All I have to say is: Wow.
As a general rule though, I’d take my chances with most natural foods that are palatable. As a general rule, I wouldn’t do this processed foods.
BTW, Fallon and Enig also speak out against protein powders because they’ve been heated at high temperatures. I’m not sure I agree with them on that point because they obviously work. Could there be negative health side effects though?
-Zulu
I still don’t get why such a highly processed oil like Canola would be “good.” Even relatively stable oils like olive and peanut oil are supposed to only be used for light cooking to avoid rancidity. The fact that they have to deodorize it should draw a black flag.
Neil, you still don’t understand what rancidity is.
Rancidity is a natural reaction between unsaturated fatty acids, light, oxygen and heat. Rancidity will occur in all those fats that contain PUFA’s including salmon oil and flax seed oil.
ALL of these products must be processed to some degree to protect us from consuming rancid products. Processing can include anything done to a product through a man-made process such as adding vitamin E, and extruding the oil out of a product by using a solvent. How do you think they get the oil out of flax and fish by the way? They have to PROCESS it to make it usable.
In fact here is an abstract from a journal article dealing with this topic:
Autooxidation of polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFAs) of edible oils results in the formation of fatty acid hydroperoxides that can undergo further chemical transformations to yield a variety of re-arranged and chain-cleavage products. Since the oxidation products of PUFAs have been reported to have cytotoxic and mutagenic effects, the consumption of rancid oils and fats represents a possible health hazard for the population.
Autooxidation here refers to the natural process of rancidity that occurs in any oil that contains PUFA.
Also, PUFAs are not the only unsaturated fatty acids susceptible to rancidity. Even olive oil and other high MUFA oils like peanut, sunflower and safflower oils have the potential to become rancid if they aren’t keep out of direct light, kept cool, and don’t have any antioxidant added to them.
Maybe Ray Peat is right then and we should just live off eggs, coconut and butter.
-Zulu
My head is going to explode
Now Zulu,
To answer your question:
2.) Why use Canola? I see no benefit to consuming something which contains transfat (perhaps less than suspected, but nonetheless), is highly processed or easily go rancid. The n-3 content isn’t necessary and the mono fats can be gotten from nuts or olive oil!
I never said to use canola in the first place. I just was stating that it was not a crap oil, as was pointed out by NeilG in the first few posts. Yes, I know that olive oil, nuts, and avocados are better sources of mono fatty acids, and personally, I only use canola oil as a spray for cooking my eggs with. But like I said, It’s not crap.
The main point of thread was to ask if mayo was bad or not. NeilG came back and said that it was crap because it contained these oils. Well, that’s not true. Mayo CAN be crap because it contains other things that are shitty. These things mostly include hydrogenated oils and sugar. The low fat varieties of mayo are sometimes even worse due to all the extra sugars and fillers that need to be added to make it taste like the full fat original.
Instead of oil, i prefer rubbing chocolate all over cass and licking it off. It works much better. Isnt that what we were talking about.
Does anyone else want to rub something all over my body and lick it off?
Cass, baby,
I love you for your MIND.
I’m sorry, but it’s totally platonic. I just can’t go around licking things off of every girl that asks me to lick things off of them–that’s a recipe for obesity. And then they would stop asking me to lick things off of them.
So you see, I have to be very careful about what I lick off of whom.
Plus, you live in Canada. Which is like, really far away.
Otherwise, yeah!
Dan
I’d like to rub something all over your body…unfortunately its still attached to me so licking it off would be a little tough
Bollocks system ate my post
Cas:
choclolate fetishs aside
I never mentioned CLA, I was talking about hte trans fat Vaccenic acid, which can be formed from either linoleic or alpha linolenic. (ie also from CLA which is an intermediate of the linoleic->CLA->Vaccenic acid run.
C18:1 t9, C18:1 t10 and C18:1 t11 are all very common fatty acids in ruminant fat (5-10% total fatty acids). These fats are IDENTICAL to any fat formed from commercial processing, to which i like this quote from an old study on the subject
"Therefore, claims that trans fatty acid isomers are “synthetic”, “nonphysiological” or “unnatural” are unjustified if these words are used to imply “not produced by the living organism”.
Just wanted to say thanks to Cas and Zulu for raising the forum IQ. Thanks Zulu for being willing to challenge an established member of the T-community and pushing her to produce some great work. Cas, thanks for doing everything you just did. I wish I had the background to understand everything that was stated, but I learned a lot regardless.
I think this post represents the very best t-mag has to offer. Thanks for the education.
Man, if my research had absolutely anything to do with this type of stuff, I would be all over having a polite debate. Dammit. I guess that’s what I get for studying cancer and cell death instead.
Okay, this thread isn’t over just yet. (I want more proposals for oil rubs, and chocolate body dipping)
Seriously,
Cycomike and all:
I looked into Vaccinic acid and found quite a few papers dealing with the subject.
Yes, it is a trans fatty acid, but it’s actually a precursor to CLA, not the other way around as you stated. Here is a brief excerpt from a paper regarding this subject:
Bioconversion of vaccenic acid to conjugated linoleic acid in humans
Turpeinen AM, Mutanen M, Aro A, Salminen I, Basu S, Palmquist DL, Griinari JM
AMERICAN JOURNAL OF CLINICAL NUTRITION
76 (3): 504-510 SEP 2002
[quote] Background:Vaccenic acid (11-trans octadecenoic acid; VA), a major trans fatty acid in the fat of ruminants, is produced in the rumen and converted in tissues to rumenic acid (9-cis, 11 trans octadecenoic acid; RA), an isomer of conjugated linoleic acid, by delta 9-desaturase. There are indications that this conversion also occurs in humans.
Conclusions: The results quantify the desaturation of VA to RA in humans. Conversion is likely to contribute significantly to the amount of RA available to the body, and dietary intakes of VA should thus be taken into account when predicting RA status.[/quote]
What this translates to is: Vaccinic acid is converted to an isomer of CLA known as RA. (An isomer is just another version of a compound). This paper found that this conversion occurs in the guts of cows (ruminants) and in the stomachs of humans via the delta 9 desaturase enzyme.
In conclusion, this fatty acid (VA) can be used to predict the TOTAL amount of CLA that humans receive in their diets. This is because it’s converted in the body to CLA and is used in the same pathways.
Oh, and to answer Erica’s question:
No, I never sleep… I also never seem to get off this computer other than to go to the gym (I have NO life).
Cassanova, I want to hear your thoughts on saturated fats (butter, coconut oil, whole milk, eggs)! I can agree to Canola oil being an OK oil for which there are better alternatives.
And since we were talking about the fragility of poly fats… do you still recommend taking flax oil or flax meal?
-Zulu
But Cass, my cod liver oil doesn’t need to be deodorized like Conalo oil. The CLO is probably racid to some degree, but it doesn’t need deodorized. I’m sorry…but something that needs deodorized is not going in my mouth.
Also, this is all the more reason to use cod liver oil instead of normal fish oil, since it has antioxidants that protect the oil
My CLO just smells like fish
I like to dowse [sp?] Cass in my own specail oils if you know what I mean.
It’s a special home brew I make.
Still the king of all pervs
JA
Neil, you’re still a fucking dumbass. Cass owned you up, down, left, and right, but all you can come back with is, “Natural is GOOD! Cod Liver GOOD!”
Wise up guy, you don’t know shit from shinola, your “research” sucks, and you still haven’t an ounce of humility.
Maybe you should start writing some articles for T-Mag, eh hot-shot?
silles,
Settle down little man.
My cod liver oil doesn’t need deodorized. Canola does.
I don’t care what research there is.
Oh, dumass…there’s research saying that high protein is bad for you and that high carb is good for you. LOL. So take your research and go ponder over it…I’ll do what makes sense while yall try to figure out all this research.
What’s up with people thinking this is some sort of competition?
Jesus Christ are you people dumb. Do you guys honestly think Cass gives a flying fuck about ‘winning’ this? It looks like she just wants to share her knowledge on this topic, which is great for us.
How about those who contribute nothing valuable just shut the fuck up?
-Zulu