[quote]Steel Nation wrote:
I think it would help if people had more realistic expectations when it came to lifetime muscle gain.
The natural guy bulking up to 250+ is either delusional or misinformed (assuming normal height).[/quote]
The force is STRONG with Paul Carter, he is a bad ass dude.
The money quotes…
“The biggest most guys have is that they underestimate their bodyfat. The guy that thinks he’s 10% is usually more like 15-17%. Calipers are nice, but they can be off by as much as 5%.”
“But I have visible upper abs in the morning!”
“You’re still fat. I wish I had a dollar for each time some fat guy told me this. This is NOT abs. Second, everyone carries bodyfat a little bit differently. The 20%+ fat guy could still have an outline of abs, but carry the majority of fat in his legs and ass (no homo). The 15% guy may carry that “belt of fat” around his waist, but have very lean legs and a really lean sexy ass (no homo).”
[/quote]
Truthfully, there aren’t such things as empty calories. I guess one can say foods that are calorically dense but not nutritively dense provide empty calories, but most people don’t eat a diet solely of those foods.
Naturals, and even the drug assisted in most cases, will gain fat on a bulk, and this is why a two steps foward, one step back approach–either with calorie cycling on a weekly basis, or going through periods of bulking and cutting for months at a time–is necessary for the majority of people.
The amount of fat gain on a bulk has to do with genetics and how much the person prefers to carry. Many people are now starting to realize the body gains muscle more efficiently while staying somewhat lean.
Make the caloric increases gradual, say about 10 to 15% above maintenance, and pay attention to what’s going on. As said a million times, after the first year, naturals don’t gain so much damn muscle each year, so accepting a 3 to 5 pound weight gain per month for months on end is excessive. If one were to do that for months on end like X suggests, they’d wind up carrying a ton of fat. A ten pound muscle gain with some added fat is VERY GOOD for a year. After the third or fourth year, the gains will come in freaking ounces or GRAMS per month, if that. There might even be some months after that time, where NOTHING happens for a natural, just little drips and drabs of gains here and there. So big caloric increases will not force a gain faster.
I think 1 gram of protein per pound is enough and beyond that, whether calories for growth from carbs or fats isn’t such a big deal, so long as there’s about 100 gram of carbs per day. I don’t think specific carbohydrate and fat amounts to make up calories is a big deal. So for me, it’s total protein amount, total caloric amount, small amount of EFA’s per day, and fruits and veggies. I made my diet excessively miserable in the past with stiff, tightassed nutrient prescriptions. If you need 4,000 calories to grow and 1,000 come from pizza, or a smaller amount from an ice cream desert, it’s not a “cheat” so long as protein and caloric need are followed for the day. If you like a stiffer, more boring and laborious way of going about bulking, that’s fine. I just think this shit should enjoyable at this point.
Truthfully, there aren’t such things as empty calories. I guess one can say foods that are calorically dense but not nutritively dense provide empty calories, but most people don’t eat a diet solely of those foods.
Naturals, and even the drug assisted in most cases, will gain fat on a bulk, and this is why a two steps foward, one step back approach–either with calorie cycling on a weekly basis, or going through periods of bulking and cutting for months at a time–is necessary for the majority of people.
The amount of fat gain on a bulk has to do with genetics and how much the person prefers to carry. Many people are now starting to realize the body gains muscle more efficiently while staying somewhat lean.
Make the caloric increases gradual, say about 10 to 15% above maintenance, and pay attention to what’s going on. As said a million times, after the first year, naturals don’t gain so much damn muscle each year, so accepting a 3 to 5 pound weight gain per month for months on end is excessive. If one were to do that for months on end like X suggests, they’d wind up carrying a ton of fat. A ten pound muscle gain with some added fat is VERY GOOD for a year. After the third or fourth year, the gains will come in freaking ounces or GRAMS per month, if that. There might even be some months after that time, where NOTHING happens for a natural, just little drips and drabs of gains here and there. So big caloric increases will not force a gain faster.
I think 1 gram of protein per pound is enough and beyond that, whether calories for growth from carbs or fats isn’t such a big deal, so long as there’s about 100 gram of carbs per day. I don’t think specific carbohydrate and fat amounts to make up calories is a big deal. So for me, it’s total protein amount, total caloric amount, small amount of EFA’s per day, and fruits and veggies. I made my diet excessively miserable in the past with stiff, tightassed nutrient prescriptions. If you need 4,000 calories to grow and 1,000 come from pizza, or a smaller amount from an ice cream desert, it’s not a “cheat” so long as protein and caloric need are followed for the day. If you like a stiffer, more boring and laborious way of going about bulking, that’s fine. I just think this shit should enjoyable at this point.
[/quote]
I think calories vs fat matter significantly for some people (me). I’m eating more calories now than at the beginning of my leaning out, and I’m still getting leaner. I’m up 6 or so pounds from my lightest on the “cut” and I’ve gotten more vascular.
I think for many people it doesn’t matter. For some people it matters a lot.
For much of my “cut” I only had 2 diet macro rules. A minimum amount of protein and a maximum amount of carbs. No limit of calories, fat, or protein.
The guys at the fire hall were actually poking fun at me saying I’d been shooting up heroine yesterday.
Truthfully, there aren’t such things as empty calories. I guess one can say foods that are calorically dense but not nutritively dense provide empty calories, but most people don’t eat a diet solely of those foods.
Naturals, and even the drug assisted in most cases, will gain fat on a bulk, and this is why a two steps foward, one step back approach–either with calorie cycling on a weekly basis, or going through periods of bulking and cutting for months at a time–is necessary for the majority of people.
The amount of fat gain on a bulk has to do with genetics and how much the person prefers to carry. Many people are now starting to realize the body gains muscle more efficiently while staying somewhat lean.
Make the caloric increases gradual, say about 10 to 15% above maintenance, and pay attention to what’s going on. As said a million times, after the first year, naturals don’t gain so much damn muscle each year, so accepting a 3 to 5 pound weight gain per month for months on end is excessive. If one were to do that for months on end like X suggests, they’d wind up carrying a ton of fat. A ten pound muscle gain with some added fat is VERY GOOD for a year. After the third or fourth year, the gains will come in freaking ounces or GRAMS per month, if that. There might even be some months after that time, where NOTHING happens for a natural, just little drips and drabs of gains here and there. So big caloric increases will not force a gain faster.
I think 1 gram of protein per pound is enough and beyond that, whether calories for growth from carbs or fats isn’t such a big deal, so long as there’s about 100 gram of carbs per day. I don’t think specific carbohydrate and fat amounts to make up calories is a big deal. So for me, it’s total protein amount, total caloric amount, small amount of EFA’s per day, and fruits and veggies. I made my diet excessively miserable in the past with stiff, tightassed nutrient prescriptions. If you need 4,000 calories to grow and 1,000 come from pizza, or a smaller amount from an ice cream desert, it’s not a “cheat” so long as protein and caloric need are followed for the day. If you like a stiffer, more boring and laborious way of going about bulking, that’s fine. I just think this shit should enjoyable at this point.
[/quote]
I think calories vs fat matter significantly for some people (me). I’m eating more calories now than at the beginning of my leaning out, and I’m still getting leaner. I’m up 6 or so pounds from my lightest on the “cut” and I’ve gotten more vascular.
I think for many people it doesn’t matter. For some people it matters a lot.
For much of my “cut” I only had 2 diet macro rules. A minimum amount of protein and a maximum amount of carbs. No limit of calories, fat, or protein.[/quote]
Eat a little above maintenance and adjust accordingly. Gaining 1-2 lbs a month by weighing yourself daily and taking the average is how I will continue to gain lean mass. I will cut when I am dieting down for a show. [/quote]
Also, I haven’t heard anyone tell someone to gain much more than 3-5lbs per month and basing this all on the gains seen.
Someone starting earlier with great genetics may see more than that so it is also about NOT holding back progress to hold to some specific number range.
If your body is ready to grow 5lbs and you only feed it enough for 2, you will hold yourself back.[/quote]
5lbs a month for a natural is ridiculous.
a naturals body is never ready to grow 5lbs of muscle a month unless its a contest rebound. realistically after your 1st you would be gaining on average 0.5-1lb of muscle a month. then by the time you get to your 3rd-4th year of serious training would be putting on about 1lb of muscle every 2 months.
Truthfully, there aren’t such things as empty calories. I guess one can say foods that are calorically dense but not nutritively dense provide empty calories, but most people don’t eat a diet solely of those foods.
[/quote]
I always assumed the term “empty calories” referred to things like sugary juices of alcohol.
Things that had calories but were not going to positively effect body comp.
[quote]Ripsaw3689 wrote:
I’m never going to “bulk” again. The only thing that did was leave me with a ton of work to cut back down. Don’t listen to fat, strong guys if you have any desire for a respectable physique. Listen to the big, lean guys because well, they are big and lean.
Eat a little above maintenance and adjust accordingly. Gaining 1-2 lbs a month by weighing yourself daily and taking the average is how I will continue to gain lean mass. I will cut when I am dieting down for a show. [/quote]
But…what happens if the big lean guys didn’t get big enough?[/quote]
Then you keep going. Trying to force feed growth beyond how fast your body can genetically build it will only lead to fat gain. It’s not a point of contention no matter how much you want it to be.
If your body is ready to grow 5lbs and you only feed it enough for 2, you will hold yourself back.[/quote]
How have you figured out when your body is primed to gain 2 or 5 pounds of muscle in a specific time frame and how can you tell?
I assume–though wrongfully so–that your implied strategy is just gross overeating. I’ve asked your strategy before and we’re talking about others’ strategies here. Care to share yours… with some details that is?
[quote]Ripsaw3689 wrote:
I’m never going to “bulk” again. The only thing that did was leave me with a ton of work to cut back down. Don’t listen to fat, strong guys if you have any desire for a respectable physique. Listen to the big, lean guys because well, they are big and lean.
Eat a little above maintenance and adjust accordingly. Gaining 1-2 lbs a month by weighing yourself daily and taking the average is how I will continue to gain lean mass. I will cut when I am dieting down for a show. [/quote]
But…what happens if the big lean guys didn’t get big enough?[/quote]
Then you keep going. Trying to force feed growth beyond how fast your body can genetically build it will only lead to fat gain. It’s not a point of contention no matter how much you want it to be.
S[/quote]
Stu, how far off do you usually stay from contest weight? I’m thinking of trying to hover at 200 lbs before I prep down to middleweight.
Here, this is a good way to bulk…Remember to lift heavy!!!
Breakfast-
7 eggs(free range from my farm)
4 ounces of sausage
1/4 cup chopped onions
3 cups of skim milk
1/2 cup of salsa on my eggs
Lunch-
2 scoops of optimum nutrition whey protein
2 cups of skim milk
1 banana
3 tbsps of PB Natural
Dinner-
1 lb(raw) of ground beef with 1/4 cup diced onions
3/4 cups rice(1/2 cup of salsa mixed in)
2.5 tbsps sour cream
1/2 cup shredded cheese
3 cups of skim milk
[quote]Ripsaw3689 wrote:
I’m never going to “bulk” again. The only thing that did was leave me with a ton of work to cut back down. Don’t listen to fat, strong guys if you have any desire for a respectable physique. Listen to the big, lean guys because well, they are big and lean.
Eat a little above maintenance and adjust accordingly. Gaining 1-2 lbs a month by weighing yourself daily and taking the average is how I will continue to gain lean mass. I will cut when I am dieting down for a show. [/quote]
But…what happens if the big lean guys didn’t get big enough?[/quote]
Then you keep going. Trying to force feed growth beyond how fast your body can genetically build it will only lead to fat gain. It’s not a point of contention no matter how much you want it to be.
S[/quote]
Stu, how far off do you usually stay from contest weight? I’m thinking of trying to hover at 200 lbs before I prep down to middleweight.[/quote]
I don’t go above 200/205. I learned my lesson. Dropping fat is like gaining muscle; you can only do it at a certain rate or else you won’t be happy wit the results (either muscle loss or fat gain). Losing 20-25 lbs in 16-20 weeks allows me to really focus on muscle retention. IMO that’s where most competitors (or non-competitors) lose sight of the real goal.
[quote]stefan128 wrote:
Here, this is a good way to bulk…Remember to lift heavy!!!
Breakfast-
7 eggs(free range from my farm)
4 ounces of sausage
1/4 cup chopped onions
3 cups of skim milk
1/2 cup of salsa on my eggs
Lunch-
2 scoops of optimum nutrition whey protein
2 cups of skim milk
1 banana
3 tbsps of PB Natural
Dinner-
1 lb(raw) of ground beef with 1/4 cup diced onions
3/4 cups rice(1/2 cup of salsa mixed in)
2.5 tbsps sour cream
1/2 cup shredded cheese
3 cups of skim milk [/quote]
I’m like you at this point. I rather eat three or four flavorful, relatively large and calorically dense meals, over nibbling on 5 oz tuna, 1 cup rice, and 20 almonds 5 to 7 times a day.
[quote]stefan128 wrote:
Here, this is a good way to bulk…Remember to lift heavy!!!
Breakfast-
7 eggs(free range from my farm)
4 ounces of sausage
1/4 cup chopped onions
3 cups of skim milk
1/2 cup of salsa on my eggs
Lunch-
2 scoops of optimum nutrition whey protein
2 cups of skim milk
1 banana
3 tbsps of PB Natural
Dinner-
1 lb(raw) of ground beef with 1/4 cup diced onions
3/4 cups rice(1/2 cup of salsa mixed in)
2.5 tbsps sour cream
1/2 cup shredded cheese
3 cups of skim milk [/quote]
I’m like you at this point. I rather eat three or four flavorful, relatively large and calorically dense meals, over nibbling on 5 oz tuna, 1 cup rice, and 20 almonds 5 to 7 times a day. [/quote]
For the ones here who count macros is there a good program or website that you can just write in your food amounts and it work the macros and calories out for you or do you guys write it all down and work out the macros yourself?
I’m asking because I have never really kept a serious count of my macros and would like to experiment and see if I can get into top condition with the adding / subtracting X amount to the current base approach.
I imagine there must be some good online programs out there?
[quote]Angus1 wrote:
For the ones here who count macros is there a good program or website that you can just write in your food amounts and it work the macros and calories out for you or do you guys write it all down and work out the macros yourself?
I’m asking because I have never really kept a serious count of my macros and would like to experiment and see if I can get into top condition with the adding / subtracting X amount to the current base approach.
I imagine there must be some good online programs out there?[/quote]
I’m sure there are phone apps but I just look it up online.
Either online or on the packaging.
Nutrition data .
I usually eat the same things day to day so after a while you won’t need to look it up because you will know.
I write mine down in a notebook.
I’m sure a spreadsheet would work great for that actually.
[quote]Angus1 wrote:
For the ones here who count macros is there a good program or website that you can just write in your food amounts and it work the macros and calories out for you or do you guys write it all down and work out the macros yourself?
I’m asking because I have never really kept a serious count of my macros and would like to experiment and see if I can get into top condition with the adding / subtracting X amount to the current base approach.
I imagine there must be some good online programs out there?[/quote]
Fit Day is my favorite. There are also nutrition software programs you can buy. Just google “nutrition calculator software” or “nutrition calculator applications”.
[quote]Angus1 wrote:
For the ones here who count macros is there a good program or website that you can just write in your food amounts and it work the macros and calories out for you or do you guys write it all down and work out the macros yourself?
I’m asking because I have never really kept a serious count of my macros and would like to experiment and see if I can get into top condition with the adding / subtracting X amount to the current base approach.
I imagine there must be some good online programs out there?[/quote]
I use MyFitnessPal and love it. It has a built-in bar code scanner which is very handy. It will also remember foods you eat frequently or have eaten recently.
