Brokeback Propaganda

[quote]Gleemonex wrote:
terribleivan wrote:
It’s just as healthy when homosexuals change their sexual attraction as when transexuals, pedophiles, and beastialitiers (like the word, I made it up!) change their sexual attaction.

There is no more evidence that pedophiles and bestialists can change their proclivities any more than people who participate in consentual and legal sexual activities.

Your point?

-Glee[/quote]

My point is that it’s a good idea to try to change destructive behavior. I said that. I am surprised you missed it. Were you speed reading?

[quote]Gleemonex wrote:
forlife wrote:
people can’t generally change their sexual orientation,

terribleivan wrote:
I just wanted to focus on this part of it. I noticed you included the word “generally”. But, if even one person changes from gay to straight, them the whole orientation from birth agrument is flawed.

Depends on which “orientation from birth” argument. You see, in the scientific community, people explore all the viable options they can think of, instead of blindly following the Great Book of Steve™. As human sexual orientation is not a wholly understood from a scientific standpoint, people are considering all sorts of theories.

And what’s really cool about science is if you know something about (in this case) homosexuality that the current scientists don’t, you can tell them. And if you can back up your assertions with proof, the scientists will believe you and will forward your ideas as the leading scientific theory.

-Glee[/quote]

Thanks for verifying that these conclusion you have seen in the scientific community are based off of theory. So, they are not factual, they are theoretical.

[quote]Gleemonex wrote:
ZEB wrote:
We really don’t need to hear any religious lectures from you!

Correction: we really don’t need to hear any religious lectures at all.

-Glee[/quote]

Not true. Some people have credibility with religion, and others do not. You are part of the later.

[quote]Gleemonex wrote:
terribleivan wrote:
Remember you brought up the “sex with a watermelon” idea? According to your logic, we should all be able to do that without much of a problem because we can put our cocks anywhere they fit.

You’ve never been an adolescent boy, have you?

-Glee

terribleivan wrote:
Tell me glee, have you?[/quote]

I most certainly have. I remember one instance where I discovered how good it felt to swim up against a water jet in the pool. I wasn’t thinking about girls at that particular time. Does that make me a waterjetsexual?

-Glee

[quote]terribleivan wrote:
My point is that it’s a good idea to try to change destructive behavior. I said that. I am surprised you missed it. Were you speed reading?
[/quote]

No, I read the whole thing. I just don’t see the connection between destructive behaviour and gay marriage. Care to enlighten me?

-Glee

[quote]Gleemonex wrote:
And what’s really cool about science is if you know something about (in this case) homosexuality that the current scientists don’t, you can tell them. And if you can back up your assertions with proof, the scientists will believe you and will forward your ideas as the leading scientific theory.

terribleivan wrote:
Thanks for verifying that these conclusion you have seen in the scientific community are based off of theory. So, they are not factual, they are theoretical.[/quote]

You’re welcome, but I’m not the one that verified it. Philosophers have verified it over and over again for centuries, going back at least to Plato’s Allegory of the Cave.

I don’t really see the need to branch out into epistemology right now, but feel free to start a new thread if you’re interested.

-Glee

forlife,

You know I think I am beginning to come around to your way of thinking.

Just because the gay lifestyle and the primary gay act is extremely dangerous and gay men lead in just about every area of communicable disease, including HIV…

And just because it is a flagrant disregard for how the human male body is supposed to function…

And just because it flys in the face of all that is natural (even if you are Godless)…

And just because it is against every major religion…

And just because thousands have indeed dropped their same sex attraction through therapy…

And just because 87% of all homosexual men have had sex with women (who’d a thought?)…

And just because as a group gay men are highly promiscuous which leads to the spread of HIV…

And just because a full 75% of the American public is against such an act…

And just becasuse 19 states have strongly rejected gay marriage…

And just because there is no way to actually have “safe” anal sex (according to the CDC)…

And just because as a group homosexuals lead the way in emotional problems including higher depression, anxiety and suicide rates…

And just because there has never been one shred of proof that homosexuals are “born that way” (but much evidence to the contrary)…

All those facts lining up against you mean nothing!

The important things are still on your side:

You are politically correct.

And…um…err…ah…well that’s it.

And we all know that facts are not as important as being politically correct…

(okay, well I tried to agree with you and this is as close as I could get…)

[quote]terribleivan wrote:
Homosexuals…can all benefit from change in sexual desire.[/quote]

According to your religious beliefs. Not according to every major medical and mental health organization (i.e., objective facts).

[quote]forlife wrote:
terribleivan wrote:
Homosexuals…can all benefit from change in sexual desire.

According to your religious beliefs. Not according to every major medical and mental health organization (i.e., objective facts).[/quote]

No…according to every available health statistic regarding homosexuals!

[quote]Gleemonex wrote:
terribleivan wrote:
My point is that it’s a good idea to try to change destructive behavior. I said that. I am surprised you missed it. Were you speed reading?

No, I read the whole thing. I just don’t see the connection between destructive behaviour and gay marriage. Care to enlighten me?

-Glee[/quote]

Who mentioned gay marriage? Are you sure we haven’t done this before glee? I think you lost the debate last time. Just because your name changes doesn’t mean the facts change.

[quote]Gleemonex wrote:
Gleemonex wrote:
terribleivan wrote:
Remember you brought up the “sex with a watermelon” idea? According to your logic, we should all be able to do that without much of a problem because we can put our cocks anywhere they fit.

You’ve never been an adolescent boy, have you?

-Glee

terribleivan wrote:
Tell me glee, have you?

I most certainly have. I remember one instance where I discovered how good it felt to swim up against a water jet in the pool. I wasn’t thinking about girls at that particular time. Does that make me a waterjetsexual?

-Glee[/quote]

Great. Between you and forlife, we now see that having sex with watermelons and waterjets is perfectly normal. You have no idea how messed up you are, do you?

[quote]forlife wrote:
terribleivan wrote:
Homosexuals…can all benefit from change in sexual desire.

According to your religious beliefs. Not according to every major medical and mental health organization (i.e., objective facts).[/quote]

My quote was referring to people who have sex with animals and small children as well as homosexuals. All three groups can benefit from change, and change is no more destructive for the homosexuals as it is for the first two groups.

I just want you to be aware that the homosexual continuum that you so avidly promote would protect beastiality and pedophilia as well as homosexuality.

[quote]terribleivan wrote:
Gleemonex wrote:
terribleivan wrote:
My point is that it’s a good idea to try to change destructive behavior. I said that. I am surprised you missed it. Were you speed reading?

No, I read the whole thing. I just don’t see the connection between destructive behaviour and gay marriage. Care to enlighten me?

-Glee

Who mentioned gay marriage? Are you sure we haven’t done this before glee? I think you lost the debate last time. Just because your name changes doesn’t mean the facts change.[/quote]

Okay…okay…that was funny! LMAO!

More lies and diversions from Zeb, who believes that the end (i.e., serving the Lord) justifies the means (i.e., intentionally perpetrating falsehoods to achieve said end).

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Just because the gay lifestyle and the primary gay act is extremely dangerous and gay men lead in just about every area of communicable disease, including HIV…[/quote]

  1. Heterosexuals lead in new rates of HIV infection outside the US.

  2. “Gay lifestyle” is a stereotype that ignores individual differences among homosexuals (just as there are individual differences among heterosexuals).

  3. Anal sex is not the “primary gay act”. It is more common among heterosexuals than among homosexuals.

By your twisted logic, cunnilingus is also a flagrant disregard for how the human male body is supposed to function. Mouths were made for eating, not licking vaginas! (for bonus points, see Glee’s comments earlier regarding male nipples)

Homosexuality has always existed in humans and in various animals in nature. It is, by definition, natural.

Religion is not based on objective reality. Regardless, there are many religions which are not homophobic (see the list of Christian religions provided earlier, for example).

Oh, you mean all those people in the Spitzer study, who Spitzer admitted had only changed their behavior rather than their orientation?

Sexual behavior is not sexual orientation. In a homophobic society, why are you surprised to see gay men trying to live like heterosexuals?

[qote]And just because as a group gay men are highly promiscuous which leads to the spread of HIV…[/quote]

See #1 and #2 above.

Actually, the majority of Americans (52% in the Gallup 2004 poll quoted previously)now accept homosexuality. Regardless, the majority of Americans once supported discrimination against women and minorities as well.

Discrimination is nothing new in this country.

According to the CDC, there is no such thing as “safe sex”, period. Abstinence is the only guarantee of total safety. That applies to both heterosexuals and homosexuals. The CDC does say that taking common sense precautions can significantly reduce the risk of sex (including anal sex).

Homosexuality is not a mental illness. Regardless, if gay men are more depressed and anxious than heterosexuals, have you considered that is because they live in a homophobic culture that directs 87% of them to have sex with women?? Lol.

See the long list of studies I provided earlier in this thread. Here’s a good recent one (published last month) to get you started:

[quote]TUESDAY, Feb. 21 (HealthDay News) – New research adds a twist to the debate on the origins of sexual orientation, suggesting that the genetics of mothers of multiple gay sons act differently than those of other women.

Scientists found that almost one fourth of the mothers who had more than one gay son processed X chromosomes in their bodies in the same way. Normally, women randomly process the chromosomes in one of two ways – half go one way, half go the other.

The research “confirms that there is a strong genetic basis for sexual orientation, and that for some gay men, genes on the X chromosome are involved,” said study co-author Sven Bocklandt, a postdoctoral researcher at the University of California at Los Angeles.

The link between genetics and sexual orientation has been a hot topic for more than a decade as a few scientists have tried to find genes that might make people gay or straight. In the new study, Bocklandt and colleagues examined a phenomenon called “X-chromosome inactivation.”

While females have two X chromosomes, they actually require only one and routinely inactivate the other, Bocklandt said. “That way, both men and women have basically one functional X chromosome,” he added. Men have both an X and Y chromosome, but the Y chromosome plays a much smaller role, he said.

Women typically inactivate one of their two X chromosomes at random. “It’s like flipping a coin,” Bocklandt said. “If you look at a woman in any given (bodily) tissue, you’d expect about half of the cells to inactivate one X, and half would inactivate the other.”

In the new study, researchers looked at 97 mothers of gay sons and 103 mothers without gay sons to see if there was any difference in how they handled their X chromosomes. The findings appear in the February issue of the journal Human Genetics.

“When we looked at women who have gay kids, in those with more than one gay son, we saw a quarter of them inactivate the same X in virtually every cell we checked,” Bocklandt said. “That’s extremely unusual.”

Forty-four of the women had more than one gay son.

In contrast, 4 percent of mothers with no gay sons activated the chromosome and 13 percent of those with just one gay son did.

The phenomenon of being more likely to inactivate one X chromosome – known as “extreme skewing” – is typically seen only in families that have major genetic irregularities, Bocklandt said.

What does this all mean? The researchers aren’t sure, but Bocklandt thinks he and his colleagues are moving closer to understanding the origins of sexual orientation.

“What’s really remarkable and very novel about this is that you see something in the bodies of women that is linked to a behavioral trait in their sons,” he said. “That’s new, that’s unheard of.”

Still, there are caveats. Dr. Ionel Sandovici, a genetics researcher at The Babraham Institute in Cambridge, England, pointed out that most of the mothers of multiple gay sons didn’t share the unusual X-chromosome trait. And the study itself is small, which means more research will need to be done to confirm its findings, Sandovici said.

Ultimately, Sandovici added, the origins of sexual orientation remain “rather a complicated biological puzzle.”

And this line of research does have its critics. Some have worried that, in the future, manipulation of a “gay gene” or genes might be used as a method of preventing homosexuality in utero, or perhaps even after. But Bocklandt said these kinds of fears shouldn’t stand in the way of legitimate scientific research.

“We’re trying to understand one of the most critical human traits: the ability to love and be attracted to others. Without sexual reproduction we would not exist, and sexual selection played an essential role in evolution,” he said. “Yet, we have no idea how it works, and that’s what we’re trying to find out. As with any research, the knowledge you acquire could be used for benefit or harm. But if [scientists] would have avoided research because we were afraid of what we were going to find, then we would still be living in the stone age.”[/quote]

[quote]ZEB wrote:
No…according to every available health statistic regarding homosexuals!
[/quote]

Every major medical and mental health organization in the world disagrees with you.

Homosexuality is not a mental illness, people don’t choose their sexual orientation, people cannot generally change their orientation, and attempting to do so can be DAMAGING and is NOT RECOMMENDED.

[quote]terribleivan wrote:
forlife wrote:
terribleivan wrote:
Homosexuals…can all benefit from change in sexual desire.

According to your religious beliefs. Not according to every major medical and mental health organization (i.e., objective facts).

My quote was referring to people who have sex with animals and small children as well as homosexuals. All three groups can benefit from change, and change is no more destructive for the homosexuals as it is for the first two groups.

I just want you to be aware that the homosexual continuum that you so avidly promote would protect beastiality and pedophilia as well as homosexuality.[/quote]

Shh…those things are still in the planning stages according to certain homosexual groups.

Stick aroun it will get a lot sicker…

“Sicker? According to your religion, not mine. What right do YOU have to push your beliefs on us?”

Oh my…I can hear it now…

[quote]terribleivan wrote:
My quote was referring to people who have sex with animals and small children as well as homosexuals. All three groups can benefit from change, and change is no more destructive for the homosexuals as it is for the first two groups. [/quote]

According to every major medical and mental health organization, attempting to turn a homosexual into a heterosexual can be DAMAGING and is NOT RECOMMENDED. Maybe if I point this out enough times, you fundamentalists will actually acknowledge it?

It is not something -I- made up…the sexual continuum is recognized by every major medical and mental health organization. It is a continuum between heterosexuality and homosexuality, by the way. Beastility and pedophilia are different (and recognized as such by these organizations).

[quote]terribleivan wrote:
Who mentioned gay marriage?[/quote]

You [1] did. Actually, you alternately did and didn’t, depending on how it suited your general and poorly-structured “anti-gay agenda”. When you’re talking about public acceptance, you reference same-sex marriage (75% against in Texas), but when you’re talking about health, suddenly you reference sexual activity statistics in the USA.

See my comment to ZEB a page or two ago. I’m never wrong, and I never lose debates.

Tell you what: make up your mind what you’re talking about, and get back to me.

-Glee


[1] By “you”, I mean ZEB of course, since you and he are in tacit agreement, as explicitly stated by yourself on several occasions.

[quote]Gleemonex wrote:
I remember one instance where I discovered how good it felt to swim up against a water jet in the pool. I wasn’t thinking about girls at that particular time. Does that make me a waterjetsexual?

terribleivan wrote:
Great. Between you and forlife, we now see that having sex with watermelons and waterjets is perfectly normal. You have no idea how messed up you are, do you?[/quote]

Ummm… swimming = sex?

You DO know how a water jet works, right? It’s a jet, of water.

Either way, for normal adolescent boys, it’s entirely normal to be aroused at the slightest provocation. For the devout abstinent, I guess they just suppress it until they happen upon an altar boy they can molest.

-Glee

[quote]forlife wrote:
More lies and diversions from Zeb, who believes that the end (i.e., serving the Lord) justifies the means (i.e., intentionally perpetrating falsehoods to achieve said end).[/quote]

You are not only living a lie, but seek to spread your viscious lies on this board. Lies that if accepted as truth would lead young men down a very dangerous path of no return…sort of like what you are living.

But then again misery loves company as the old sang goes.

There are far more heterosexuals than homosexuals. This is just one more way that you lie in order to confuse the facts.

What you should be asking is this: Why is there such a high rate of homosexuals with AIDS world wide? Higher by far “statistically” than heterosexuals.

And of course in the the US 65% of all HIV cases are homosexual men. That is pretty sad huh?

Explain that to everyone you are attempting to sway with your biased bull crap.

It happens to be a fact that most gay men lead promiscuous lifestyles. They have multiple sex partners of both genders. And they spread HIV and other STD’s into the hetersexual population.

That you won’t admit it is just one more item on your list of “denials.” When you come out of denial someday (if it ever happens) you won’t be so smug my very confused little friend!

You should have lied better with this one. Statistically more gays have anal sex than heterosexuals. But of course you want to play games with facts.

You know all anyone has to do is just think about it. There is only two main ways that two gay men have sex: oral or anal. How many do heterosexuals have?

Exactly!

There is no “Christian religion” that allows for, or promotes homosexual sex.

Sorry, try again.

And just because thousands have indeed

No I mean the thousands who are now living as heterosexuals with real families! The thousands who took the time and effort to undergo real therapy and are currently happy and of course healthy!

Those are the ones I’m talking about.

Ha ha…you are so lost.

You cannot “try” to have sex with someone you are not aroused by. And in fact if two heteros were to try to have sex with one another neither could perform the function and both would probably be repulsed by the idea.

Of course I now that’s not how it works in your world…

Wrong on the poll numbers and wrong trying to compare being homosexual to being a woman. ONE IS GENETIC THE OTHER IS A CHOICE.

In recent polls more people have rejected homosexuality than they did even 7 to 8 years earlier. The more they see of this lifestyle the less they like it.

Are they all homophobic, or just mildly sickened?

[quote]And just becasuse 19 states have strongly rejected gay marriage…

Discrimination is nothing new in this country.[/quote]

Some discrimination is bad. On the other hand some of it is good.

Glad to see you conceded this point. several posts back you were ranting about how “safe” sex prevents disease.

There might be hope for you yet.

[quote] gay men are more depressed and anxious than heterosexuals, have you considered that is because they live in a homophobic culture that directs 87% of them to have sex with women?? Lol.
[/quote]

Ha ha…you cannot “direct” anyone to have sex. There is not a man on this earth who can “direct” me to have sex with another man! P E R I O D.

And I might add the reason that they have emotional problems has to do with their reckless lifestyle and all that it entails…

Want some statistics?

[quote]And just because there has never been one shred of proof that homosexuals are “born that way” (but much evidence to the contrary)…

See the long list of studies I provided earlier in this thread. Here’s a good recent one (published last month) to get you started:
[/quote]

I read them and not one of them provides any proof that homosexuality is genetic! Only a fool would gather that from such data.

There is even more data that states the following:

  1. 45% of all homosexual men had been molested as children.

  2. Most homosexuals felt inadequate as children.

  3. Many homosexual men had a domineering mother or a distant father.

And the list goes on and on filled with social occurences while in childhood.

However, no one knows for sure how someone becomes homosexual. Hence, giving up trying to change when thousands have changed is indeed foolish!