You talking about the American Bull Terrier? I wouldn’t let bull terrier breeds near kids. Sure they’ll play with them ‘docile as hamsters.’ So would a greyhound until its instincts are aroused. It’s dogs with bull terrier lines that are largely responsible for killing kids - often kids they’ve played with happily for years. Are you going to blame bad breeding or do you disagree with this?[/quote]
I wouldn’t trust ANY dog with a child. Period. However, the reality is the bull breeds can do more damage, including death, when they do attack. So accordingly, given the reputation, and the result, their attacks are over-reported. As a breed however, they trend below many many other breeds in terms of frequency of attacks.
The apbt’s natural disposition toward human is one of submission. Man aggression was GENERALLY culled from the gamedog gene pool, but many dogmen did tolerate manbiters (contrary to the romance).
Apbt’s are generally very stable, which is the most you can ask. Any dog can attack. And hence, I trust no dog around children.
As for the smaller terrier breeds, they are well known to be generally very intolerant of children.
To bring it back to the original thread, I have not seen anyone talking about hunting for feral hogs, an activity in which dogs are often used. This amounts to being about as brutal and dangerous as your average bull or dog fight, yet for some reason goes largely ignored by animal rights activists. I have never really understood why.
Also not a big fan of horse racing.[/quote]
I did raise it. I am a hog hunter. And it has been in the AR crosshairs, until Vick came along and made dog fighting “popular” again. They did shut down the hog dog “rodeos” many years ago. But fact is, feral hog are a pest, and the best way to hunt them is with dog. Yes, it’s dangerous, and yes it can be brutal. See my earlier posts.
[quote]apbt55 wrote:
[ every one I have come across I have culled immediately. . [/quote]
Bullyson was but one of the infamous tolerated maneaters on record. There are many more. It’s a dirty not so well kept secret. Manbiters were tolerated, if they were exceptional in the pit. Gr. Ch. Virgil would eat your ass alive when he was on the chain. Many others as well. And of course these dogs were bred.
That said, the dogs do require handling under injury and duress and are the most stable breed that I’ve ever encountered, barring obvious behavior defect which is pretty easy to spot (outright aggression, nervous, etc.).
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:<<< A few things in the interest of accuracy: >>>[/quote]Fair enough. It’s been a lotta years for me since I’ve paid attention to any of this.
Film cannot tell you if it is actually a pit bull, to people like BG or I.
[/quote]
I’m not talking about thoroughbreds here.
[quote]
There are only a limited number of actual American Pit Bull Terrier breeders left, ones that still breed to the same conformations, mainly gameness in the pit and the ability to be handled by a human even during the middle of a fight. The rest are some perversion of the breed and like I said rather banning the breed, or some other assinign idea (i understand you don’t agree with it); the owners of animals that commit these attacks should be criminally prosecuted as though it was they that did. Like a firearm.
Like I have said there are signals that a dog is not stable, or is inappropriately aggressive, every one I have come across I have culled immediately. The red nose in the pictures gets to live inside as a pet because he the most submissive dog I have ever owned, not an ounce of human aggression what so ever. But that is from generations of proper selective breeding.
See some people would call me cruel, but I look at animals as property and product. They have a role and if they don’t perform that role they are not worth the feed to keep. If they are not a danger then I would find a nice home to them, but if they were ever a danger they would be immediately put down. And I do not participate in illegal activities, I have a lot of good breeders because of an uncle who at one time did. So I have been around these dogs my whole life. I use them as working dogs, primarily as guardian dogs for my chickens and piglets, and I have no doubt they would take on anything from a fox, to a coyote, to a black bear to do their job and show their loyalty.
So you see I know exactly what I have, and have the generations of breeding as well as the real world experience with that animal to what they are capable of and what to expect. But just like in my livestock, I do not perpetuate bad genetics, you only breed the best. [/quote]
I agree with most of what you say and you would know more about the APBT than I do.
[quote]SILVERDAN7 wrote:
Golden retriever in Friendswood mauling to be put down
08:35 AM CDT on Thursday, March 29, 2007
By Ben Tinsley / Galveston County Daily News
FRIENDSWOOD ? A golden retriever, one of two dogs seized by authorities after the March 17 mauling death of owner Pamela Rushing, must be put to death ? probably today, according to a settlement agreement reached Wednesday evening between Rushings family and the city.
[/quote]
Yeah I know.
When children are killed or seriously mauled by dogs it always makes headlines here. Bull terriers are, shall we say ‘over-represented’ as a breed in attacks. This is fact.
Well, I don’t have experience with American Pitbull Terriers but I’ve known “English” Bull Terriers and various mongrels with bull terrier lines.
Good points.
I gave it a quick look yes.
[quote]
If not why not? Are you more interested in arguing your point or discovering all the facts. This woman has spent years compiling information that is all ready to find on her site. It is there for you to find out. I can understand ignorance, not willful ignorance.[/quote]
Well firstly, she is talking about the APBT. I’m just talking about my experience with bull terriers and conclusions that I draw from what I know. I don’t support bans on any breeds so I don’t know why you think it is important what I think.
[quote]
However, the reality is the bull breeds can do more damage, including death, when they do attack. So accordingly, given the reputation, and the result, their attacks are over-reported. As a breed however, they trend below many many other breeds in terms of frequency of attacks.
The apbt’s natural disposition toward human is one of submission. Man aggression was GENERALLY culled from the gamedog gene pool, but many dogmen did tolerate manbiters (contrary to the romance).
Apbt’s are generally very stable, which is the most you can ask. Any dog can attack. And hence, I trust no dog around children.
As for the smaller terrier breeds, they are well known to be generally very intolerant of children. [/quote]
I did raise it. I am a hog hunter. And it has been in the AR crosshairs, until Vick came along and made dog fighting “popular” again. They did shut down the hog dog “rodeos” many years ago. But fact is, feral hog are a pest, and the best way to hunt them is with dog. Yes, it’s dangerous, and yes it can be brutal. See my earlier posts.[/quote]
Hog hunting on the jersey shore, I had no idea, LOL.
You use Pits I take it?
I am with you 100 percent on the child issue. I would not leave a kid with a pug unless I thought the kid was totally capable in any given scenario.
I can be guilty of skipping the middle pages so I can jump into the fray quicker.
I did raise it. I am a hog hunter. And it has been in the AR crosshairs, until Vick came along and made dog fighting “popular” again. They did shut down the hog dog “rodeos” many years ago. But fact is, feral hog are a pest, and the best way to hunt them is with dog. Yes, it’s dangerous, and yes it can be brutal. See my earlier posts.[/quote]
Hog hunting on the jersey shore, I had no idea, LOL.
You use Pits I take it?
I am with you 100 percent on the child issue. I would not leave a kid with a pug unless I thought the kid was totally capable in any given scenario.
I can be guilty of skipping the middle pages so I can jump into the fray quicker.
[/quote]
I hunt down South. But we did actually have a recent feral hog problem in a local county. We also have feral hogs in PA. However, to your earlier point, the bunny huggers in the NE (and hence our laws) would not allow you to put dog on hog up here.
I did raise it. I am a hog hunter. And it has been in the AR crosshairs, until Vick came along and made dog fighting “popular” again. They did shut down the hog dog “rodeos” many years ago. But fact is, feral hog are a pest, and the best way to hunt them is with dog. Yes, it’s dangerous, and yes it can be brutal. See my earlier posts.[/quote]
Hog hunting on the jersey shore, I had no idea, LOL.
You use Pits I take it?
I am with you 100 percent on the child issue. I would not leave a kid with a pug unless I thought the kid was totally capable in any given scenario.
I can be guilty of skipping the middle pages so I can jump into the fray quicker.
[/quote]
oh, and yes I use pitbulls but I also have a newly imported dogo argentino I’ll be breaking in soon.
oh, and yes I use pitbulls but I also have a newly imported dogo argentino I’ll be breaking in soon.
[/quote]
As in imported from Argentina? That must be a beautiful pup. Did it cost much more bringing him over the border? A guy near me has a male that,s about as pure Martinez (Antonio Nones) lineage as you will find stateside. How old is he?
oh, and yes I use pitbulls but I also have a newly imported dogo argentino I’ll be breaking in soon.
[/quote]
As in imported from Argentina? That must be a beautiful pup. Did it cost much more bringing him over the border? A guy near me has a male that,s about as pure Martinez (Antonio Nones) lineage as you will find stateside. How old is he?
[/quote]
The grandson (Ulises) owed me a dog and he sent me a (then) year old male that was tested on boar and puma…best dog out of 8 litters as I recall. so he’s from la Cocha. a friend in Ba was the intermediary and handled the flight and paperwork. It was about 1500 for flight and all the health certs and paperwork. He was weighing around 100lbs at the time. of course, a puppy would be cheaper.
[quote]apbt55 wrote:
[ every one I have come across I have culled immediately. . [/quote]
Bullyson was but one of the infamous tolerated maneaters on record. There are many more. It’s a dirty not so well kept secret. Manbiters were tolerated, if they were exceptional in the pit. Gr. Ch. Virgil would eat your ass alive when he was on the chain. Many others as well. And of course these dogs were bred.
That said, the dogs do require handling under injury and duress and are the most stable breed that I’ve ever encountered, barring obvious behavior defect which is pretty easy to spot (outright aggression, nervous, etc.).[/quote]
Lukane’s son CH. Jacob was nasty too, at least when I was round him.
I understand it was tolerated, no question on that here, just my practice, I don’t tolerate it.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:<<< dogo argentino >>>[/quote]When I was doing professional agitator work in my younger years the one dog that made me think twice about how great an idea this might be was an argentine dogo named Zorro. That beast almost broke skin through a kevlar lined Ray Allen sleeve. Even with the equipment on I wound up with my arms and my ribs all bruised up n purple. Took the first bite on a regular sleeve without scratch pants and learned my lesson with that monster. Man that dog was strong. Even at barely a year old. She handled him wrong though and he wound up on a roof in Brooklyn.
[quote]apbt55 wrote:
[ every one I have come across I have culled immediately. . [/quote]
Bullyson was but one of the infamous tolerated maneaters on record. There are many more. It’s a dirty not so well kept secret. Manbiters were tolerated, if they were exceptional in the pit. Gr. Ch. Virgil would eat your ass alive when he was on the chain. Many others as well. And of course these dogs were bred.
That said, the dogs do require handling under injury and duress and are the most stable breed that I’ve ever encountered, barring obvious behavior defect which is pretty easy to spot (outright aggression, nervous, etc.).[/quote]
Lukane’s son CH. Jacob was nasty too, at least when I was round him.
I understand it was tolerated, no question on that here, just my practice, I don’t tolerate it. [/quote]
I’ve seen Lukane.
And I don’t tolerate it either. I’d trip over myself in my rush to shoot any apbt I own that would bite a person.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:<<< dogo argentino >>>[/quote]When I was doing professional agitator work in my younger years the one dog that made me think twice about how great an idea this might be was an argentine dogo named Zorro. That beast almost broke skin through a kevlar lined Ray Allen sleeve. Even with the equipment on I wound up with my arms and my ribs all bruised up n purple. Took the first bite on a regular sleeve without scratch pants and learned my lesson with that monster. Man that dog was strong. Even at barely a year old. She handled him wrong though and he wound up on a roof in Brooklyn.
[/quote]
who owned Zorro; I think I remember hearing or reading about the dog.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:<<< dogo argentino >>>[/quote]When I was doing professional agitator work in my younger years the one dog that made me think twice about how great an idea this might be was an argentine dogo named Zorro. That beast almost broke skin through a kevlar lined Ray Allen sleeve. Even with the equipment on I wound up with my arms and my ribs all bruised up n purple. Took the first bite on a regular sleeve without scratch pants and learned my lesson with that monster. Man that dog was strong. Even at barely a year old. She handled him wrong though and he wound up on a roof in Brooklyn.
[/quote]
who owned Zorro; I think I remember hearing or reading about the dog.[/quote]no time.
I doubt if you heard of this dog unless he wound up in the news after I left NY which is possible. He was owned by a girl named Sue who worked at C&G K-9 Patrol in Uniondale Long Island. Doindogs Kennel - C&G K-9 School Inc The guy in the blue shirt, who’s name is Profilio, taught me most of what of what I know about dog training. Awesome trainer. ALL kinds.
Zorro bit someone in her yard against her command and she wound up giving him to a business owner in Brooklyn for area security on a rooftop. She brought up his aggression without proper correction waaaay too much when he was coming up and she ended with exactly what Pro told her she would. A fearless outta control monstrosity with the physical capability to permanently mangle a full grown man.
BTW, Do you know Marty Lieberman of Marty’s dog food? He’s on Long Island too. Or was. Bulldog man, but not a fighter that I ever of anyway. How bout Andy Hanlon or John Brown? I did work for those guys too.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:<<< dogo argentino >>>[/quote]When I was doing professional agitator work in my younger years the one dog that made me think twice about how great an idea this might be was an argentine dogo named Zorro. That beast almost broke skin through a kevlar lined Ray Allen sleeve. Even with the equipment on I wound up with my arms and my ribs all bruised up n purple. Took the first bite on a regular sleeve without scratch pants and learned my lesson with that monster. Man that dog was strong. Even at barely a year old. She handled him wrong though and he wound up on a roof in Brooklyn.
[/quote]
who owned Zorro; I think I remember hearing or reading about the dog.[/quote]no time.
I doubt if you heard of this dog unless he wound up in the news after I left NY which is possible. He was owned by a girl named Sue who worked at C&G K-9 Patrol in Uniondale Long Island. Doindogs Kennel - C&G K-9 School Inc The guy in the blue shirt, who’s name is Profilio, taught me most of what of what I know about dog training. Awesome trainer. ALL kinds.
Zorro bit someone in her yard against her command and she wound up giving him to a business owner in Brooklyn for area security on a rooftop. She brought up his aggression without proper correction waaaay too much when he was coming up and she ended with exactly what Pro told her she would. A fearless outta control monstrosity with the physical capability to permanently mangle a full grown man.
BTW, Do you know Marty Lieberman of Marty’s dog food? He’s on Long Island too. Or was. Bulldog man, but not a fighter that I ever of anyway. How bout Andy Hanlon or John Brown? I did work for those guys too.
[/quote]
I used to talk to Marty a lot about 10 years ago. Even used his feed for a bit. I don’t know if you know, but he had a hand in the original Swinford bandog. We’ve since lost touch. The other two don’t ring a bell, but as I’m fond of saying, I have enough “friends”…in other words, we could have met somewhere but I wouldn’t necessarily engage someone.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:<<< I used to talk to Marty a lot about 10 years ago. Even used his feed for a bit. I don’t know if you know, but he had a hand in the original Swinford bandog. We’ve since lost touch. The other two don’t ring a bell, but as I’m fond of saying, I have enough “friends”…in other words, we could have met somewhere but I wouldn’t necessarily engage someone. [/quote]Oh yeah, Marty’s a serious dog dood. I used to pick up his food at his place for C&G which sold it at the time. He had a couple treadmills which usually had a dog goin to town. He had one pup that liked to jump on the bottom and take off before he could put him on right lol.
At the website I linked to, that A frame obstacle, which looks eerily like the one I built like 17 or 18 years ago, is about 5 feet from where I almost got my arm torn off and my ribs all bruised up by Zorro. There’s a fence that’s outta sight there toward the camera which I gave him a bite over in one of our early attempts to try n find a path to get some civilized training into him.
He practically swallowed that soft sleeve with my arm so I could not get it out and he thrashed me around on that fence til I had holes in my t-shirt and my side was all bruised up n bleeding. They juiced him with the tri-tronics and he just sorta wailed n winced and bit even harder snortin n snarlin. If I remember right that time it took several stiff blows over that very substantial skull with a piece of department issue firehose to get him to finally out.
The bummer is that he coulda been a home run dog if she would have balanced him from the start. Toughest dog I ever worked fer sher and there were some tough ones. Fila’s, cane corso’s, one really good dobey (and there aren’t that many left) named Hantz. There was another butcher, but he was manageable. Neopolitan mastiffs, beaucerons, rotties of course. How bout a standard poodle? Oh yeah, the good ones will put a hurtin on the bad guys for ya. Even some schutzhund and ringsport type stuff with shepherds and malanois.
I was never a guy who memorized bloodlines n stuff like that though. Not my thing really.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:<<< dogo argentino >>>[/quote]When I was doing professional agitator work in my younger years the one dog that made me think twice about how great an idea this might be was an argentine dogo named Zorro. That beast almost broke skin through a kevlar lined Ray Allen sleeve. Even with the equipment on I wound up with my arms and my ribs all bruised up n purple. Took the first bite on a regular sleeve without scratch pants and learned my lesson with that monster. Man that dog was strong. Even at barely a year old. She handled him wrong though and he wound up on a roof in Brooklyn.
[/quote]
who owned Zorro; I think I remember hearing or reading about the dog.[/quote]
Are the Dogos used like catch dogs or trackers. They look interesting, any good breeders stateside?
