Bush Tells New Orleans...

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
121

[quote]
BostonBarrister wrote:

This is key. The AP reported that the governor didn’t even declare a state of emergency and call for evacuation of NO until she got a personal call from the President urging her to do so.

There are reasons beyond the logistical ones why this disaster seems to be orders of magnitude worse than similar-sized hurricanes that have hit other areas over the last 50 years. And a few of them, at least, seem to point to the traditionally ineffective and corrupt state and local governments in Louisiana.

JustTheFacts wrote:

And the REAL story…

Gov. declares state of emergency as Katrina heads for Gulf Coast

Gov. Kathleen Blanco has issued a state of emergency for Louisiana as the latest projections for Hurricane Katrina have shifted west to include much of the state’s coastline as possible locations for landfall.

“Hurricane Katrina poses an imminent threat, carrying severe storms, high winds, and torrential rain that may cause flooding and damage to private property and public facilities, and threaten the safety and security of the citizens of the state of Louisiana,” said a release from the governor’s office.

The state of emergency extends from Friday, Aug. 26, until Sunday, Sept. 25, unless terminated sooner.

Katrina State of Emergency - pdf
http://gov.louisiana.gov/2005%20%20proclamations/48pro2005-Emergency-HurricaneKatrina.pdf

It will be sadly fascinating to see what the after reports have to say about local preparedness.

Yes it will.

… [/quote]
BTW, JTF,

Thanks for staying true to form and missing the point. The point I was making was focused on the evacuation, which to me still seems to be the lynchpin via which to view this. Given the strength of the storm and the possibility of its hitting NO, I believe, with my 20/20 hindsight (though others were calling for it at the time), that NO should have been evacuated earlier. While I realize they might not have been evacuated out of the storm’s path, they would have been evacuated out of the flood zone, which seems far more relevant to the analysis.

Though I suppose I should apologize for recalling another fact that was retracted via a correction. My bad.

122

[quote]stevejungman wrote:
Mr. Moose wrote:
Buck Nasty wrote:
to “stay the course” we have everything under control."

If this is the presidents definition of “control”, I would hate to see things getting out of control.

I’m sure john kerry with the help of his lovely wife,the clintons, kennedy, feinstein,gore,jesse jackson,etc… would have had everything cleared up by now.[/quote]

I’m sure he wouldn’t, but perhaps he could have the National Guard by back now.

And I’m sure Gore wouldn’t have sent them out in the first place. Probably because there was no 9/11 since he would actually be paying attention during the Clinton briefings.

123

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
Concerning protocols and what not, there seems to be a whole lot of red tape you have to go through in order to get things in motion – which is unsurprising, unfortunately, when you are talking about bureaucracies pulling together and/or overseeing other bureaucracies.

Point being, the Feds can’t just seize control.
[/quote]

It depends on what “proactive” means in this context. Proactive by request of state or proactive as in here comes the big one “we’re (Feds) taking over” or becoming primary.

Proactive Federal Response to Catastrophic Events

The National Response Plan provides mechanisms for expedited and proactive Federal support to ensure critical life-saving assistance and incident containment capabilities are in place to respond quickly and efficiently to catastrophic incidents. These are high-impact, low-probability incidents, including natural disasters and terrorist attacks that result in extraordinary levels of mass casualties, damage, or disruption severely affecting the population, infrastructure, environment, economy, national morale, and/or government functions.

Multi-Agency Coordination Structures

The National Response Plan establishes multi-agency coordinating structures at the field, regional and headquarters levels. These structures:

  • Enable the execution of the responsibilities of the President through the appropriate Federal department and agencies;

  • Integrate Federal, State, local, tribal, nongovernmental Organization, and private-sector efforts; and

Provide a national capability that addresses both site-specific incident management activities and broader regional or national issues, such as impacts to the rest of the country, immediate regional or national actions required to avert or prepare for potential subsequent events, and the management of multiple incidents.

Principal Federal Official (PFO)

A PFO may be designated by the Secretary of Homeland Security during a potential or actual Incident of National Significance. While individual Federal officials retain their authorities pertaining to specific aspects of incident management, the PFO works in conjunction with these officials to coordinate overall Federal incident management efforts.

http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/interapp/editorial/editorial_0569.xml

124

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
BTW, JTF,

Thanks for staying true to form and missing the point. The point I was making was focused on the evacuation, which to me still seems to be the lynchpin via which to view this. Given the strength of the storm and the possibility of its hitting NO, I believe, with my 20/20 hindsight (though others were calling for it at the time), that NO should have been evacuated earlier. While I realize they might not have been evacuated out of the storm’s path, they would have been evacuated out of the flood zone, which seems far more relevant to the analysis.

Though I suppose I should apologize for recalling another fact that was retracted via a correction. My bad.
[/quote]

Unfortunately this scenerio was much more like the tsunami in Indonesia than a typical hurricane that ever hit the coast. The majority of the people had no transportation of their own, how could you EVER logistically deal with an evacuation like that “just in case”?

125

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
JustTheFacts wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
The laying of blame and crying of racism I am seeing is disgusting. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

And I’m disgusted lately that whenever large numbers of people die, NOBODY gets blamed.

Blame the French for building a city below sea level. [/quote]
Half of Holland is below the sea level.

[quote]
Blame the mayor. He should have evacuated earlier. He is the one that threw out the evacuation plan and didn’t replace it.

Blame the people that elected a bullshit artist like the mayor.[/quote]
Why not blame the people that elected a bullshit artist like Bush?

[quote]
Blame the people that could have left but didn’t.[/quote]
But what the poor people, that couldn’t leave. The elderly in wheelchairs, are on oxygen. Or the nurses taking care of them. But I forgot, Bush doesn’t care about those.

[quote]
Blame yourself for not going down there to help out.

I choose to place blame on Mother Nature. [/quote]
Well, after all, she IS to blame for growing a W. Bush.

126

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Wreckless wrote:
Take a look at Fallujah.

How long was it since he declared “mission accomplished” on that one?

I swear the ignorance level of some folks on here is just sad.

“Mission accomplished” was the statement made when we had beaten the Iraqi Army. It was an end of hostilities against the nation of Iraq.

No one ever said that in reference to the terrorist takeover of Fallujah.

I swear read a damn newspaper, or watch the freakin news before you get on here and display you obvious stupidity. [/quote]

What are you saying? There was a disclaimer in smallprint on that banner? Gee, and here I am displaying my obvious stupidity by not reading it.

127

[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
Wreckless wrote:
Take a look at Fallujah.

How long was it since he declared “mission accomplished” on that one?

Christ, you idiots keep beating the same dead horse. Bush was on an aircraft carrier who was returning from the Persion Gulf after they had completed their mission. Hence, “Mission Accomplished”.

Did he say, “The war’s over”? No.
Put down the buggy whip, and step away from the dead horse![/quote]

Not in your life. Not even after he’s impeached.

128

[quote]Wreckless wrote:
Not in your life. Not even after he’s impeached.
[/quote]

Or you could keep repeating the same false BS, even though it makes you look like an idiot…

129

[quote]Wreckless wrote:
What are you saying? There was a disclaimer in smallprint on that banner? Gee, and here I am displaying my obvious stupidity by not reading it.
[/quote]

I’m saying you are pretty damn stupid for making up obvious bullshit just to make a very lame attempt at proving a point.

130

[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
Wreckless wrote:
Not in your life. Not even after he’s impeached.

Or you could keep repeating the same false BS, even though it makes you look like an idiot…[/quote]

We both know who looks like an idiot. It wasn’t me that turned down international help initially.

131

[quote]Wreckless wrote:
reddog6376 wrote:
Wreckless wrote:
Not in your life. Not even after he’s impeached.

Or you could keep repeating the same false BS, even though it makes you look like an idiot…

We both know who looks like an idiot. It wasn’t me that turned down international help initially.

[/quote]
Wow, that was the fastest “let’s change the subject” I’ve ever seen.

132

[quote]Wreckless wrote:
We both know who looks like an idiot. It wasn’t me that turned down international help initially.

[/quote]

But you have obviously turned down some offers for mental assistance.

You are a classic ignorant wack job.

133

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Wreckless wrote:
What are you saying? There was a disclaimer in smallprint on that banner? Gee, and here I am displaying my obvious stupidity by not reading it.

I’m saying you are pretty damn stupid for making up obvious bullshit just to make a very lame attempt at proving a point.

[/quote]

Obvious bullshit? Brings back memories of WMD claims.
I predict here and now that in 2 days W. will mention the 9/11 attacks in the same sentence as “war on terror” and Iraq, without actually linking them up. You wanna hear obvious bulshit? Listen to your great leader in 2 days.

134

[quote]
BostonBarrister wrote:
BTW, JTF,

Thanks for staying true to form and missing the point. The point I was making was focused on the evacuation, which to me still seems to be the lynchpin via which to view this. Given the strength of the storm and the possibility of its hitting NO, I believe, with my 20/20 hindsight (though others were calling for it at the time), that NO should have been evacuated earlier. While I realize they might not have been evacuated out of the storm’s path, they would have been evacuated out of the flood zone, which seems far more relevant to the analysis.

Though I suppose I should apologize for recalling another fact that was retracted via a correction. My bad.

JustTheFacts wrote:

Unfortunately this scenerio was much more like the tsunami in Indonesia than a typical hurricane that ever hit the coast. The majority of the people had no transportation of their own, how could you EVER logistically deal with an evacuation like that “just in case”?[/quote]

No doubt the logisitics were bad – but I wasn’t suggesting it should occur “just in case.” I was suggesting it should have been effected sooner – specifically as soon as there was a high probability a huge storm would hit NO, or close to the west (apparently almost as bad as a direct hit) or to the east. Apparently where Katrina hit land, to the east of NO, was a “least bad” of the worst-case options.

136

[quote]pushharder wrote:
I guess I was wrong.[/quote]

Oh…ouch, you got me. This is the big one, Elizabeth! Here I come! They ‘dun flamed me and I’m comin’ home!

138

In regard to wreckless’ comments…

Yes holland is also below sea level, but they have something called dykes which blocks the waters and also the fact that holland is not located where NO is. Holland doesnt see weather like Canada or the US sees, so that is a weak argument. At least give some solid reasoning…

and…

Blame the people that could have left but didn’t.
But what the poor people, that couldn’t leave. The elderly in wheelchairs, are on oxygen. Or the nurses taking care of them. But I forgot, Bush doesn’t care about those.

This would be the responsibility of the hospital and moreso the relatives and family. If someone is in an elderly home and needs oxygen, it is the hospitals and families issue to evacuate and move them to safer places and to make sure they get the relevent help.

139

Mike,

You obviously have no compassion and no clue with respect to real people in real life situations. I’m sorry, but you speak in absolutes as a teenager might. Life is more complex than that.

The people that could easily get out did. Most of them anyway.

Sure, everyone who was left behind was oviously incompetent and stupid. Even if you truly believe that, it still shouldn’t be hard to get something to them sooner than it did.

–

On another note, I think the “mission accomplished” incident is just another display of unfortunate short-sightedness. Obviously, they didn’t understand the scope of the pandoras box that had opened up…

How surprising.

140

[quote]vroom wrote:
Mike,

You obviously have no compassion and no clue with respect to real people in real life situations. I’m sorry, but you speak in absolutes as a teenager might. Life is more complex than that.

The people that could easily get out did. Most of them anyway.

Sure, everyone who was left behind was oviously incompetent and stupid. Even if you truly believe that, it still shouldn’t be hard to get something to them sooner than it did.[/quote]

Be that as it may, it is NOT he job of the federal gov’t to hold thier hands prior to a hurricane. The city had a plan to evacuate those who were unable, but they didn’t follow it. If you want to point fingers, that’s where you should start. [quote]

–

On another note, I think the “mission accomplished” incident is just another display of unfortunate short-sightedness. Obviously, they didn’t understand the scope of the pandoras box that had opened up…

How surprising.[/quote]

No, it was a display of the fact the aircraft carrier he was on had accomplished it’s mission. It did not read, “The War is Over”.