It’s starting to sound like Iraq for the photojournalists.
Photojournalists Covering Katrina Fall
Victim To Growing Violence, Chaos
http://www.nppa.org/news_and_events/news/2005/09/hurricane2.html
Reddog,
This is just plain silly. Basically, you are saying, fuck, why bother bringing in supplies in a timely manner. Let the stupid bastards that didn’t leave die.
Nice compassion.
Anyone with the ability to deliver aid to thousands of suffering people, simply can’t ignore them because they were unable to comply with the mandatory evacuation order.
Anyone with the responsibility to plan for disasters needs to do a better job of being prepared for the aftermath of a known and plannable disaster, such that materials can be brought in faster.
I’m not pointing fingers at Bush, you don’t have to jump to his defence. Billions of dollars have been pumped into disaster preparedness. Do you think you have gotten value for your money?
–
And no, nobody has a huge mission accomplished party, with the president himself, because an aircraft carrier has completed a mission. What a pile of idiocy that statement is.
It was supposed to be the end of major military operations…
BostonBarrister, Rainjack, Zap Branigan, reddog6376 don’t think much of Bush. Their posts here indicate that they believe he is useless since if someone is incapable of helping he should not be blamed if he does not help. According to them the President is incapable of being of service in the case of a National emergency. We should not count on President Bush to lead us in a case of such obvious importance to national security and welfare. We should only rely on local responses. As a matter of fact now would be a good time for the President to make some overseas trips. He can comeback once we get the country cleaned up a bit. Go ahead and take a vacation Mr. President. We will call when we need someone to announce “mission accomplished”.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
vroom wrote:
It was supposed to be the end of major military operations…
…and it was. The Iraqi military was defeated. Yes, the terrorist insurgency started soon thereafter BUT the Iraqi Army, Navy, and Air Force WAS, for all practical purposes, defeated when Bush made that pronouncement from the carrier.
BTW, what does this REALLY have to do with a hurricane in AL, MS, and LA?
[/quote]
The Iraqi Navy and Air Force? Hahahaha!
[quote]freemark wrote:
BostonBarrister, Rainjack, Zap Branigan, reddog6376 don’t think much of Bush. Their posts here indicate that they believe he is useless since if someone is incapable of helping he should not be blamed if he does not help. According to them the President is incapable of being of service in the case of a National emergency. We should not count on President Bush to lead us in a case of such obvious importance to national security and welfare. We should only rely on local responses. As a matter of fact now would be a good time for the President to make some overseas trips. He can comeback once we get the country cleaned up a bit. Go ahead and take a vacation Mr. President. We will call when we need someone to announce “mission accomplished”.[/quote]
Okay…if you say so…No one has said the words that you are putting in our mouths - except you.
If you want to bitch about Iraq - start another Iraq War thread.
This is like the fourth idiot to get on here tonight and post absolute nonsense. Is there a full moon out tonight? What is with all the damn space cadets?
[quote]freemark wrote:
BostonBarrister, Rainjack, Zap Branigan, reddog6376 don’t think much of Bush. Their posts here indicate that they believe he is useless since if someone is incapable of helping he should not be blamed if he does not help. According to them the President is incapable of being of service in the case of a National emergency. We should not count on President Bush to lead us in a case of such obvious importance to national security and welfare. We should only rely on local responses. As a matter of fact now would be a good time for the President to make some overseas trips. He can comeback once we get the country cleaned up a bit. Go ahead and take a vacation Mr. President. We will call when we need someone to announce “mission accomplished”.[/quote]
Good one, freemark.
“Our nation’s leaders are responsible… to confront problems, not pass them on to others. And to lead this nation to a responsibility era, a president himself must be responsible.”
- George W. Bush’s 2000 nomination acceptance speech.
Now on to some more serious discussions. The rightwingers seem to feel that Bush cannot be held accountable for anything that happens and that is just plain stupid. He is the President of the United States people. He is where the buck stops. We are going to find that many people screwed up before and after Katrina hit. But Bush is the head honcho. Bush himself said that he is a “wartime” President; that we should reelect him because he is “the guy who gets things done”. When his country needed him most he failed to get those things done. No matter how many other people screwed up when he could have helped he didn’t.
.
Here is an example of what a US President can do if he does his job as demonstrated by one Theodore Roosevelt.
.
The earthquake struck at 5:13 AM.
.
By 7 AM federal troops had reported to the mayor.
.
By 8 AM they were patrolling the entire downtown area and searching for survivors.
.
The second quake struck at 8:14 AM.
.
By 10:05 AM the USS Chicago was on its way from San Diego to San Francisco; by 10:30 the USS Preble
had landed a medical team and set up an emergency hospital.
.
By 11 AM large parts of the city were on fire; troops continued to arrive throughout the day,
evacuating people from the areas threatened by fire to emergency shelters and Golden Gate Park.
.
St. Mary’s hospital was destroyed by the fire at 1 PM, with no loss of life, the staff and patients
having already been evacuated across the bay to Oakland.
.
By 3 PM troops had shot several looters, and dynamited buildings to make a firebreak; by five they
had buried dozens of corpses, the morgue and the police pistol range being unable to hold any more.
.
At 8:40 PM General Funston requested emergency housing - tents and shelters - from the War
Department in Washington; all of the tents in the U.S. Army were on their way to San Francisco by
4:55 AM the next morning.
.
Prisoners were evacuated to Alcatraz, and by April 20 (two days after the earthquake) the USS
Chicago had reached San Francisco, where it evacuated 20,000 refugees.
This was San Francisco 1906. Bush responded in 5 days, Teddy in 3 hours.
[quote]freemark wrote:
BostonBarrister, Rainjack, Zap Branigan, reddog6376 don’t think much of Bush. Their posts here indicate that they believe he is useless since if someone is incapable of helping he should not be blamed if he does not help. According to them the President is incapable of being of service in the case of a National emergency. We should not count on President Bush to lead us in a case of such obvious importance to national security and welfare. We should only rely on local responses. As a matter of fact now would be a good time for the President to make some overseas trips. He can comeback once we get the country cleaned up a bit. Go ahead and take a vacation Mr. President. We will call when we need someone to announce “mission accomplished”.[/quote]
That’s like saying the governer should be fired because nobody picked up my trash. There’s a hell of a lot of people who are accountable first.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Professor X wrote:
pushharder wrote:
vroom wrote:
It was supposed to be the end of major military operations…
…and it was. The Iraqi military was defeated. Yes, the terrorist insurgency started soon thereafter BUT the Iraqi Army, Navy, and Air Force WAS, for all practical purposes, defeated when Bush made that pronouncement from the carrier.
BTW, what does this REALLY have to do with a hurricane in AL, MS, and LA?
The Iraqi Navy and Air Force? Hahahaha!
“Read carefully”, grasshopper. The quote was, “the Iraqi Army, Navy, and Air Force WAS, for all practical purposes, defeated”. Whether or not all of the Iraqi military branches were competent, modern, and well-equipped enough to stand up to the United States military was not the focus of the debate. The topic at hand was the discussion about the “mission accomplished” statement by Bush.
BTW, what does this REALLY have to do with a hurricane in AL, MS, and LA?
Prof, your comments of late really do display a childishness that I was unaware of. Is somebody, i.e., your little brother standing in for you or something to that effect?
[/quote]
Your posts are what have me laughing in spite of the tragedy that has just occured. I could care less what you think of me. I am amazed that you felt the need to even type the words, “Iraq Navy and Airforce”. What a waste of typing space. I mean, seriously, it isn’t as if you are adding so much to the discussion so why are your emotions so affected?
[quote]freemark wrote:
Now on to some more serious discussions. The rightwingers seem to feel that Bush cannot be held accountable for anything that happens and that is just plain stupid. He is the President of the United States people. He is where the buck stops. We are going to find that many people screwed up before and after Katrina hit. But Bush is the head honcho. Bush himself said that he is a “wartime” President; that we should reelect him because he is “the guy who gets things done”. When his country needed him most he failed to get those things done. No matter how many other people screwed up when he could have helped he didn’t.
[/quote]
I do agree with this. A five day delay on major action is not something you look past. It isn’t a minor occurance. What I do find odd is the number of people who basically have the attitude that not only was Bush not at fault in any way, but that everyone trapped in New Orleans is a dumbass and as such, isn’t really worth the effort. You can debate all you want, but that is exactly how it comes across.
[quote]vroom wrote:
Be that as it may, it is NOT he job of the federal gov’t to hold thier hands prior to a hurricane. The city had a plan to evacuate those who were unable, but they didn’t follow it. If you want to point fingers, that’s where you should start.
Reddog,
This is just plain silly. Basically, you are saying, fuck, why bother bringing in supplies in a timely manner. Let the stupid bastards that didn’t leave die.
Nice compassion.
Anyone with the ability to deliver aid to thousands of suffering people, simply can’t ignore them because they were unable to comply with the mandatory evacuation order.
Anyone with the responsibility to plan for disasters needs to do a better job of being prepared for the aftermath of a known and plannable disaster, such that materials can be brought in faster.
I’m not pointing fingers at Bush, you don’t have to jump to his defence. Billions of dollars have been pumped into disaster preparedness. Do you think you have gotten value for your money?
[/quote]
No, I’ve never gotten my monies worth out of any federal gov’t program. Which is exactly why it’s stupid to depend on them. The local & state officials live there, they know the problems, they had an evacuation plan. The fact that they didn’t implement it, is not Bush’s fault.
[quote]…and it was. The Iraqi military was defeated. Yes, the terrorist insurgency started soon thereafter BUT the Iraqi Army, Navy, and Air Force WAS, for all practical purposes, defeated when Bush made that pronouncement from the carrier.
BTW, what does this REALLY have to do with a hurricane in AL, MS, and LA? [/quote]
It has to do with something called foresight. The ability to imagine and plan for things that are likely to happen in the future.
I’ll leave you to connect the dots with your own crayons…
[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
There’s a hell of a lot of people who are accountable first.[/quote]
This is true. However, I keep wondering if, had our last president been in this same position, if there would be such a cry to not blame the president for anything at all. You know, things that make you go, hmmmm.
Actually, I don’t know, so I’m not attacking when I say this… what more were they supposed to have done? I remember hearing about contra-flow on the highways to help increase outgoing traffic capabilities. They did declare a mandatory evacuation. They did make the Astrodome available to those that could not evacuate.
Anyway, the fact that other people may have screwed up does not mean that other folks are absolved of their own responsibilites. There is plenty of blame to go around… you don’t need to work so hard to make sure none of it reaches the upper echelons.
[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
No, I’ve never gotten my monies worth out of any federal gov’t program. Which is exactly why it’s stupid to depend on them. The local & state officials live there, they know the problems, they had an evacuation plan. The fact that they didn’t implement it, is not Bush’s fault.
[/quote]
They didn’t have enough buses for over 2,000 people. Many of the roads were closed. The order to evacuate wasn’t given until Sunday because of the altering behaviour of the hurricane and its projected path. That means about 24 hours to respond was all they had. Not only that, but rescuers are just now getting people to accept some of the assistance. Some of those people are POOR.
Wait, I don’t know if everyone understands that concept. POOR means you don’t have money. It means that many of these people were probably scared to even be shipped anywhere else because they had no way to support themselves.
There was one story given by one of the national guard that described some of the older people originally turning down helicopter rides out because they thought they had to pay to get on and they didn’t have money. That mentality is what many are dealing with now.
How do you convince people to leave in less than 24 hours who have no money to support themselves at all? This was bigger than a “local Problem” from the very start. There is no way on earth New Orleans could have supported, fed and sheltered thousands of people on their own. It is an impossibility and I am amazed at how many don’t seem to understand the scope of this.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
reddog6376 wrote:
There’s a hell of a lot of people who are accountable first.
This is true. However, I keep wondering if, had our last president been in this same position, if there would be such a cry to not blame the president for anything at all. You know, things that make you go, hmmmm.[/quote]
So if the right doesn’t conjur up the ghost of slick wille - the left will do it for us.
I would not bitch at the President in a time of war, nor would I blame a President for a natural disaster. It doesn’t matter to me which party he represents.
Go search my posts wrt the beginning of the Iraq War. I said as much then. And I haven’t changed my position.