Brokeback Propaganda

[ZEB]

[quote]forlife wrote:
ZEB wrote:
No…according to every available health statistic regarding homosexuals!

Every major medical and mental health organization in the world disagrees with you.[/quote]

There you go again LYING!

Not one of your precious organizations claim that homosexuals are healthier than heterosexuals!

Not even political correctness can prevent homosexuals from having a higher incidence of HIV, STD’s and most communicable diseases. They can’t prevent homosexuals from becoming more depressed, anxious and suicidal.

It’s the lifesytle that kills them. And it’s sad indeed.

[quote]
Homosexuality is not a mental illness, people don’t choose their sexual orientation, people cannot generally change their orientation, and attempting to do so can be DAMAGING and is NOT RECOMMENDED.[/quote]

If they are not born that way (and there is no proof that they are), and they can have sex with women (87% of them can) then who is forcing them to be homosexual?

And certainly NOT changing causes more physical and emotional damage than attempting to change.

You attempted to change and failed. Are you in bad shape right now?

Try telling the truth…you might get used to it and like it.

[forlife]

At this point, you’re only repeating yourself, Zeb.

I’ve shown over and over (and OVER) again that your conclusions about homosexuality are DIRECTLY AND CONCLUSIVELY CONTRADICTED BY EVERY MAJOR MEDICAL AND MENTAL HEALTH ORGANIZATION.

You can’t deny that, and you have no answer for it.

You accuse every major medical and mental health organization of being politically biased, while quoting NARTH (an organization with a blatant homophobic agenda) to support your religious crusade.

I know you believe your mission of deception is justified because your “god” has said homosexuality is a sin. But that doesn’t change the commandment from your “god” not to bear false witness.

It also doesn’t change the OBJECTIVE REALITY that every major medical and mental health organization in the world DIRECTLY CONTRADICTS YOUR LIES ABOUT HOMOSEXUALITY.

If people are stupid enough at this point to listen to you, I wash my hands of them. I think most are not though, and that people are not going to take your word over the word of organizations like the American Medical Association, the American Academy of Pediatrics, the Surgeon General, the American Association of Social Workers, and the World Health Organization.

Bottom line:

Your lies don’t hold up under scientific scrutiny, and the major medical and mental health organizations of the world have more credibility than you do.

[ZEB]

[quote]forlife wrote:
At this point, you’re only repeating yourself, Zeb.[/quote]

Don’t look now Bub, but we have been doing that for at least 25 pages.

I’ve shown over and over (and OVER) again that your conclusions about homosexuality are DIRECTLY AND CONCLUSIVELY CONTRADICTED BY EVERY MAJOR MEDICAL AND MENTAL HEALTH ORGANIZATION.

Not one of them ever reached a conclusion that homosexuals were happier, and healthier than the general public.

In fact it’s the opposite!

I know you believe your mission of deception is justified because your “god” has said homosexuality is a sin. But that doesn’t change the commandment from your “god” not to bear false witness.

And I know that your mission is to spread as much homosexual propaganda as you can. And why? Because you are a homosexual man with an agenda that must be satisfied.

(And since you keep bringing up the Bible let me remind you of what it states: “No homosexual shall inherit the kingdom of heaven.”

That meams you’re out, at this point at least.

It also doesn’t change the OBJECTIVE REALITY that every major medical and mental health organization in the world DIRECTLY CONTRADICTS YOUR LIES ABOUT HOMOSEXUALITY.

That is just another one of your LIES.

Not one of them contradict the safety factor in being a homosexual male!

Not one pal!

If people are stupid enough at this point to listen to you, I wash my hands of them.

You better wash more than that if you keep doing what you’re doing.

I think most are not though, and that people are not going to take your word

They don’t have to take my word for anything.

I have supplied volumes of data which speaks to the dangerous lifestyle and (main sex act) that homosexuals live.

I have also put forth more volumes of data which clearly demonstrate that there are many ways out of homosexuality. And that thousands of men have taken that very step and are now happily married.

That you are not one of them makes you look small and bitter, and I hope that’s not the case.

Your lies don’t hold up under scientific scrutiny, and the major medical and mental health organizations of the world have more credibility than you do.

As I have stated I don’t want anyone to take my word for it. All they have to do is look at the facts.

There is NO HEALTH ORGANIZATION which claims that being a homosexual is a healthier, happier lifestyle than being a heterosexual.

The fact that you are implying this is dishonest! And you have done this through out the debate.

All anyone has to do is read these facts, which you have been unable to contradict in many pages of debate:

No one can dispute these facts and figures!

Physical Health

(1993). STD Treatment Guidelines: Proctitis, Proctocolitis, and Enteritis. (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention). Available at: www.ama-assn.org/special/std/treatmnt/guide/stdg3470.htm.
GBS problems such as proctitis, proctocolitis, and enteritis as ?sexually transmitted gastrointestinal syndromes.?
(1998). Hepatitis C: Epidemiology: Transmission Modes. Mortality and Morbidity Weekly Report (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention). Available at: www.cdc.gov/nidod/diseases/hepatitis/c/edu/1/default.htm.
Men who have sex with men who engage in unsafe sexual practices remain at an increased risk for contracting hepatitis C.
(1998, September 4). Mortality and Morbidity Weekly Report (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention). p. 708.
?Outbreaks of hepatitis A among men who have sex with men are a recurring problem in many large cities in the industrialized world.?
(1999, December). Table 9. Male Adult/Adolescent AIDS Cases by Exposure Category and Race/Ethnicity. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention: Division of HIV/AIDS Prevention. Available at www.cdc.gov/hiv/stats/hasr1102/table9.
?Men who have sex with men? and ?men who have sex with men and inject drugs? together accounted for 64 percent of the cumulative total of male AIDS cases.
(1999, January 29). Increases in unsafe sex and rectal gonorrhea among men who have sex with men ? San Francisco, California, 1994-1997. Mortality and Morbidity Weekly Report (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention). p. 45.
According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), from 1994 to 1997 the proportion of homosexuals reporting having had anal sex increased from 57.6 percent to 61.2 percent, while the percentage of those reporting ?always? using condoms declined from 69.6 percent to 60 percent.
The proportion of men reporting having multiple sex partners and unprotected anal sex increased from 23.6 percent to 33.3 percent.
(1999, January 29). Mortality and Morbidity Weekly Report (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention). p. 48.
Male rectal gonorrhea is increasing among homosexuals amidst an overall decline in national gonorrhea rates.
(2000, November 14). Young People at Risk: HIV/AIDS among America?s Youth. Divisions of HIV/AIDS Prevention (Centers for Disease Control). Available at: www.cdc.gov/hiv/pubs/facts/youth.htm.
?At least half of all new HIV infections in the United States are among people under twenty-five, and the majority of young people are infected sexually.? By the end of 1999, 29,629 young people aged thirteen to twenty-four were diagnosed with AIDS in the United States. MSM were the single largest risk category: in 1999, for example, 50 percent of all new AIDS cases were reported among young homosexuals.
(2000, September 29). Viral Hepatitis B ? Frequently Asked Questions. National Center for Infectious Diseases (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention). Available at: Division of Viral Hepatitis | CDC.
Men who have sex with men are at increased risk for hepatitis B.
Increases in unsafe sex and rectal gonorrhea among men who have sex with men ? San Francisco, California, 1994-1997. Journal of the American Medical Association. 281 (8): 696-697.
Interviews of 21, 850 males: Increasing percentages of men who have sex with men reported engaging in unprotected anal intercourse. There was an Increase in rectal gonorrhea rates.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention: Morbidity and Morality Weekly Report. 51 (33): 733-736.
920 young black males, ages 15-22, who have sex with men, have very high rates (16%) of HIV infection.
Beral, et al., op cit.; Corey, Lawrence, and King K. Holmes. (1980, February 21). Sexual Transmission of Hepatitis A in Homosexual Men. The New England Journal of Medicine. 302: (8) 435-438.

Bradford, J. (2002, July 10). Lesbian and bisexual health: an overview for healthcare providers. Journal Watch Women?s Health [On-line], Available: womens-health.jwatch.org.
Lesbian and bisexual women have higher reported rates of risk for cancer and cardiovascular disease as well as obesity and High rates of human papilloma virus infection.
Calabrese, L. Harris, B., Easley, K. (1987) Analysis of variables impacting on safe sexual behavior among homosexual men in the area of low incidence for AIDS. Paper presented at the Third International Conference for AIDS. Washington DC. (in Stall 1988)
Sample of gay men living outside of the large coastal gay communities, found that neither attendance at a safe sex lecture, reading a safe sex brochure, receiving advice from a physician about AIDS, testing for HIV antibodies, nor counseling at an alternative test site was associated with participation in safe sex.
Cannon, M.J. et al. (2001, March 1). Blood-borne and sexual transmission of human herpesvirus 8 in women with or at risk for human immunodeficiency virus infection. The New England Journal of Medicine. 344 (9): 637-743.
?Human herpesvirus 8 (HHV-8), the causal agent of Kaposi?s sarcoma, is transmitted sexually among homosexual men.?
Cochran, S.D. et al. (2001 April). Cancer-related risk indicators and preventive screening behaviors among lesbians and bisexual women. American Journal of Public Health. 91 (4); 178-81.
Increased prevalence rates were found in lesbian/bisexual women for obesity, alcohol use, and tobacco use.
Daling, J.R. et al. (1987, October 15). Sexual practices, sexually transmitted diseases, and the incidence of anal cancer. The New England Journal of Medicine. 317 (16): 973-977.
Anal cancers was strongly associated with a history of male homosexual activity.
Fethers, K. et al. (2000, July). Sexually Transmitted Infections and Risk Behaviors in Women Who Have Sex with Women. Sexually Transmitted Infections. p. 345.
Women who have sexual relations with women are at significantly higher risk for certain sexually transmitted diseases: ?BV (bacterial vaginosis), hepatitis C, and HIV risk behaviors in WSW as compared with controls.?
Frieberg, P. (2001, January 12). Study: Alcohol Use More Prevalent for Lesbians. The Washington Blade. p. 21.
Lesbian women consume alcohol more frequently, and in larger amounts, than heterosexual women. Lesbians were at significantly greater risk than heterosexual women for both binge drinking (19.4 percent compared to 11.7 percent), and for heavy drinking (7 percent compared to 2.7 percent).
Frisch, M.F. et al. (1997, November 6). Sexually transmitted infection as a cause of anal cancer. The New England Journal of Medicine. 337 (19): 1350-1358.
In a study of 324 women and 93 men with invasive or in situ anal cancer, findings supported the previously recognized association between anal cancer and homosexual contact.
Garbo, J. (2000, July 18). Gay and Bisexual Men Less Likely to Disclose They Have HIV. Gay Health News. Available at www.gayhealth.com/templates/0/news?record=136.
Thirty-six percent of homosexuals engaging in unprotected oral, anal, or vaginal sex failed to disclose that they were HIV positive to casual sex partners.
45 percent of homosexuals reporting having had unprotected anal intercourse during the previous six months did not know the HIV serostatus of all their sex partners. 68 percent did not know the HIV serostatus of their partners.
Hastings, G.E., Weber, R.W. (1993). Inflammatory bowel disease: Part I. Clinical features and diagnosis. American Family Physician. 47: 598-608.

Hogg, R.S. et al. (1997). Modeling the impact of HIV disease on mortality in gay and bisexual men. International Journal of Epidemiology. 26 (3): 657-661.
?Life expectancy at age 20 years for gay and bisexual men is 8 to 20 years less than for all men. If the same pattern of mortality were to continue, we estimate that nearly half of gay and bisexual men currently aged 20 years will not reach their 65th birthday.?
Hoover, D., Munoz, A., Carey, V., Chmiel, J., Taylor, J., Margolick, J., Kingsley, L., Vermund, S. (1991) Estimating the 1978-1990 and future spread of human immunodeficiency virus type 1 in subgroups of homosexual men. American Journal of Epidemiology. 134, 10:1190-1205.
?The overall probability of seroconversion [from HIV- to HIV+] prior to age 55 years is about 50%, with seroconversion still continuing at and after age 55. Given that this cohort consists of volunteers receiving extensive and anti-HIV-1 transmission education, the future seroconversion rates of the general homosexual population may be even higher.
Jaffe, et al., op cit.; Quinn, Thomas C., et al. (1983, September 8). The Polymicrobial Origin of Intestinal Infections in Homosexual Men. The New England Journal of Medicine. 309: (10) 576-582.

Judson, F.N. et al. (1980). Comparative Prevalence Rates of Sexually Transmitted Diseases in Heterosexual and Homosexual Men. The American Journal of Epidemiology. 112: 836-843.

Laughon, B.E., Druckman, D.A., et al., (1988). Prevalence of enteric pathogens in homosexual men with and without acquired immunodeficiency syndrome. Gastroenterology. 94: 984-993.

Miles, A.J. et al. (1993, March). Effect of anorreceptive intercourse on anorectal function. Journal of the Royal Society of Medicine. 83: (3) 144-147.

Morris, M., Dean, L., (1994) Effects of sexual behavior change on long-term human immunodeficiency virus prevalence among homosexual men. American Journal of Epidemiology. 140, 3: 217-232.

Osmond, D., Page, K., Wiley, J., Garrett, K., Sheppard, H., Moss, A., Schrager, K., Winkelstein, W., (1994) HIV infection in homosexual and bisexual men 18 to 29 years of age: The San Francisco young men?s health study. American Journal of Public Health. 84, 12: 1933-1937.
Household survey of unmarried men 18 through 29 years of age found that of 328 homosexual men 20.1% tested positive tested for HIV.
Pauk, J., et al. (2000, November 9). Mucosal shedding of human herpesvirus 8 in men. The New England Journal of Medicine. 343: 1369-1377.
Human herpesvirus 8 (HHV-8) is likely the cause of Kaposi?s Sarcoma. Its prevalence in men who have sex with men is much higher than in the general population.
Quinn, T.C. (1984). Gay bowel syndrome. The broadened spectrum of non-genital infection. Postgraduate Medicine. 76: 197-198, 201-210.
Rotello, G. (1997). Sexual Ecology: AIDS and the Destiny of Gay Men. NY: Dutton.
?Who wants to encourage their kids to engage in a life that exposes them to a 50 percent chance of HIV infection? Who even wants to be neutral about such a possibility? If the rationale behind social tolerance of homosexuality is that it allows gay kids an equal shot at the pursuit of happiness, that rationale is hopelessly undermined by an endless epidemic that negates happiness.? (p. 286)
Roundy, B. (2000, December 8). STD?s Up Among Gay Men: CDC Says Rise is Due to HIV Misperceptions. The Washington Blade. Available at: www.washblade.com/health/a.
"A San Francisco study of Gay and bisexual men revealed that HPV infection was almost universal among HIV-positive men, and that 60 percent of HIV-negative men carried HPV.
Schwabke, J.R. (1991, April). Syphilis in the 90s. Medical Aspects of Human Sexuality. 44-49.
Syphilis and gonorrhea are rising in the homosexual and bisexual population.
Shehan, D.A. et al. (2003). HIV/STD Risks in Young Men Who Have Sex with Men Who Do Not Disclose Their sexual Orientation. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention: Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report. 52: 81-86.
Young MSM who do not disclose their sexual orientation (non-disclosers) are thought to be at particularly high risk for human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) infection because of low self-esteem, depression, or lack of peer support and prevention services that are available to MSM who are more open about their sexuality (disclosers).
Smith, T.W. (1991, May/June). Adult Sexual Behavior in 1989: Number of Partners, Frequency of Intercourse and Risk of AIDS. Family Planning Perspectives. 23: (3) 102-107 (Table 2, 104).

Valleroy, L.A. et al. (2000, July 12). HIV prevalence and associated risks in young men who have sex with men. Journal of the American Medical Association. 284 (2): 198-204.
Men who have sex with men were found to have a 100 to 700 times greater prevalence rate of HIV infection than primarily heterosexual men who applied for service in the U.S. military. Men who have sex with men were also found to have a high prevalence of hepatitis B viral markers (10.7%). High HIV rates were correlated with anal sex and having had sex with 20 or more men.
Zavodnick, J.M. (1989, January). Detection and Management of Sexual Abuse of Boys. Medical Aspects of Human Sexuality. 80-90.
?Sixteen percent of adult men in the general population have said they were sexually abused as children.?
Zmuda, R. (2000, August 17). Rising Rates of Anal Cancer for Gay Men. Cancer News. Available at: cancerlinksusa.com/cancernews_sm/Aug2000/081700analcancer.
?Most instances of anal cancer are caused by a cancer-causing strain of HPV through receptive anal intercourse. HPV infects over 90 percent of HIV-positive gay men and 65 percent of HIV-negative gay men, according to a number of recent studies.?

Mental Health & Substance Abuse

Aaron, D.J., Markovic, N., Danielson, M.E., et al. (2001). Behavioral risk factors for disease and preventive health practices among lesbians. American Journal of Public Health. 91 (6): 972-975.
Lesbians were more likely to report cigarette use, alcohol use, and heavy alcohol use.
Bailey, J.M. (1999, October). Homosexuality and Mental Illness. Archives of General Psychiatry. 56: 883-884.
?Homosexual people are at a substantially higher risk for some forms of emotional problems, including suicidality, major depression and anxiety disorder. Gay, lesbian, or bisexual people were at an increased lifetime risk for suicidal ideation and behavior, major depression, generalized anxiety disorder, conduct disorder, and nicotine dependence.?
Beitchman, J., Zucker, K., Hood, J., DaCosta, G., Akman, D. (1991) A review of the short-term effects of child sexual abuse. Child Abuse & Neglect. 15:257-556.
?Among adolescents, commonly reported sequalae (of child sexual abuse) include sexual dissatisfaction, promiscuity, homosexuality, and an increased risk for re-victimization.? (p. 537)
?A review of studies reporting symptomology among sexually abused adolescents revealed evidence for the presence of depression, low self-esteem, and suicidal ideation.? (p. 544)
Bradford, J. et al. (1994). National Lesbian Health Care Survey: Implications for Mental Health Care. Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology. 62: 239, cited in Health Implications Associated with Homosexuality, p. 81.
More than half of lesbians had felt too nervous to accomplish ordinary activities at some time during the past year and over one-third had been depressed.
Bradley, S., Zucker, K. (1997) Gender identity disorder: A review of the past 10 Years. Journal of the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry. 34, 7:872-880.
?Girls with GID [Gender Identity Disorder] ?have difficulty connecting with their mothers, who are perceived as weak and ineffective. We see this perception as arising from the high levels of psychopathology observed in these mothers, especially severe depression and borderline personality disorder.? (p. 877)
?In our female adolescents with GID, a history of sexual abuse or fears of sexual aggression has appeared commonly.? (p. 878)
Cochran, S.D., Mays, V.M. (2000). Relation between psychiatric syndromes and behaviorally defined sexual orientation in a sample of the US population. American Journal of Epidemiology. 151 (5): 516-523.
Homosexually active men were more likely than other men to have evidence of major depression and panic attack syndromes. Homosexually active women were more likely than other women to be classified with alcohol or drug dependency syndromes. Both men and women reporting any same-gender sex partners were more likely than others to have used mental health services.
Diamant, A.L., Wold, C., Sritzer, K., Gelberg, L. (2000, November-December). Health Behaviors, Health Status, and Access to and Use of Health Care. Archives of Family Medicine. 9: 1043-1051.
Lesbians and bisexual women were more likely than heterosexual women to use tobacco products and to report any alcohol consumption, but only lesbians were significantly more likely than heterosexual women to drink heavily.
Fergusson, D., Horwood., L., Beautrais, A. (1999) Is sexual orientation related to mental health problems and suicidality in young people? Archives of General Psychiatry. 56, 10:876-888.
The gay, lesbian, bisexual subjects have significantly higher rates of: suicidal ideation (67.9%/29.0%), suicide attempt (32.1%/7.1%), and psychiatric disorders age 14-21 ? major depression (71.4%/38.2%), generalized anxiety disorder (28.5%/12.5%), conduct disorder (32.1%11.0%), nicotine dependence (64.3%/26.7%), other substance abuse/dependence (60.7%/44.3%), and multiple disorders (78.6%/38.2%) than the heterosexual sample. (p. 879)
Findings support recent evidence suggesting that gay, lesbian, and bisexual young people are at increased risk of mental health problems, with these associations being particularly evident for measures of suicidal behavior and multiple disorder.
Fifield, L., Latham, J., Phillips, C. (1977) Alcoholism in the Gay Community: The Price of Alienation, Isolation and Oppression, A Project of the Gay Community Service Center, Los Angeles, CA.
??an alarming number of gay men and women (31.96%) are trapped in an alcohol-centered lifestyle.?
Garafolo, R., Wolf, R., Kessel, S., Palfrey, J., DuRant, R., (1998) The association between health risk behaviors and sexual orientation among a school-based sample of adolescents: Youth risk behavior survey. Pediatrics. 101, 5:895-903.
?Gay and bisexual teenagers may take more risks, and engage in risky behavior earlier in life, than teenagers who describe themselves as heterosexual. GLB [gay, lesbian, bisexual] teenagers were more likely to consider or attempt suicide, abuse alcohol or drugs, participate in risky sexual activity, or be victimized, and to initiate these behaviors earlier.?
Gilman, S.E., Cochran, S.D., Mays, V.M., et al. (2001) Risk of psychiatric disorders among individuals reporting same-sex sexual partners in the National Comorbidity Survey. American Journal of Public Health. 91 (6): 933-939.
Higher 12-month prevalences of anxiety, mood, and substance use disorders and of suicidal thoughts and plans than did respondents with opposite-sex partners only. Homosexual orientation, defined as having same-sex sexual partners, is associated with a general elevation of risk for anxiety, mood, and substance use disorders and for suicidal thoughts and plans.
Herrell, R. et al. (1999, October). Sexual Orientation and Suicidality: a Co-Twin Control Study in Adult Men. Archives of General Psychiatry. 56 (10): 867-874.
This study of male twins who were Vietnam veterans found that male homosexuals were 5.1 times more likely to experience suicidal thoughts and behaviors than were their heterosexual twins.
Jorm, A.F. et al. (2002). Sexually orientation and mental health: results from a community survey of young and middle-aged adults. British Journal of Psychiatry. 180: 423-427.
The bisexual group was highest on measures of anxiety, depression and negative affect, with the homosexual group falling between the other two groups. Both the bisexual and homosexual groups were high on suicidality.
McKirnan, D.J., Peterson, P.L., (1989). Alcohol and drug use among homosexual men and women: epidemiology and population characteristics. Addictive Behavior. 14 (5): 545-553.
?This paper presents the findings of a large (n-3400) survey of the homosexual population?Substantially higher proportions of the homosexual sample used alcohol, marijuana, or cocaine than was the case in the general population.?
Moran, N. (1996, May). Lesbian health care needs. Canadian Family Physician. 42: 879-884.
Lesbians were found to smoke, drink alcohol and use caffeine more than other women.
Mulry, G., Kalichman, S., Kelly, J. (1994) ?Substance use and unsafe sex among gay men: Global versus situational use of substances. Journal of Sex Educators and Therapy. 20, 3: 175-184.
??men who never drank prior to sex were very unlikely to have engaged in unprotected anal intercourse, whereas 90% of men who had at least one occasion of unprotected anal intercourse also drank at least some of the time prior to sexual intercourse.? ??a virtual absence of individuals who did not drink but did engage unprotected anal intercourse.? (p. 181)
Parris, J., Zweig-Frank, H., Guzder, J. (1995) Psychological factors associated with homosexuality in males with borderline personality disorders. Journal of Personality Disorders. 9, 11: 56-61.
The rate of homosexuality in the BPD [Borderline Personality Disorder] sample was 16.7%, as compared with 1.7% in the non-BPD comparison group. The homosexual BPD group had a rate of overall Childhood Sexual Abuse of 100% as compared to 37.3% for the heterosexual BPD group. ?It is interesting that 3 out of 10 homosexual borderline patients also reported father-son incest.? (p. 59)
Remafedi, G. (1999, October). Suicide and Sexual Orientation. Archives of General Psychiatry. 56: 885-886.
The 1989 Report of the Secretary?s Task Force on Youth Suicide concluded that ?gay youth are 2 to 3 times more likely to attempt suicide than other young people. They may comprise up to 30% of completed youth suicides annually. To date, at least 10 peer-reviewed studies have found unusually high rates of attempted suicide, in the range of 20% to 42% among young bisexual and homosexual research volunteers. All have found a clinically and statistically significant association between suicide attempts and homosexuality, strongest among males.
Ritter, Malcolm (May 1999) Study: Some Gays Can Go Straight, Associated Press.
“Perhaps the most significant study to date was reported by Robert L. Spitzer, MD at the American Psychiatric Association. In his research, Dr. Spitzer studied 200 men and women who had participated in gender affirmative therapy. He concluded that 66% of the men and 44% of the women had arrived at what he called good heterosexual functioning. In addition, 89% of the men and 95% of the women said they were bothered slightly, or not at all, by unwanted homosexual feelings.”
Rogers, C., Roback, H., McKee, E., Calhoun, D. (1976) Group psychotherapy with homosexuals: A review. International Journal of Group Psychotherapy. 31, 3: 3-27
?In general, reports on the group treatment of homosexuals are optimistic; in almost all cases the therapists report a favorable outcome of therapy whether the therapeutic goal was one of achieving a change in sexual orientation or whether it was a reduction in concomitant problems.? (p.22)
Saghir, J., Robins, E. (1973) Male and Female Homosexuality: A Comprehensive Investigation. Baltimore MD: Williams & Wilkins.
30% of the homosexuals in their sample reported excessive drinking or alcohol dependence. (p. 119)
The average male homosexual live-in relationship lasts between two and three years (p. 225)
Sandfort, T.G., de Graaf, R., Bijl, R.V., Schnabel, P. (2001, January). Same-Sex Sexual Behavior and Psychiatric Disorders: findings from the Netherlands mental health survey and incidence study. (NEMESIS). Archives of General Psychiatry. 58: 85-91.
A Dutch study of 5998 heterosexual and homosexual men and women showed that ?psychiatric disorders were more prevalent among homosexually active people compared with heterosexually active people?On a lifetime basis, homosexual women had a significantly higher prevalence of general mood disorders and major depression than did heterosexual women?Lifetime prevalence of both alcohol and other drug dependence was also significantly higher in homosexual women than in heterosexual women.?
Skegg, K. et al. (2003, March). Sexual orientation and self-harm in men and women. American Journal of Psychiatry. 160 (3): 541-546.
New Zealand study of 770 heterosexual men and women and 172 men and women who experienced different degrees of same sex attraction, the authors found: That attempts to inflict self harm increase with the degree of homosexual attraction. There were elevated rates of substance abuse in both sexes experiencing same sex attraction. This was particularly prominent in lesbians.
Valamis, B.G., Bowen, D.J., Bassford, T., et al. (2000, September-October). Sexual Orientation and Health. Archives of Family Medicine. 9: 843-853.
Lesbian and bisexual women more often used alcohol and cigarettes, exhibited other risk factors for reproductive cancers and cardiovascular disease, and scored lower on measures of mental health and social support.
Whitehead, Neil, Whitehead, Brian. (1999) My Genes Made Me Do It! A Scientific Look at Sexual Orientation, 158-159.
Neil Whitehead tabulated other twin studies on other topics and those traits’ heritability: lying–43%, anorexia nervosa–44%, fear of the unknown–46%, psychological inpatient care–47%, extroversion–50%, depression–50%, altruism–50%, divorce–52%, racial prejudice, bigotry–70%.
“(Dean) Hamer’s genetic sequences have been calculated to affect about 5% of the homosexual population, so even if he is correct, there must be some other explanation for what causes the vast majority of homosexuality.”
“If a hormonal imbalance was responsible for homosexuality, then perhaps a simple dose of hormones to an adult would cure homosexuality. This is not the case, as has been demonstrated several times.”
Zubenko, G., George, A., Soloff, P., Schulz, P. (1987) Sexual practices among patients with borderline personality disorder. American Journal Psychiatry. 144, 6: 748-752.
?Homosexuality was 10 times more common among the men and six times more common among the women with borderline personality disorder than in the general population or in a depressed control group.? (p. 748)

FINALLY For you to state that trying to change can be harmful dies ane extreme disservice to the young men out there struggling with same sex attraction.

The fact is, NOT TO TRY TO CHANGE is extrememly dangerous to your physical and emotional health!

[forlife]

[quote]ZEB wrote:
There is NO HEALTH ORGANIZATION which claims that being a homosexual is a healthier, happier lifestyle than being a heterosexual.
[/quote]

Lol, I’ll give you that. Of course, it has nothing to do with what is being discussed here.

EVERY MAJOR MEDICAL AND MENTAL HEALTH ORGANIZATION RECOMMENDS AGAINST ATTEMPTING TO CHANGE ONE’S SEXUAL ORIENTATION, BECAUSE DOING SO CAN BE DAMAGING!!!

Read the above 10 times and get back to me when you have a sane response.

[ZEB]

[quote]forlife wrote:
ZEB wrote:
There is NO HEALTH ORGANIZATION which claims that being a homosexual is a healthier, happier lifestyle than being a heterosexual.

Lol, I’ll give you that. Of course, it has nothing to do with what is being discussed here.

EVERY MAJOR MEDICAL AND MENTAL HEALTH ORGANIZATION RECOMMENDS AGAINST ATTEMPTING TO CHANGE ONE’S SEXUAL ORIENTATION, BECAUSE DOING SO CAN BE DAMAGING!!!

Read the above 10 times and get back to me when you have a sane response.[/quote]

Yes, I know you like to rely on that line. But the fact remains that people can and do change everyday.

Now how do you suppose that they do it if it were impossible?

[bChanging Sexual Orientation or Behavior.[/b]

(May 9, 2001). Press Release, National Association for Research & Therapy of Homosexuality, Prominent Psychiatrist Announces New Study Results: “Some Gays can Change.” Available at http://www.narth.com/docs/spitzerrelease.html (last updated May 8, 2001.)
“Like most psychiatrists,” says Dr. Robert L. Spitzer, “I thought that homosexual behavior could be resisted, but sexual orientation could not be changed. I now believe that’s untrue–some people can and do change.”
Acosta, F., (1975) Etiology and treatment of homosexuality: review. Archives of Sexual Behavior. 4:9-29.
??better prospects for intervention in homosexual life and in its prevention through the early identification and treatment of the potential homosexual child.? (p. 9)
Aries, P. and A. Bejin, ed., Male Homosexuality in Western Sexuality: Practice and Precept in Past and Present Times, 40-61, cited by Joseph Nicolosi in Reparative Therapy of Male Homosexuality. Northvale, NJ: Jason Aronson Inc., 1991), 124-125.

Bieber, I., et al. (1962) Homosexuality: A Psychoanalytic Study of Male Homosexuals. NY: Basic Books.
?The therapeutic results of our study provide reason for an optimistic outlook. Many homosexuals became exclusively heterosexual in psychoanalytic treatment. Although this change may be more easily accomplished by some than by others, in our judgment a heterosexual shift is a possibility for all homosexuals who are strongly motivated to change.? (p. 319)
Bieber, I., Bieber, T. (1979) Male homosexuality. Canadian Journal of Psychiatry. 24, 5:409-421.
?We have followed some patients for as long as 20 years who have remained exclusively heterosexual. Reversal estimates now range from 30% to an optimistic 50%.? (p.416)
Cappon, D., (1965) Toward an Understanding of Homosexuality. Englewoord Cliffs NJ: Prentice-Hall.
Of patients with bisexual problems 90% were cured (i.e., no reversions to homosexual behavior, no consciousness of homosexual desire and fantasy) in males who terminated treatment by common consent. Male homosexual patients: 80% showed marked improvement (i.e., occasional relapses, release of aggression, increasingly dominant heterosexuality)? 50% changed.? (p. 265-268)
Clippinger, J., (1974) Homosexuality can be cured. Corrective and Social Psychiatry and Journal of Behavior Technology Methods and Therapy. 21, 2:15-28.
?Of 785 patients treated, 307, or approximately 38%, were cured. Adding the percentage figures of the two other studies, we can say that at least 40% of the homosexuals were cured, and an additional 10 to 30% of the homosexuals were improved, depending on the particular study for which statistics were available.? (p. 22)
Fine, R., (1987) Psychoanalytic theory. (in Diamant L. Male and Female Homosexuality: Psychological Approaches. Washington: Hemisphere Publishing.) 81-95.
??a considerable percentage of overt homosexuals became heterosexual? If patients were motivated, whatever procedure is adopted a large percentage will give up their homosexuality? The misinformation that homosexuality is untreatable by psychotherapy does incalculable harm to thousands of men and women?? (p. 85-86)
Fitzgibbons, R., (1999) The origins and therapy of same-sex attraction disorder. (in Wolfe, C. Homosexuality and American Public Life. Spence) 85-97.
"The second most common cause of SSAD [same sex attraction disorder] among males is mistrust of women?s love? Male children in fatherless homes often feel overly responsible for their mothers. As they enter their adolescence, they may come to view female love as draining and exhausting.? (p. 89)
?Experience has taught me that healing is a difficult process, but through the mutual efforts of the therapist and the patient, serious emotional wounds can be healed over a period of time.? (p. 96)
Goetze, R. (1997) Homosexuality and the Possibility of Change: A Review of 17 Published Studies. Toronto Canada: New Directions for Life.
44 persons who were exclusively or predominantly homosexual experienced a full shift of sexual orientation.
Hatterer, L., (1970) Changing Homosexuality in the Male. NY: McGraw-Hill.
49 patients changed (20 married, of these 10 remained married, 2 divorced, 18 achieved heterosexual adjustments); 18 partially recovered, remained single; 76 remained homosexual (28 palliated ? 58 unchanged) ?A large undisclosed population has melted into heterosexual society, persons who behaved homosexually in late adolescence and early adulthood, and who, on their own, resolved their conflicts and abandoned such behavior to go on to successful marriages or to bisexual patterns of adoption.? (p. 14)
James, Elizabeth (1978) Treatment of Homosexuality: A Reanalysis and Synthesis of Outcome Studies (unpublished PhD dissertation, Brigham Young University, on file with Brigham Young University Library).
Elizabeth James meta-analyzed over 100 outcome studies published between 1930 and 1976, and concluded that when all the research was combines, 35% of homosexual clients “recovered” and 27% improved.
Kaye, H., Beri, S., Clare, J., Eleston, M., Gershwin, B., Gershwin, P., Kogan, L., Torda, C., Wilber, C. (1967) Homosexuality in Women. Archives of General Psychiatry. 17:626-634.
??optimism in the psychoanalytic treatment of homosexual women. ?at least a 50% probability of significant improvement in women with this syndrome who present themselves for treatment and remain in it.? (p. 634)
Kronemeyer, R. (1980) Overcoming Homosexuality. NY: Macmillian
?For those homosexuals who are unhappy with their life and find effective therapy it is ?curable?.? (p.7)
MacIntosh, H. (1994) Attitudes and experiences of psychoanalysts. Journal of the American Psychoanalytic Association. 42, 4: 1183-1207.
824 male patients of 213 analysts ? 197 (23.9%) changed to heterosexuality, 703 received significant therapeutic benefit; and of the 391 female patients of 153 analysts ? 79 (20.2%) changed to heterosexuality, 318 received significant therapeutic benefit. (p. 1183)
MacIntosh, H. (1995) Attitudes and Experiences of Psychoanalysts in Analyzing Homosexual Patients. Journal of the American Psychiatric Association 1183.
422 psychiatrists were asked if they had successfully treated homosexuals, and did they agree that a homosexual can be changed to heterosexual. Of the 285 responses, which involved 1,215 homosexuals, the survey stated that 23% changed to heterosexuality. 84% benefited significantly by reducing their attraction to other members of the same gender, with a decrease in homosexual activity.
Marmor, J. (1975) Homosexuality and Sexual Orientation Disturbances. (In Freedman, A., Kaplan, H., Sadock, B. Comprehensive Textbook of Psychiatry: II, Second Edition. Baltimore MD: Williams & Wilkins)
?This conviction of untreatability also serves an ego-defensive purpose for many homosexuals. ?however, there has evolved a greater therapeutic optimism about the possibilities for change? There is little doubt that a genuine shift in preferential sex object choice can and does take place in somewhere between 20 and 50 per cent of patients with homosexual behavior who seek psychotherapy with this end in mind.? (p. 1519)
Newman, L., (1976) Treatment for the parents of feminine boys. American Journal of Psychiatry. 133, 6: 683-687.
?Experiences of being ostracized and ridiculed may play a more important role than has been recognized in the total abandonment of the male role at a later time.? (p. 687)
?Feminine boys, unlike men with postpubertal gender identity disorders seem remarkably responsive to treatment.? (p. 684)
Nicolosi, J., Byrd, A., Potts, R. (1998) Towards the Ethical and Effective Treatment of Homosexuality. Encino CA: NARTH.
Nicolosi surveyed 850 individuals and 200 therapists and counselors ? specifically seeking out individuals who claim to have made a degree of change in sexual orientation. Before counseling or therapy, 68% of respondents perceived themselves as exclusively or almost entirely homosexual, with another 22% stating they were more homosexual than heterosexual. After treatment only 13% perceived themselves as exclusively or almost entire homosexuality, while 33% described themselves as either exclusively or almost entirely heterosexual, 99% of respondents said they now believe treatment to change homosexuality can be effective and valuable.
Pattison, E.M., Pattison, M.L. (1980, December) ?Ex-Gays?: Religiously Mediated Change in Homosexuals. American Journal of Psychiatry. 137 (12): 1553-1562.
Authors evaluated 11 white men who claimed to have changed sexual orientation from exclusive homosexuality to exclusive heterosexuality. Corollary evidence suggests that the phenomenon of substantiated change in sexual orientation without explicit treatment and/or long-term psychotherapy may be much more common than previously thought.
Rekers, J. (1988) The formation of homosexual orientation. (In Fagan, P. Hope for Homosexuality. Washington DC: Free Congress Foundation.)
?With major research grants from the National Institute of Mental Health, I have experimentally demonstrated an affective treatment for ‘gender identity disorder of childhood’, which appears to hold potential for preventing homosexual orientation in males.?
Satinover, J., (1996) Homosexuality and the Politics of Truth. Grand Rapids MI: Baker.
These reports contradict claims that change is impossible. It would be more accurate to say that all the existing evidence suggests strongly that homosexuality is quite changeable.
?Each individual?s homosexuality is the likely result of a complex mixture of genetic, intrauterine, and extrauterine biological factors combined with familial and social factors as well as repeatedly reinforced choices.? (p. 245)
“A study conducted by a homosexual couple found that out of 156 same-sex couples ‘only seven had maintained sexual fidelity; of the hundred couples that had been together for more than five years, none had been able to maintain sexual fidelity. The authors noted that the expectation for outside sexual activity was the rule for male couples and the exception for heterosexuals.’”
Schwartz, M.F., Masters, W.H. (1984, February). The Masters and Johnson treatment program for dissatisfied homosexual men. American Journal of Psychiatry. 141 (2): 173-181.
?Certain individuals who want to change their homosexual preference can be helped by a short-term intensive intervention. The failure rate in helping dissatisfied homosexuals establish heterosexual lifestyles after the intensive phase of the intervention was 20.9%, and after 5 years? follow-up it was 28.4%.
Spitzer, Robert (May 2001) Psychiatry and Homosexuality, Wall St. Journal, A26.
“In the sample he studied, Spitzer concluded that many (homosexuals) made substantial changes (after gender affirmative therapy) in sexual arousal and fantasy–not merely behavior. Even subjects who made less substantial change believed it to be extremely beneficial.”
Throckmorton, W. (1996) Efforts to modify sexual orientation: A review of outcome literature and ethical issues. Journal of Mental Health and Counseling. 20, 4: 283-305.
?I submit that the case against conversion therapy requires opponents to demonstrate that no patients have benefited from such procedures or that any benefits are too costly in some objective way to be pursued even if they work. The available evidence supports the observation of many counselors ? that many individuals with same-gender sexual orientation have been able to change through a variety of counseling approaches.? (p. 287)
West, D. (1977) Homosexuality Re-examined. London Duckworth
Behavioral techniques have the best document success (never less than 30%); psychoanalysis claims a great deal of success (the average rate seemed to be about 5%, but 50% of the bisexuals achieved exclusive heterosexuality.)
Zucker, K., Bradley, S. (1995) Gender Identity Disorder and Psychosexual Problems in Children and Adolescents. NY: Guilford. ??we feel that parental tolerance of cross-gender behavior at the time of its emergence is instrumental in allowing the behavior to develop?? (p. 259)
??In general we concur with those (e.g. Green 1972; Newman 1976; Stoller, 1978) who believe that the earlier treatment begins, the better.? (p. 281) ?It has been our experience that a sizable number of children and their families can achieve a great deal of change. In these cases, the gender identity disorder resolves fully, and nothing in the children?s behavior or fantasy suggests that gender identity issues remain problematic? All things considered, however, we take the position that in such cases clinicians should be optimistic, not nihilistic, about the possibility of helping the children to become more secure in their gender identity.? (p. 282)

You just don’t like the facts, because they keep getting in the way of your argument. It must suck to take your position.

[ZEB]

[quote]ZEB wrote:
forlife wrote:
ZEB wrote:
There is NO HEALTH ORGANIZATION which claims that being a homosexual is a healthier, happier lifestyle than being a heterosexual.

Lol, I’ll give you that. Of course, it has nothing to do with what is being discussed here.

EVERY MAJOR MEDICAL AND MENTAL HEALTH ORGANIZATION RECOMMENDS AGAINST ATTEMPTING TO CHANGE ONE’S SEXUAL ORIENTATION, BECAUSE DOING SO CAN BE DAMAGING!!!

Read the above 10 times and get back to me when you have a sane response.

Yes, I know you like to rely on that line. But the fact remains that people can and do change everyday.

Now how do you suppose that they do it if it were impossible?

Changing Sexual Orientation or Behavior.

(May 9, 2001). Press Release, National Association for Research & Therapy of Homosexuality, Prominent Psychiatrist Announces New Study Results: “Some Gays can Change.” Available at http://www.narth.com/docs/spitzerrelease.html (last updated May 8, 2001.)
“Like most psychiatrists,” says Dr. Robert L. Spitzer, “I thought that homosexual behavior could be resisted, but sexual orientation could not be changed. I now believe that’s untrue–some people can and do change.”
Acosta, F., (1975) Etiology and treatment of homosexuality: review. Archives of Sexual Behavior. 4:9-29.
??better prospects for intervention in homosexual life and in its prevention through the early identification and treatment of the potential homosexual child.? (p. 9)
Aries, P. and A. Bejin, ed., Male Homosexuality in Western Sexuality: Practice and Precept in Past and Present Times, 40-61, cited by Joseph Nicolosi in Reparative Therapy of Male Homosexuality. Northvale, NJ: Jason Aronson Inc., 1991), 124-125.

Bieber, I., et al. (1962) Homosexuality: A Psychoanalytic Study of Male Homosexuals. NY: Basic Books.
?The therapeutic results of our study provide reason for an optimistic outlook. Many homosexuals became exclusively heterosexual in psychoanalytic treatment. Although this change may be more easily accomplished by some than by others, in our judgment a heterosexual shift is a possibility for all homosexuals who are strongly motivated to change.? (p. 319)
Bieber, I., Bieber, T. (1979) Male homosexuality. Canadian Journal of Psychiatry. 24, 5:409-421.
?We have followed some patients for as long as 20 years who have remained exclusively heterosexual. Reversal estimates now range from 30% to an optimistic 50%.? (p.416)
Cappon, D., (1965) Toward an Understanding of Homosexuality. Englewoord Cliffs NJ: Prentice-Hall.
Of patients with bisexual problems 90% were cured (i.e., no reversions to homosexual behavior, no consciousness of homosexual desire and fantasy) in males who terminated treatment by common consent. Male homosexual patients: 80% showed marked improvement (i.e., occasional relapses, release of aggression, increasingly dominant heterosexuality)? 50% changed.? (p. 265-268)
Clippinger, J., (1974) Homosexuality can be cured. Corrective and Social Psychiatry and Journal of Behavior Technology Methods and Therapy. 21, 2:15-28.
?Of 785 patients treated, 307, or approximately 38%, were cured. Adding the percentage figures of the two other studies, we can say that at least 40% of the homosexuals were cured, and an additional 10 to 30% of the homosexuals were improved, depending on the particular study for which statistics were available.? (p. 22)
Fine, R., (1987) Psychoanalytic theory. (in Diamant L. Male and Female Homosexuality: Psychological Approaches. Washington: Hemisphere Publishing.) 81-95.
??a considerable percentage of overt homosexuals became heterosexual? If patients were motivated, whatever procedure is adopted a large percentage will give up their homosexuality? The misinformation that homosexuality is untreatable by psychotherapy does incalculable harm to thousands of men and women?? (p. 85-86)
Fitzgibbons, R., (1999) The origins and therapy of same-sex attraction disorder. (in Wolfe, C. Homosexuality and American Public Life. Spence) 85-97.
"The second most common cause of SSAD [same sex attraction disorder] among males is mistrust of women?s love? Male children in fatherless homes often feel overly responsible for their mothers. As they enter their adolescence, they may come to view female love as draining and exhausting.? (p. 89)
?Experience has taught me that healing is a difficult process, but through the mutual efforts of the therapist and the patient, serious emotional wounds can be healed over a period of time.? (p. 96)
Goetze, R. (1997) Homosexuality and the Possibility of Change: A Review of 17 Published Studies. Toronto Canada: New Directions for Life.
44 persons who were exclusively or predominantly homosexual experienced a full shift of sexual orientation.
Hatterer, L., (1970) Changing Homosexuality in the Male. NY: McGraw-Hill.
49 patients changed (20 married, of these 10 remained married, 2 divorced, 18 achieved heterosexual adjustments); 18 partially recovered, remained single; 76 remained homosexual (28 palliated ? 58 unchanged) ?A large undisclosed population has melted into heterosexual society, persons who behaved homosexually in late adolescence and early adulthood, and who, on their own, resolved their conflicts and abandoned such behavior to go on to successful marriages or to bisexual patterns of adoption.? (p. 14)
James, Elizabeth (1978) Treatment of Homosexuality: A Reanalysis and Synthesis of Outcome Studies (unpublished PhD dissertation, Brigham Young University, on file with Brigham Young University Library).
Elizabeth James meta-analyzed over 100 outcome studies published between 1930 and 1976, and concluded that when all the research was combines, 35% of homosexual clients “recovered” and 27% improved.
Kaye, H., Beri, S., Clare, J., Eleston, M., Gershwin, B., Gershwin, P., Kogan, L., Torda, C., Wilber, C. (1967) Homosexuality in Women. Archives of General Psychiatry. 17:626-634.
??optimism in the psychoanalytic treatment of homosexual women. ?at least a 50% probability of significant improvement in women with this syndrome who present themselves for treatment and remain in it.? (p. 634)
Kronemeyer, R. (1980) Overcoming Homosexuality. NY: Macmillian
?For those homosexuals who are unhappy with their life and find effective therapy it is ?curable?.? (p.7)
MacIntosh, H. (1994) Attitudes and experiences of psychoanalysts. Journal of the American Psychoanalytic Association. 42, 4: 1183-1207.
824 male patients of 213 analysts ? 197 (23.9%) changed to heterosexuality, 703 received significant therapeutic benefit; and of the 391 female patients of 153 analysts ? 79 (20.2%) changed to heterosexuality, 318 received significant therapeutic benefit. (p. 1183)
MacIntosh, H. (1995) Attitudes and Experiences of Psychoanalysts in Analyzing Homosexual Patients. Journal of the American Psychiatric Association 1183.
422 psychiatrists were asked if they had successfully treated homosexuals, and did they agree that a homosexual can be changed to heterosexual. Of the 285 responses, which involved 1,215 homosexuals, the survey stated that 23% changed to heterosexuality. 84% benefited significantly by reducing their attraction to other members of the same gender, with a decrease in homosexual activity.
Marmor, J. (1975) Homosexuality and Sexual Orientation Disturbances. (In Freedman, A., Kaplan, H., Sadock, B. Comprehensive Textbook of Psychiatry: II, Second Edition. Baltimore MD: Williams & Wilkins)
?This conviction of untreatability also serves an ego-defensive purpose for many homosexuals. ?however, there has evolved a greater therapeutic optimism about the possibilities for change? There is little doubt that a genuine shift in preferential sex object choice can and does take place in somewhere between 20 and 50 per cent of patients with homosexual behavior who seek psychotherapy with this end in mind.? (p. 1519)
Newman, L., (1976) Treatment for the parents of feminine boys. American Journal of Psychiatry. 133, 6: 683-687.
?Experiences of being ostracized and ridiculed may play a more important role than has been recognized in the total abandonment of the male role at a later time.? (p. 687)
?Feminine boys, unlike men with postpubertal gender identity disorders seem remarkably responsive to treatment.? (p. 684)
Nicolosi, J., Byrd, A., Potts, R. (1998) Towards the Ethical and Effective Treatment of Homosexuality. Encino CA: NARTH.
Nicolosi surveyed 850 individuals and 200 therapists and counselors ? specifically seeking out individuals who claim to have made a degree of change in sexual orientation. Before counseling or therapy, 68% of respondents perceived themselves as exclusively or almost entirely homosexual, with another 22% stating they were more homosexual than heterosexual. After treatment only 13% perceived themselves as exclusively or almost entire homosexuality, while 33% described themselves as either exclusively or almost entirely heterosexual, 99% of respondents said they now believe treatment to change homosexuality can be effective and valuable.
Pattison, E.M., Pattison, M.L. (1980, December) ?Ex-Gays?: Religiously Mediated Change in Homosexuals. American Journal of Psychiatry. 137 (12): 1553-1562.
Authors evaluated 11 white men who claimed to have changed sexual orientation from exclusive homosexuality to exclusive heterosexuality. Corollary evidence suggests that the phenomenon of substantiated change in sexual orientation without explicit treatment and/or long-term psychotherapy may be much more common than previously thought.
Rekers, J. (1988) The formation of homosexual orientation. (In Fagan, P. Hope for Homosexuality. Washington DC: Free Congress Foundation.)
?With major research grants from the National Institute of Mental Health, I have experimentally demonstrated an affective treatment for ‘gender identity disorder of childhood’, which appears to hold potential for preventing homosexual orientation in males.?
Satinover, J., (1996) Homosexuality and the Politics of Truth. Grand Rapids MI: Baker.
These reports contradict claims that change is impossible. It would be more accurate to say that all the existing evidence suggests strongly that homosexuality is quite changeable.
?Each individual?s homosexuality is the likely result of a complex mixture of genetic, intrauterine, and extrauterine biological factors combined with familial and social factors as well as repeatedly reinforced choices.? (p. 245)
“A study conducted by a homosexual couple found that out of 156 same-sex couples ‘only seven had maintained sexual fidelity; of the hundred couples that had been together for more than five years, none had been able to maintain sexual fidelity. The authors noted that the expectation for outside sexual activity was the rule for male couples and the exception for heterosexuals.’”
Schwartz, M.F., Masters, W.H. (1984, February). The Masters and Johnson treatment program for dissatisfied homosexual men. American Journal of Psychiatry. 141 (2): 173-181.
?Certain individuals who want to change their homosexual preference can be helped by a short-term intensive intervention. The failure rate in helping dissatisfied homosexuals establish heterosexual lifestyles after the intensive phase of the intervention was 20.9%, and after 5 years? follow-up it was 28.4%.
Spitzer, Robert (May 2001) Psychiatry and Homosexuality, Wall St. Journal, A26.
“In the sample he studied, Spitzer concluded that many (homosexuals) made substantial changes (after gender affirmative therapy) in sexual arousal and fantasy–not merely behavior. Even subjects who made less substantial change believed it to be extremely beneficial.”
Throckmorton, W. (1996) Efforts to modify sexual orientation: A review of outcome literature and ethical issues. Journal of Mental Health and Counseling. 20, 4: 283-305.
?I submit that the case against conversion therapy requires opponents to demonstrate that no patients have benefited from such procedures or that any benefits are too costly in some objective way to be pursued even if they work. The available evidence supports the observation of many counselors ? that many individuals with same-gender sexual orientation have been able to change through a variety of counseling approaches.? (p. 287)
West, D. (1977) Homosexuality Re-examined. London Duckworth
Behavioral techniques have the best document success (never less than 30%); psychoanalysis claims a great deal of success (the average rate seemed to be about 5%, but 50% of the bisexuals achieved exclusive heterosexuality.)
Zucker, K., Bradley, S. (1995) Gender Identity Disorder and Psychosexual Problems in Children and Adolescents. NY: Guilford. ??we feel that parental tolerance of cross-gender behavior at the time of its emergence is instrumental in allowing the behavior to develop?? (p. 259)
??In general we concur with those (e.g. Green 1972; Newman 1976; Stoller, 1978) who believe that the earlier treatment begins, the better.? (p. 281) ?It has been our experience that a sizable number of children and their families can achieve a great deal of change. In these cases, the gender identity disorder resolves fully, and nothing in the children?s behavior or fantasy suggests that gender identity issues remain problematic? All things considered, however, we take the position that in such cases clinicians should be optimistic, not nihilistic, about the possibility of helping the children to become more secure in their gender identity.? (p. 282)

You just don’t like the facts, because they keep getting in the way of your argument. It must suck to take your position.

[/quote]

[forlife]

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Yes, I know you like to rely on that line. But the fact remains that people can and do change everyday.[/quote]

According to every major medical and mental health organization, people GENERALLY CANNOT CHANGE their sexual orientation, attempting to do so can be DAMAGING, and it is NOT RECOMMENDED.

You are advocating something that is DIRECTLY AND CONCLUSIVELY CONTRADICTED BY EVERY MAJOR MEDICAL AND MENTAL HEALTH ORGANIZATION.

That is the bottom line, and you have no answer for it.

[forlife]

According to the American Medical Association:

Most of the emotional disturbance experienced by gay men and lesbians around their sexual identity is not based on physiological causes but rather is due more to a sense of alienation in an un-accepting environment. For this reason, aversion therapy is no longer recommended for gay men and lesbians.

The American Academy of Pediatrics in its policy statement on Homosexuality and Adolescence states:

Therapy directed specifically at changing sexual orientation is contraindicated, since it can provoke guilt and anxiety while having little or no potential for achieving changes in orientation.

Several leading medical and mental health organizations developed and endorsed “Just the Facts About Sexual Orientation & Youth: A Primer for Principals, Educators and School Personnel” in 1999. According to that document:

""The most important fact about ‘reparative therapy,’ also sometimes known as ‘conversion’ therapy, is that it is based on an understanding of homosexuality that has been rejected by all the major health and mental health professions. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of Social Workers, together representing more than 477,000 health and mental health professionals, [b]have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus there is no need for a ‘cure.’

…health and mental health professional organizations do not support efforts to change young people’s sexual orientation through ‘reparative therapy’ and have raised serious concerns about its potential to do harm.[/b]"

National Association of Social Workers:

Social stigmatization of lesbian, gay, and bisexual people is widespread and is a primary motivating factor in leading some people to seek sexual orientation changes. Sexual orientation conversion therapies assume that homosexual orientation is both pathological and freely chosen. No data demonstrate that reparative or conversion therapies are effective, and in fact they may be harmful. NASW believes social workers have the responsibility to clients to explain the prevailing knowledge concerning sexual orientation and the lack of data reporting positive outcomes with reparative therapy. NASW discourages social workers from providing treatments designed to change sexual orientation or from referring practitioners or programs that claim to do so.

In 1998-MAR, the Governing Council of the American Counseling Association (ACA) approved a motion that the association:

?opposes portrayals of lesbian, gay, and bisexual youth and adults as mentally ill due to their sexual orientation; and supports the dissemination of accurate information about sexual orientation, mental health, and appropriate interventions in order to counteract bias that is based in ignorance or unfounded beliefs about same-gender orientation.

The Surgeon General’s Call to Action to Promote Sexual Health and Responsible Sexual Behavior (2001) asserts that homosexuality is not “a reversible lifestyle choice.”

[terribleivan]

[quote]ZEB wrote:
forlife wrote:
ZEB wrote:
There is NO HEALTH ORGANIZATION which claims that being a homosexual is a healthier, happier lifestyle than being a heterosexual.

Lol, I’ll give you that. Of course, it has nothing to do with what is being discussed here.

EVERY MAJOR MEDICAL AND MENTAL HEALTH ORGANIZATION RECOMMENDS AGAINST ATTEMPTING TO CHANGE ONE’S SEXUAL ORIENTATION, BECAUSE DOING SO CAN BE DAMAGING!!!

Read the above 10 times and get back to me when you have a sane response.

Yes, I know you like to rely on that line. But the fact remains that people can and do change everyday.

Now how do you suppose that they do it if it were impossible?

[bChanging Sexual Orientation or Behavior.[/b]

(May 9, 2001). Press Release, National Association for Research & Therapy of Homosexuality, Prominent Psychiatrist Announces New Study Results: “Some Gays can Change.” Available at http://www.narth.com/docs/spitzerrelease.html (last updated May 8, 2001.)
“Like most psychiatrists,” says Dr. Robert L. Spitzer, “I thought that homosexual behavior could be resisted, but sexual orientation could not be changed. I now believe that’s untrue–some people can and do change.”
Acosta, F., (1975) Etiology and treatment of homosexuality: review. Archives of Sexual Behavior. 4:9-29.
??better prospects for intervention in homosexual life and in its prevention through the early identification and treatment of the potential homosexual child.? (p. 9)
Aries, P. and A. Bejin, ed., Male Homosexuality in Western Sexuality: Practice and Precept in Past and Present Times, 40-61, cited by Joseph Nicolosi in Reparative Therapy of Male Homosexuality. Northvale, NJ: Jason Aronson Inc., 1991), 124-125.

Bieber, I., et al. (1962) Homosexuality: A Psychoanalytic Study of Male Homosexuals. NY: Basic Books.
?The therapeutic results of our study provide reason for an optimistic outlook. Many homosexuals became exclusively heterosexual in psychoanalytic treatment. Although this change may be more easily accomplished by some than by others, in our judgment a heterosexual shift is a possibility for all homosexuals who are strongly motivated to change.? (p. 319)
Bieber, I., Bieber, T. (1979) Male homosexuality. Canadian Journal of Psychiatry. 24, 5:409-421.
?We have followed some patients for as long as 20 years who have remained exclusively heterosexual. Reversal estimates now range from 30% to an optimistic 50%.? (p.416)
Cappon, D., (1965) Toward an Understanding of Homosexuality. Englewoord Cliffs NJ: Prentice-Hall.
Of patients with bisexual problems 90% were cured (i.e., no reversions to homosexual behavior, no consciousness of homosexual desire and fantasy) in males who terminated treatment by common consent. Male homosexual patients: 80% showed marked improvement (i.e., occasional relapses, release of aggression, increasingly dominant heterosexuality)? 50% changed.? (p. 265-268)
Clippinger, J., (1974) Homosexuality can be cured. Corrective and Social Psychiatry and Journal of Behavior Technology Methods and Therapy. 21, 2:15-28.
?Of 785 patients treated, 307, or approximately 38%, were cured. Adding the percentage figures of the two other studies, we can say that at least 40% of the homosexuals were cured, and an additional 10 to 30% of the homosexuals were improved, depending on the particular study for which statistics were available.? (p. 22)
Fine, R., (1987) Psychoanalytic theory. (in Diamant L. Male and Female Homosexuality: Psychological Approaches. Washington: Hemisphere Publishing.) 81-95.
??a considerable percentage of overt homosexuals became heterosexual? If patients were motivated, whatever procedure is adopted a large percentage will give up their homosexuality? The misinformation that homosexuality is untreatable by psychotherapy does incalculable harm to thousands of men and women?? (p. 85-86)
Fitzgibbons, R., (1999) The origins and therapy of same-sex attraction disorder. (in Wolfe, C. Homosexuality and American Public Life. Spence) 85-97.
"The second most common cause of SSAD [same sex attraction disorder] among males is mistrust of women?s love? Male children in fatherless homes often feel overly responsible for their mothers. As they enter their adolescence, they may come to view female love as draining and exhausting.? (p. 89)
?Experience has taught me that healing is a difficult process, but through the mutual efforts of the therapist and the patient, serious emotional wounds can be healed over a period of time.? (p. 96)
Goetze, R. (1997) Homosexuality and the Possibility of Change: A Review of 17 Published Studies. Toronto Canada: New Directions for Life.
44 persons who were exclusively or predominantly homosexual experienced a full shift of sexual orientation.
Hatterer, L., (1970) Changing Homosexuality in the Male. NY: McGraw-Hill.
49 patients changed (20 married, of these 10 remained married, 2 divorced, 18 achieved heterosexual adjustments); 18 partially recovered, remained single; 76 remained homosexual (28 palliated ? 58 unchanged) ?A large undisclosed population has melted into heterosexual society, persons who behaved homosexually in late adolescence and early adulthood, and who, on their own, resolved their conflicts and abandoned such behavior to go on to successful marriages or to bisexual patterns of adoption.? (p. 14)
James, Elizabeth (1978) Treatment of Homosexuality: A Reanalysis and Synthesis of Outcome Studies (unpublished PhD dissertation, Brigham Young University, on file with Brigham Young University Library).
Elizabeth James meta-analyzed over 100 outcome studies published between 1930 and 1976, and concluded that when all the research was combines, 35% of homosexual clients “recovered” and 27% improved.
Kaye, H., Beri, S., Clare, J., Eleston, M., Gershwin, B., Gershwin, P., Kogan, L., Torda, C., Wilber, C. (1967) Homosexuality in Women. Archives of General Psychiatry. 17:626-634.
??optimism in the psychoanalytic treatment of homosexual women. ?at least a 50% probability of significant improvement in women with this syndrome who present themselves for treatment and remain in it.? (p. 634)
Kronemeyer, R. (1980) Overcoming Homosexuality. NY: Macmillian
?For those homosexuals who are unhappy with their life and find effective therapy it is ?curable?.? (p.7)
MacIntosh, H. (1994) Attitudes and experiences of psychoanalysts. Journal of the American Psychoanalytic Association. 42, 4: 1183-1207.
824 male patients of 213 analysts ? 197 (23.9%) changed to heterosexuality, 703 received significant therapeutic benefit; and of the 391 female patients of 153 analysts ? 79 (20.2%) changed to heterosexuality, 318 received significant therapeutic benefit. (p. 1183)
MacIntosh, H. (1995) Attitudes and Experiences of Psychoanalysts in Analyzing Homosexual Patients. Journal of the American Psychiatric Association 1183.
422 psychiatrists were asked if they had successfully treated homosexuals, and did they agree that a homosexual can be changed to heterosexual. Of the 285 responses, which involved 1,215 homosexuals, the survey stated that 23% changed to heterosexuality. 84% benefited significantly by reducing their attraction to other members of the same gender, with a decrease in homosexual activity.
Marmor, J. (1975) Homosexuality and Sexual Orientation Disturbances. (In Freedman, A., Kaplan, H., Sadock, B. Comprehensive Textbook of Psychiatry: II, Second Edition. Baltimore MD: Williams & Wilkins)
?This conviction of untreatability also serves an ego-defensive purpose for many homosexuals. ?however, there has evolved a greater therapeutic optimism about the possibilities for change? There is little doubt that a genuine shift in preferential sex object choice can and does take place in somewhere between 20 and 50 per cent of patients with homosexual behavior who seek psychotherapy with this end in mind.? (p. 1519)
Newman, L., (1976) Treatment for the parents of feminine boys. American Journal of Psychiatry. 133, 6: 683-687.
?Experiences of being ostracized and ridiculed may play a more important role than has been recognized in the total abandonment of the male role at a later time.? (p. 687)
?Feminine boys, unlike men with postpubertal gender identity disorders seem remarkably responsive to treatment.? (p. 684)
Nicolosi, J., Byrd, A., Potts, R. (1998) Towards the Ethical and Effective Treatment of Homosexuality. Encino CA: NARTH.
Nicolosi surveyed 850 individuals and 200 therapists and counselors ? specifically seeking out individuals who claim to have made a degree of change in sexual orientation. Before counseling or therapy, 68% of respondents perceived themselves as exclusively or almost entirely homosexual, with another 22% stating they were more homosexual than heterosexual. After treatment only 13% perceived themselves as exclusively or almost entire homosexuality, while 33% described themselves as either exclusively or almost entirely heterosexual, 99% of respondents said they now believe treatment to change homosexuality can be effective and valuable.
Pattison, E.M., Pattison, M.L. (1980, December) ?Ex-Gays?: Religiously Mediated Change in Homosexuals. American Journal of Psychiatry. 137 (12): 1553-1562.
Authors evaluated 11 white men who claimed to have changed sexual orientation from exclusive homosexuality to exclusive heterosexuality. Corollary evidence suggests that the phenomenon of substantiated change in sexual orientation without explicit treatment and/or long-term psychotherapy may be much more common than previously thought.
Rekers, J. (1988) The formation of homosexual orientation. (In Fagan, P. Hope for Homosexuality. Washington DC: Free Congress Foundation.)
?With major research grants from the National Institute of Mental Health, I have experimentally demonstrated an affective treatment for ‘gender identity disorder of childhood’, which appears to hold potential for preventing homosexual orientation in males.?
Satinover, J., (1996) Homosexuality and the Politics of Truth. Grand Rapids MI: Baker.
These reports contradict claims that change is impossible. It would be more accurate to say that all the existing evidence suggests strongly that homosexuality is quite changeable.
?Each individual?s homosexuality is the likely result of a complex mixture of genetic, intrauterine, and extrauterine biological factors combined with familial and social factors as well as repeatedly reinforced choices.? (p. 245)
“A study conducted by a homosexual couple found that out of 156 same-sex couples ‘only seven had maintained sexual fidelity; of the hundred couples that had been together for more than five years, none had been able to maintain sexual fidelity. The authors noted that the expectation for outside sexual activity was the rule for male couples and the exception for heterosexuals.’”
Schwartz, M.F., Masters, W.H. (1984, February). The Masters and Johnson treatment program for dissatisfied homosexual men. American Journal of Psychiatry. 141 (2): 173-181.
?Certain individuals who want to change their homosexual preference can be helped by a short-term intensive intervention. The failure rate in helping dissatisfied homosexuals establish heterosexual lifestyles after the intensive phase of the intervention was 20.9%, and after 5 years? follow-up it was 28.4%.
Spitzer, Robert (May 2001) Psychiatry and Homosexuality, Wall St. Journal, A26.
“In the sample he studied, Spitzer concluded that many (homosexuals) made substantial changes (after gender affirmative therapy) in sexual arousal and fantasy–not merely behavior. Even subjects who made less substantial change believed it to be extremely beneficial.”
Throckmorton, W. (1996) Efforts to modify sexual orientation: A review of outcome literature and ethical issues. Journal of Mental Health and Counseling. 20, 4: 283-305.
?I submit that the case against conversion therapy requires opponents to demonstrate that no patients have benefited from such procedures or that any benefits are too costly in some objective way to be pursued even if they work. The available evidence supports the observation of many counselors ? that many individuals with same-gender sexual orientation have been able to change through a variety of counseling approaches.? (p. 287)
West, D. (1977) Homosexuality Re-examined. London Duckworth
Behavioral techniques have the best document success (never less than 30%); psychoanalysis claims a great deal of success (the average rate seemed to be about 5%, but 50% of the bisexuals achieved exclusive heterosexuality.)
Zucker, K., Bradley, S. (1995) Gender Identity Disorder and Psychosexual Problems in Children and Adolescents. NY: Guilford. ??we feel that parental tolerance of cross-gender behavior at the time of its emergence is instrumental in allowing the behavior to develop?? (p. 259)
??In general we concur with those (e.g. Green 1972; Newman 1976; Stoller, 1978) who believe that the earlier treatment begins, the better.? (p. 281) ?It has been our experience that a sizable number of children and their families can achieve a great deal of change. In these cases, the gender identity disorder resolves fully, and nothing in the children?s behavior or fantasy suggests that gender identity issues remain problematic? All things considered, however, we take the position that in such cases clinicians should be optimistic, not nihilistic, about the possibility of helping the children to become more secure in their gender identity.? (p. 282)

You just don’t like the facts, because they keep getting in the way of your argument. It must suck to take your position.

[/quote]

You should have addressed this one to Glee. He seems to be suffering from a severe case of hubris.

[stellar_horizon]

[quote]forlife wrote:
According to every major medical and mental health organization, attempting to turn a homosexual into a heterosexual can be DAMAGING and is NOT RECOMMENDED. Maybe if I point this out enough times, you fundamentalists will actually acknowledge it?
[/quote]
You keep mentioning this, but how is it damaging? Because the homosexual patient MIGHT experience feelings of guilt, which can be quite positive towards the promotion of behavioral changes? Or because of the feelings of anxiety, which homosexuals according to scientific research are proven to experience to a higher caliber than the rest of society anyways?

Peace be with you.

[stellar_horizon]

[quote]Gleemonex wrote:
The concept of a sexuality spectrum isn’t a definite or regulated one. It’s simply a widely-accepted paradigm based on the observation that people have various levels of sexual attraction to various things. In this context, we’re talking about the spectrum that basically runs from 100% heterosexual and 0% homosexual on one end to 0% heterosexual and 100% homosexual on the other.
-Glee
[/quote]
So like I was inquiring about, there may be homosexual men that are attracted to other homosexual men for a score of 30% on this scale; heterosexual men 25%; homosexual women 3%; heterosexual women 2%; minors for 25%; goats for 4%; and watermelons for 1%.

In my view, society should do its best to keep these people out of the fruit, child care, and animal herding industries. The unregulated, indefinite sexual continuum as it stands simply serves to excuse the behaviors and interests of the homosexual community while failing to diagnose what other populations / creatures / objects these people are theoretically oriented towards. It’s a load of crock to me, but I think we all agree that using the sexual continuum to advocate for homosexuality is critically insufficient and flawed in explaining away people’s orientations and preferences.

Peace be with you.

[forlife]

[quote]stellar_horizon wrote:
You keep mentioning this, but how is it damaging? Because the homosexual patient MIGHT experience feelings of guilt, which can be quite positive towards the promotion of behavioral changes? Or because of the feelings of anxiety, which homosexuals according to scientific research are proven to experience to a higher caliber than the rest of society anyways?
[/quote]

Quick answer: it is damaging because the major medical and mental health organizations say it is. They do not recommend it.

Longer answer:

[quote]Gay, lesbian, and bisexual youth must also cope with prejudiced, discriminatory, and violent behavior and messages in their families, schools, and communities. Such behavior and messages negatively affect the health, mental health and education of lesbian, gay, and bisexual young people. These students are more likely than heterosexual students to report missing school due to fear, being threatened by other students, and having their property damaged at school.1 The promotion of “reparative therapy” and “transformational ministry” is likely to exacerbate the risk of harassment, harm, and fear.

For these reasons, the experience of gay, lesbian, and bisexual teenagers is often one of isolation, fear of stigmatization, and lack of peer or familial support. Gay, lesbian, and bisexual youth have few opportunities for observing positive modeling by adults due to the general cultural bias that makes gay, lesbian, and bisexual people largely invisible. It is this isolation and lack of support that accounts in part for the higher rates of emotional distress,2 suicide attempts,3 and risky sexual behavior and substance use 4 that gay, lesbian, and bisexual students report compared to heterosexual students. Because of their legitimate fear of being harassed or hurt, gay, lesbian, or bisexual youth are less likely to ask for help. Thus, it is important that their environments be as open and accepting as possible, so these young people will feel comfortable sharing their thoughts and concerns. To be able to provide an accepting environment, school personnel need to understand the nature of sexual orientation development and be supportive of healthy development for all youth.
[/quote]

The above statement was made by the following organizations (whose job it is to evaluate what is damaging and what is not):

American Academy of Pediatrics

American Counseling Association

American Association of School Administrators

American Federation of Teachers

American Psychological Association

American School Health Association

Interfaith Alliance Foundation

National Association of School Psychologists

National Association of Social Workers

National Education Association

You will note that Zeb has never acknowledged the possibility that many of the behaviors that he condemns are actually driven by the homophobic culture that he promotes. In a more accepting environment, where gay kids can benefit from the same institutions enjoyed by heterosexuals, many of these negative consequences would be effectively addressed.

[ZEB]

[quote]forlife wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Yes, I know you like to rely on that line. But the fact remains that people can and do change everyday.

According to every major medical and mental health organization, people GENERALLY CANNOT CHANGE their sexual orientation, attempting to do so can be DAMAGING, and it is NOT RECOMMENDED.

You are advocating something that is DIRECTLY AND CONCLUSIVELY CONTRADICTED BY EVERY MAJOR MEDICAL AND MENTAL HEALTH ORGANIZATION.

That is the bottom line, and you have no answer for it.[/quote]

No, it’s YOU who missed the point.

I’ll do it again just for you…

Changing Sexual Orientation or Behavior.

(May 9, 2001). Press Release, National Association for Research & Therapy of Homosexuality, Prominent Psychiatrist Announces New Study Results: “Some Gays can Change.”

“Like most psychiatrists,” says Dr. Robert L. Spitzer, “I thought that homosexual behavior could be resisted, but sexual orientation could not be changed. I now believe that’s untrue–some people can and do change.”
Acosta, F., (1975) Etiology and treatment of homosexuality: review. Archives of Sexual Behavior. 4:9-29.
??better prospects for intervention in homosexual life and in its prevention through the early identification and treatment of the potential homosexual child.? (p. 9)
Aries, P. and A. Bejin, ed., Male Homosexuality in Western Sexuality: Practice and Precept in Past and Present Times, 40-61, cited by Joseph Nicolosi in Reparative Therapy of Male Homosexuality. Northvale, NJ: Jason Aronson Inc., 1991), 124-125.

Bieber, I., et al. (1962) Homosexuality: A Psychoanalytic Study of Male Homosexuals. NY: Basic Books.
?The therapeutic results of our study provide reason for an optimistic outlook. Many homosexuals became exclusively heterosexual in psychoanalytic treatment. Although this change may be more easily accomplished by some than by others, in our judgment a heterosexual shift is a possibility for all homosexuals who are strongly motivated to change.? (p. 319)
Bieber, I., Bieber, T. (1979) Male homosexuality. Canadian Journal of Psychiatry. 24, 5:409-421.
?We have followed some patients for as long as 20 years who have remained exclusively heterosexual. Reversal estimates now range from 30% to an optimistic 50%.? (p.416)
Cappon, D., (1965) Toward an Understanding of Homosexuality. Englewoord Cliffs NJ: Prentice-Hall.
Of patients with bisexual problems 90% were cured (i.e., no reversions to homosexual behavior, no consciousness of homosexual desire and fantasy) in males who terminated treatment by common consent. Male homosexual patients: 80% showed marked improvement (i.e., occasional relapses, release of aggression, increasingly dominant heterosexuality)? 50% changed.? (p. 265-268)
Clippinger, J., (1974) Homosexuality can be cured. Corrective and Social Psychiatry and Journal of Behavior Technology Methods and Therapy. 21, 2:15-28.
?Of 785 patients treated, 307, or approximately 38%, were cured. Adding the percentage figures of the two other studies, we can say that at least 40% of the homosexuals were cured, and an additional 10 to 30% of the homosexuals were improved, depending on the particular study for which statistics were available.? (p. 22)
Fine, R., (1987) Psychoanalytic theory. (in Diamant L. Male and Female Homosexuality: Psychological Approaches. Washington: Hemisphere Publishing.) 81-95.
??a considerable percentage of overt homosexuals became heterosexual? If patients were motivated, whatever procedure is adopted a large percentage will give up their homosexuality? The misinformation that homosexuality is untreatable by psychotherapy does incalculable harm to thousands of men and women?? (p. 85-86)
Fitzgibbons, R., (1999) The origins and therapy of same-sex attraction disorder. (in Wolfe, C. Homosexuality and American Public Life. Spence) 85-97.
"The second most common cause of SSAD [same sex attraction disorder] among males is mistrust of women?s love? Male children in fatherless homes often feel overly responsible for their mothers. As they enter their adolescence, they may come to view female love as draining and exhausting.? (p. 89)
?Experience has taught me that healing is a difficult process, but through the mutual efforts of the therapist and the patient, serious emotional wounds can be healed over a period of time.? (p. 96)
Goetze, R. (1997) Homosexuality and the Possibility of Change: A Review of 17 Published Studies. Toronto Canada: New Directions for Life.
44 persons who were exclusively or predominantly homosexual experienced a full shift of sexual orientation.
Hatterer, L., (1970) Changing Homosexuality in the Male. NY: McGraw-Hill.
49 patients changed (20 married, of these 10 remained married, 2 divorced, 18 achieved heterosexual adjustments); 18 partially recovered, remained single; 76 remained homosexual (28 palliated ? 58 unchanged) ?A large undisclosed population has melted into heterosexual society, persons who behaved homosexually in late adolescence and early adulthood, and who, on their own, resolved their conflicts and abandoned such behavior to go on to successful marriages or to bisexual patterns of adoption.? (p. 14)
James, Elizabeth (1978) Treatment of Homosexuality: A Reanalysis and Synthesis of Outcome Studies (unpublished PhD dissertation, Brigham Young University, on file with Brigham Young University Library).
Elizabeth James meta-analyzed over 100 outcome studies published between 1930 and 1976, and concluded that when all the research was combines, 35% of homosexual clients “recovered” and 27% improved.
Kaye, H., Beri, S., Clare, J., Eleston, M., Gershwin, B., Gershwin, P., Kogan, L., Torda, C., Wilber, C. (1967) Homosexuality in Women. Archives of General Psychiatry. 17:626-634.
??optimism in the psychoanalytic treatment of homosexual women. ?at least a 50% probability of significant improvement in women with this syndrome who present themselves for treatment and remain in it.? (p. 634)
Kronemeyer, R. (1980) Overcoming Homosexuality. NY: Macmillian
?For those homosexuals who are unhappy with their life and find effective therapy it is ?curable?.? (p.7)
MacIntosh, H. (1994) Attitudes and experiences of psychoanalysts. Journal of the American Psychoanalytic Association. 42, 4: 1183-1207.
824 male patients of 213 analysts ? 197 (23.9%) changed to heterosexuality, 703 received significant therapeutic benefit; and of the 391 female patients of 153 analysts ? 79 (20.2%) changed to heterosexuality, 318 received significant therapeutic benefit. (p. 1183)
MacIntosh, H. (1995) Attitudes and Experiences of Psychoanalysts in Analyzing Homosexual Patients. Journal of the American Psychiatric Association 1183.
422 psychiatrists were asked if they had successfully treated homosexuals, and did they agree that a homosexual can be changed to heterosexual. Of the 285 responses, which involved 1,215 homosexuals, the survey stated that 23% changed to heterosexuality. 84% benefited significantly by reducing their attraction to other members of the same gender, with a decrease in homosexual activity.
Marmor, J. (1975) Homosexuality and Sexual Orientation Disturbances. (In Freedman, A., Kaplan, H., Sadock, B. Comprehensive Textbook of Psychiatry: II, Second Edition. Baltimore MD: Williams & Wilkins)
?This conviction of untreatability also serves an ego-defensive purpose for many homosexuals. ?however, there has evolved a greater therapeutic optimism about the possibilities for change? There is little doubt that a genuine shift in preferential sex object choice can and does take place in somewhere between 20 and 50 per cent of patients with homosexual behavior who seek psychotherapy with this end in mind.? (p. 1519)
Newman, L., (1976) Treatment for the parents of feminine boys. American Journal of Psychiatry. 133, 6: 683-687.
?Experiences of being ostracized and ridiculed may play a more important role than has been recognized in the total abandonment of the male role at a later time.? (p. 687)
?Feminine boys, unlike men with postpubertal gender identity disorders seem remarkably responsive to treatment.? (p. 684)
Nicolosi, J., Byrd, A., Potts, R. (1998) Towards the Ethical and Effective Treatment of Homosexuality. Encino CA: NARTH.
Nicolosi surveyed 850 individuals and 200 therapists and counselors ? specifically seeking out individuals who claim to have made a degree of change in sexual orientation. Before counseling or therapy, 68% of respondents perceived themselves as exclusively or almost entirely homosexual, with another 22% stating they were more homosexual than heterosexual. After treatment only 13% perceived themselves as exclusively or almost entire homosexuality, while 33% described themselves as either exclusively or almost entirely heterosexual, 99% of respondents said they now believe treatment to change homosexuality can be effective and valuable.
Pattison, E.M., Pattison, M.L. (1980, December) ?Ex-Gays?: Religiously Mediated Change in Homosexuals. American Journal of Psychiatry. 137 (12): 1553-1562.
Authors evaluated 11 white men who claimed to have changed sexual orientation from exclusive homosexuality to exclusive heterosexuality. Corollary evidence suggests that the phenomenon of substantiated change in sexual orientation without explicit treatment and/or long-term psychotherapy may be much more common than previously thought.
Rekers, J. (1988) The formation of homosexual orientation. (In Fagan, P. Hope for Homosexuality. Washington DC: Free Congress Foundation.)
?With major research grants from the National Institute of Mental Health, I have experimentally demonstrated an affective treatment for ‘gender identity disorder of childhood’, which appears to hold potential for preventing homosexual orientation in males.?
Satinover, J., (1996) Homosexuality and the Politics of Truth. Grand Rapids MI: Baker.
These reports contradict claims that change is impossible. It would be more accurate to say that all the existing evidence suggests strongly that homosexuality is quite changeable.
?Each individual?s homosexuality is the likely result of a complex mixture of genetic, intrauterine, and extrauterine biological factors combined with familial and social factors as well as repeatedly reinforced choices.? (p. 245)
“A study conducted by a homosexual couple found that out of 156 same-sex couples ‘only seven had maintained sexual fidelity; of the hundred couples that had been together for more than five years, none had been able to maintain sexual fidelity. The authors noted that the expectation for outside sexual activity was the rule for male couples and the exception for heterosexuals.’”
Schwartz, M.F., Masters, W.H. (1984, February). The Masters and Johnson treatment program for dissatisfied homosexual men. American Journal of Psychiatry. 141 (2): 173-181.
?Certain individuals who want to change their homosexual preference can be helped by a short-term intensive intervention. The failure rate in helping dissatisfied homosexuals establish heterosexual lifestyles after the intensive phase of the intervention was 20.9%, and after 5 years? follow-up it was 28.4%.
Spitzer, Robert (May 2001) Psychiatry and Homosexuality, Wall St. Journal, A26.
“In the sample he studied, Spitzer concluded that many (homosexuals) made substantial changes (after gender affirmative therapy) in sexual arousal and fantasy–not merely behavior. Even subjects who made less substantial change believed it to be extremely beneficial.”
Throckmorton, W. (1996) Efforts to modify sexual orientation: A review of outcome literature and ethical issues. Journal of Mental Health and Counseling. 20, 4: 283-305.
?I submit that the case against conversion therapy requires opponents to demonstrate that no patients have benefited from such procedures or that any benefits are too costly in some objective way to be pursued even if they work. The available evidence supports the observation of many counselors ? that many individuals with same-gender sexual orientation have been able to change through a variety of counseling approaches.? (p. 287)
West, D. (1977) Homosexuality Re-examined. London Duckworth
Behavioral techniques have the best document success (never less than 30%); psychoanalysis claims a great deal of success (the average rate seemed to be about 5%, but 50% of the bisexuals achieved exclusive heterosexuality.)
Zucker, K., Bradley, S. (1995) Gender Identity Disorder and Psychosexual Problems in Children and Adolescents. NY: Guilford. ??we feel that parental tolerance of cross-gender behavior at the time of its emergence is instrumental in allowing the behavior to develop?? (p. 259)
??In general we concur with those (e.g. Green 1972; Newman 1976; Stoller, 1978) who believe that the earlier treatment begins, the better.? (p. 281) ?It has been our experience that a sizable number of children and their families can achieve a great deal of change. In these cases, the gender identity disorder resolves fully, and nothing in the children?s behavior or fantasy suggests that gender identity issues remain problematic? All things considered, however, we take the position that in such cases clinicians should be optimistic, not nihilistic, about the possibility of helping the children to become more secure in their gender identity.? (p. 282)

You see if it were impossible to change then NO ONE would change. Since thousands have indeed changed then it is possible!

Got it yet or do you need to read it again?

[ZEB]

[quote]stellar_horizon wrote:
forlife wrote:
According to every major medical and mental health organization, attempting to turn a homosexual into a heterosexual can be DAMAGING and is NOT RECOMMENDED. Maybe if I point this out enough times, you fundamentalists will actually acknowledge it?

You keep mentioning this, but how is it damaging? Because the homosexual patient MIGHT experience feelings of guilt, which can be quite positive towards the promotion of behavioral changes? Or because of the feelings of anxiety, which homosexuals according to scientific research are proven to experience to a higher caliber than the rest of society anyways?

Peace be with you.
[/quote]

I can’t think of one activity that is negative which I enjoy that would not induce some anxiety if I tried to change it.

That is simply a narrow view on his part. But his argument is filled with narrow views.

[ZEB]

[quote]forlife wrote:
stellar_horizon wrote:
You keep mentioning this, but how is it damaging? Because the homosexual patient MIGHT experience feelings of guilt, which can be quite positive towards the promotion of behavioral changes? Or because of the feelings of anxiety, which homosexuals according to scientific research are proven to experience to a higher caliber than the rest of society anyways?

Quick answer: it is damaging because the major medical and mental health organizations say it is. They do not recommend it.[/quote]

Ha ha…oh my let’s run to embrace this politically correct blather…quickly now.

From on high the Gods (in forlifes life) have spoken. Nothing left to do but kneel and obey…

You make fun of me because I am a Christian but you worship at the feet of organizations that blow in the wind my friend.

You will note that Zeb has never acknowledged the possibility that many of the behaviors that he condemns are actually driven by the homophobic culture that he promotes. In a more accepting environment, where gay kids can benefit from the same institutions enjoyed by heterosexuals, many of these negative consequences would be effectively addressed.

That is possibly the biggest croc of crap I have read from forlife. And I have read a great deal of crap from him.

“The behviors that I condemn are driven by a homophobic culture.” That is idiocy!

“gay kids can’t benefit from the same institutions that heterosexuals benefit from?”

“Go away gay kid you are no good.”

Yea that happens all the time in the USA …HAHAHAHA

LOL…(I’m really laughing hardily at this. Too many times people type “lol” and don’t really mean it…but I am laughing so loudly my wife has come to the door of my office to see what’s so funny. I will now let her read your meaningless nonsense.)

And I thank you!

[ZEB]

forlife I get it, I get it. You have given up the debate and are now simply going for the laugh…

[forlife]

[quote]ZEB wrote:
You see if it were impossible to change then NO ONE would change. Since thousands have indeed changed then it is possible![/quote]

The major medical and mental health organizations concluded that people cannot GENERALLY change their sexual orientation. But even if it were possible, they have said that change is NOT RECOMMENDED.

Sorry if you don’t like it, but those are the facts.

[stellar_horizon]

forlife, have you considered the fact that the medical organizations you continually list base to a significant degree [i]at least some[/i] mental disorders upon a system of morality & cultural values rather than objective research?

Let’s take suicide for example. I’m not advocating for suicide to any extent, but according to the American Psychological Association, the act is wrong and the person who committed it suffered from some mental disorder requiring therapy/counseling… Meanwhile in the Japanese culture, suicide was/is a praiseworthy act highlighted with honor and glory. Think of the much-respected samurai soldiers as examples of what I’m talking about since you mentioned them earlier. Japanese women have also been known (out of respect and cultural piety) to voluntarily expire with their mates. In ancient times, the Celts preferred incineration rather than decaying into feeble, old age - and they too plunged into various forms of suicide.

You can try to escape from this concept all you want, but the theories behind psychology and the classification of mental disorders are based to some extent upon subjective values and beliefs. The major medical organizations you keep excusing your lifestyle upon are no exceptions to this truth. As a Christian, I know I’m subjective to issues concerning homosexuality. The scientific research (such as the epidemic of HIV within the U.S. amongst homosexuals) as well as other perverted trends amidst this population further support my stance on the issue.

You, on the other hand, seem to have fooled yourself into believing your sources of information are completely objective. Ultimately, the inevitable question at hand becomes not which organization you place faith in (whether the APA or NARTH) but rather which code of morality you ascribe to, live according to, and preach to the masses.

Just wanted you to realize this critical concept. Peace be with you.

[forlife]

[quote]ZEB wrote:
From on high the Gods (in forlifes life) have spoken. Nothing left to do but kneel and obey…[/quote]

The major medical and mental health organizations of the world have spoken. Their conclusions don’t agree with your religious agenda.

Yea that happens all the time in the USA …HAHAHAHA

You really are clueless. Is it so hard for you to step outside of your own narrow world and view things through someone else’s eyes? The capacity to do so is a sign of moral maturity. In short: grow up.

Again, sorry if your personal biases are contradicted by the conclusions of the major medical and mental organizations of the world. It was because of people like you that they felt compelled to create documents like the “Just the Facts” paper from which this information came:

[quote]The reason for publishing this factsheet now is the recent upsurge in aggressive promotion of “reparative therapy” and “transformational ministry.” Reparative therapy" refers to psychotherapy to eliminate individuals’ sexual desires for members of their own gender. “Transformational ministry” refers to the use of religion to eliminate those desires. Since mid-1998, a number of organizations have invested significant resources in the promotion of “reparative therapy” and “transformational ministry” in the press, in conferences targeting educators, and in television and newspaper ads. This factsheet provides information from physicians, counselors, social workers, psychologists, legal experts, and educators who are knowledgeable about the development of sexual orientation in youth and the issues raised by “reparative therapy” and “transformational ministry.” …

The most important fact about “reparative therapy,” also sometimes known as “conversion” therapy, is that it is based on an understanding of homosexuality that has been rejected by all the major health and mental health professions. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of Social Workers, together representing more than 477,000 health and mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus there is no need for a “cure.”[/quote]

[stellar_horizon]

[quote]forlife wrote:
Quick answer: it is damaging because the major medical and mental health organizations say it is. They do not recommend it.

Longer answer:

Gay, lesbian, and bisexual youth must also cope with prejudiced, discriminatory, and violent behavior and messages in their families, schools, and communities. Such behavior and messages negatively affect the health, mental health and education of lesbian, gay, and bisexual young people. These students are more likely than heterosexual students to report missing school due to fear, being threatened by other students, and having their property damaged at school.1 The promotion of “reparative therapy” and “transformational ministry” is likely to exacerbate the risk of harassment, harm, and fear.

For these reasons, the experience of gay, lesbian, and bisexual teenagers is often one of isolation, fear of stigmatization, and lack of peer or familial support. Gay, lesbian, and bisexual youth have few opportunities for observing positive modeling by adults due to the general cultural bias that makes gay, lesbian, and bisexual people largely invisible. It is this isolation and lack of support that accounts in part for the higher rates of emotional distress,2 suicide attempts,3 and risky sexual behavior and substance use 4 that gay, lesbian, and bisexual students report compared to heterosexual students. Because of their legitimate fear of being harassed or hurt, gay, lesbian, or bisexual youth are less likely to ask for help. Thus, it is important that their environments be as open and accepting as possible, so these young people will feel comfortable sharing their thoughts and concerns. To be able to provide an accepting environment, school personnel need to understand the nature of sexual orientation development and be supportive of healthy development for all youth.

The above statement was made by the following organizations (whose job it is to evaluate what is damaging and what is not):

American Academy of Pediatrics

American Counseling Association

American Association of School Administrators

American Federation of Teachers

American Psychological Association

American School Health Association

Interfaith Alliance Foundation

National Association of School Psychologists

National Association of Social Workers

National Education Association

You will note that Zeb has never acknowledged the possibility that many of the behaviors that he condemns are actually driven by the homophobic culture that he promotes. In a more accepting environment, where gay kids can benefit from the same institutions enjoyed by heterosexuals, many of these negative consequences would be effectively addressed.
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forlife, this is a strawman. I asked you how orientation therapy has the potential to damage or harm homosexuals. Your cited response simply urges society to be more accepting of homosexuals because when they come out of the closet, they tend to be isolated and harassed (which I agree is wrong). It has said nothing to the effect of how transporting homosexuals or temporarily allowing them to reside in welcoming, accepting facilities that specialize in orientation adjustment services prove damaging. Again, how does orientation therapy specifically damage homosexuals?

Just like you’re implying that the high rate of anxiety and depression amongst homosexuals is due to a homophobic society, I could just as easily imply that the general rate of failure to orientation adjustment therapies is due to a heterophobic agenda which casts patients into a self-fulfilling prophecy of failure to change by constantly being spoon-fed that it’s impossible to change one’s orientation. That’s a double-edged sword you’re waving…

Peace be with you.