Bullfighting & Fox Hunting Bans

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
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Underlined addition mine:[quote]SexMachine wrote:<<< I can’t speak about historic organised dog fighting in US however.[/quote]I’ll give ya a hint. There was no snarling (unless you wanted to lose) or flying spattering blood and dogs rarely died or were even permanently injured in a match though both did happen. I will say though out of honesty that a dog who lost by any display of a lack of gameness, such as a “turn” (look it up), was usually culled or at very best never allowed to breed.

This vision of foaming blood spattered barbarians glorying in the suffering of poor hapless animals who have been forced to fight is just plain false LOL! Like really REALLY false.
Meet Crenshaw’s Champion Jeep. Possibly the most famous and dead game fighting bulldog of all time. He fought pit matches lasting up to 3 hours. I don’t remember how many, but quite a few and against very worthy opponents. 41 pounds of unstoppable laser focused dynamite at pit weight and docile as a hamster with the kiddies. This is him after retirement when I’ve heard that up to ten grand was paid for his very in demand stud services. Doesn’t look any worse for wear.

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[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I’ll give ya a hint. There was no snarling (unless you wanted to lose) or flying spattering blood and dogs rarely died or were even permanently injured in a match though both did happen.

[/quote]

Fair enough. I don’t know a lot about it but I realise it has a different history in US.

Just part of breeding.

I know they’re not forced to fight. But I also know that organised dog fighting CAN be pretty seedy. Doesn’t necessarily mean it has to be. A number of people here including you have made some good points and I have reconsidered my stance somewhat.

You talking about the American Bull Terrier? I wouldn’t let bull terrier breeds near kids. Sure they’ll play with them ‘docile as hamsters.’ So would a greyhound until its instincts are aroused. It’s dogs with bull terrier lines that are largely responsible for killing kids - often kids they’ve played with happily for years. Are you going to blame bad breeding or do you disagree with this?

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[quote]pushharder wrote:
Butchered the deer this past weekend.

Grilled the backstraps Sunday night. Really good stuff.

[photo]35014[/photo][/quote]

A+

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This vision of foaming blood spattered barbarians glorying in the suffering of poor hapless animals who have been forced to fight is just plain false LOL! Like really REALLY false.
Meet Crenshaw’s Champion Jeep. Possibly the most famous and dead game fighting bulldog of all time. He fought pit matches lasting up to 3 hours. I don’t remember how many, but quite a few and against very worthy opponents. 41 pounds of unstoppable laser focused dynamite at pit weight and docile as a hamster with the kiddies. This is him after retirement when I’ve heard that up to ten grand was paid for his very in demand stud services. Doesn’t look any worse for wear.
[/quote]

You were a little over the top but pretty on point up to this comment. Anyone with the familiarity you are claiming would know that regardless of what a blurry pictue shows, that dog is covered in scars from head to toe, thats a fact.

Second the notion that it has not always been a brutal sport at its very heart is insane.

Game bred dogs are also still very prevalent in this country. The people that breed them are simply not advertising and selling to whoever the hell they can.

To bring it back to the original thread, I have not seen anyone talking about hunting for feral hogs, an activity in which dogs are often used. This amounts to being about as brutal and dangerous as your average bull or dog fight, yet for some reason goes largely ignored by animal rights activists. I have never really understood why.

Also not a big fan of horse racing.

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You talking about the American Bull Terrier? I wouldn’t let bull terrier breeds near kids. Sure they’ll play with them ‘docile as hamsters.’ So would a greyhound until its instincts are aroused. It’s dogs with bull terrier lines that are largely responsible for killing kids - often kids they’ve played with happily for years. Are you going to blame bad breeding or do you disagree with this?[/quote]

Yea, I will, bad breeding, , bad socialization, irresponsible ownership, as well as media hype causing over reporting of one type of dog attack wjile ignoring the majority of others, you want evidence, go to this site http://workingpitbull.com/ .

What do you mean with the grey hound example, that it is just as likely to bite a kid once it’s instincts are aroused? Because that is not a very strong supporter of your evidence. This says thatyou think just about any dog will bite if aroused or provoked .

Seriously, before you post do a twenty second google search. If you know how to read one of the first things you should find is that the American Pit Bull Terrier( completely different breed from a bull terrier BTW), because of it’s fighting background has more human friendly behavior bred into them than any other breed of dog.

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Pit bulls are mean nasty animals, and should never be allowed near children

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Especially very small children with food, they will eat them with the food.

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Actually in that one I think he is more interested in the chickens on the front porch, that my wife is chasing away.

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I would have to say my favorite dogs were from lines of stp Buck, Pup PuP and black Pazmanian

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[quote]SILVERDAN7 wrote:

Yea, I will, bad breeding, , bad socialization, irresponsible ownership, as well as media hype causing over reporting of one type of dog attack wjile ignoring the majority of others, you want evidence, go to this site http://workingpitbull.com/ .

[/quote]

Yeah that’s what I thought.

I was making a comparison to illustrate a point. Greyhounds are ‘sight hounds’ - when they see something start to move they instinctively chase it down and rip it to pieces. Bull terriers have similar instincts - killer instincts. That’s what they’re bred for. Both can be very playful and docile with kids but they can turn in an instant. Doesn’t mean it WILL happen obviously, but people need to understand their breeds. Playful/docile means nada.

[quote]
Seriously, before you post do a twenty second google search. If you know how to read one of the first things you should find is that the American Pit Bull Terrier( completely different breed from a bull terrier BTW), because of it’s fighting background has more human friendly behavior bred into them than any other breed of dog.[/quote]

Friendly behaviour yes. Pit bull terriers killing kids is a monthly event in this country. I see news footage of the dogs often as the media show up to film them. Often very friendly behaviour from them after(and before) their attack. I’m not against the breed BTW.

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I have dealt with well over 100 pit bulls and never seen one attach without warning or for a particular reason. The problem is people breeding irresponsibly and not getting rid of bad characteristics.

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Here’s a recent example:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/child-killed-in-dog-attack-at-st-albans/story-fn7x8me2-1226116993730

“Josephine Mizzi, who lives opposite the house where the dog attack occurred, told how the young children would often be playing on the grass outside their home.”

“Mr Prsa said he wasn’t aware of the dog causing any problems before.”

Other attacks:

17 August 2011
A pit bull cross mauled a four-year-old girl to death and savaged attacked two of her relatives after it wandered into the youngster’s family home in St Albans.

19 Feb 2011
A pit bull terrier was destroyed after biting a police officer’s face on the New South Wales south coast town of Bomaderry.

13 Feb 2011
A young family was attacked by an American pit bull and an American Staffordshire Terrier in Hoppers Crossing, before a 23-year-old man was attacked by the same pair just a few doors down.

23 March 2010
A 67-year-old grandmother had her arm savaged by her pit bull cross so badly it needed to be amputated.

23 Dec 2009
A 61-year-old man was attacked by two pit bulls in Albanvale, leading to six pit bull terriers being seized in Melbourne’s west.

22 Oct 2009
A Torquay teenager was cut and bruised defending her Maltese Terrier from a pit bull-mastiff that set upon them on the beach.

18 Oct 2009
An American pit bull attacked a Reservoir man and the two dogs he was walking, savaging his hand, killing one dog and injuring the other. The pit bull was put down at the scene.

etc etc etc

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[quote]SexMachine wrote:
Here’s a recent example:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/child-killed-in-dog-attack-at-st-albans/story-fn7x8me2-1226116993730

“Josephine Mizzi, who lives opposite the house where the dog attack occurred, told how the young children would often be playing on the grass outside their home.”

“Mr Prsa said he wasn’t aware of the dog causing any problems before.”

Other attacks:

17 August 2011
A pit bull cross mauled a four-year-old girl to death and savaged attacked two of her relatives after it wandered into the youngster’s family home in St Albans.

19 Feb 2011
A pit bull terrier was destroyed after biting a police officer’s face on the New South Wales south coast town of Bomaderry.

13 Feb 2011
A young family was attacked by an American pit bull and an American Staffordshire Terrier in Hoppers Crossing, before a 23-year-old man was attacked by the same pair just a few doors down.

23 March 2010
A 67-year-old grandmother had her arm savaged by her pit bull cross so badly it needed to be amputated.

23 Dec 2009
A 61-year-old man was attacked by two pit bulls in Albanvale, leading to six pit bull terriers being seized in Melbourne’s west.

22 Oct 2009
A Torquay teenager was cut and bruised defending her Maltese Terrier from a pit bull-mastiff that set upon them on the beach.

18 Oct 2009
An American pit bull attacked a Reservoir man and the two dogs he was walking, savaging his hand, killing one dog and injuring the other. The pit bull was put down at the scene.

etc etc etc[/quote]

so 7 examples from 2009 to 2011, let’s ban cars, alcohol, cigarettes, toasters, houses, vacuums, or how about we criminally prosecute negligent owners for murder or assault.

And you can verify they were all actually pit bulls, most animal officers can’t tell a pit bull from other breeds.

You have your thoughts I have mine, just to force me to live by your beliefs. That is where the problem comes in.

Number of deaths per day from vehicle accidents 115,
Actually we should ban medical procedures, in 2009 there were 2,550 deaths from medical complications.

let’s see that is compared to 32 total deaths related to dog bites the same year, of which about 8 were supposedly pit bulls, yeah sounds like an epidemic to me, liek they are a rampid problem.

And in one case a mother let her 2 year old crawl under a fence while she talked on her phone and was attacked by a dog on a chain. who’s fault is that, not the two year old, but not the dog owner, they had split rail fence and the dog restrained.

Like I said people can do what they want, just don’t impose on others rights, don’t punish the masses because of the ignorance of the few.

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[quote]apbt55 wrote:

so 7 examples from 2009 to 2011, let’s ban cars, alcohol, cigarettes, toasters, houses, vacuums, or how about we criminally prosecute negligent owners for murder or assault.

[/quote]

I don’t support bans on the breed. I’m not against the breed.

I can. As I said, they are often filmed by the media.

I don’t. As I said, I don’t support bans on the breed. I just think people who keep them as pets need to understand what they are capable of.

I agree with you. And yes, there is no epidemic.

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[quote]SexMachine wrote:

And you can verify they were all actually pi bulls, most animal officers can’t tell a pit bull from other breeds.

I can. As I said, they are often filmed by the media.

[/quote]

Film cannot tell you if it is actually a pit bull, to people like BG or I. There are only a limited number of actual American Pit Bull Terrier breeders left, ones that still breed to the same conformations, mainly gameness in the pit and the ability to be handled by a human even during the middle of a fight. The rest are some perversion of the breed and like I said rather banning the breed, or some other assinign idea (i understand you don’t agree with it); the owners of animals that commit these attacks should be criminally prosecuted as though it was they that did. Like a firearm.

Like I have said there are signals that a dog is not stable, or is inappropriately aggressive, every one I have come across I have culled immediately. The red nose in the pictures gets to live inside as a pet because he the most submissive dog I have ever owned, not an ounce of human aggression what so ever. But that is from generations of proper selective breeding.

See some people would call me cruel, but I look at animals as property and product. They have a role and if they don’t perform that role they are not worth the feed to keep. If they are not a danger then I would find a nice home to them, but if they were ever a danger they would be immediately put down. And I do not participate in illegal activities, I have a lot of good breeders because of an uncle who at one time did. So I have been around these dogs my whole life. I use them as working dogs, primarily as guardian dogs for my chickens and piglets, and I have no doubt they would take on anything from a fox, to a coyote, to a black bear to do their job and show their loyalty.

So you see I know exactly what I have, and have the generations of breeding as well as the real world experience with that animal to what they are capable of and what to expect. But just like in my livestock, I do not perpetuate bad genetics, you only breed the best.

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and the male in my avatar is out of Ch. nigel and a deadgame bitch, she was last known as killer clowns bomber, but for her first 3 years she was my dog laya, but I had bought her with someone else for her breeding lines and after that litter we sold her to someone else. Absolutely awesome dog he is, but he is slightly protective with strangers so he is an outside dog.

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Golden retriever in Friendswood mauling to be put down
08:35 AM CDT on Thursday, March 29, 2007
By Ben Tinsley / Galveston County Daily News

FRIENDSWOOD ? A golden retriever, one of two dogs seized by authorities after the March 17 mauling death of owner Pamela Rushing, must be put to death ? probably today, according to a settlement agreement reached Wednesday evening between Rushings family and the city.

These reports happen all the time, because they are not high rating news when the dog is not a pitbull, it never makes it out of the back page of the local circuit.

Find more than one or two videos of an American Pit Bull Attack, they are not all over the place, Stupid shows like Animals gone wild simply replay the same videos hundreds of thousands of times.

You go back twenty years and there is no record of American Pitbull Terriers having high bite records, this is prior to a handful of highly publicized reports putting the pitbull foremost in the mind of any chump who wants a dog that he thinks will be/ will make him look tough.

What APBT55 is saying that there are frequent conflicts between the news report of a Pitbull attack and a humane society report, which I have seen ranging from bulldog and boxer (honest mistake for a non dog person calling in an attack) ranging to mutts and golden retrievers.

Ill ask, did you go to look at the website I posted. If not why not? Are you more interested in arguing your point or discovering all the facts. This woman has spent years compiling information that is all ready to find on her site. It is there for you to find out. I can understand ignorance, not willful ignorance.

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TULSA, OK – A baby boy was mauled by a dog on Monday morning in south Tulsa. Police say it happened while the parents left the child in a baby swing unattended inside their home. The News On 6’s Emory Bryan reports they believe the dog was just a puppy.
Tulsa Police have a lot of questions yet to be answered about what happened, but they believe a 6-week-old black lab bit the baby numerous times. It was unclear how long the baby had been dead when an ambulance was called Monday morning, said police.

A family member made the 911 call at 10:19 Monday morning. When paramedics arrived, the eight and a half-week-old little boy was dead. A forensic examination of the body is pending, but Tulsa Police say it was obvious the baby boy was mauled by a dog.

“Let’s just say it was apparent the wounds came from the dog, and we don’t know what caused the death of the child, but at this point it appears to be dog bites,” said Tulsa Police Officer Jason Willingham.

Maybe leaving your kids alone with dogs more powerful than they are is not a great idea?

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[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Underlined addition mine:[quote]SexMachine wrote:<<< I can’t speak about historic organised dog fighting in US however.[/quote]I’ll give ya a hint. There was no snarling (unless you wanted to lose) or flying spattering blood and dogs rarely died or were even permanently injured in a match though both did happen. I will say though out of honesty that a dog who lost by any display of a lack of gameness, such as a “turn” (look it up), was usually culled or at very best never allowed to breed.

This vision of foaming blood spattered barbarians glorying in the suffering of poor hapless animals who have been forced to fight is just plain false LOL! Like really REALLY false.
Meet Crenshaw’s Champion Jeep. Possibly the most famous and dead game fighting bulldog of all time. He fought pit matches lasting up to 3 hours. I don’t remember how many, but quite a few and against very worthy opponents. 41 pounds of unstoppable laser focused dynamite at pit weight and docile as a hamster with the kiddies. This is him after retirement when I’ve heard that up to ten grand was paid for his very in demand stud services. Doesn’t look any worse for wear.
[/quote]

I knew Mr. Crenshaw sir. And I’ll again caution you against your romancing the reputation of the dogmen of the past, because you’d be wrong. Sex Machine is indeed very wrong, but you’re on equally shaky ground.

A few things in the interest of accuracy:

I turn is only the means to begin the scratching. There was no inhibition against breeding a dog that turned, only a dog that quit. Compared to cock fighters however, dog fighters were tame in their breeding practices. When a rooster quit, it’s entire living family was culled.

A dog cannot be “deadgame” without being dead :slight_smile: Small distinction I know.

I don’t know about 10k for stud services but Mr. Crenshaw did sell an offspring down from Jeep to a very well known superbowl winning lineman for $75,000.