Brown Test Enanthate?

Pharma
1


Alrighty folks, the $20,000 question;
Has anyone had their Testosterone Enanthate powder turn brown in storage?
I bought around 200g of it, looking to avoid repetitios/suspicious purchases/shipments
I brewed a fairly good amount and then triple sealed the remainder in three seperate ziplock baggies, one inside the other etc…

Whilst sitting in my safe, waiting to be brewed, my precious commodity melted and turned brownish. The “thickest” areas in the baggy were the darkest and lighter towards the edges.
Several people have told me that Test melting at room temperature is fairly normal and not to worry.

My question; After brewing, my Test is STILL brown now in liquid form, kinda like Tren.
In the picture you can see what I’m talking about. The beaker with the pale amber liquid is Freshly brewed Deca (YUMMY) and in the 30 ml vial is my “Brown Test Enan”
Being the sick and cheap bastard that I am, I plan to use this Test unless someone/something indicates that it may kill me, LOL.

2

Hey Tim-

I’ve seen test-e become brown-ish before, although not to quite that hue you have going on there! I’m with you…I believe once properly filtered, it’s worth a go. If you had any doubts, just try smaller dosages and ramp them up to guage whether you get any…“unwanted” sides…

3

or just take an ass load and make sure it works really well…i kid

i have seen this happen as well but never at that degree of severity, hopefully bill might chime in, i am wondering if excessive heating might be a part of this?? but i honestly can not say for sure.

4

I happen to, possibly, be in a unique position to be of assistance to here you here, Tim. I actually received a batch of test e that was already brown. The powder looked like brown sugar, actually. The more I mess around with powder, the more I see that test e, in particular, is one of the least stable powders in existence. Luckily for us, it appears that, while the powders color, smell, consistency, and even state of matter are all over the place, it does not appear to affect the integrity of the final product much at all. I went ahead and brewed the brown powder I had received (because why the hell not, right?), and I am happy to say that both I and a friend used a test e oil that pretty well resembled molasses, if thinner, and the result was all of the good stuff you expect from test e and none of the bad (I will admit I was a bit apprehensive after that first shot, though!). [<–disclaimer: I did not have potency checked in a lab, so all of this is hearsay, but at least it is hearsay by a couple of guys who know what to expect from a good test e cycle]

You are probably gtg, as they say.

I certainly would like to know what the cause of this is, however. When it was happening I was looking all over the damned net and found very, very little. Which is, ultimately, why I just said WTH and shot the syrup :wink:

Good luck, Tim. Hope I’m not giving you fatal advice ;D

5


Here’s a comparison shot for you, Tim.

Looking at it now, and having had both batches “tested” in “clinical trials,” I have to say that these two look pretty damn good together. Not quite Ebony and Ivory, but…Champagne and Chocolate, perhaps?

6

I don’t know, although my opinion is that testosterone enanthate itself will not turn brown; and in fact the color change indicates some substance present to have undergone a chemical change.

But what that substance is, I don’t know.

Pure testosterone enanthate would not have melted until 96 degrees F. Melting does not itself cause any permanent change, but in the liquid state degradation reactions will proceed much faster (if relevant at all, which shouldn’t be the case with testosterone enanthate itself, but could well be with an impurity.)

I don’t know whether there is any reasonable likelihood of your safe having gotten that warm.

If, as I would think is the case from what happened, impurity is present, that could lower the melting point.

In some cases a pretty intense color can result from a rather small amount of substance. It might be that the impurity is only a few percent of the total or it’s not inconceivable it could even be below 1%. I have no way of knowing if it’s harmless, since I have no idea what it is.

7

[quote]morepain wrote:
or just take an ass load and make sure it works really well…i kid

i have seen this happen as well but never at that degree of severity, hopefully bill might chime in, i am wondering if excessive heating might be a part of this?? but i honestly can not say for sure. [/quote]

Oxidization? I don’t know why test e, in particular, seems to be such a volatile powder, but I certainly would like to. Test prop is pretty damned stable, as is cyp, so why is an ester that is “between” those two so likely to melt, clump, change color, harder, crawl into your girlfriends panties, etc?

Are you around, Bill? I certainly would love to hear your thoughts on this.

EDIT: I see you are, indeed, around.

8

On the melting point: Cypionate is quite different from enanthate or propionate in that the latter are straight-chain alkyls – e.g., after the carbonyl carbon, CH2CH2CH2CH2CH2CH3 all in a row, whereas cypionate has a cyclopentane ring ending the ester chain.

Melting point is largely related to the energy (higher temperature supplies more energy) required to break the crystal lattice structure.

In most cases, as you add a straight-chain ester to a molecule, the ester chain sticking out there from the rest of the molecule interferes with how the molecules pack and thus produces a less tightly bound crystal structure, which will melt at lower temperature.

(At some point though, this reverses and, rather as a wax – which is comprised of long-chain alkyls – has a higher melting point than an oil, a yet-longer chain ester may have a higher melting point than an intermediate length one.)

Ring structures in the ester, however, tend to pack well and can result in higher melting points. This is why cypionate has a much higher melting point than enanthate “despite” having a similar number of carbons in the ester (it has one more.)

However, that effect is just in relation to the melting. In terms of chemical stability, they’re all stable.

9

Thanks Bill!

We sure appreciate your coming here and helping us make sense of all of this.

Of course, I’m going to have to reread all of this in the morning to attempt to make a bit more sense of it, myself!

:wink:

10

Bill, Cortes, thank you guys for the info. First of all it IS possible that my safe got to 96F.
It WAS over the summer that this occurred. As for all of the “Carboxylhydroalkylatedmethylhemotodes” I’m at a loss!! LOL, I’m a humble gas pipeline construction dude wih a LITTLE AAS knowledge, probably JUST enough to get myself in trouble!

I do appreciate the fact that Bill, you ARE trying to impart some knowledge into my antiquated old head, it’s just that at my age every time I learn something new, something old falls out and is lost forever! I’m only kidding, but some of this is plain over my head.
Though I have discerned from your writings that, if I’m correct; Test Enanthate “itself” will not discolor even under melting conditions. Therefore, there presumably is SOME form of impurity or another which is the culprit responsible for the discoloration.

NOW, I’ve brewed and USED this substance with great success prior to it’s chameleon-like performance. Should I be able to expect the same results “post-change”? I’m not the sharpest tool in the shed here, but I believe that you indicated that the test itself shouldn’t have degraded, but the impurity is to blaim?

11

I, being the ultimate guinea pig next to BBB, am going to inject a SMALL dose of my curiously brown testosterone into some or another bodypart, probably a quad as they are pretty forgiving to me and monitor the injection site for abnormalities. If no anomolies raise their ugly heads I will increase the next dose slightly etc, etc… until I’m up to full dosage and at that point I should be able to tell what’s going on, through bloodwork and actual physical condition. The ONLY other possible solution apparent to me would be to have a sample tested and I’m not really that “lab savvy” or know wher to take it!
I’m talking 100+ grams here and am not prepared to throw it away unless it’s proven useless/dangerous.

12

[quote]timhlbrk wrote:
Bill, Cortes, thank you guys for the info. First of all it IS possible that my safe got to 96F.
It WAS over the summer that this occurred. As for all of the “Carboxylhydroalkylatedmethylhemotodes” I’m at a loss!! LOL, I’m a humble gas pipeline construction dude wih a LITTLE AAS knowledge, probably JUST enough to get myself in trouble!

I do appreciate the fact that Bill, you ARE trying to impart some knowledge into my antiquated old head, it’s just that at my age every time I learn something new, something old falls out and is lost forever! I’m only kidding, but some of this is plain over my head.[/quote]

Really the reason I mentioned the stuff about the ester chains is because other authors have decided to write some wrong stuff on the topic. If they had never written those errors, then there wouldn’t have been quite reasonable wondering about why cypionate being (from those authors) between propionate and enanthate would act so differently in terms of how it melts.

There is no practical use to the knowledge except if actually concerned with deciding what ester or esters to try putting onto a molecule.

From the practical standpoint, just knowing the enanthate can melt easily while cypionate doesn’t is plenty good enough.

[quote]Though I have discerned from your writings that, if I’m correct; Test Enanthate “itself” will not discolor even under melting conditions. Therefore, there presumably is SOME form of impurity or another which is the culprit responsible for the discoloration.

NOW, I’ve brewed and USED this substance with great success prior to it’s chameleon-like performance. Should I be able to expect the same results “post-change”? I’m not the sharpest tool in the shed here, but I believe that you indicated that the test itself shouldn’t have degraded, but the impurity is to blaim?[/quote]

That’s my conclusion. Not a proven fact but I do very strongly expect that that is the case.

So as to whether it has become harmful in any way, that would depend if the impurity is converted to something which is problematic. I really have no idea whether that is so or not, not knowing what it is.

13

Bill, Thank you so much for taking the time to try and help me.
It comforts me a great deal to know that I/we have someone with so much knowledge available to us and “in our corner” so to speak.

14

Glad to be of any help.

15

Bill, would you say that the powder form of AAS are more “stable” in the long run? For instance, lets say I had a bunch of powder should I make all of it, or keep it in the freezer until I am ready to use it.

16

Tim and Cortes, funny this thread should come up because I’ve just recently had the exact same problem too. And now that Bill’s commented on possible impurities causing the discolouration I wonder if we might’ve all got our powder from the same batch (same supplier)? I think that testing is going to be looked into…

JR

17

Apparently many freezer bags still allow oxygen through the bags. Or perhaps the amount of oxygen present on sealing the bag is enough for the reaction.

The material may very likely be more stable in solution in a vial which has very little oxygen in it in the first place and which prevents further oxygen from getting in.

18

I went through this same issue quite some time ago a batch turned out very similar to what has been shown here. I myself was not prepared to use the product and its still laying around at a buddies house.

My batch underwent the colour change during the the actual heating process itself within a toaster oven.

19

As if heat – or anything above about body temperature, and that only if in a hurry – is needed to dissolve testosterone enanthate anyway.

Yes, I know, “everybody does it” and “they talk about ‘baking,’ don’t they?” and “Don’t you have to heat it to sterilize it?”

This is another of those things, like SHBG “tying up testosterone” or alkalinizing diets that just won’t die.

20

In “heat’s” defense, it does tend to get the hormone into solution in a hurry, and I like to save as much time as I can. I mean, who doesn’t?

I’ve never tried without heat because heating tends to both allow me to get to filtering more quickly and makes the filtering process easier because the still-warm oil is less viscous.

Also I’m fairly certain it’s never been the suggestion by any of my friends on this particular forum, the one’s who taught me how to brew, that baking was ever necessary or that heating the solution had anything at all to do with sterility. Quite the contrary, in fact.

Not trying to pick a fight with you here, Bill, btw. I just wanted to clear up what I thought could possibly have been a misperception about our brewers here.