Building Muscle without 'Bodybuilding'?

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
Without sounding like a jerk, if you were eating well enough, and training hard enough, (even if the martial arts work was digging into tour recovery), while you wouldn’t be huge, I imagine you would at least have a somewhat muscular appearance (I was pretty cut up at 150 lbs from martial arts, running and lifting, when I dropped the 1st two, I started growing).

Most guys who can’t make gains overestimate how much they eat, as well as how hard they train. Just like most ‘intermediate’ bodybuilders underestimate their bodyfat levels -lol.

S
[/quote]

I still don’t get how someone can truly think they are eating enough if their weight doesn’t change or they even drop weight.

How do you miss something that basic? What do they think is happening if their is no change in weight at all? That all of their fat is somehow magically changing into muscle at a perfect ration of in:out so their weight remains constant?

If people don’t understand the absolute basic concept of weight gain/loss, how the hell can they expect to make any significant long term progress at all?

[quote]pf wrote:

  1. If you did 20 rep squats correctly there is NO WAY you would be able to then do a 2RM squat AND run home. You wouldn’t have been able to do either, walking to the dip/chin station should have been a struggle. You are not training as hard as you think you are. Sure the volume may be there but your intensity is obviously lacking.

  2. Are you still a teenager? It may explain your insaitable appetite.[/quote]

Great post.

I have trouble walking to the car after training legs…yet these people are able to run the fuck home?

Do they think we are exaggerating or just half assing it when we say our legs are fried after training?

I mean, damn I just made a thread about this.

If you can finish your leg day, walk outside the gym and the first thing that pops to mind is, “Wow, what a great day for a 3 mile jog!!!”…then you SUCK at intensity.

LOL

[quote]tektools wrote:

2. I don’t know, I condition pretty hard in BJJ so to keep up the intesnsity on the off days I train pretty dang hard with weights too. Ross Enamait (sp) types of stuff. Circuits. MMA / BJJ type conditioning.

Stuff to make usual gym-goers jaw’s drop

  1. I’ve been slacking on the weight training a bit, yes. But I do train weights HARD.


[/quote]

If everyone around you in the gym is staring at your while you do some “crazy” workout, 9 times out of 10 it doesn’t mean they are impressed.

It means they are embarrassed for you, and they’re wondering what in gods name you are doing.

You could strap jumper cables to your nipples and electrocute yourself, and people would stare at you, and it would be “intense” and “HARD”, but that doesn’t mean its the right way to build muscle.

[quote] Then pumped myself full of sugar, protien. 45 minutes or so later ate massive amounts of wholegrain organic pasta, broccoli and chicken breast.

It all seems to disappear though.

[/quote]

Disappear?

Have you checked the toilet??

[quote]tektools wrote:
I don’t bodybuild, but I think I should have a body.

[/quote]

Mabey you should consider that what you think isn’t relevant, and your clearly are doing something wrong no matter how hard you protest you are not.

LOL

You know coming to think of it the few times my jaw drops in the gym is when someone is doing some sort of monkey antics while taking himself very seriously…

[quote]Professor X wrote:
pf wrote:

  1. If you did 20 rep squats correctly there is NO WAY you would be able to then do a 2RM squat AND run home. You wouldn’t have been able to do either, walking to the dip/chin station should have been a struggle. You are not training as hard as you think you are. Sure the volume may be there but your intensity is obviously lacking.

  2. Are you still a teenager? It may explain your insaitable appetite.

Great post.

I have trouble walking to the car after training legs…yet these people are able to run the fuck home?

Do they think we are exaggerating or just half assing it when we say our legs are fried after training?

I mean, damn I just made a thread about this.

If you can finish your leg day, walk outside the gym and the first thing that pops to mind is, “Wow, what a great day for a 3 mile jog!!!”…then you SUCK at intensity.[/quote]

x 1 million

OP, you say that all the food you eat goes to fat and not muscle (which I’d have to agree with others is likely a vast exaggeration). Well, the reason is likely what X mentions above. You think you are training intensely when it comes to the weights, but in reality you have no idea what intensity is.

I think this goes back to X’s “sweating” in the gym post.

OP - what were you squating on your 20 rep breathing squats? Just so we can all have a frame of reference.

I would also like to know what makes a normal gym goers jaw drop. We need specifics so we can help.

wow macaroni, you atrophied quite a bit since i last saw you ahha

I’m confused

How do you slack and train hard at the same time?

I can never get full enjoyment out of a set of 20 rep breathing squats without doing a round or two of shadow boxing between each rep, then finishing up with a brisk 45 minute run at the end (for the sake of heart health)…

When I get home, I’ll gorge on chicken breasts and lettuce, maybe round off a very productive day with an hour or two of P90X.

I like to call my system ‘The Art of Bodybuilding Without Bodybuilding’.

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Professor X wrote:
pf wrote:

  1. If you did 20 rep squats correctly there is NO WAY you would be able to then do a 2RM squat AND run home. You wouldn’t have been able to do either, walking to the dip/chin station should have been a struggle. You are not training as hard as you think you are. Sure the volume may be there but your intensity is obviously lacking.

  2. Are you still a teenager? It may explain your insaitable appetite.

Great post.

I have trouble walking to the car after training legs…yet these people are able to run the fuck home?

Do they think we are exaggerating or just half assing it when we say our legs are fried after training?

I mean, damn I just made a thread about this.

If you can finish your leg day, walk outside the gym and the first thing that pops to mind is, “Wow, what a great day for a 3 mile jog!!!”…then you SUCK at intensity.

x 1 million

OP, you say that all the food you eat goes to fat and not muscle (which I’d have to agree with others is likely a vast exaggeration). Well, the reason is likely what X mentions above. You think you are training intensely when it comes to the weights, but in reality you have no idea what intensity is.[/quote]

Here’s a real life example of what you are doing – This guy comes up to me at the college gym while I’m deadlifting. Nice guy, don’t know him from Adam though. Asks me a couple questions on deadlifting, training, asks me to show him the proper deadlift form. I say Ok, I’ll do it, show up at _____ and I’ll show you how to do DLs. That goes ok, he tries, gets things mostly right.

A few weeks later he comes to me and wants me to train him. Says I obviously know what I’m doing, and the way I lift weights is “inspiring”. Says he’s lifting “really, REALLY hard” but he’s never been able to break 170 lbs bodyweight. I tell him “ok, but on the condition you show up, don’t bitch, and do what I tell you no matter what”. He agrees.

1st day is back and bench-- Kroc rows are up–I tell him to get out a dumbbell to warm up on, he gets out the [u]20s[/u]. I’m think “ok…”. We do a set. I tell him, “you are going to go up in weight, doing sets of 10 every time until the top set” He wants to go 20, 25, 30, 35. Grunting, everything.

I tell him to grab a bigger dumbbell. He brings back the 40s. I say that’s not big enough, go higher. He brings back the 45s. I tell him “go grab the 70s”. He looks at me like I’ve got 3 heads " I can’t lift that much". I say, “do it anyways”.

He knocks out 10 good reps at 70 lbs. Looks at me wide eyed and says “that’s incredible, I’ve never lifted that much before!” And I say “that’s because you weren’t training hard before, you just THOUGHT you were”.

Over the summer he puts on 20 lbs of muscle and breaks 190.

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
Professor X wrote:
pf wrote:

  1. If you did 20 rep squats correctly there is NO WAY you would be able to then do a 2RM squat AND run home. You wouldn’t have been able to do either, walking to the dip/chin station should have been a struggle. You are not training as hard as you think you are. Sure the volume may be there but your intensity is obviously lacking.

  2. Are you still a teenager? It may explain your insaitable appetite.

Great post.

I have trouble walking to the car after training legs…yet these people are able to run the fuck home?

Do they think we are exaggerating or just half assing it when we say our legs are fried after training?

I mean, damn I just made a thread about this.

If you can finish your leg day, walk outside the gym and the first thing that pops to mind is, “Wow, what a great day for a 3 mile jog!!!”…then you SUCK at intensity.

x 1 million

OP, you say that all the food you eat goes to fat and not muscle (which I’d have to agree with others is likely a vast exaggeration). Well, the reason is likely what X mentions above. You think you are training intensely when it comes to the weights, but in reality you have no idea what intensity is.

Here’s a real life example of what you are doing – This guy comes up to me at the college gym while I’m deadlifting. Nice guy, don’t know him from Adam though. Asks me a couple questions on deadlifting, training, asks me to show him the proper deadlift form. I say Ok, I’ll do it, show up at _____ and I’ll show you how to do DLs. That goes ok, he tries, gets things mostly right.

A few weeks later he comes to me and wants me to train him. Says I obviously know what I’m doing, and the way I lift weights is “inspiring”. Says he’s lifting “really, REALLY hard” but he’s never been able to break 170 lbs bodyweight. I tell him “ok, but on the condition you show up, don’t bitch, and do what I tell you no matter what”. He agrees.

1st day is back and bench-- Kroc rows are up–I tell him to get out a dumbbell to warm up on, he gets out the [u]20s[/u]. I’m think “ok…”. We do a set. I tell him, “you are going to go up in weight, doing sets of 10 every time until the top set” He wants to go 20, 25, 30, 35. Grunting, everything.

I tell him to grab a bigger dumbbell. He brings back the 40s. I say that’s not big enough, go higher. He brings back the 45s. I tell him “go grab the 70s”. He looks at me like I’ve got 3 heads " I can’t lift that much". I say, “do it anyways”.

He knocks out 10 good reps at 70 lbs. Looks at me wide eyed and says “that’s incredible, I’ve never lifted that much before!” And I say “that’s because you weren’t training hard before, you just THOUGHT you were”.

Over the summer he puts on 20 lbs of muscle and breaks 190. [/quote]

I have hundreds of stories like that.

Nearly every single person I have EVER worked in an exercise with (meaning I needed that machine/bench but they were on it so I asked if I could work in) has somehow been able to lift more than they ever have if I push them to.

It shows most people in most gyms (and even on this site considering how many claimed they don’t sweat while lifting) do NOT push their limits when they train. they are just going through the motions.

It makes the cry of “steroids” every time they see someone bigger just make them look even more pathetic.

[quote]tektools wrote:
Aragorn wrote:
tektools wrote:
Don’t have a pic, but my body looks quiet normal 9 to 5’er

Bit of a gut, nothing really standsout.

Problem is I train and lift.

I do Brazillian Jiu Jitsu with a crazy conditioning workout at the beginning of each session (3 or so a week)

I also lift heavy on my days off. I powerlift too.

I eat massive amounts of food.

Even though my goals are mostly strength and function related, do you body builders think I should at least have something after all this work?

No.

your body is a direct result of the shit you put into it. If you put crappy food into it, you’ll reap a crappy body. You can’t out-train a bad diet, unless you’re willing to put in about 30 hours of training every week.

I’m also willing to bet

a) you’re not training nearly has hard as you think you are in lifting, and

b) you haven’t been weight training long enough to get results.

  1. lol @ my diet being crap, but sorry I forget to tell you how clean it is.

I avoid HFCS like the plague, in additon to all fast food, BAD fats, any processed food, soda, sweets, white flour, etc.

I do, however ingest massive amounts of clean food + tons of organic green vegetables.

All the food, however, seems to disappear and not pack on muscle.

  1. I don’t know, I condition pretty hard in BJJ so to keep up the intesnsity on the off days I train pretty dang hard with weights too. Ross Enamait (sp) types of stuff. Circuits. MMA / BJJ type conditioning.

Stuff to make usual gym-goers jaw’s drop

I usually end it with some cardio - maybe 20-30 minutes on a bike (lol-don’t ask) or treadmill. Don’t worry I get lots of glucose right after.

  1. I’ve been slacking on the weight training a bit, yes. But I do train weights HARD.

Ex. Yesterday I did heavy 20 rep (breathing squats) [If that’s not hard - I don’t know what IS!]
Then those rib-cage pullovers.

Than did about a 2 rep max squat.

Then pullups and dips.

Then ran home.

Then pumped myself full of sugar, protien. 45 minutes or so later ate massive amounts of wholegrain organic pasta, broccoli and chicken breast.

I’m stuffed as we speak. Just ate lunch at work and someone joked about how much I was eating.

It all seems to disappear though.

[/quote]

You didnt say anything that would even remotely make anyone here’s jaw drop.

20 rep sguats,Bring it. Try 4 sets of 30

Then You say after all this you pump yourself full of sugar and protien but you eat clean?Listen you need to pump yourself full of protien all day and your never gonna gain a bunch of weight and have a “Body” after doing BJJ hard and doing cardio.

Your not eating enough and your probably not eating enough of the right stuff.Your also probably not busting your ass in the gym like you think you are.

Sounds like you are confused in terms of goals. If you are bodybuilding the Jujitsu and eating crap will not help that goal.

So unless you like rolling around with other sweaty guys with your head in their crotch and eating anything that isn’t nailed down, get focused.

Get on a focused program and stop doing things that will reduce recovery time, increase body fat, and overall not contribute to your goals.

Remember, the things you are doing now are perfectly designed to produce the results you now have.

What you described tells me you’re in a caloric deficit all the live long day.

Tumbling around with other dudes, massive amounts of cardio…

That’s cool if that’s what you’re into but it’s not going to put on size, no way.

Don’t be scared of heavier stuff. It’s going to mean you’ll walk home instead of run, but fuck it. You just lifted some heavy shit.

But you’ll probably catch a lot of hell from the other dudes you let lay on top of you all sweaty and whatnot, but at least you’ll be putting on size.

I don’t know man, building a body just doesn’t seem in the cards for you, nothing wrong with that, it’s just not your thing.

Just like BJJ and biking for cardio (don’t ask!) and THEN running home for pure organics and wholegrains isn’t for me.

Problem that goes trough lots of threads is that most people generally don’t know how to train hard… They think they do but they don’t.

Heck I train hard and every time I try some freaky Poliquin shit I end up almost puking. :smiley:

You know what they say:
“Somewhere out there, there is a girl warming up with your max.” :wink:

[quote]tektools wrote:
I don’t bodybuild, but I think I should have a body.

Don’t have a pic, but my body looks quiet normal 9 to 5’er

Bit of a gut, nothing really standsout.

Problem is I train and lift.

I do Brazillian Jiu Jitsu with a crazy conditioning workout at the beginning of each session (3 or so a week)

I also lift heavy on my days off. I powerlift too.

I eat massive amounts of food.

Even though my goals are mostly strength and function related, do you body builders think I should at least have something after all this work?

[/quote]

this is why i post in Strength Sports

20 rep squats don’t count if there’s no weight on the bar.

id suggest ONE set of 20 for squats not four.

after the first set youre going to need to drop ATLEAST 2 plates off the bar in order to hit another 20 and thats if youre having a great leg day and ate a few vicodins and washed it down with a 6 pack of redbulls then youll probaly dump 2 more plates if not more. so if you started with 405, youre down to 225 for your 3rd set.

your final set will probaly be with the 25s or something because thats 60 reps so far, and if youve done them with any real kind of intensity, youre legs are dead and even doing bodyweight lunges would be a challenge.

go with one set, dont stop until you get trapped.