forlife has still not given us any information as to how it is damaging to undergo therapy for same sex attraction.
I have given volumes of evidence where those with same sex attraction have changed and are living happy and just as importantly healthy lives.
Where is you evidence forlife?
Is this just one more politically correct lie?
I’ll add it to the pile.
(You are in trouble today forlife. I have the entire day off…lol)
Not only is anal sex dangerous whether you wear a condom or not. It seems that many homosexuals are even skipping this precaution according to the latest statistics:
"Risky Sexual Behavior on the Rise Among Homosexuals
Despite two decades of intensive efforts to educate homosexuals against the dangers of acquired immunodeficiency syndrome (AIDS) and other STDs, the incidence of unsafe sexual practices that often result in various diseases is on the rise. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), from 1994 to 1997 the proportion of homosexuals reporting having had anal sex increased from 57.6 percent to 61.2 percent, while the percentage of those reporting “always” using condoms declined from 69.6 percent to 60 percent.2 The CDC reported that during the same period the proportion of men reporting having multiple sex partners and unprotected anal sex increased from 23.6 percent to 33.3 percent. The largest increase in this category (from 22 percent to 33.3 percent) was reported by homosexuals twenty-five years old or younger.3"
[b]It almost seems that homosexuals are trying to kill themselves."
Speaking of suicidal tendencies:
"Bailey, J.M. (1999, October). Homosexuality and Mental Illness. Archives of General Psychiatry. 56: 883-884.
Homosexuals are at a substantially higher risk for some forms of emotional problems, including suicidality, major depression and anxiety disorder. Gay, lesbian, or bisexual people were at an increased lifetime risk for suicidal ideation and behavior, major depression, generalized anxiety disorder, conduct disorder, and nicotine dependence."
The damage is already taking place.
"Cochran, S.D., Mays, V.M. (2000). Relation between psychiatric syndromes and behaviorally defined sexual orientation in a sample of the US population. American Journal of Epidemiology. 151 (5): 516-523.
Homosexually active men were more likely than other men to have evidence of major depression and panic attack syndromes. Homosexually active women were more likely than other women to be classified with alcohol or drug dependency syndromes. Both men and women reporting any same-gender sex partners were more likely than others to have used mental health services."
Forlife:
Dude, I wish I could back you up in this nonsense, but this thread is a digital war of attrition (68pages!) and I have no troubles letting the weirdos win it, cause it doesn’t really matter.
We both live in the here and now, while their beliefs are stuck since ancient times.
I don’t actually believe that ZEB really beliefs his crap. The brain is an intruiging organ. As long as you don’t exaggerate, you can lie a lot to yourself and get away with it. So I think ZEB isn’t such a bad guy, he just desperately wants to look up to something which isn’t there, never was.
That stellar guy, however, is a whackjob.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Um…he was also suicidal PRIOR to his reparitive sessions.
[/quote]
Wrong. He specifically cited being unable to change his sexuality as the reason for his suicide.
[quote]forlife wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Um…he was also suicidal PRIOR to his reparitive sessions.
Wrong. He specifically cited being unable to change his sexuality as the reason for his suicide.[/quote]
Why don’t you read the entire story. Read what his parents had to say about this kid. He had emotional problems prior to ever beginning reparitive therapy!
Don’t you realize what the statistics that I am showing you reveal? Homosexuals on the whole are not a very stable group.
Back to the subject at hand
If this is your proof that therapy is dangerous then you just lost a ton of ground on this thread my friend!
You have not given us any information as to how it is damaging to undergo therapy for same sex attraction.
I have given volumes of evidence where those with same sex attraction have changed and are living happy and just as importantly healthy lives.
Where is your evidence forlife?
Is this just one more politically correct lie?
I’ll add it to the pile.
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Dude, I wish I could back you up in this nonsense, but this thread is a digital war of attrition (68pages!) and I have no troubles letting the weirdos win it, cause it doesn’t really matter.[/quote]
I know. The only reason I keep coming back here is that I can’t stand to see people blatantly presenting lies and half-truths as facts. These idiots are directly contradicted by every major medical and mental health organization in the world, yet they continue to push their agenda and hurt people in the process.
I bought into their crap for much too long, and personally saw the damage that it can create in people’s lives. Fortunately, I woke up before trying suicide, but there are many that are so entrapped by the conflict between their religious beliefs and being unable to change their orientation that they see suicide as the only way out.
It is tragic, and I’m serious when I say that the blood of these people is on the hands of homophobic fundamentalists. Assaulting gays in a hate crime is only one form of violence. Telling people that their orientation is wrong, that they need to change their identity no matter the cost, and that they can do so if only they try hard enough is another form of violence. Whether or not their intentions are good, the homophobes are hurting people, and they bear responsibility for that.
I’m going to really, really try not to respond any more in this thread. If anyone out there is still listening, please just realize that:
Every major medical and mental health organization in the world says that homosexuality is not a mental illness, and that we should not try to change our sexual orientation.
If you happen to be religious, you don’t have to surrender your faith in order to accept your sexuality; there are many Christians (and other faiths) that will love and accept you for who you are.
Don’t put your life at risk by engaging in unsafe sex. Use a condom, and if you try anal sex, use plenty of lube and never do anything that is painful.
Realize that stereotypes are just that! When I first came out, my perception was that gays were either drag queens or that they wore leather and chains. I was worried that I wouldn’t find anyone that I could relate to. There are millions of gays in the world, and you will find a lot of diversity among gays just like you find among heterosexuals. You don’t have to go through the rest of your life feeling isolated and alone.
Most importantly, realize that you can be gay and enjoy a healthy, happy, integrated life! I am so much better off now than when I was trying to live a lie. I’ve found happiness and peace by embracing who I am, and you can too.
[quote]forlife wrote:
I’m going to really, really try not to respond any more in this thread.[/quote]
Oh come on we are not even up to 100 pages yet.
Don’t be a quitter…
Yet, not one of them states that homosexuality is a safe and healthy lifesyle!
And in fact one very important “major medical organization” the CDC (Center For Disease Control) states that there is no way two men can have “safe” homosexual sex!
Not one of them can contradict the volumes of data which prove that homosexuality is in fact a very dangerous lifestyle.
And not one of them can contradict the many thousands of those with same sex attraction who have undergone therapy and are now happily living as heterosexuals.
But none of them want their funding cut off and we all know how important it is to not just talk the politically correct line but to walk it as well.
It’s a pity!
I know it’s not politically correct, to say or do the right thing in 2006. But for those choosing the right path it will be physically and emotionally sound!
The Christian faith does not promote homosexuality. No more than there can be a Christian faith which promotes stealing, lying or rape!
Don’t let forlife or anyone else confuse you. Sin is never okay within the Christian faith. Yes we all sin, but we are supposed to be perpetually moving away from it, not embracing it as an alternative lifestyle!
However, the good news is that the Christian faith loves the sinner while hating the sin. If there are people who have same sex attraction there is hope with in your Christian faith.
One Elder in my Church is a former homosexual. That is one of the reasons that I know people can be helped through therapy.
And he lived the homosexual lifestyle for almost 15 years! Led astray by the politically correct homosexual propaganda. He joined my church and we embraced him, loved him and helped him.
He is currently married and they have three children. He is very happy in his faith and in his marriage. Moreover, there are thousands of stories like this. The homosexual movement does not want to talk about these, it is a direct affront to their ongoing lie of “born that way.”
Don’t buy into the politically correct homosexual agenda. Change is possible if you really want it.
I have already presented numerous posts discussing this very topic.
“Pain” does not have to be a requirement regarding unsafe anal sex. the lining of the rectum is so very thin that “microscopic tears” can take place without you even knowing about them! This leaves the person who was penetrated open to infection and disease from his very own fecal matter!
There is NO WAY to have safe homosexal sex. The CDC (Center For Disease Control) has stated that this type of sex can only be made “safer” never “safe.”
Could this be the reason that homsexal men lead the way in so very many STD’s and HIV infections?
They “think” they are being safe when in fact it’s just a lie!
No one is sterotyping here. Drag Queens? That’s the first time that term has been used by anyone on this thread or any other to my knowledge.
I simply post the statistics as I read them. The fact is that 64% of all new HIV cases are homsexual men. In addition to that homosexual men lead the way in most commuunicable disease’s, anal cancer, gay bowel syndrome and a host of emotional problems ranging from anxiety to depression.
Before you decide to join that group think twice.
forlife was also married with two children. He was very much loved, needed and wanted in every way. He left this life to pursue the life of a homosexual.
It always comes down to choice! You can choose the path that your life takes!
Basically, it’s always easier to give in and give up!
That is exactly what he is describing. Of course he feels more peace currently. If we all give in to our strongest temptations we always feel better in the short term.
It might feel really good to punch someone right in the face when you’re mad at them. Just as it’s temporarily emotionally rewarding to have that piece of Chocolate cake. Or for some, to continue to drink beyond what is normal or expected.
Giving in to temptation and personal lusts or weaknesses has always felt good. When has it never felt good?
I would be surprised if someone actually posted that it felt good to walk away from that temptation. It always feels better to cave in! Give up! Surrender!
However, the short term gain is eventually taken over by a very long term loss!
The added pounds, the hangover etc.
That picture of a “happy, healthy integrated life” that he paints is an illusion. What happens in reality is something quite the reverse.
Loneliness, disease, sorrow and pain are all involved in the ultimate outcome to most of the scenarios which begin with such a great relief when giving in and giving up!
[quote]forlife wrote:
terribleivan wrote:
This is by far the most disgusting thought on this thread…Very disgusting.
Again, I think most gay men would find licking a woman’s vagina to be similary “disgusting”. But finding something personally “disgusting” doesn’t justify bigotry and discrimination.
I would never presume to tell a straight guy that his cunnilingus disgusts me and that he should therefore become gay.[/quote]
Bigotry and discrimination has nothing to do with it, when you stick your tounge in someone else’s butt or put their fecal matter in your mouth in any other way, you are looking for serious health consequences. There is a reason our body is disposing of the poop.
Very disgusting.
[quote]forlife wrote:
Did you even read the article? Jeffrey Price was a gay teen that committed suicide after being pressured to change his sexual orientation and failing to do so. You have no idea what kind of damage reparative therapy can do to people.
[/quote]
You did not provide an article so there was nothing to read.
I am not going to downplay suicide. It is sad. But, I what you described above sounds like very poor reparative therapy. Do you have any examples from homosexuals who have seeked help from experts?
[quote]forlife wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Not at all. It’s just that two guys living together having butt sex is not “family.”
Probably one of the most ignorant and bigoted statements you have made to date. Congrats![/quote]
After calling him a liar for 20 pages, did you expect him to sugar-coat it? I don’t think he is alone in his belief.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Don’t let forlife or anyone else confuse you. Sin is never okay within the Christian faith. Yes we all sin, but we are supposed to be perpetually moving away from it, not embracing it as an alternative lifestyle!
[/quote]
AMEN!
The trouble is, those who have no concept of sin remain only fearful of societal laws. These people can find ways to excuse everything & anything under the sun that doesn’t fall under the definition of criminal activity. All too often, their conscience seeks to be thrilled and abiding by the laws of the land just won’t do. Some of these peoples peform all sorts of heinous acts (like pedophilia & beastiality) as it provides a means of dangerous excitement - dangerous in the sense of potentially getting caught & prosecuted. Authentic God-fearing people on the other hand, exercise self-control and a more profound sense of right & wrong.
forlife, from what I gather, defends oral-anal intercourse by pointing out that many heterosexuals indulge in the practice of oral sex. That’s a poor defense in my opinion. As the cliche goes, [b]two wrongs don’t make a right[/b]… Secondly, as disgusting as it is, a man giving a blow job to another man is one thing, but a man licking another man’s @sshole is another. I don’t know of any heterosexuals who lick their partners rectums. Why? Because there’s fecal matter lodged up there somewhere and they realize that it is an unsafe practice that’s far more dangerous than “traditional” oral sex.
forlife, there are people here who want you to live according to your passions of the flesh. People who would rather have you support the free-spirited lifestyle because it suits them in some way. Don’t be such a pawn. You only have one soul. You come from a Christian background. Whether or not you believe, your good works of faith in the past did accumulate on your behalf towards some future merit / reward. Don’t be a man of the flesh, be a man of the spirit. Don’t be led astray by those who do not know the things of God. You only have one soul.
Think about when you were a kid, how stepping on dog poo disgusted you. If you accidentally stepped in it, all your friends made fun of you and your mom might yell at you for bringing it in the house. That instinctual reaction to feces told you that dog poo (or any poo for that matter) didn’t belong on your body, let alone in your mouth. Perhaps after engaging in this practice for numerous times you’ve been desensitized to the ills of doing so, kind of like a kid who puts his fingers in his mouth after picking his nose… It’s just not right!!!
Peace be with you.
[quote]forlife wrote:
I bought into their crap for much too long, and personally saw the damage that it can create in people’s lives. Fortunately, I woke up before trying suicide, but there are many that are so entrapped by the conflict between their religious beliefs and being unable to change their orientation that they see suicide as the only way out.
[/quote]
[1] ZEB has shown that the homosexual population suffers from higher rates of depression & anxiety (whch may lead to suicide) than any other group. Unless a high percentage of homosexuals who underwent orientation adjustment therapy committed suicide, stop insinuating that homosexuals are damaged by such treatments.
[2] If someone is so entrenched in their religious beliefs, say like Christianity for example, then how do you make the claim that suicide is the only way out? Suicide in Christianity is the complete absence of hope, a heart filled with despair, and utter faithlessness leading up to the physical act. Suicide becomes a path leading straight to hell as hope and trust in Jesus Christ are aborted. Any homosexual that firmly believes in Jesus Christ who undergoes orientation adjustment therapy will do everything BUT commit suicide, unless of’course they suffer from a mental illness or belong to a society which exalts the act.
There are two general options:
#1 Either you believe in Jesus Christ and try to accomplish all of His commandments and repent when you can not, or
#2 You live according to your lusts, follow some other religion (like atheism), and/or possibly engage in practices like suicide since you don’t believe in hell or the afterlife.
It’s not conceivable to be a fervent, mentally-sane Christian and participate in the act of suicide under voluntary cirucmstances. You argument above is severely flawed.
[quote]stellar_horizon wrote:
forlife wrote:
I bought into their crap for much too long, and personally saw the damage that it can create in people’s lives. Fortunately, I woke up before trying suicide, but there are many that are so entrapped by the conflict between their religious beliefs and being unable to change their orientation that they see suicide as the only way out.
[1] ZEB has shown that the homosexual population suffers from higher rates of depression & anxiety (whch may lead to suicide) than any other group. Unless a high percentage of homosexuals who underwent orientation adjustment therapy committed suicide, stop insinuating that homosexuals are damaged by such treatments.
[2] If someone is so entrenched in their religious beliefs, say like Christianity for example, then how do you make the claim that suicide is the only way out? Suicide in Christianity is the complete absence of hope, a heart filled with despair, and utter faithlessness leading up to the physical act. Suicide becomes a path leading straight to hell as hope and trust in Jesus Christ are aborted. Any homosexual that firmly believes in Jesus Christ who undergoes orientation adjustment therapy will do everything BUT commit suicide, unless of’course they suffer from a mental illness or belong to a society which exalts the act.
There are two general options:
#1 Either you believe in Jesus Christ and try to accomplish all of His commandments and repent when you can not, or
#2 You live according to your lusts, follow some other religion (like atheism), and/or possibly engage in practices like suicide since you don’t believe in hell or the afterlife.
It’s not conceivable to be a fervent, mentally-sane Christian and participate in the act of suicide under voluntary cirucmstances. You argument above is severely flawed.
[/quote]
This is a brilliant post! You summed up all the tremendous work Zeb did very well!
Excellent, excellent post!
One last thought, since I just came across this quote today and felt it was a perfect summation of the course of discussion in this thread.
Those of you with religious prejudice against homosexuality don’t even realize that you are operating under a confirmatory bias. You ignore evidence which fails to support your beliefs, and rally around any tenuous tidbit which seems to support them.
Of course, being gay I am subject to the same confirmatory biases in the opposite direction. The difference is that my conclusions on homosexuality are supported by the scientific research of every major medical and mental health organization in the world, and your conclusions are directly contradicted by these organizations. Since it is the job of these organizations to separate the empirical wheat from the chaff, people are wise to trust them over extremist organizations like NARTH, with an overt homophobic agenda.
Normally, I wouldn’t care what you fundamentalists believe. However, you aren’t content with keeping your beliefs within your church, and instead feel compelled to impose them on others. Unfortunately, gays in a vulnerable position (especially gay youth) may make the mistake of taking your claims at face value, and become damaged in the process.
I will say once again that I believe the suicides of many gay people are on the hands of fundamentalists that push a homophobic religious agenda, without educating themselves on the consequences of their crusade. If there is a god, I believe you will be held accountable for that.
Given that context, here is the quote:
One day, society will treat gays with fairness and respect. Looking back on how women and blacks were treated historically, most people today wonder at the bigotry that was so prevalent. People will eventually view the current treatment of gays in the same light.
[quote]forlife wrote:
One last thought, since I just came across this quote today and felt it was a perfect summation of the course of discussion in this thread.
Those of you with religious prejudice against homosexuality don’t even realize that you are operating under a confirmatory bias. You ignore evidence which fails to support your beliefs, and rally around any tenuous tidbit which seems to support them.
Of course, being gay I am subject to the same confirmatory biases in the opposite direction. The difference is that my conclusions on homosexuality are supported by the scientific research of every major medical and mental health organization in the world, and your conclusions are directly contradicted by these organizations. Since it is the job of these organizations to separate the empirical wheat from the chaff, people are wise to trust them over extremist organizations like NARTH, with an overt homophobic agenda.
Normally, I wouldn’t care what you fundamentalists believe. However, you aren’t content with keeping your beliefs within your church, and instead feel compelled to impose them on others. Unfortunately, gays in a vulnerable position (especially gay youth) may make the mistake of taking your claims at face value, and become damaged in the process.
I will say once again that I believe the suicides of many gay people are on the hands of fundamentalists that push a homophobic religious agenda, without educating themselves on the consequences of their crusade. If there is a god, I believe you will be held accountable for that.
Given that context, here is the quote:
The mind of a bigot is like the pupil of the eye. The more light you shine on it, the more it will contract. -Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.
One day, society will treat gays with fairness and respect. Looking back on how women and blacks were treated historically, most people today wonder at the bigotry that was so prevalent. People will eventually view the current treatment of gays in the same light.[/quote]
[quote]forlife wrote:
One last thought, since I just came across this quote today and felt it was a perfect summation of the course of discussion in this thread.
Those of you with religious prejudice against homosexuality don’t even realize that you are operating under a confirmatory bias. You ignore evidence which fails to support your beliefs, and rally around any tenuous tidbit which seems to support them.
Of course, being gay I am subject to the same confirmatory biases in the opposite direction. The difference is that my conclusions on homosexuality are supported by the scientific research of every major medical and mental health organization in the world, and your conclusions are directly contradicted by these organizations. Since it is the job of these organizations to separate the empirical wheat from the chaff, people are wise to trust them over extremist organizations like NARTH, with an overt homophobic agenda.
Normally, I wouldn’t care what you fundamentalists believe. However, you aren’t content with keeping your beliefs within your church, and instead feel compelled to impose them on others. Unfortunately, gays in a vulnerable position (especially gay youth) may make the mistake of taking your claims at face value, and become damaged in the process.
I will say once again that I believe the suicides of many gay people are on the hands of fundamentalists that push a homophobic religious agenda, without educating themselves on the consequences of their crusade. If there is a god, I believe you will be held accountable for that.
Given that context, here is the quote:
The mind of a bigot is like the pupil of the eye. The more light you shine on it, the more it will contract. -Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.
One day, society will treat gays with fairness and respect. Looking back on how women and blacks were treated historically, most people today wonder at the bigotry that was so prevalent. People will eventually view the current treatment of gays in the same light.[/quote]
Big difference – women and blacks are normal people, except those that are perverts.
What’s next in your agenda? Do I have to treat perverts who want to fuck sheep and goats with respect? Is pedophilia just an alternative lifestyle choice?
Man, the same major malfunction that made you gay is fucking up your reasoning. Go to a psychiatrist now!!
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
What’s next in your agenda? Do I have to treat perverts who want to fuck sheep and goats with respect? Is pedophilia just an alternative lifestyle choice?
Man, the same major malfunction that made you gay is fucking up your reasoning. Go to a psychiatrist now!!
[/quote]
Charming…
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Big difference – women and blacks are normal people, except those that are perverts.
What’s next in your agenda? Do I have to treat perverts who want to fuck sheep and goats with respect? Is pedophilia just an alternative lifestyle choice?
Man, the same major malfunction that made you gay is fucking up your reasoning. Go to a psychiatrist now!!
[/quote]
If I were an admin, I would throw you so out, Mister.
Agitators who spew their hate for homosexuals have no right to persist in a western democracy.
How about migrating to Iran? The government shares your values.