[quote]ZEB wrote:
To say that the thousands cases where people changed their same sex attraction is a lie, simply speaks to your desperation on the matter.
[/quote]
Quit putting words in my mouth. I have always said that people GENERALLY CANNOT change their orientation, and that doing so can be DAMAGING and is NOT RECOMMENDED by the major medical and mental health organizations in the world.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
You are telling us that no one can discriminate against anyone or anything? We simply have to great one and all with open arms all the time no matter what?[/quote]
I’m telling you that bigots have always existed, that they never admit to being bigots, and that historically they have used the bible to support their bigotry.
You said there was no evidence for homosexuality having a genetic component. I’ve given you numerous studies, published in respected scientific journals, proving that to be false.
Did you even bother to read the references I provided? I never said that homosexuality cannot have an environmental component…I am honest on that point. In fact, I have said several times that in all likelihood it is probably a mixture of genetics and environment. You, however, continue to insist that homosexuality cannot have a genetic component.
Why don’t you try being honest for a change? Tell me why identical twins are so much more likely to both be gay than fraternal twins, who in turn are more likely to both be gay than adopted siblings.
[quote]forlife wrote:
ZEB wrote:
You said that and I said: "Anyone can be gay it’s not at all dangerous. However as soon as they act on their impusle it becomes dangerous.
You’re overgeneralizing again, by assuming that all gays practice unsafe anal sex.[/quote]
Please name one group which as such a high incidence of death, disease and over all generally poor health!
[quote]Wow…well goody for them. What about the homosexual men who comprise a full 64% of the HIV list? Oops…I guess they might have put it where it does not belong.
So tell gays to practice safe sex instead of condemning the entire sexual orienation. A lot of heterosexuals practice unsafe sex too.[/quote]
Oh darn you forgot to say “safer sex.” Remember the CDC says there is no way that gays can practice “safe sex.”
There is no such thing as safe gay sex, isn’t that amazing?
A bitter pill to swallow for you I’m Sure.
[quote]40% huh? Okay…then why is it that the HIV list is made up of 64% gay men?
Maybe a lot of gays in the US don’t use condoms. Apparently, a lot of heterosexuals outside the US don’t use condoms either, since they comprise the large majority of new HIV cases.[/quote]
You have twisted this one before!
If there are more people doing something that is unsafe then that group should have a higher rate of infection.
However, how do you explain homosexual men in the US leading the way in HIV? 64% of all new HIV cases are homosexual men!
Answer that one without twisting and lying…please.
[quote]And if I make a list of all the problems that alcoholics face you would be there to single out the few who don’t have any?
No, I would tell people to drink alcohol responsibly, just as I would tell them to practice sex responsibly.[/quote]
But you see that contradicts what the CDC says “there is no such thing as safe gay sex.”
Now what?
[quote]How come they are not touting the longevity and health benefits of being gay?
They are saying that it is less healthy to try changing one’s orientation than to embrace it.[/quote]
I see, you don’t want to address the high volume of disease with in the gay community.
Can’t say that I blame you. The topic is a real loser for you.
[quote]Gee you think it might be because it’s a dangerous practice?..DUH
Homosexuality is not a “dangerous practice”. Unprotected anal sex is a “dangerous practice”. Not all gays (and not all heteroexuals) have unprotected anal sex. [/quote]
There you go lying again!
There is more disease with in the gay community than any other similar sized group. No wait! More than any other group period!
Perhaps long time drug users would be higher…but I doubt it.
It’s very unhealthy to practice homosexual sex!
Even one encounter can kill you! Honestly, one little mistake and you have HIV!
And of course the long term damage is also very high.
It’s basically a very bad thing to do to yourself and someone else.
Do I make myself clear?
Write back soon.
[quote]forlife wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Of course they are “discriminated against!” When it comes to “family” and things of that nature.
Are you suggesting that “family” and things of that nature aren’t important?
[/quote]
Not at all. It’s just that two guys living together having butt sex is not “family.”
I know that was crude…but why mince words. I feel like we are good friends.
Okay …maybe not friends. But at least we are “good.”
[quote]forlife wrote:
ZEB wrote:
To say that the thousands cases where people changed their same sex attraction is a lie, simply speaks to your desperation on the matter.
Quit putting words in my mouth. I have always said that people GENERALLY CANNOT change their orientation, and that doing so can be DAMAGING and is NOT RECOMMENDED by the major medical and mental health organizations in the world.[/quote]
But what about all those people who did change?
I guess it was not damaging to them huh?
No indeed. In fact, it was a wonderful life altering experience!
[quote]forlife wrote:
ZEB wrote:
You are telling us that no one can discriminate against anyone or anything? We simply have to great one and all with open arms all the time no matter what?
I’m telling you that bigots have always existed, that they never admit to being bigots, and that historically they have used the bible to support their bigotry.[/quote]
And I’m telling you that discrimination is not bad. It’s whom you’re discriminating against and why which matters.
It’s wrong to discriminate against anyone because of a genetic factor. for example.
[quote]The best scientists in the business who study this stuff daily don’t have conclusive evidence that it is genetic.
You said there was no evidence for homosexuality having a genetic component. I’ve given you numerous studies, published in respected scientific journals, proving that to be false.[/quote]
Wrong again Mr. word twister!
I said that there was “no proof.”
Do you want me to lecture you on the difference between “proof” and “evidence?”
There is volumes of evidence that homosexuality is NOT genetic. But there is no proof. NO proof either way right now so hang that argument out to dry for a while.
No actually, I am saying that I don’t know. No one knows.
I always have been, now you stop twisting and turning and playing word games.
No one knows why some twins are gay and some are not. No one has conclusive proof if this is nature or nurture, or a combination of both.
Perhaps that’s why this is such a controversial topic.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Please name one group which as such a high incidence of death, disease and over all generally poor health![/quote]
How about young african american males living in Washington, D.C.? Should we make blanket judgments about african americans like you are trying to do with gays?
There is no such thing as safe heterosexual sex either. The only guarantee of safety is abstinence.
Maybe a larger number of gay men in the US are having sex without condoms?
Quit generalizing. You haven’t provided a single statistic on disease rates among gay men that use condoms.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Not at all. It’s just that two guys living together having butt sex is not “family.”[/quote]
Probably one of the most ignorant and bigoted statements you have made to date. Congrats!
[quote]ZEB wrote:
But what about all those people who did change?
I guess it was not damaging to them huh?
No indeed. In fact, it was a wonderful life altering experience!
[/quote]
What about the far greater number of people that tried to change, failed, and were damaged in the process?
By your standard of change, I was one of the success stories! By external appearances, I was living the perfect American middle class picket fence existence. But that doesn’t mean I was happy or integrated in my life.
Not to say that some people (probably those that are more moderate in the sexual continuum) aren’t happy being straight. The point is that every major medical and mental health organization has found that attempting to change one’s orientation can be damaging, and is NOT RECOMMENDED.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
And I’m telling you that discrimination is not bad. It’s whom you’re discriminating against and why which matters.[/quote]
Bigots never think they are to blame. They genuinely believe that their bigotry is justified (and they frequently use the bible to support their stance).
Wrong. Research showing an environmental factor in homosexuality doesn’t prove that genetics aren’t also in play. Instead of thinking in black and white, why not acknowledge that BOTH genetics and environment may play a role in sexual orientation?
You’re right, we don’t have all the answers. But there is pretty good evidence to this point for both a genetic and an environmental influence on homosexuality. To blanketly say that genetics plays no role, or that environment plays no role, is to misquote the evidence.
[quote]forlife wrote:
What about the far greater number of people that tried to change, failed, and were damaged in the process?
[/quote]
Can you provide examples people who were damaged?
[quote]forlife wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Please name one group which as such a high incidence of death, disease and over all generally poor health!
How about young african american males living in Washington, D.C.? Should we make blanket judgments about african americans like you are trying to do with gays?[/quote]
African American males?
Why do you always want to play that game?
Is being black a choice?
Youth in poverty is not a choice either.
Give it up…
[quote]There is no such thing as safe gay sex, isn’t that amazing?
There is no such thing as safe heterosexual sex either. The only guarantee of safety is abstinence.[/quote]
WRONG YOU ARE!
A husband and a wife can engage in “safe” sex. All history is known etc.
The fact is the primary gay sex act is UNSAFE no matter what you do.
Shame huh?
[quote]It’s very unhealthy to practice homosexual sex!
Quit generalizing. You haven’t provided a single statistic on disease rates among gay men that use condoms.[/quote]
Ha ha…oh come on you can do better than that.
We’ve been all through the anal cavity problem. The thin lining and it’s natural use.
You just hate sitting there with egg on your face huh?
Get used to it!
[quote]forlife wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Not at all. It’s just that two guys living together having butt sex is not “family.”
Probably one of the most ignorant and bigoted statements you have made to date. Congrats![/quote]
Well then please tell me what exactly is untrue about it?
NOTHING!
Oh you mean it’s not politically correct…well yes I agree with that. But then I have no respect for the politically correct or their distorted view of the world.
I did make that clear several times.
[quote]forlife wrote:
ZEB wrote:
But what about all those people who did change?
I guess it was not damaging to them huh?
No indeed. In fact, it was a wonderful life altering experience!
What about the far greater number of people that tried to change, failed, and were damaged in the process?[/quote]
I was going to do it earlier but then I thought…hey give the guy a break. He already has an uphill climb on his hands defending homosexual sex. But I’m going to do it now:
Tell me, how are these people “damaged”? Were you “damaged?” I think not.
The only damage is in not trying to change a very unhealthy and dangerous behavior!
[quote]forlife wrote:
ZEB wrote:
And I’m telling you that discrimination is not bad. It’s whom you’re discriminating against and why which matters.
Bigots never think they are to blame. They genuinely believe that their bigotry is justified (and they frequently use the bible to support their stance).[/quote]
I stand by that statement. And I will “discriminate” all that I can against anyone who attempts to harm my family.
Child molesters
Gang members
People who are generally bad
(You know “family.” One man, one woman, a couple of kids…
[quote]To blanketly say that genetics plays no role, or that environment plays no role, is to misquote the evidence.
[/quote]
For the third time (you either don’t pay attention, or you simply lie when you feel like it) I stated that "there is no “conclusive proof” that homosexuality is genetic!
[quote]terribleivan wrote:
Can you provide examples people who were damaged? [/quote]
Me (and no, I’m not going to provide you with the personal details).
But don’t take my word for it. Every major medical and mental health organization has said that trying to change your orientation can be damaging and is not recommended.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Is being black a choice?
Youth in poverty is not a choice either.[/quote]
Nor is being gay.
Every major medical and mental health organization has concluded that people do not choose their sexual orientation.
Wrong. Husbands can cheat on wives and not tell them about it. You can get diseases from other sources (needles, blood transfusions, etc.) and share them with your spouse. Condoms can break.
Of course, the risk is minimal in a monogamous relationship where condoms are used. But that applies to both homosexuals and heterosexuals.
You haven’t provided a single statistic on health risks when condoms and ample lubrication are used.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Well then please tell me what exactly is untrue about it?[/quote]
You should talk to my friends, Ian and Ambrose. Yes, they’re real people. They are from England. They’ve been together for over 50 years. They love each other deeply. They complete each other’s sentences. They have spent their lives together. They are a family.
forlifes Biology lesson:
The anus is the inch-and-a-half-long end portion of the large intestine, which opens to allow solid wastes to exit the body. Other parts of the large intestine include the colon and the rectum.
CAUTION Do Not Insert Any Item Into The Anus! As this may cause serious consequences including but not limited to anal cancer.
"Homosexuals are at increased risk for this rare type of cancer, which is potentially fatal if the anal-rectal tumors metastasize to other bodily organs. Dr. Joel Palefsky, a leading expert in the field of anal cancer, reports that while the incidence of anal cancer in the United States is only 0.9/100,000, that number soars to 35/100,000 for homosexuals.
Matters not whether you wear a condom or not…IT’S DANGEROUS!
"Homosexuals with STDs Are at an Increased Risk for HIV Infection.
Studies of MSM (MEN WHO HAVE SEX WITH MEN) treated in STD clinics show rates of infection as high as 36 percent in major cities.46 A CDC study attributed the high infection rate to having high numbers of anonymous sex partners: "[S]yphilis, gonorrhea, and chlamydia apparently have been introduced into a population of MSM who have large numbers of anonymous partners, which can result in rapid and extensive transmission of STDs."47 The CDC report concluded: "Persons with STDs, including genital ulcer disease and nonulcerative STD, have a twofold to fivefold increased risk for HIV infection.“48”