Bruce Lee's Stats?

Off Topic
41

Bruce Lee was definitely one of the most influential martial artists of all time. He was really quick and had awesome strength for a guy his size.

I still don’t get the point when people talk about if he competed in MMA. Lee never trained for sport, he trained for actual combat. If you read Bruce Lee’s fighting method vol 1, you would see he uses kicks to the knee, headbutts, finger jabs, etc moves which are illegal in MMA. His influence of cross training tho was way ahead of time in terms of not being glued to one martial art

42

Yeah yeah, Bruce Lee was pretty strong blah blah… the caveat that must be added here was for his size. Good speed, good explosive power vs weight ratio.

However, where is the documentation of his real lifts, i read his upper body strength was awesome (for size), and his lower body strength was fair/below average.

If, like all the fanboys claim, that Bruce was some kindof supernatural being, nobody can really provide the following info:

His Powerlifting total
His O-Lifting Totals
His 40 and 110 yard dash.
His mile run time (best i heard was 6.5mins)

Is he stronger than Naim Suleymanoglu?
Could he beat Shamrock in a fight?
Could he sprint 100 faster than Carl Lewis?

No… No… and No.

The Olympic games we see amazing performances every day, and usually there’s a hell of a lot less self promotion and crap about Chi involved.

My final words on Bruce:

He was a decent martial artist come Hollywood actor.
His best chance of winning anything would have been in a Mr Puniverse contest.
He died… age 33 of edema. Largely from drug use and being like 1% bodyfat.

I put it much more simply from that, he died from Anorexia.

Some hero.

43

[quote]perseng wrote:
My final words on Bruce:

He was a decent martial artist come Hollywood actor.
His best chance of winning anything would have been in a Mr Puniverse contest.
He died… age 33 of edema. Largely from drug use and being like 1% bodyfat.

I put it much more simply from that, he died from Anorexia.

Some hero.[/quote]

This should be posted everytime the Bruce freaks start a thread. Excellent.

44

[quote]perseng wrote:
Yeah yeah, Bruce Lee was pretty strong blah blah… the caveat that must be added here was for his size. Good speed, good explosive power vs weight ratio.

However, where is the documentation of his real lifts, i read his upper body strength was awesome (for size), and his lower body strength was fair/below average.

If, like all the fanboys claim, that Bruce was some kindof supernatural being, nobody can really provide the following info:

His Powerlifting total
His O-Lifting Totals
His 40 and 110 yard dash.
His mile run time (best i heard was 6.5mins)

Is he stronger than Naim Suleymanoglu?
Could he beat Shamrock in a fight?
Could he sprint 100 faster than Carl Lewis?

No… No… and No.

The Olympic games we see amazing performances every day, and usually there’s a hell of a lot less self promotion and crap about Chi involved.

My final words on Bruce:

He was a decent martial artist come Hollywood actor.
His best chance of winning anything would have been in a Mr Puniverse contest.
He died… age 33 of edema. Largely from drug use and being like 1% bodyfat.

I put it much more simply from that, he died from Anorexia.

Some hero.[/quote]

LOL.

45

[quote]perseng wrote:

His mile run time (best i heard was 6.5mins)[/quote]

I can run faster than Bruce Lee. Wait until I tell all my friends…

46

I think perseng’s post lends credance to my theory that Functional Strength = Manorexia

47

Please no one ever post that David Carradine was a martial arts star again.Please.

48

Bruce Lee was well more than a DECENT martial artist. He wasn’t like Van Damme, some figment of Hollywoods imagination. He had won contact tournaments all over the world and constantly had to prove himself because the thought was he was a “studio gangster.” He wasn’t. Would he get beat by Shamrock or anyother heavyweight? Most definately. You don’t put a volkswagon against a mack truck. Would I put my money on him against anybody in his weight class? Every last fuckin’ penny.

Check the books before you start talkin out of your ass.

49

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Please no one ever post that David Carradine was a martial arts star again.Please.[/quote]

LMAO

50

I see that the arm chair martial arts contingent is still here. It doesn’t surprise me that some of the most vocal critics of Lee have no martial arts background other than watching it on tv.

It also doesn’t surprise me that some of the fans of Lee are on a bandwagon but don’t entirely know why it is that he is so impressive.

The one inch punch is a good example of this. The film of the one inch punch is like a finger pointing at the moon. Some of you are looking at the finger and saying it’s insignificant others are looking at the finger and saying wow. But most, if not all of you are missing the moon.

To see the moon in this case you don’t need to be a martial artist (like most of the audience at Ed Parkers Long Beach international karate tournament) but it helps.

One inch punch is not a parlor trick.
It is the demonstration of basic martial arts principals, that most arts teach to white belts.

Here is an impressive statistic about Lee. Enter the Dragon was released 1 month after he died. It’s world wide earnings are over $90,000,000. It is one of Warner Brothers top ten grossing films. Very few people have ever generated that kind of money after they have died.

That kind of money is a good reason to not want to waste your time getting your head knocked in going to tournaments. That’s what students are for.

Historically in martial arts, one of the primary measures of a martial artist is their students.

World heavyweight champion Joe Lewis trained with Lee. Lee just approached him one day and started telling him what he was doing wrong. Lewis thought to himself who is this little Chinese guy trying to tell me, a world champion what I am doing wrong.

Lee schooled Chuck Norris who was world heavyweight champion.

Lee failed his selective service physical, because he had an undescended testical. If Lee felt that he needed to be freaky huge to be able to fight he could have easily taken steroids but he didn’t. Bolo Yeung in Enter the Dragon was one of Lee’s students. So it’s not like he didn’t know where to find them and he didn’t have a good reason to take them.

The role of size and weight in a fight are in proportion to the rules. With almost no rules in the UFC and no weight classes Royce Gracie dominated for years at a bodyweight of 180 pounds. With no rules size can be irrelevant.

For a small person it is the “unsportsmanlike” techniques that are an equalizer.

I’m reminded of the story of when Lee had a delegation from Chinatown come into his school and challenge him to fight the toughest guy they could find. Right before they started Lee’s opponent (who was bigger)asked Lee what the rules for the fight were, Lee told him there were no rules eyes, knee it’s all fair then he proceeded to tear the guy up.

A lot of you guys who think you are experts need to take your pay per view money and spend it on joining a dojo.

51

More bullshit.

The one inch punch is not taught to “white belts”. Furthermore, Japanese arts in general do not teach the one inch punch. The only arts I can think of are Wing Chun, Xing Yi and the other internal chinese arts, and maybe some other Chinese styles.

But to expand on that, the one inch punch has nothing to do with strength. I have practiced Xing Yi myself, which is an internal martial art that focuses on hitting with the entire body. The one inch punch is a matter of aligning your skeletal system to put yourself in a more advantageous position. From there, you explode with your entire body. But in Xing Yi, the true one inch punch doesn’t “push” the target away, it hits them to do damage. Whether or not this is a realistic technique is another story.

Furthermore, a MMA fighter in Lee’s weight class would most definitely defeat him. It is very well documented that Gene Lebell beat Lee by simply tackling his 18 inch legs (minus the 18 inches bit). Bruce would easily be defeated by a well versed grappler. Also, Gene probably didn’t know half of what today’s submission wrestlers are capable of.

I hate to be so stern, but Bruce Lee doesn’t deserve any credit. He was an actor, but that is all.

52

Centering is an integral part of just about every martial art.

When I was a twelve year old white belt I learned my first form Sanchin which is an internal excercise that is taught in several Okinawan martial arts.

Okinawan martial arts are based on Chinese White Crane Kung Fu. The founder of the Isshinryu system that I’ve studied also trained in Xing Yi.

One inch punch is a demonstration of a set of basic principals that I teach my white belts. I don’t wait until a student is a black belt before I teach them how to do things right.

Just because your teachers didn’t teach you how do to it doesn’t mean I am full of shit. You just had stingy teachers.

53

You’re the exception then, not the rule. I learned about generating power without distance when I started. But that’s only natural, because it’s an internal martial art focusing on structure.

But traditional Karate usually does not get very indepth with that until the very advanced level.

54

First off. Wing Chun is not an “internal” martial art. I only got to spend a bit more then a year studying it. But not once did i hear a mention of “chi” or any other mystical nonsense. It was practical punches, knees and elbows. Taught in a practical and often painfull manner.

Also i think yet again you have missed the point of the one inch punch. Like the other guy said, Bruce was teaching a concept. I was taught it in wing chun, and it was used as an example in my early kyokushin experiences. To teach the concept though in the reverse punch situation.

the guy got beaten? quickly? guess what. It happens. No one ever said he was unbeatable. Retards. Respond to the data about the man. Not the attitudes of teenage boys who want to be him.

The guy was along time ago. He didnt have our methods or any of the data we have now. So you cant compare him to say Kosta Tszyu. If he was here now he would be studying EVERYTHING, he would probably even choose to bulk up. He would probably study BJJ.

Its so easy to dismiss someone who has achieved more then any of the people on this board simply because he was small. Its been over 30 years since his death and his movies are still being shown, his martial arts theories are still be taught, books sold, arguements are ongoing, and his philosophy is going to be quoted for years to come. What did you guys do? make it too 200 lbs?

A little rant =)

55

Every boxer knows how to throw a one inch punch intuitively. It’s simple body mechanics - you set your weight as you throw your punch, aligning the force of your body behind your strike. Bruce simply disguised this “setting his weight” very well.

Also, let’s not forget nearly every MMA practitioner is indebted to Lee. Modern JKD (and the nucleus) has taken on a very “MMA” philosophy. Dan Inosanto’s modern day teaching is a fusion of submission fighting, Muay Thai, kickboxing, western boxing, and groundfighting. Sound familiar? :slight_smile: Especially today, JKD practitioners who have embraced the philosophy, and aren’t hanging on to the Wing Chun or trying to mimic Lee himself (who would have adhored such a thing) can be/are effective MMA competitors.

56

[quote]Beatnik wrote:
But not once did i hear a mention of “chi” or any other mystical nonsense.[/quote]

Mystical nonsense? I don’t even want to get into a fight about different fighting styles, because I am sure some of you know more about the specifics of different styles, however I consider this concept, along with the ability to focus energy, one of the most valuable in martial arts training. Ridiculous? I suppose that depends on your individual concept of it. Do you believe in human spirit at all?

57

[quote]DLboy wrote:
…I hate to be so stern, but Bruce Lee doesn’t deserve any credit. He was an actor, but that is all.[/quote]

just an actor ?
according to your boy gene lebell he was the best martial artist of his time:

“Bruce is more famous now than he was when he was alive. He was an entertaining fellow who was very knowledgeable and very good at what he did. People may wonder just how good a martial artist Bruce Lee was. Well, as I said earlier, he was the best of his time. Also, many of his former students are doing very well today. That’s a sign that he was a good martial artist and that he was able to make his students into good martial artists.”-Gene LeBell

but i guess gene probably says that about a lot of people.

according to joe lewis, lee was one of thousands of “actors” who could be compared to ali:

" I never stood in front of another human who was a quick as him. He not only had the quickness but he had the inner confidence to muster the conviction to do so. I’ve seen others who had the speed but lack conviction or vice versa. He was like Ali, he had both.I stood before both of these men, so I know." -Joe Lewis

dude get real and give credit where credit is due.

58

Somebody mentioned “that chi nonsense” or something to that effect earlier…

Nonsense? Calling it nonsense is the simple minded individual’s way of saying if “I can’t understand it, it can’t be real”. Do some research on the nonsense filled monks of tibet.

You’ll find documentation of monks who used their nonsense to sleep in near 0 degree weather, while it snowed, on a mountainside wearing nothing but a near paper thin sheet of cotton. They woke in the morning, and used their nonsense abilities to dust the layer of snow off of themselves and walk back to their village.

This was all documented by I believe a National Geographic film crew… wearing all-out expedition gear. The same individuals could place a wet cloth on themselves… and after a minute or 2 of meditiation, created enough body heat to have dried the cloth. Hard to believe, yes. True, yes… very true.

Lesson to learned: Ignorance of a subject does not make it nonsense :slight_smile:

59

[quote]JammieBane wrote:
Somebody mentioned “that chi nonsense” or something to that effect earlier…

Nonsense? Calling it nonsense is the simple minded individual’s way of saying if “I can’t understand it, it can’t be real”. Do some research on the nonsense filled monks of tibet.

You’ll find documentation of monks who used their nonsense to sleep in near 0 degree weather, while it snowed, on a mountainside wearing nothing but a near paper thin sheet of cotton. They woke in the morning, and used their nonsense abilities to dust the layer of snow off of themselves and walk back to their village.

This was all documented by I believe a National Geographic film crew… wearing all-out expedition gear. The same individuals could place a wet cloth on themselves… and after a minute or 2 of meditiation, created enough body heat to have dried the cloth. Hard to believe, yes. True, yes… very true.

Lesson to learned: Ignorance of a subject does not make it nonsense :-)[/quote]

Very good post. I could care less about arguing about Bruce Lee. I think that act is stupid. But to degrade one of the major concepts in martial arts that even expands into different cultures is pure ignorance. Medical science still has not figured out everything about the human body. Because of that, I would never degrade many of these ancient concepts.

60

There are over a hundred meanings of the term Chi that can be translated from Chinese into English.

This the cause for a lot of misunderstanding in the western world over the term Chi. Chi is a broad term that it helps to have a basis in the culture to fully understand.

A persons physical strength can be considered a form of Chi. An artist painting a picture can be said to be using his creative Chi.

When translating from one language to another it is important to understand that this is not math where x=y. Some words can have important meaning in one culture but in another culture not have a direct equal counterpart.

I had a breif opportunity to train with some Xing Yi people. I’ve seen some slightly built Xing Yi people do some things I wouldn’t have expected them to do.

I don’t know enough about the Gene Lebelle matchup to comment on it directly, other than to say Lee obviously did test himself against different people. The only way you can lose a fight is to be putting yourself out there. Royce Gracie has lost two, it certainly doesn’t make him a punk.