Build Muscle or Lose fat first?

Nutrition
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I just remember last time I attempted to drop body fat, I was having three meals, this time round I decided to include an additonal meal making it 4. Open to suggestions though and happy to make tweaks.

Please bare in mind, my calculations may be slightly off - have not been too strict with weighing my food all the time and may eat less or more of something, but I think in my brain im just keeping carbs below 20g and trying to eat as much protein as I can and then make slight adjustments depending on weight on the scale at the end of the week - could be doing this wrong tbf.

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I’m just trying to understand the thought process is all. Carbs are an energy source. Fats are an energy source. Protein is not traditionally an energy source: it’s building material. The body only uses protein as an energy source in dire circumstances, and it tends to be a pretty metabolically expensive process to do so (gluconeogensis).

So, you took away carbs (energy source). In their absence, you upped protein (building material). I’m wondering why you did that instead of upping fats (energy source). Typically, if I slash carbs, my fats come UP, so that I have an energy source. I HAVE run low fat, low carb, high protein, and it really wrecked havoc on my health.

See, I would, instead, focus on “eat as much protein as I NEED” rather than “as much as I can”. Like, sure, you COULD eat 500g a day
but why? For what reason? Why not, instead, eat as much as you NEED to keep muscle, and then dial the fats up and down as needed?

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63

Appreciate your input here! Makes a lot of sense.
I guess I need to work out how much protein I actually need and then fill the rest of my calories with fat. In my mind, I thought I did bump my fat higher than I normally would eat.

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Just to expand on @T3hPwnisher’s points, as you figure your numbers, protein and fats have thresholds.

Tons of debate around where that is for protein, but you’ll notice additional soreness and general not as awesomeness when you’re too low. The easy button is 1g per lbs of bodyweight; the generally accepted researched number is .82g/ lbs. to max all the muscle-building benefits of protein. Those numbers are close enough as to not make a practical difference, and 1g/ lbs is easy math. I also think there’s an absolute minimum, rather than just the relative number, but that’s just a me hypothesis and has no practical implication here.

Fats do all kinds of great things such as lubricate your joints and actually let you produce hormones, so that’s pretty cool. That minimum threshold seems to be around .3g/ lbs, although most natural folks seem to feel a little better slightly higher.

Fats are, additionally, an energetic nutrient, as are carbs. So you have a choice here: as one macro comes down, the other will have to somewhat (within the context of a total caloric deficit) fill its place. Carbs are a more available fuel source, which is both a pro and a con: you can more readily use it in your workouts
 and they tend to be a bit easier to overeat. Fats are more calorically dense and more readily stored (maybe), but also tend to be more satiating and, as mentioned above, are an essential macro in any case. There’s not a “right” answer here and I’d let workout performance determine.

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Ok haven’t read too much into others post I apologize if someone covered this but here’s my input

I don’t think you’re doing anything “wrong,” and I definitely don’t think you lack discipline. You’ve clearly built strength and stuck to training longer than most people ever do.

From the outside though, it looks like the issue isn’t effort, it’s timing and context. At around 24% body fat, insulin resistant, and already on TRT, continuing to push food to “build more muscle first” often stops working the way it does in leaner guys. In that situation, calories don’t partition very well, so you end up stronger but not noticeably leaner or more muscular.

The fact that carbs bloat you and keto feels better to you suggests your body isn’t handling nutrients efficiently right now, not that carbs are evil. It usually means insulin sensitivity is off, so the body isn’t deciding very well where incoming calories should go.

If it were me, I wouldn’t try to bulk more right now. I’d focus on a slow, controlled fat-loss phase with the goal of improving insulin sensitivity and body composition first. Not a crash diet, not extreme keto, just a small deficit, high protein, and being strategic with carbs, mainly around training.

I’d also expect some short-term strength loss and be okay with that. That doesn’t mean you’re losing muscle, it’s mostly glycogen and leverage. Once body fat comes down, nutrient partitioning usually improves, and building muscle after that tends to work better instead of feeling like you’re spinning your wheels.

So my advice would be: lean down first, train more for hypertrophy than pure powerlifting while you do it, then reassess once body fat is lower. It’s not stepping backwards, it’s setting up the next phase to actually work.

“Fitness isn’t about being better than someone else. It’s about being better than you used to be.”

You’re a big, strong dude and you didn’t get there by accident. This is just about refining the next phase, not tearing down what you’ve built.

Anyone feel free to correct me where I’m wrong and enlighten me where I lack insight!!

Oh yeah and go get it!! train hard!! win easy!!!

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66

@TrainForPain, @Acappital - Greatly appreciate your inputs here too!

Definitely finding im taking longer to recover between training days, not sure if its cos im concentrating on 1 rpms, current plan is essentially 1rpm exercise, 80% and 60% of that weight for AMRAP and then a 20 minute circuit to keep conditioning up, training 3x a week.

I thought of dropping my protein a little lower, and increase my fat.

Weighed intoday at 85.65kg if I double that and keep that for my protein intake lets round it off to:

Protein 175g

Carbs 20g

Fats 190g
That puts me at 2500 calories

I think I have done this a little wrong, I should have figured out what my maintenance calories were before jumping into this all, so thats my bad.

if I calculate the food I have been eating to date its been hovering between 2500 -2600 cals and it looks like im dropping body weight, however, im trying to preserve as much muscle as I can too.

Somethings telling me those calories are too less or am I just overthinking things and just stick to this for now and see how my body looks in a couple of weeks?

Also, thoughts on cheat meals or carb re feeds? Needed or not?

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If you’re already having trouble recovering, and primarily concerned with muscle retention, I wouldn’t be looking to drop protein.

How rapidly are you dropping weight? Most of us over-worry about dumping all our muscle when we start to lose weight when we need to just trust the process: lift weights and consume protein.

How long have you been doing this type of training? If you change a bunch of variables at once, it’s hard to say which is a culprit. Did diet and training change in pretty much the same timeframe?

As all things, context dependent. You’re certainly not at a point where you need them physiologically. How hard is it for you to stick to your diet right now?

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So I was training like this way before I decided to cut.

Tomorrow will be 4 weeks exact since I have been eating this way.

Started 88kg

Now 85.65Kg

I can stick to the way I am eating now but just bored with the food choices..I’m struggling with energy at the gym too but mainly when I get to my circuit which isn’t the end of the world as that is purely for conditioning and nothing else.

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Here are 59 ways to cook eggs

42 ways to cook a burger

24 ways to cook a chicken

You won’t be bored

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70

You’re losing weight at about the pace I’d expect, so I’d ride that out.

If your lifts aren’t dropping significantly, I’d posit you are recovering between sessions.

You’re not really doing carbs; timing those would have been my first answer to the fatiguing conditioning. You may still be adapting to the diet or the conditioning is just plain hard. Everything is headed the right direction (losing weight, lifts are fine, and you can sustain the deficit), though, so I don’t really see a need to react to anything.

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Dang! I needed this post like a month ago!

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Monday 29/12/2025 - start of my 5th week on this cut

Starting weight 88kg

Weight - 86.80kg

2nd week of my cut I weighed in at 86.5 and since then looks like im hovering around this number. Lowest I was 85.65 which was a few days ago.

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Doesnt look like I look any leaner.

Lifts are still strong..

Thoughts?

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Why don’t you start a log so we can see exactly what your doing training/diet wise on a daily basis.
Have you figured out your maintenance cals?
You’ve lost about 3 lbs. in the last 4 weeks. That’s good progress. Slow and steady. Not really gonna be able to notice that though. Once in the 8-10lb range you’ll start to see a difference.

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This is going to sound really stupid
 when you say start a log, do you just mean post daily, food, training etc etc on this same post?

Also, I have not figured out my maintenance calories
 Im sure I noted in previous posts that I just started off on a low carb diet and was planning on adjusting where needed - appreciate this approach might be BS.

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75

Yes, here is my log. Your welcome to use it as a template. I update it on training days but for you I would recommend everyday so we can see what non training days look like as well.

Well if your eating 2500cals daily and your confident in those numbers then since you are losing about .75lbs/wk your eating just below maint which is perfect for now. We can make adjustments as needed.
How are you getting to 2500cals daily? Are you weighing/measuring?

Start a new thread in the training logs section and tag a couple of us that have been with you on this thread so we can find your new log.
@TrainForPain
@T3hPwnisher
@s.gentz

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76

Ok so your doing ,

1RM work (very high CNS fatigue)

80% AMRAP (close to failure, lots of muscle damage)

60% AMRAP (volume fatigue)

20-minute conditioning circuit (systemic stress)

Ur testing your strength then punishing your muscles, then draining glycogen, three times a week.

1RM alone taxes the nervous system more than the muscles and increases recovery time even if volume is low now add AMRAPs, Conditioning, and Low carbs
well guess what my friend slower recovery makes total sense
no mystery here.

You’re eating:~2500–2600 kcal and losing bodyweight that tells us one thing clearly: :backhand_index_pointing_right: That’s below maintenance for you right now.So no, calories are not “too low” in theory.

They are too low for the goal of preserving muscle while hammering 1RM work.

Fat loss + maximal strength + conditioning + low carbs is a bold combo. Yeah ur recoverys will be crap sorry to say I believe some other homies suggested to maybe make some adjustments but not all at the same time if you want to figure out the culprit anyway I’ll get to that in a moment I’m just going through your post and wanna hit on some other points

You said ur current diet plan was

Protein: 175g
 that’s good

Carbs: 20g carbs ..that’s pretty low

Fat: 190g
 very high

Are you doing doing a keto + powerlifting + conditioning.

Can it work? Yeah it is possible but why be so hard on the body?

So here’s what my opinion is. AMRAPs, Conditioning,Recovery 
while wanting to preserve muscle in a deficit I just don’t think it’s the best game plan for you broski not unless unless you’re very adapted and volume is lower.

And low carbs means

Poor glycogen replenishment

Slower recovery between sessions

AMRAPs feel worse every week

CNS fatigue feels heavier

Like I said you most likely going to feel shitty ..As for wanting muscle preservation
bro

You’re already doing the most important thing your eating enough protein that alone preserves a lot of muscle. but
 being in a calorie deficit + low carbs + high fatigue training increaseing the risk of

Flat muscles

Performance drop

Longer recovery gaps

I’m not saying your muscles are going to disappear next week .. what I’m saying is the environment isn’t ideal brotha
 Are you overthinking it? Maybe a little but yo not in a bad way. We know ur already in a deficit cuz u say ur losing some kg’s and recovery is slowing
muscle preservation is still mostly protected don’t worry ..no need to do anything to drastic maybe if we just adjust one dial, not all of them of course your current plan is asking ur body to do three hard things at once and noticing it’s slower to bounce back..

I honestly think ur slightly under-fueling for how intense training is..i mean you can stick with it short-term if you want, but performance and recovery will eventually demand adjustment I believe you have the ability and determination to succeed at what ever you decide to do!!! If you are willing maybe consider whether the priority is fat loss or performance, and like a few other brothers mentioned 
adjust one variable at a time
and stay focused bud let’s get past the “Am I doing this wrong?” and get to the " Ok I know what to change if this happens " 
you got this man don’t give up
You’re doing the hard part most people avoid: thinking..so props to you ..the fact ur asking these questions means ur already ahead!!

TRAIN HARD , WIN EASY!!!

“It is not the strongest of the species that survives, but the one most responsive to change."

                           -Charles Darwin
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77

@s.gentz - Thank you so much for the template! Im going to look into this shortly to document my journey.

@Acappital - once again thanks for the encourging words, they go such a long way! Appreciate you bro!

My program currently is heavily based around strength and conditioning. The exercises, reps sets etc change each time I fail on a exercise.

So I punched in all my food for today into my fitness pal - as mentioned before I was not properly tracking
 I know thats a recipe for disaster
 But here is what I got..

Today:
Meal 1 - 6 medium whole eggs 1tbsp butter - 610 Cals

Meal 2 - 6 medium whole eggs 1tbsp butter - 610 Cals

Meal 3 - 300g Chicken breast 1 tsp olive oil - 400 Cals

Meal 4 - 300g Chicken Thigh with Skin - 642 cals

Total Cals - 2,262

P - 205, F - 130g, C - 5g

Most days if not all, I eat a full avacado with my last meal which bumps my cals to 2562 but I just didnt have any today.

The above is what I eat day in and day out. Sometimes change my last meal to a 250g steak with Avacado.

The three biggest reasons for wanting to do low carb / keto was:

To help with insulin sensitivity, parents are both diabetic, and my blood sugars were creeping up.

Carbs seem to bloat to me and I hate that feeling.

Lastly, due to having low SHBG, thought a low carb diet could help bring the numbers up.

But..I think it might be psychological too
 I just don’t know why I have it in my head that cutting carbs is the only way to get leaner


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78

This depends on the type and amount of carbs your eating

IMO if your not going to continue to eat 0-low carb when done dieting than this is not the best move. I would move toward a fixed protien diet based on lean body mass with 1.25g per lb of lean body mass, fats at .3 to .35g per lb of lean body mass and then fill carbs to mee caloric goals.
I personally have a very difficult time eating 0 carbs. Everything suffers.

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For the record, @s.gentz’s numbers (assuming it’s .3-.35x of fats) tend to be my preferred as well.

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80

Fixed the OP. :slightly_smiling_face:

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