Brokeback Propaganda

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
terribleivan wrote:
I would add to this thread, but it seems I don’t need to at this time.

BTW - does anyone here know who the most persecuted groups in history are? It’s debateable, but Christians are definitely at the top of the list (much higher than homosexuals considering how so many societiest that have fallen have embrased homosexuality).

Have you ever read a book besides this bible?
Christians one of the most persecuted?
You wish, preacherboy.

There are countless ethnic minorities, small religions or cultures which had to face so much abuse and violence through the centuries that your claim is laughable.
Most of these unlucky groups were victims of catholicism.
And let’s not forget women, who, even today, have often trouble expressing their most basic rights.

The history of christianity is mostly a success story, on the other hand.
After some turbulent beginning decades, which included a few pogroms it became a state religion in Rome. From that point the church and it’s philosphies were gaining might and influence by the years.
Luckily, it’s terroristic reign is slowly coming to an end![/quote]

A few pogroms? So destructive were the forces against Christianity that the period when the Gospel spread throughout Europe, Africa, and Asia is labeled by scholars as the Age of Great Persecution; it lasted for over 300 years until thankfully, St. Constantine the Great made Christianity legal within the Roman Empire. It was a timeline spanning centuries, not decades as you falsely assert.

Your association of Christianity as a terrorist religion is absurd and to equate Roman Catholicism with the original Church (Orthodox Christianity) is nothing but a deceptive, ignorant illusion. Do you know who the Crusades of the Roman Catholics included? If you guessed fellow Christians, you’re right. The Roman Catholics sacked Constantinople in the 1200’s, effectively weakening the Orthodox Christian Church from the left flank so that it could no longer defend Her people from the onslaught on the right which was lead by Muslims waging jihad towards the west.

For you to pinpoint one Christian sect amongst thousands and convey all others within the Faith as being terrorists is unfair and despicable. Why don’t you tell us about how the Baptists terrorize the world, or the Lutherans, or the Orthodox Christians? Because you can’t. There are bad apples in every bunch but to say that one apple has a worm in it doesn’t mean the rest of the batch is rotten.

About the reign of Christianity slowly coming to an end, I don’t need you to point that out because the Fathers of the Church spoke on the issue thousands of years ago. If you check a Bible, you’ll also see that Revelations speaks of men growing faint in heart and turning away from God to follow in their own lusts and worldly passions (like fornication & sodomy).

Jesus Christ states one rhetorical question within the Bible for mankind to ponder… if there’ll be one true Christian on earth when He returns in His glorious Second Coming. So yeah, the reign is slowly coming to an end, exactly as the Church prophesied that it would. It’s bitter-sweet though, because as the world draws closer to what the Orthodox Fathers term [b]maximal sin[/b], we know we’re one step closer to that Glorious Day when Christ shall exalt or humble each and every one of us according to our works of faith here on earth.

And about what terribleivan said about Christianity experiencing persecution - Jesus made it clear that in the last days there’ll be so much slaughter waged by non-Christians against the faithful in wiping us off the face of the planet, that those final days of bloodshed will be unlike any other in the history of mankind. Maybe not in my lifetime, maybe not in the next, but it’s coming somewhere down the line…

Hope you’ve been enlightened. Peace be with you.

[quote]forlife wrote:
ZEB wrote:
And not one of your medical institutions claims that homosexuality is a perfectly safe practice. Or that it can ever be made safe!

Every major medical and mental health organization recommends that gays do NOT attempt to change their orientation. All of your hyperventilating about the “dangers of homosexuality” is contradicted by this single fact.[/quote]

con?tra?dict Audio pronunciation of “contradict” ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kntr-dkt)
v. con?tra?dict?ed, con?tra?dict?ing, con?tra?dicts
v. tr.

  1. To assert or express the opposite of (a statement).
  2. To deny the statement of. See Synonyms at deny.
  3. To be contrary to; be inconsistent with.

So please tell me how homosexuality is in fact a safe practice.


This should be another thread altogether, but here are some things to ponder which your local media or museum doesn’t know or wouldn’t dare to cover:

Between 1917-1945, over 90,000,000 (yes, that’s ninety-million) Orthodox Christians were slayed by Marxists in the USSR because they opposed the atheist religion of the state. This was known as the Red Revolution and was headed by Trotsky and Lenin who were financed $35 million dollars by the Guaranty National Trust in NYC, the largest bank in the United States in 1917, which was owned by Jacob Schiff, a zealous Jew and publicly self-proclaimed anti-Christian.

Will Spielberg make a Schindler’s List to inform the world of Christian genocide? Nah, it’s not cool in our politically correct age to speak up for Christians and their religion. Compare 6 million lives to 90 million - I think everyone gets the drift…

Also, research the Armenian Genocide and think about what’s going on today in Sudan where over 30,000 Christians were murdered by Muslims for refusing to convert to Islam. To say that Christianity is not being persecuted in our day and age is ignorant and foolish.

Heck, do you know that over 160 Orthodox Christian churches and monasteries have been brought to rubble in Serbia since the late 1990’s as a result of the Muslim KLA (Kosovo Liberation Army), which gained momentum and support after the Balkan War? Not only was this army funded by Osama Bin Laden, but the United States did absolutely nothing to stop it from pillaging and massacring hundreds of villages and thousands of Orthodox Christians. This led to an exodus of the indigenous peoples (which the Muslims are very happy about because they’re now one step closer to regaining the land constituting the fertile crescent as seen in their religion’s emblem which spans into Eastern Europe).

Ok, I probably lost a lot of you, but hopefully you got the basic idea. Christians throughout the world are suffering and many would prefer to turn a blind eye to this fact. One day, the persecution shall be brought here as well. The first level of course, will be psychological and ethical, which is why Christians need to continue proclaiming their values and renouncing the demonic trends of the world.

Peace be with all.

[quote]cap’nsalty wrote:
So please tell me how homosexuality is in fact a safe practice.[/quote]

If being gay were “unsafe”, the major medical and mental health organizations of the world would not recommend that people embrace their orientation instead of trying to change it. It is the responsibility of these organizations to ensure the physical and mental health of their patients.

Telling gays that there is something wrong with their orientation, and that they should try to change, is socially irresponsible and contraindicated by these organizations.

[quote]stellar_horizon wrote:
This should be another thread altogether, but here are some things to ponder which your local media or museum doesn’t know or wouldn’t dare to cover:

Between 1917-1945, over 90,000,000 (yes, that’s ninety-million) Orthodox Christians were slayed by Marxists in the USSR because they opposed the atheist religion of the state. This was known as the Red Revolution and was headed by Trotsky and Lenin who were financed $35 million dollars by the Guaranty National Trust in NYC, the largest bank in the United States in 1917, which was owned by Jacob Schiff, a zealous Jew and publicly self-proclaimed anti-Christian.

Will Spielberg make a Schindler’s List to inform the world of Christian genocide? Nah, it’s not cool in our politically correct age to speak up for Christians and their religion. Compare 6 million lives to 90 million - I think everyone gets the drift…

Also, research the Armenian Genocide and think about what’s going on today in Sudan where over 30,000 Christians were murdered by Muslims for refusing to convert to Islam. To say that Christianity is not being persecuted in our day and age is ignorant and foolish.

Heck, do you know that over 160 Orthodox Christian churches and monasteries have been brought to rubble in Serbia since the late 1990’s as a result of the Muslim KLA (Kosovo Liberation Army), which gained momentum and support after the Balkan War? Not only was this army funded by Osama Bin Laden, but the United States did absolutely nothing to stop it from pillaging and massacring hundreds of villages and thousands of Orthodox Christians. This led to an exodus of the indigenous peoples (which the Muslims are very happy about because they’re now one step closer to regaining the land constituting the fertile crescent as seen in their religion’s emblem which spans into Eastern Europe).

Ok, I probably lost a lot of you, but hopefully you got the basic idea. Christians throughout the world are suffering and many would prefer to turn a blind eye to this fact. One day, the persecution shall be brought here as well. The first level of course, will be psychological and ethical, which is why Christians need to continue proclaiming their values and renouncing the demonic trends of the world.

Peace be with all.[/quote]

90 million? Great, heaping buckets of bullshit. You’re telling me that they killed 1/3 of the total population of their country? References?

While the Soviet’s “religious toleration” stance was a facade, tens of millions of Orthodox christians were not slain for being christian. Subjected to propaganda and harassment and subversive attempts by the government to crush religion, yes. Many outspoken Orthodox christians were killed along with other political enemies in the Great Purges, but this 90 million figure is a load of crap.

[quote]stellar_horizon wrote:
This should be another thread altogether, but here are some things to ponder which your local media or museum doesn’t know or wouldn’t dare to cover:

Between 1917-1945, over 90,000,000 (yes, that’s ninety-million) Orthodox Christians were slayed by Marxists in the USSR because they opposed the atheist religion of the state. This was known as the Red Revolution and was headed by Trotsky and Lenin who were financed $35 million dollars by the Guaranty National Trust in NYC, the largest bank in the United States in 1917, which was owned by Jacob Schiff, a zealous Jew and publicly self-proclaimed anti-Christian.

Will Spielberg make a Schindler’s List to inform the world of Christian genocide? Nah, it’s not cool in our politically correct age to speak up for Christians and their religion. Compare 6 million lives to 90 million - I think everyone gets the drift…

Also, research the Armenian Genocide and think about what’s going on today in Sudan where over 30,000 Christians were murdered by Muslims for refusing to convert to Islam. To say that Christianity is not being persecuted in our day and age is ignorant and foolish.

Heck, do you know that over 160 Orthodox Christian churches and monasteries have been brought to rubble in Serbia since the late 1990’s as a result of the Muslim KLA (Kosovo Liberation Army), which gained momentum and support after the Balkan War? Not only was this army funded by Osama Bin Laden, but the United States did absolutely nothing to stop it from pillaging and massacring hundreds of villages and thousands of Orthodox Christians. This led to an exodus of the indigenous peoples (which the Muslims are very happy about because they’re now one step closer to regaining the land constituting the fertile crescent as seen in their religion’s emblem which spans into Eastern Europe).

Ok, I probably lost a lot of you, but hopefully you got the basic idea. Christians throughout the world are suffering and many would prefer to turn a blind eye to this fact. One day, the persecution shall be brought here as well. The first level of course, will be psychological and ethical, which is why Christians need to continue proclaiming their values and renouncing the demonic trends of the world.

Peace be with all.[/quote]

Thank you for elaborating on that point. If God did not want Christianity to survive, it would have certainly been snuffed out. But, throughout all the adversity, Christians grow stronger. Quite amazing.

[quote]terribleivan wrote:

Thank you for elaborating on that point. If God did not want Christianity to survive, it would have certainly been snuffed out. But, throughout all the adversity, Christians grow stronger. Quite amazing.[/quote]

If God did not want homosexuality to survive, it would have certainly been snuffed out. Isn’t that your logic?

You expect a group of humans to survive adversity and NOT grow stronger because of it? Have you no faith in mankind?

[quote]Donut62 wrote:
terribleivan wrote:

Thank you for elaborating on that point. If God did not want Christianity to survive, it would have certainly been snuffed out. But, throughout all the adversity, Christians grow stronger. Quite amazing.

If God did not want homosexuality to survive, it would have certainly been snuffed out. Isn’t that your logic?

You expect a group of humans to survive adversity and NOT grow stronger because of it? Have you no faith in mankind?[/quote]

You completely missed the point.

Christianity has faced long, persistant, violent opposition. The persecution was so fierce that in the early days of Christianity when the Romans feed Christians to the lions, the lions eventually refused to eat human flesh because they were thrown so many Christians. Despite this, Christianity flurished - a testament to God’s favor.

Homosexuality has NOT faced long, persistant, violent opposition. As forlife has noted several times, many great societies embrased homosexuality. The Greeks and the Romans are the most notable. But, dispite the acceptance of homosexuality, the civilations fell. I do believe that was a punishment inflicted by God.

You are in a subject to goes way over your head. You may wish to stop while you are ahead.

Ivan

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:

Luckily, it’s terroristic reign is slowly coming to an end![/quote]

Oh darn you forgot to read the book! The best part is still to come.

WE WIN IN THE END

:slight_smile:

[quote]terribleivan wrote:
Donut62 wrote:
terribleivan wrote:

Thank you for elaborating on that point. If God did not want Christianity to survive, it would have certainly been snuffed out. But, throughout all the adversity, Christians grow stronger. Quite amazing.

If God did not want homosexuality to survive, it would have certainly been snuffed out. Isn’t that your logic?

You expect a group of humans to survive adversity and NOT grow stronger because of it? Have you no faith in mankind?

You completely missed the point.

Christianity has faced long, persistant, violent opposition. The persecution was so fierce that in the early days of Christianity when the Romans feed Christians to the lions, the lions eventually refused to eat human flesh because they were thrown so many Christians. Despite this, Christianity flurished - a testament to God’s favor.

Homosexuality has NOT faced long, persistant, violent opposition. As forlife has noted several times, many great societies embrased homosexuality. The Greeks and the Romans are the most notable. But, dispite the acceptance of homosexuality, the civilations fell. I do believe that was a punishment inflicted by God.

You are in a subject to goes way over your head. You may wish to stop while you are ahead.

Ivan[/quote]

I’ll ignore the presumptious conclusion of your post, because the rest of it enlightened me as to what you were saying earlier.

I completely disagree with your claim that homosexuality has not faced long, violent opposition. Since Constantine came to power homosexuality was punished with death in the Roman Empire. If the Roman Empire fell in divine retribution for embracing homosexuality, why was it not saved by Constantine’s damnation of the act? Throughout Europe in the Middle Ages, and until 1861 in England, homosexuality was punished with death. It would seem that widespread condemnation of gays in Europe coincides with the rise of Christianity. You would think that a group that suffered such fierce discrimination itself would have learned something.

[quote]terribleivan wrote:
Homosexuality has NOT faced long, persistant, violent opposition. Ivan[/quote]

Tell that to the gay Jews that wore the pink triangle in the concentration camps…they were persecuted as the lowest of the low.

I don’t see many Christians being denied the right to marry people they love, to adopt children, or to hold a job without fear of being fired due to who they are.

What I do see is a small subset of religious fundamentalists touting themselves as martyrs while hypocritically persecuting others that don’t share their view of the world.

[quote]ZEB wrote:
WE WIN IN THE END[/quote]

It’s not uncommon for fiction to have the “good guys” winning in the end. Of course, who the “good guys” are is a matter of debate.

I think there are a lot of genuinely good Christians out there. However, I think that the fundamentalist sect of Christianity has a lot to answer for.

[quote]forlife wrote:
cap’nsalty wrote:
So please tell me how homosexuality is in fact a safe practice.

If being gay were “unsafe”, the major medical and mental health organizations of the world would not recommend that people embrace their orientation instead of trying to change it.[/quote]

Do you ever get tired of lying?

Instead of posting the usual laundry list of physical and mental problems that homosexual have, I’ll just post a few. That way you will be able to “digest” them better:

“(1998). Hepatitis C: Epidemiology: Transmission Modes. Mortality and Morbidity Weekly Report (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention). Available at: www.cdc.gov/nidod/diseases/hepatitis/c/edu/1/default.htm.
Men who have sex with men who engage in unsafe sexual practices remain at an increased risk for contracting hepatitis C”

"(1999, December). Table 9. Male Adult/Adolescent AIDS Cases by Exposure Category and Race/Ethnicity. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention: Division of HIV/AIDS Prevention.

Men who have sex with men account for 64% of all new HIV cases."

“Cannon, M.J. et al. (2001, March 1). Blood-borne and sexual transmission of human herpesvirus 8 in women with or at risk for human immunodeficiency virus infection. The New England Journal of Medicine. 344 (9): 637-743.
?Human herpesvirus 8 (HHV-8), the causal agent of Kaposi?s sarcoma, is transmitted sexually among homosexual men.”

“Quinn, T.C. (1994). Gay bowel syndrome. The broadened spectrum of non-genital infection. Postgraduate Medicine. 76: 197-198, 201-210.
Rotello, G. (1997). Sexual Ecology: AIDS and the Destiny of Gay Men. NY: Dutton.
Homosexual men have anal cancers at 30 times the rate of heterosexual men.”

“Zmuda, R. (2000, August 17). Rising Rates of Anal Cancer for Gay Men. Cancer News.
?Most instances of anal cancer are caused by a cancer-causing strain of HPV through receptive anal intercourse. HPV infects over 90 percent of HIV-positive gay men and 65 percent of HIV-negative gay men, according to a number of recent studies.”

“Bailey, J.M. (1999, October). Homosexuality and Mental Illness. Archives of General Psychiatry. 56: 883-884.
Homosexual people are at a substantially higher risk for some forms of emotional problems, including suicidality, major depression and anxiety disorder. Gay, lesbian, or bisexual people were at an increased lifetime risk for suicidal ideation and behavior, major depression, generalized anxiety disorder, conduct disorder, and nicotine dependence.”

Keep in mind that the homosexual population is SO VERY UNHEALTHY that it was quite difficult choosing only a handful of negative medical statistics to demonstrate my point.

But by all means look closely at them and feel free to attempt to dispute what you feel is untrue. I stand behind these stats. And I think that we both know being gay is not a safe healthy way to live

But then thousands DO in fact change their same sex attraction. Funny you can’t account for those folks huh?

I do get the feeling you have inserted an index finger one in each ear and are running back and forth saying "no, no, no.

It might be time to take off the blinders and take a look at what you are doing.

[quote]Donut62 wrote:
While the Soviet’s “religious toleration” stance was a facade, tens of millions of Orthodox christians were not slain for being christian. [/quote]

While this is not my bailiwick and I know that stellar is more than capable of giving you the information that you need, I did come up with this for your perusal:

http://www.serfes.org/orthodox/memoryof.htm

It appears from this very preliminary search that stellar is far more right than wrong!

[quote]ZEB wrote:
It might be time to take off the blinders and take a look at what you are doing.
[/quote]

I’ve come to the conclusion that as bizarre as it sounds to me, you believe the lies you are perpetrating. Initially, I thought you were just here for the ego trip, but I think you actually believe that you are doing some good by telling gays to change.

Of course, slave holders in the mid-19th century and most men in the early 20th century were similarly sincere in their views of african americans and women. That didn’t make their discrimination morally acceptable, but they genuinely believed that they were in the right. In both cases, the bigots actually cited the bible to support their discrimination (slavery is condoned in the new testament, and women are seen as second class).

Sound familiar?

No amount of objective evidence is going to change the mind of someone like you with a religious agenda.

It doesn’t matter that your conclusions on homosexuality are directly and unanimously contradicted by every major medical and mental health organization. You believe that the bible has spoken, and therefore everyone else MUST be wrong.

But none of that changes the reality that science is not on your side. Every major medical and mental health association has stated that homosexuality is not a mental illness, and that people should not attempt to change their orientation.

Nothing you say will change that fact.

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Donut62 wrote:
While the Soviet’s “religious toleration” stance was a facade, tens of millions of Orthodox christians were not slain for being christian.

While this is not my bailiwick and I know that stellar is more than capable of giving you the information that you need, I did come up with this for your perusal:

http://www.serfes.org/orthodox/memoryof.htm

It appears from this very preliminary search that stellar is far more right than wrong!
[/quote]

I’ll read it later because I can’t access that page from work, unfortunately. From what I know, it is roughly estimated about 6 million “political enemies” were exiled to Gulags and about 1 million were executed without trial. I can’t back that up right now because I’m at work and leaving for vacation afterwards, but I have not seen any historical evidence to justify the huge numbers that stellar quoted. The Holdomor killed around 10 million Ukranians, many of them members of the Ukranian Orthodox church, but I don’t consider that specfic persecution of christians. It was more of a political statement. Maybe the 90 million includes the deaths in the Russian Civil War following the Bolshevik Revolution. Many leading Orthodox christians allied themselves with the white shirts, who of course lost.

[quote]forlife wrote:

I don’t see many Christians being denied the right to marry people they love, to adopt children,
[/quote]

I don’t see any Christians trying to change a 5000+ year old institution. Or any other group for that matter.

Because that’s what you want to see.

70% of ALL Americans are against gay marriage! How many of those are “fundamentalist Christians?” 15%? 20%?

The average American does not want to embrace the gay lifestyle and welcome it in to our society!

You are going to have to get a firm grip on reality. The fact is there will be NO gay marriage. And gay adoption while allowed in some instances is currently being reversed.

This is America and you can stick your penis into anything, or anyone who is adult and allows it. But that’s as far as it’s going.

Trust me I know these things.

:slight_smile:

[quote]forlife wrote:
ZEB wrote:
WE WIN IN THE END

It’s not uncommon for fiction to have the “good guys” winning in the end. Of course, who the “good guys” are is a matter of debate.

I think there are a lot of genuinely good Christians out there. However, I think that the fundamentalist sect of Christianity has a lot to answer for.
[/quote]

And what about the 70% of Americans who rebuke you and your lifestyle?

Do they have a lot to answer for?

It’s YOU and your “friends” who have a lot to answer for.

And you can start by trying to explain the AIDS epidemic.

[quote]ZEB wrote:
You are going to have to get a firm grip on reality. The fact is there will be NO gay marriage. And gay adoption while allowed in some instances is currently being reversed.
[/quote]

Thanks for reinforcing my point. To say that gays aren’t discriminated against is a crock.

[quote]forlife wrote:
ZEB wrote:
It might be time to take off the blinders and take a look at what you are doing.

I’ve come to the conclusion that as bizarre as it sounds to me, you believe the lies you are perpetrating. Initially, I thought you were just here for the ego trip, but I think you actually believe that you are doing some good by telling gays to change.[/quote]

You have not pointed out even one lie. Do you know thatwhen you accuse someone of lying when you have no proof is actually LYING!

[quote]Of course, slave holders in the mid-19th century and most men in the early 20th century were similarly sincere in their views of african americans and women. That didn’t make their discrimination morally acceptable, but they genuinely believed that they were in the right. In both cases, the bigots actually cited the bible to support their discrimination (slavery is condoned in the new testament, and women are seen as second class).

Sound familiar?[/quote]

Yes, I’ve heard that lame argument from you and your “friends” many times. Let me point something out:

BEING A WOMAN OR A MINORITY IS GENETIC

No one knows why people are homosexual. But for sure there is no proof that it’s genetic.

TRY AGAIN.

Or someone like you with a homosexual agenda! You are the one who has to protect your lifestyle, not me my friend.

You sit there and spout off but have yet to respond as to why the homosexual health stats look so bleak.

Why is that?

No answer huh?

The politically correct are doomed when you throw facts at them, and you are a good example of that.

And not one of your organizations claims that it’s safe to have homosexual sex!

And not one of your organizations claims that the statistics that I have posted are wrong!

I agree nothing will change the fact that you are wrong and you cannot refute the volumes of damaging health stats that I have posted.

You don’t even try!

:slight_smile: