[quote]Professor X wrote:
That graph shows a significant increase at the point of obesity…and does not support what was written about body fat percentage alone less than OBESE showing what Brick wrote.[/quote]
Brick wrote that “overweight (not obesity) puts one at risk for heart disease, hyperlipidemia, and in some cases, diminished psychological and social well being.”
The graph clearly illustrates a positive association between body fat and prevalence. The prevalence increases below the obesity cutoffs, as expected from Brick’s post, an association occurring regardless of what your personal interpretation of “significant” happens to be.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Correlation does not show cause.[/quote]
You are correct here and, due to the cross-sectional nature of this particular study, causality is up for speculation. However, I have already discussed the relevant pathophysiology in a previous thread and I believe stronghold contributed a visual summarization, as well.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Please post the study if you want to discuss it further…but that chart does not show that body fat alone causes these risk factors…especially with the HUGE discrepancy between Korean men and women…which points to other factors at work.[/quote]
Such as women naturally carrying more body fat and pre-menopausal women being less susceptible to CVD than their male counterparts?
Anonym. Thanks for dropping by. I love how many research papers you read and have access to. I know I have asked before but what so you do exactly and why do you enjoy literature so much. Damn I hate that stuff. Having to read quite a bit this summer for my research project and it makes me want to jump off a cliff
“…the odds of being metabolically abnormal were 1.61 (95% CI 0.94-2.77) for medium %BF subjects compared to the low group and nearly tripled for high %BF subjects (OR 2.73, 95% CI 1.63-4.86).”
Low: <15.2% men, <29.7% women
Medium: 15.3-20.7% men, 29.8-34.9% women
High: >20.8% men, >35.0% women
(should be less than/greater than OR equal to for those cutoffs, but that symbol gets fucked when copy/pasted)
I will upload this one along with the previous study a little later.
Gonna do a little list of the things fat cells are known to help regulate. Glucose and lipid metabolism, appetite regulation and body weight homeostasis, immunity, coagulation and fibrinolysis, angiogenesis and vascular tone control, and even reproduction. secrete hormones, but also growth factors, cytokines, complement factors and matrix proteins.
Ectopic fat from insulin resistance which fat release restin when they grow, coating arteries and creating metabolic mayhem from fat not being stored.
aromatase (the enzyme converts testosterone and other androgens to estrogens) is located in subcutaneous fat and activated by the glucocorticoid a stress hormone.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Men showing health issues at 15% or less points to FAT not being the cause…when the women show none of this.[/quote]
You feel that there is “a” cause of dyslipidemia, hypertension, etc?
No? Then why would some people having those diseases as a result of issues other than fat invalidate the assertion that fat CAN be the cause of those in other individuals and at other levels?
You keep getting caught up with the women. You DO see the positive correlation between prevalence and body fat percentage for them too, right? And you DO realize that women are naturally prone to higher body fat levels than men, right? And you ARE familiar with the research suggesting cardioprotective and immunomodulatory effects of estrogen, right?
Good, so you will therefore understand why the prevalence of these diseases will NOT match up nicely between sexes and certainly not % for %; this is expected and we already have quite a bit of evidence as to why this might be.
Now, I know that this is going to take the same path as the Twinkie Diet discussion — how we can’t prove people at 10% are no more active than those at 15% and who all do everything else exactly the same as those at 20%. And, the truth is, we CAN’T… but that still doesn’t necessarily invalidate one study on Korean individuals and another on Canucks which both agree not only with each other but what we know about the metabolic activity and repercussions of increasing fat tissue.
See, I KNOW that I can ctrl+c/v entire sections from Robbins and Cotran, provide studies showing this relationship in Koreans, Brazilians, Canadians, blacks, whites, men and women and it will all be met with nothing more substantial than vague comments about variability and genetics and a whole lotta la-la-la-ing.
Please, anyone refer to the book Advanced Nutrition Metabolism to see what extra fatness does to your body! Yes, being overweight can CAUSE hyperlipidemia. What the heck does anyone think all that damn fat is doing on a body?
And there are people who’ve resolved their high blood sugar and hypertension just by reducing their fat mass, even sometimes eating whatever items they please so long as they remain in a caloric deficit.
Brick said being overweight was a risk factor.[/quote]
Brick wrote,
…which makes you incorrect.
[quote]
You said it wasn’t and tried to change it to “moderate body fat.”
In classic X form “stop lying”, “stay on topic”, “stick to what is written” [/quote]
I’m sorry, but what?[/quote]
Ok so I went all the way back to page 30, well before this side bar even came up, and didn’t see that quote from brick.
Could you please point it out?
Are you sure you didn’t just make that quote up to further your argument?
Thanks.
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Anonym. Thanks for dropping by. I love how many research papers you read and have access to. I know I have asked before but what so you do exactly and why do you enjoy literature so much. Damn I hate that stuff. Having to read quite a bit this summer for my research project and it makes me want to jump off a cliff[/quote]
Well, up until early last month I was a pharmacy technician by night and a tutor/lab instructor (“adjunct faculty”, so they said)/research assistant by day (all of which were bacteria-related).
Got kicked off the gravy train when I graduated (but still have access to the library’s subscription service) so nowadays I mostly just get yelled at by old men, flirted with by old women and explain to people that there’s really no reason why I, being in the pharmacy and all, would know whether or not the store carries that particular flavor of that particular brand of canned cat food. Sucks balls and doesn’t do much to pay back graduate loans but it’ll do until summer ends.
I don’t universally love scientific literature (HATED reading stuff on the research I was doing), but after cranking out a review article this past semester this kinda stuff is moderately enjoyable by comparison.
Good luck on the research project… having to critically examine studies about a topic you don’t really give a shit about is brutal.
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Anonym. Thanks for dropping by. I love how many research papers you read and have access to. I know I have asked before but what so you do exactly and why do you enjoy literature so much. Damn I hate that stuff. Having to read quite a bit this summer for my research project and it makes me want to jump off a cliff[/quote]
Well, up until early last month I was a pharmacy technician by night and a tutor/lab instructor (“adjunct faculty”, so they said)/research assistant by day (all of which were bacteria-related).
Got kicked off the gravy train when I graduated (but still have access to the library’s subscription service) so nowadays I mostly just get yelled at by old men, flirted with by old women and explain to people that there’s really no reason why I, being in the pharmacy and all, would know whether or not the store carries that particular flavor of that particular brand of canned cat food. Sucks balls and doesn’t do much to pay back graduate loans but it’ll do until summer ends.
I don’t universally love scientific literature (HATED reading stuff on the research I was doing), but after cranking out a review article this past semester this kinda stuff is moderately enjoyable by comparison.
Good luck on the research project… having to critically examine studies about a topic you don’t really give a shit about is brutal.[/quote]
Nice I was a pharm tech in undergrad in a hospital.
Yeah the research is not what I want to do but it will help me get into a residency hopefully.
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Nice I was a pharm tech in undergrad in a hospital.
Yeah the research is not what I want to do but it will help me get into a residency hopefully.
[/quote]
Christ I’d love to work in a hospital. These assholes literally want me cold calling old people to talk them into coming in for a shingles vaccine. It’s such a disgrace.
Just grind your way through that shit, man… your classes probably made you a fucking academic workhorse, so it’s nothing you can’t handle.
That being said, Adderall is a magic wand casting miracles all over boring grunt work.
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Nice I was a pharm tech in undergrad in a hospital.
Yeah the research is not what I want to do but it will help me get into a residency hopefully.
[/quote]
Christ I’d love to work in a hospital. These assholes literally want me cold calling old people to talk them into coming in for a shingles vaccine. It’s such a disgrace.
Just grind your way through that shit, man… your classes probably made you a fucking academic workhorse, so it’s nothing you can’t handle.
That being said, Adderall is a magic wand casting miracles all over boring grunt work.[/quote]
I am glad I was able to do the hospital gig. I new the pharmacy director for inpatient so networking lol. I was not certified but not that it took a ton of skills other than understanding the nursing saying drug names at a million miles an hour. I would die doing community pharmacy work. Respect for your patience man
Lol I have been using noops for a year + now and think they help studying efficiency quite a bit.
I can…and nothing there shows that a fat level less than obesity causes health problems.
[/quote]
Overweight (not obesity) puts one at risk for heart disease, hyperlipidemia, and in some cases, diminished psychological and social well being. [/quote]
This is false info.
Your DIET AND LIFE STYLE AND GENETICS have way more to do with this.
Please show info supporting the idea that simply having a moderate body fat percentage causes any of this.[/quote]
Yeah, Im with X on this one. Science has pretty much got this one answered, unless there is some sort of case study I am not familiar with.
I can…and nothing there shows that a fat level less than obesity causes health problems.
[/quote]
Overweight (not obesity) puts one at risk for heart disease, hyperlipidemia, and in some cases, diminished psychological and social well being. [/quote]
This is false info.
Your DIET AND LIFE STYLE AND GENETICS have way more to do with this.
Please show info supporting the idea that simply having a moderate body fat percentage causes any of this.[/quote]
Yeah, Im with X on this one. Science has pretty much got this one answered, unless there is some sort of case study I am not familiar with.[/quote]
lol
Denying that being overweight puts someone at risk for heart disease is idiotic.
I don’t have time to look up “studies” but here are a few website links: