3 x 5 (right then left)
HB Wide-grip Upright Rows: 85# x 3 x 5
Pushdowns: 22.5# x 3 x 5 (right then left)
HB Wide-grip Upright Rows: 85# x 3 x 5
Workout notes:
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So. Many. Sets.
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At least added back in the arm/shoulder accessories. Still not mentally there yet for the others.
Life notes:
- Finally got some work clarity. I’ll be moving to a different [established] team with new projects. Not sure it’s the best fit, but I’ll make it work. Regardless, having some answers is so much better than where I’ve been for the last several months.
Diet notes:
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Not a lot of scale movement; it’s been pretty nonlinear with some large eating on the weekend and then fasting during most of the week.
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MD isn’t really the protein for me. I’m not sure if it’s the thickness, or the “sweetness”, or something else. It also still irritates my throat a bit. It may be the sucralose; it’s a common thread among several things.
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I’ll keep using Surge around workouts; that stuff is amazing. The flameout and curcumin have made my joints feel a lot better too.
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Recently my main supplemental protein has been PeptoPro + leucine + water flavoring. Goes down easily for me. But it is super expensive. It also doesn’t have the other magical things that MD has to help with hunger suppression (casein, fiber)… so I’ve just had a higher baseline level of hunger.
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Oh, yeah, progress. I continue to see more definition in more places on an almost daily basis. I still feel like there’s a long ways to go with the low back and navel fat, but I imagine I’ll get there if I just keep going forward with this.
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I’m also becoming more convinced I’ve actually built muscle while dieting, because I’m finally getting enough protein.
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Excessive 10 course meal for the pre-Mother’s Day date night.
And the devil’s food chocolate ganache cake the kids and I made.
While she stayed at a nice hotel.
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I’ll keep beating the drum on this, but I much prefer eating Metabolic Drive vs drinking. Mixing it with just a little bit of hot water and eating it with a spoon is awesome. I throw in unflavored gelatin at night to make it really thick and dessert like.
But congrats on the continued muscle building!
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I guess some progress photos. Mostly (or completely) glycogen depleted, somewhat flattering lighting, cold.
Today was my first attempt at actual weightloss cardio. Some incline hill walking, up and down and up and down for about a mile. Found the steepest part of the nearby hill. I think it basically averages out to a 6.5 degree incline walk.
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I think I’ll try this, at least a time or two. I’ve got some mental resistance to that idea – I’m not even sure why – but I’ll get past it.
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Some initial reflections on the progress photos:
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I’m still quite skinny, and I’m not happy with that.
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I certainly don’t look untrained, but I’m also far from looking like a “lifter”. I need far more muscle. Currently “skinny but athletic”.
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Compared to last year, I’ve made significant progress. I weighed myself at 138 in May sometime last year, and that’s what triggered me to come back to lifting and eating [for size]. I’ll share some comparison photos in a couple weeks. It’ll be a year at the end of May.
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I’m also not yet as lean as I’d like to be.
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I’m at a point where I have a much better understanding of my own fat distribution.
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There are “pockets” of fat around my navel, and on both sides of my low back. This is the fat that I don’t really like, especially the navel. This is what spills over the top of my pants (not now, but before).
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The rest of my fat seems to manifest as “thick skin”. It seems pretty uniformly thick across my torso, front and back. This doesn’t actually bother me much. Though I do remember this skin being much thinner when I was younger.
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My current criteria for “done” is when the navel area is the same as the “thick skin” area. I may go a bit longer to do the same with the low back. And I may go a bit longer just to see if I can make a dent on “thinning the skin”. That’s literally just a matter of curiosity with no emotional stake.
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For what it’s worth, this has taken a bit of work to diet. Even 6 months ago, I had to force myself to not lose weight. Now it requires effort to lose it. I think this is a really good change.
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Little bit of cinnamon mixed in can also transition from sweet to spice.
And those are some stellar nutritional observations, especially noting you’ve reversed the polarity on gaining vs losing.
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All right, training.
1.2 mile, 23 minute fasted hill walk. I just stuck to the steepest part of the hill and went up and down it for a mile; 8 laps. 33 floors, no part was flat.
I clocked my heartrate at 154 at the top on the last lap. I think before, when I did it on a treadmill, I was targeting 120-130. I’m sure there was a reason, so it makes me wonder if I’m a bit high for fat-loss purposes. (Plenty of other benefits regardless.)
But now I want to figure out where I got that 120 BPM number from.
Found it: The Ultimate Cardio Solution: Disclosed
W11D3 - Higher Stress - Deadlift
Mace 360s: 2.5# x 2 x 10 - with lots of pendulums to start
17" Axle Rack Pulls (78%): 355# x 3 x 5
Press (85%): 105# x 6 x 3
17" Axle Rack Pulls: 355# x 3 x 5
SuperGripper: [5,1] x 10 (each hand)
Roman Column: 4x sit-to-backbend-to-sit
H2H KB Swings: 85# x 38 (19 each hand)
Upper-back Meadows Rows: 55# x 10 (each side)
(tri-delt pairs supersetted)
High Cable OH Extensions: 22.5# x 3 x 6 (right then left)
HB Wide-grip Upright Rows: 85# x 3 x 6
Pushdowns: 22.5# x 3 x 6 (right then left)
HB Wide-grip Upright Rows: 85# x 3 x 6
Notes:
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long session again. Each set was short though.
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I took a couple videos of my press sets and ran them through that WL Analysis app. Turns out my bar path has gotten a lot worse. I could probably use some paused and partial reps like before. No plans, just thoughts.
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I’m not happy with the Roman column backbend so I’m going to take this slower for now.
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I haven’t actually done the tri/delt stuff but sets of 6 is the plan. I’ll update if it doesn’t play out that way.
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I’m trying to figure out how to assess whether to progress the press. I’ll do a separate post.
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(Long post ahead. I didn’t think it would be, but eh. At least I tried to make it skimmable.)
Diet update.
Well, first, new restaurant. New-to-me restaurant. There’s a Bosnian restaurant that has basically meat, meat, and more meat. Which of the 6 or 7 kinds of grilled meat would you like?
We had 5 of them. They were all good, a few were better.
On Saturday I did a mostly-flat walk for ~20 minutes and my heartrate barely got above 90. So, not hitting that 120-130.
On both days I did a bunch of yardwork. I finally cleared out some areas that didn’t get mowed for over a year, so plenty of work, plenty of LISS.
We’re in the last week (or two) of the t-ransformation, and I’m nearly done leaning out where I want. So I’m upping the ante and getting stricter.
- daily fasted cardio (protein though)
- proper Rapid Fat Loss diet / old-school V-diet
The cardio is simple. Walked over to the hill and up it this morning while listening to a work presentation.
The diet is going to get harder.
I’m now in the Lyle’s “category 1”, under 12%, which has different rules.
My evening “healthy solid meal” is dropping carbs and most fats. No post-workout carbs with lunch. Possibly no carbs for 2 weeks (except training window).
My day will look like:
- wake up and start fast-digesting peptopro shake + caffeine
- get kids to school
- take a walk
- whey/casein shake + fish oil
… again and again …
repeat until evening - solid meal of vegetables + lean meat (or, a leaner salmon like sockeye) + fish oil
- bedtime shake + fish oil
Training gets Surge starting 15m before and during. Protein shake after.
The research paper shared the other day suggests you can get benefits from even more protein post-workout than previously thought, so I may cram a couple shakes here.
Many other diet things:
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Though PeptoPro is expensive, it seems you only need 1/3 to 1/2 for the same effects, so the cost isn’t really that bad per dose.
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@T3hPwnisher I tried MD chocolate as a pudding, and it was a no go. It’s still too sweet for me, but more significant is I still had that throat allergy/itchiness
. Interesting experiment though. -
New protein powders came in. It feels a bit like betrayal, and I feel bad about it, but I haven’t been able to make either MD flavor work.
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I did try mixing a gelatin supplement with one of the new proteins in a shake, and that was a really tasty idea. I’d already been working through a tub of the collagen TC recommended here. Adds good texture and makes the flavor richer.
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With the new proteins, I deliberately ordered the Stevia flavoring rather than sucralose. I had trouble with MD (which uses sucralose) but not Surge (which uses Stevia). With the new flavors, I don’t get the scratching, so it continues to reinforce the theory that my esophagus doesn’t like sucralose for some reason.
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I’d been trying out sugar-free energy drinks for the past couple weeks, after a lifetime of sugary ones. The erythritol sweetened ones agree with me, but the sucralose ones not so much. It’s super weird. Sucralose is tolerable, but it’s like “this is a bit uncomfortable vs this is not uncomfortable at all”.
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I ran out of ephedrine a couple weeks ago, so stopped doing EC stack. Just caffeine. Haven’t restocked.
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I got officially diagnosed with adult ADHD last week, so I’m trialing Vyvanse. Titrating on and no change yet. But I’m not going to mess with ephedrine until I know how this all plays out. I even backed my caffeine off.
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I got a blood pressure monitor, since they want me monitoring it with the Vyvanse. I bought the Omron Silver, and it syncs to my phone with Bluetooth, so that’s cool. BP and heartrate are still quite healthy: 106/66 at 54 bpm. Nice product, would recommend. $40 on Amazon.
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Also got a set of skinfold calipers. It’s more objective data point, and the sample of readings I did yesterday were all consistent.
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(Unlike photos or the mirror, where lighting, posing, flexing, food, hydration can change everything).
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The 3 site skinfold is 24mm which is supposedly 9%. Seems low. I don’t trust that number. But knowing that “this is what 24mm on me looks like” is useful. Precision, not accuracy.
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I found a good set of reference photos of bodyfat across many people who carry it somewhat differently. I’d guess I’m in that 10-11% rage.
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Either way, that puts me at 3-4 pounds of fat to lose to get into the 7-9% visual range. Seems pretty doable in the next week or so.
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Also glad the end is now in sight. Ready to go back to actually getting bigger/stronger.
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W12D1 - Lower Stress
Mace 360s: 2.5# x 2 x 10 - with lots of pendulums to start
Press (89%): 110# x 2, 2, 5, 2 (matched 5RM)
17" Axle Rack Pulls (81%): 370# x 3 x 5
SuperGripper: [5,2] x 7 (each hand)
Roman Column: 5x sit-to-backbend-to-sit
H2H KB Swings: 85# x 40 (20 each hand)
Upper-back Meadows Rows: 55# x 10 (each side)
(tri-delt pairs supersetted)
High Cable OH Extensions: 22.5# x 3 x 7 (right then left)
HB Wide-grip Upright Rows: 85# x 3 x 7
Pushdowns: 22.5# x 3 x 6 (right then left)
HB Wide-grip Upright Rows: 85# x 3 x 6
Notes:
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I had some bad forearm pain last week, and elbow pain that woke me up this weekend. The bad elbow. Could be extensions, pushdowns, rows, mace or something else. Just attempting to narrow it down.
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I did an AMRAP set on my 3rd press set. My working rule: “if I can get more than 5 reps with my 89%, increase the estimated max”. This is one of the options of how to progress this.
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But, I also took video. I think this may be a more proper application of velocity-based training. If it’s fast enough in the 88-90% range, increase the weight. Seems better than doing a random set of 5+ on a day of doubles.
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In that dumpster-fire of a thread, when the guy was talking about how he was better at deadlifting because of his wingspan, I actually measured mine for the first time. I have a 6’4" wingspan at 5’11". No wonder I struggle with pressing a bit. My arms are 7% longer than my height.
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Could be extensions, pushdowns, rows, mace or something else. Just attempting to narrow it down.
I bet its the OH (Im assuming Overhead) Extensions, I don’t know much about Maces, but maybe its coming from the gripper & rowing. You could try rotate your accessories for a week or two, see if that gets rid of it
when the guy was talking about how he was better at deadlifting because of his wingspan, I actually measured mine for the first time. I have a 6’4" wingspan at 5’11". No wonder I struggle with pressing a bit. My arms are 7% longer than my height.
This probably won’t apply to Shoulder Pressing, but honestly, it might just work depending on if its at a slight incline or not. I thought I should put this in here because reading this awhile ago changed my entire outlook on the bench, arm length and got me thinking, you might find it interesting. I’ve got long arms for my height too.
Thanks.
Yeah the elbow thing isn’t a typical lifting related thing. I had a major infection in my elbow as a baby, and it ate up all the cartilage in there. They did a surgery to get rid of the infection, but caused some damage.
About a decade ago when I was lifting seriously, I could never curl or bench without pain. With curling, if I fully extend my arm, I can’t bend it back. With benching, it would give out randomly. It’s one of the main reasons why I gravitated toward overhead pressing only.
Around the same time I started having these episodes where I’d wake up in the middle of the night and my elbow was locked in place. I’d have to use the other arm to make it move again. Annoying and painful.
So, went to an ortho, and surgery and he cleared a bunch of gunk out of it. There was a bunch of spongy stuff from that old infection. Unfortunately after the procedure, he said there’s no cartilage left.
Then during the healing process, I started getting random forearm pain. I’d randomly lose the ability to pinch grip, and I had trouble turning the steering wheel. Stretching and massage doesn’t help, but acupuncture can get things back under control when that happens. I do that to myself.
Anyway, very long story short, it’s a fairly different reason than the normal “elbows hurt from lifting”.
The good news is it feels better today than yesterday. I actually think it might be those one-arm rows, since I’ve been extending my arm all the way at the bottom. Same problem with my curling. Maybe I can cut off the bottom range of motion to stop hurting my elbows, but still work the upper back well enough with it. Hm.
As for the grip width, thanks for that quote. I’ll play with it.
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Ah I see, sorry for the assumptions. Sounds like it’s gotten better at least, and you’ve been able to work around it.
Maybe I can cut off the bottom range of motion to stop hurting my elbows, but still work the upper back well enough with it
It’s worth a shot
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No worries.
What are your preferred bang-for-the-buck tricep exercises? Any others you’ve seen particularly bad for elbows?
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What are your preferred bang-for-the-buck tricep exercises?
Writing this in between sets and on my phone so it’ll probably come out way more disorganized than I think lol. So, I only care about strength, with size being my secondary priority. My opinion on this question is going to be solely rooted in what I think will make me stronger.
I’m going to go with something that sounds obvious, but the Close Grip Bench. It shifts the load off my shoulders a bit which allows me to get away with a little more direct shoulder work, I’m more of the lot that believes that strong and healthy shoulders are important for a good bench. I still blast my Pecs, and the added benefit is that it’s making The Triceps one of my primary movers. I’m in a situation that I prefer a closer grip, so it’s a bit more unique, but I would think the same logic still applies to most who usually bench a bit wider.
That’s why I also look at it as a don’t think twice type of deal. I don’t have to worry about that many training variables. If I got stronger on it, then I know I literally just got stronger. It’s a lot more consistent in progress, technique and reps. I know I’m hitting the correct target areas. I’m not playing a cat and mouse game on my accessories that I feel a lot of people do (including me), and wondering why my accessory work hasn’t really helped me for the last 4 weeks.
Second would be the Close Grip Seated OHP. I’m still fairly new to the movement, about 5-6 weeks in but enough for me to make a fair assessment of it. It is a different type of pressing movement. It felt very akward and foreign at first but I got comfortable pretty fast with the grip change. It’s teaching me to drive through using my shoulders and triceps at midpoint into the lockout, which is my sticking point. It’s similar enough of a movement for me to consider it specific and that makes it valuable for me. Between these two, I’ve seen pretty significant Long and Medial Head growth, and I’m at a higher body fat %.
For me, Tricep Accessories on the cables, machines etc. still have its place and importance for me. I don’t think there’s any accessory that’s better than another. It’s just thinking about what I want out of it. Ed Coan was asked why he did the Powerbuilding approach and said in a podcast (I can share, if you want) that he focused on getting everything strong as hell and did not want a weakness anywhere, and that’s why he rotated his compound movements and focused on bringing everything up. I think mirroring the greats before us is the best way to learn, personally.
Any others you’ve seen particularly bad for elbows?
Personally, I’ve found this is more of a frequency/repetition issue for me. If I don’t rotate my accessories every few weeks I start running into issues. Though, I will say that the
French Press, Skullcrushers of any kind, and any overhead type extension really fucks me up if I start going ballistic on it. So I’ll usually only run those in 1-2 week rotations.
Edit @LoRez Okay, I edited quite a bit of my reply once I got home, it was all very scattered and I had forgotten some important things.
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Thanks for throwing in this note. I’d read the original version and might not have reread it otherwise.
All of that is really helpful, thank you. And I’ve never even heard of doing close grip with OHP. I’ve seen snatch grip stuff, but never though of doing it close.
Some diet stuff in this post, then training next post.
Good news. Last night I was reviewing when I dieted in 2014, and I am both stronger and bigger than then, at the same leanness. (I had already been lifting for a couple years, and then stopped 2015/2016 until 2023.)
That actually surprised me a bit, because I still feel smaller and weaker compared to my past self.
Weight is going back down, now that I’m being super strict again. Caliper measurements are down too. Abs 11, chest 5, legs 5, so 21 total. (It was 24 this past weekend.)
The lighting hit kind of funny last night, and I took this photo. Kind of crazy how lighting affects things. (Carb depleted, no pump.)
I also was looking through my phone album where I track progress. In that album I keep a couple “ideal physique” photos too.
The lifters back then were so lean. They weren’t really doing bulk/cut cycles or even bodybuilding. Just people lifting to be stronger. No leangains stuff, but they actually just stayed lean… and gained.
I’m not that lean yet.
But it has me thinking, are we justifying even the “bulk to 15%” because we’ve culturally gotten used to people carrying so much fat? These guys are hardly 10% and single arm pressing their bodyweight.
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W12D2 - Medium Stress
Weighted Snow Angels on Foam Roller: 2.5#
Mace Holds and Pendulums: 10#
Press (93%): 115# x 6 x 1
17" Axle Rack Pulls (85%): 385# x 4 x 5
SuperGripper: [5,2] x 9ish. Left hand was tired.
Roman Column: 4x sit-to-backbend-to-sit
H2H KB Swings: 90# x 20 (10 each hand) ← these went up
Upper-back Meadows Rows: 55# x 7 (each side)
(tri-delt pairs supersetted)
High Cable OH Extensions: 22.5# x 3 x 8 (right then left)
HB Wide-grip Upright Rows: 85# x 3 x 8
Notes:
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In my videos I saw my kyphosis is still bad. Working on that with the “snow angels” and mace stuff.
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I was going to avoid going over 90%, but it was too much work to mess with the spreadsheet so I just left it. The prescription was 8 x 1. Made 6 of them, failed the 7th halfway up. Resetting next time.
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Press is getting far from my face and failing at “the sticking point”. Need to do some paused/partial work soon. Maybe this upcoming cycle, maybe the following one.
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With the extra thoracic work in the warmup, I did not have shoulder or elbow pain while pressing. This is a pretty huge win.
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I stacked mats to cut off the bottom ROM on those meadows rows. Hopefully will help with elbow pain tonight/tomorrow. Somehow it made it harder, but it’s probably because it’s harder to use body english.
More diet stuff:
- New shakes are amazing in that I can get them down and they don’t irritate my throat. But, I’m hungrier on them. I added a bit of psyllium today to see if it helps with the hunger, and so far so good. I also ordered some inulin to try. Supposedly has the same effect on hunger, but tastes better.
Nerd stuff:
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I have 3 data points for velocity measures now. That means I now have a rough formula to map velocity → % 1RM. Going to get a few more measurements after the reset. I’ll use this to judge weight increases.
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My programming has a nice mathematical elegance to it now. There’s only two things to tweak: the intensity % range, and the desired average INOL. The rest is all automatic: weight progression both in-cycle and between-cycles, daily load variation, “optimal” sets x reps, when to reset.
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But will it work? Probably not on a deficit…
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