[quote]forlife wrote:
ZEB wrote:
I’ll interpret this nonsense.
In other words, you’ll lie, misquote, and misconstrue.
Thou shalt not bear false witness.[/quote]
“Homosexuals shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
forlife,
Still waiting for you to read the many, many successful studies performed that demonstrate that people can and do change.
I know that you have your Sunday morning open.
Get busy…
[quote]I obviously don’t have the time to debunk every one of the poorly designed or misquoted studies that Zeb is fond of quoting. However, I have a propostion for you.
Pick out the single most compelling study in your list. I don’t care what it is…just take your best shot.
I’m willing to look at it, and explain to you either why the study itself is flawed, or how you are misquoting it. But only on one condition.
You must, in return, agree to actually address my points. In the past, when I’ve taken the time to do this, Zeb has literally ignored my entire post and pretended it didn’t exist.
If I’m going to take the time to show you why Zeb’s “evidence” isn’t accepted by the major medical and mental health organizations, the least you can do is actually consider and address the reasons I present.
Deal?
[/quote]
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Quite a little group you belong to
[/quote]
Approximately 2% of pedophiles are homosexuals. See the studies provided earlier.
Hi Zeb,
just wanted to ask you two questions. Since we’re both fundamentalists,(you: christian, me: agnostic, but who cares?)I thought you might listen.
If someone could prove that your facts are outdated or just wrong and you’d know he is correct, whould that change your opinion? Or are statistics and studies not really important in that discussion. [[quote]“I trust only those statistics I forged myself”[/quote]]
Second, I don’t really understand one of your major arguments. So what if you’re right and homosexuals are really more prone to diseases, mental disorders etc.?
So if I want to introduce my new black girlfriend to my parents and they complain: “Boy, you must be kidding, don’t you know that blacks have a 3% higher AIDS rate in Germany?” I guess I have to dump her?
So basically with that kind of argumentation you could ban nearly everyone from everything. “I am supposed to hire you? You’re a gypsy! You know the statistics and you know that gypsies have a 12% higher rate od commiting felonies!”
Hope you can clarify that.
Sincerely-
Schwarzfahrer
[quote]forlife wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Quite a little group you belong to
Approximately 2% of pedophiles are homosexuals. See the studies provided earlier.[/quote]
That stat sounds pretty low. where did you get it from?
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
I don’t really understand one of your major arguments. So what if you’re right and homosexuals are really more prone to diseases, mental disorders etc.?
So if I want to introduce my new black girlfriend to my parents and they complain: “Boy, you must be kidding, don’t you know that blacks have a 3% higher AIDS rate in Germany?” I guess I have to dump her?
So basically with that kind of argumentation you could ban nearly everyone from everything. “I am supposed to hire you? You’re a gypsy! You know the statistics and you know that gypsies have a 12% higher rate od commiting felonies!”
Hope you can clarify that.
Sincerely-
Schwarzfahrer
[/quote]
This has been covered time and time again in various threads.
Being black IS NOT CONTROLABLE.
Being gay IS CONTROLABLE.
You seem like a pretty smart dude. I am sure you will see the error of your post.
Terrible Ivan:
You’re wrong, for the debate, it’s meaningless if you can or cannot choose your “membership”.
So my question remains.
[quote]terribleivan wrote:
That stat sounds pretty low. where did you get it from?[/quote]
Dr. William C. Holmes, Assistant Professor of Medicine at the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine, authored a study in the December 1998 issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association that reports that 98% of all male perpetrators who had sexually abused boys were identified in their families and communities as heterosexual.
Dr. Carole Jenny reviewed 352 medical charts, representing all of the sexually abused children seen in the emergency room or child abuse clinic of a Denver children’s hospital during a one-year period (from July 1, 1991 to June 30, 1992). The molester was a gay or lesbian adult in only 2 of the 269 cases in which an adult molester could be identified - fewer than 1% (Jenny et al., 1994).
[quote]terribleivan wrote:
Being black IS NOT CONTROLABLE.
Being gay IS CONTROLABLE.[/quote]
Wrong.
The Surgeon General’s Call to Action to Promote Sexual Health and Responsible Sexual Behavior (2001) asserts that homosexuality is not “a reversible lifestyle choice.”
The American Academy of Pediatrics in its policy statement on Homosexuality and Adolescence states:
Even if you were right about homosexuality being a choice though, you missed the point of the question. Are you suggesting that he toss his fiance aside if she belonged to a group (voluntary or not) that was statistically more likely to have health problems?
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
to diseases, mental disorders etc.?
So if I want to introduce my new black girlfriend to my parents and they complain: “Boy, you must be kidding, don’t you know that blacks have a 3% higher AIDS rate in Germany?” I guess I have to dump her?[/quote]
Not at all!
You see, if you have followed my argument you would know that I have consistently stated that the primary homosexual act is inherently dangerous (Event the CDC says that it is unsafe. And can only be made “safer” never “safe.”) In addition to that the promiscuous lifestyle that (most) gays lead is also conducive to yet more physical and emotional problems.
I think a beterr comparison (and one that I have used before) is with cigarette smokers. There is no safe way to smoke a cigarette. And smoking causes long term damage and pain.
That’s why 65% of all new HIV cases in the US are homosexual men. Now just think for a moment. If it were cigarette smoking that caused HIV infection we would be inundated with millions worth of TV commericals informing us of this new smoking hazard.
But because the politically correct wield some power how many people who have not read this thread are even aware of the above figure?
Good reading:
http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/PUBS/Facts/msm.htm
But of course it’s not just HIV which is killing the gay population. There are a host of other disease’s that are involved:
“1998, September 4). Mortality and Morbidity Weekly Report (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention). p. 708.
Outbreaks of hepatitis A among men who have sex with men are a recurring problem in many large cities in the industrialized world.”
“(1999, January 29). Increases in unsafe sex and rectal gonorrhea among men who have sex with men ? San Francisco, California, 1994-1997. Mortality and Morbidity Weekly Report (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention). p. 45.”
It’s simply not a good lifestyle.
“Cochran, S.D. et al. (2001 April). Cancer-related risk indicators and preventive screening behaviors among lesbians and bisexual women. American Journal of Public Health. 91 (4); 178-81.
Increased prevalence rates were found in lesbian/bisexual women for obesity, alcohol use, and tobacco use.”
“Daling, J.R. et al. (1987, October 15). Sexual practices, sexually transmitted diseases, and the incidence of anal cancer. The New England Journal of Medicine. 317 (16): 973-977.
Anal cancers was strongly associated with a history of male homosexual activity.”
" Quinn, T.C. (1984). Gay bowel syndrome. The broadened spectrum of non-genital infection. Postgraduate Medicine. 76: 197-198, 201-210.
Rotello, G. (1997). Sexual Ecology: AIDS and the Destiny of Gay Men. NY: Dutton.
?Who wants to encourage their kids to engage in a life that exposes them to a 50 percent chance of HIV infection? Who even wants to be neutral about such a possibility? If the rationale behind social tolerance of homosexuality is that it allows gay kids an equal shot at the pursuit of happiness, that rationale is hopelessly undermined by an endless epidemic that negates happiness.? (p. 286)"
That fact is the general population has been lied to by many involved in the gay movement. They don’t want you to know the facts as it puts their entire lifestyle in a very unfavorable light!
[quote]forlife wrote:
terribleivan wrote:
That stat sounds pretty low. where did you get it from?
Dr. William C. Holmes, Assistant Professor of Medicine at the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine, authored a study in the December 1998 issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association that reports that 98% of all male perpetrators who had sexually abused boys were identified in their families and communities as heterosexual.
Dr. Carole Jenny reviewed 352 medical charts, representing all of the sexually abused children seen in the emergency room or child abuse clinic of a Denver children’s hospital during a one-year period (from July 1, 1991 to June 30, 1992). The molester was a gay or lesbian adult in only 2 of the 269 cases in which an adult molester could be identified - fewer than 1% (Jenny et al., 1994).
[/quote]
So much for the political correct ivory tower experts. LOL
That is onle ONE STUDY. Are you trying to lie to everyone?
Nawwww…
Now some facts for the readers:
"(March 1992). Editorial, No Place for Homo-Homophobia, S.F. Sentinel (on file with author.)
"Leading mainstream homosexual newspapers and magazines such as the Advocate, Edge, Metroline, The Guide, and The San Francisco Sentinel have not only published pro-NAMBLA articles and columns but also many have editorialized in favor of NAMBLA and sex with children. The editor of The Guide, Ed Hougen, stated in an interview with Lambda Report, “I believe they [NAMBLA] are generally interested in the right of young people to be sexual?.I am glad there is a group like NAMBLA that is willing to be courageous.” The San Francisco Sentinel was more blunt: “NAMBLA’s position on sex is not unreasonable, just unpopular. [W]hen a 14-year-old gay boy approaches a man for sex, it’s because he wants sex with a man.”
AND
"(July 1999). The Real Child Abuse, The Guide, (on file with author).
“In 1995, the homosexual magazine Guide stated: 'We can be proud that the gay movement has been home to the few voices who have had the courage to say out loud that children are naturally sexual, that they deserve the right to sexual expression with whoever they choose?[w]e must listen to our prophets. Instead of fearing being labeled pedophiles, we must proudly proclaim that sex is good, including children’s sexuality?.We must do it for the children’s sake.”
AS FOR CHILD MOLESTATION BY HOMOSEXUALS:
"Abel, Eugene et al, Self-Reported Sex Crimes of Nonincarcerated Pedophiliacs, 2 J. Interpersonal Violence 3, 5 (1987).
“Child molestation, by comparison, was a relatively infrequent crime, occurring from an average of 23.2 times by a pedophile (non-incest) with female targets to an average of 281.7 times by a pedophile (non-incest) whose targets were males.”
“?homosexuals sexually molest young boys with an incidence that is five times greater than the molestation of girls.”
"Bell, A.P., Weinberg, M.S., Homosexualities: A Study of Diversity Among Men and Women (New York: Simon and Schuster, 1978), pp. 308, 9; see also Bell, Weinberg & Hammersmith, Sexual Preference (Bloomington: Indiana University Press, 1981).
25% of white gay men have had sex with boys 16 years old and younger."
“Jay, K., Young, A. The Gay Report: Lesbians and Gay Men Speak Out about Sexual Experiences and Lifestyles (New York: Summit Books, 1979) p. 275.
?73% of homosexuals surveyed had at some time had sex with boys sixteen to nineteen years of age or younger.”
Do homosexual men molest boys at a higher rate than heterosexuals because they were molested whent they were young?
"Doll, L.S., Joy, D., Batholow, B., Harrison, J., Bolan, G., Douglas, J., Saltzman, L., Moss, P., Delgado, W. (1992) Self-reported childhood and adolescent sexual abuse among adult homosexual and bisexual men. Child Abuse & Neglect. 18:825-864.
42% of a sample of 1,001 homosexual men reported childhood experiences that met the criteria for sexual abuse.
1,001 adult homosexual and bisexual men attending sexually transmitted disease clinics were interviewed regarding potentially abusive sexual contacts during childhood and adolescence. Thirty-seven percent of participants reported they had been encouraged or forced to have sexual contact before age 19 with an older or more powerful partner; Median age of the participant at first contact was 10; median age difference between partners was 11 years. Fifty-one percent involved use of force; 33% involved anal sex. 93% of participants reporting sexual contact with an older or more powerful partner were classified as sexually abused."
Is it any wonder that the Boy Scouts of America have demanded that homosexual men not take part in their this great organization?
"Geissinger, Steve. Scouts Remove 1,800 Scoutmasters for Suspected Abuse Over Two Decades, Assoc. Press, Oct. 14, 1993 (on file with author).
This unprecedented glimpse into the world of Scout pedophiles revealed that thousands of boys had been molested by Scout leaders and other volunteers between 1971 and 1991 resulting in the expulsion of over 1,800 Scout volunteers for pedophile activity. The documents show that some Scout leaders molested over forty boys before getting caught and that many, once caught, simply moved to a different Scout troop and continued abusing boys."
More information on the next post.
Continued…
[quote]forlife wrote:
terribleivan wrote:
That stat sounds pretty low. where did you get it from?
Dr. William C. Holmes, Assistant Professor of Medicine at the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine, authored a study in the December 1998 issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association that reports that 98% of all male perpetrators who had sexually abused boys were identified in their families and communities as heterosexual.
Dr. Carole Jenny reviewed 352 medical charts, representing all of the sexually abused children seen in the emergency room or child abuse clinic of a Denver children’s hospital during a one-year period (from July 1, 1991 to June 30, 1992). The molester was a gay or lesbian adult in only 2 of the 269 cases in which an adult molester could be identified - fewer than 1% (Jenny et al., 1994).
[/quote]
As I stated in my previous post. forlife cites one or two studies performed by politically correct ivory tower folks.
Here is even more evidence which demonstrates that homosexuals are a very serious danger to boys, just at the Boy Scouts of America has clearly pointed out in my previous post:
"Homosexual activists routinely claim that most child molesters are “heterosexual” males, thus shifting the focus away from their own very high rates of molestation.
Since 98-99% of the population is heterosexual, it is technically correct to say that most molestations are done by heterosexuals. However, statistics indicate that homosexuals pose a far more serious threat to children than do heterosexuals.
For example: In 1987, Dr. Stephen Rubin of Whitman College conducted a ten-state study of sex abuse cases involving school teachers. He studied 199 cases. Of those, 122 male teachers had molested girls, while 14 female teachers had molested boys. He also discovered that 59 homosexual male teachers had molested boys and four female homosexual teachers had molested girls. In other words, 32 percent of those child molestation cases involved homosexuals. Nearly a third of these cases come from only 1-2% of the population.
Dr. Judith Reisman, in her book, Kinsey, Crimes & Consequences, describes the research done by Dr. Gene Abel. This researcher compared the molestation rates of self-confessed homosexual and heterosexual child molesters. In a sample of 153 homosexual molesters, they confessed to a total of 22,981 molestations. This is equivalent to 150 children per molester. Self-admitted heterosexual molesters admitted to 4,435 molestations. This comes to 19.8 victims per molester. Dr. Abel concluded that homosexuals ?sexually molest young boys at an incidence that is occurring from five times greater than the molestation of girls.?
This high rate of molestations by homosexuals is consistent with other studies conducted during the past several decades. Here are just a few studies that show homosexuals molesting children at epidemic rates:
The Los Angeles Times conducted a survey in 1985 of 2,628 adults across the U.S. Of those, 27% of the women and 16% of the men had been sexually molested. Seven percent of the girls and 93% of the men had been molested by adults of the same sex. This means that 40% of child molestations were by homosexuals. (Los Angeles Times, August 25-6, 1985)
In 1984, a Vermont survey of 161 adolescents who were sex offenders found that 35 of them were homosexuals (22%). (Wasserman, J., ?Adolescent Sex Offenders?Vermont, 1984? Journal American Medical Association, 1986; 255:181-2)
In 1991, of the 100 child molesters at the Massachusetts Treatment Center for Sexually Dangerous Persons, a third were heterosexual, a third were bisexual, and a third were homosexual. (Dr. Raymond Knight, ?Differential Prevalence of Personality Disorders in Rapists and Child Molesters,? Eastern Psychological Association Conference, New York, April 12, 1991)
Drs. Freund and Heasman of the Clark Institute of Psychiatry in Toronto reviewed two studies on child molesters and calculated that 34% and 32% of the sex offenders were homosexual. In cases these doctors had handled, 36% of the molesters were homosexuals. (Freund, K. ?Pedophilia and Heterosexuality vs. Homosexuality,? Journal of Sex & Marital Therapy, 1984; 10:193-200)
From these studies and many more, it is evident that homosexuals molest children at a far greater rate than do their heterosexual counterparts. While they comprise only 1-2% of the population, they (homosexuals) are responsible for upwards of a third or more of all sexual molestations of children."
The facts are in!
Don’t be fooled by the politically correct and the homosexual lobbies. Homosexual men molest young boys at a much higher rate than do heterosexuals!
forlife is doing the usual gay shuffle with the facts…
Hey is that lying?
[quote]forlife wrote:
terribleivan wrote:
Being black IS NOT CONTROLABLE.
Being gay IS CONTROLABLE.[/quote]
RIGHT YOU ARE!
I have posted about 70 studies which demonstrate that people can change if the want to.
forlife didn’t so he seeks to undermind all of those who have left the homosexual lifestyle.
And in addition to this, no one is forecd to act on a homosexual urge. Sex is a behavior we all know this!
And of course it has never been proven to be genetic. And in fact there are many quality studies which demonstrate that it is more “nuture” than “nature.”
Don’t buy into the lies of the politically correct-
[quote]miniross wrote:
Are the people wrestling or kissing in your picture.
Its hard to tell.
[/quote]
They’re kissing on the cheeks and the father is giving his son [the prodigal son described in the Bible] a loving hug. Please don’t confuse this as a homosexual embrace or a wrestling bout. I’m a grown man and I kiss my father (and mother) on the cheek from time-to-time. In fact, kissing on the cheeks regardless of the gender of the recipient was always a sign of peace between Christians as seen in the Holy Scriptures. Later, other civilizations in Europe adopted this practice and countries such as Greece, Italy, Spain, Germany, Serbia, and other regions that are not necessarily entrenched in Christianity practice a likewise greeting nowadays. It is an embrace of agape, not of eros; there’s a huge difference between the natures of these contrasting types of love - something the American public commonly misidentifies…
It’s funny that you mentioned the pic because I knew after witnessing the pic that people would be confused about the nature of the encounter.
Peace be with you.
[quote]That’s why 65% of all new HIV cases in the US are homosexual men. Now just think for a moment. If it were cigarette smoking that caused HIV infection we would be inundated with millions worth of TV commericals informing us of this new smoking hazard.
But because the politically correct wield some power how many people who have not read this thread are even aware of the above figure? [/quote]
Ahahahahaha. 65% is of course a lot, but it isn’t exactly an awe inspiring number.
That’s 15% more than half and half. Ahahahahaha. I can see it now. If it was 51% you’d still think it was important somehow.
What a crock.
cv [quote]vroom wrote:
That’s why 65% of all new HIV cases in the US are homosexual men. Now just think for a moment. If it were cigarette smoking that caused HIV infection we would be inundated with millions worth of TV commericals informing us of this new smoking hazard.
But because the politically correct wield some power how many people who have not read this thread are even aware of the above figure?
Ahahahahaha. 65% is of course a lot, but it isn’t exactly an awe inspiring number.
That’s 15% more than half and half. Ahahahahaha. I can see it now. If it was 51% you’d still think it was important somehow.
What a crock.[/quote]
2% of the US population (homosexual men) are responsible for 65% of all new HIV cases in the United States!
You think that’s a croc?
I’m sorry, I don’t follow your logic vroom, and you are usually a very logical guy.
Aw shoot, I wasn’t following along very closely.
I don’t exactly believe your stats, but I’m not going to put in the work to try to refute them or clarify their meaning.
What shocked me was an article which ZEB posted about homosexual activists trying to repeal the ban on adult/child sex acts in Kansas! If there’s one way to disprove that homosexuals are [b]not[/b] child predators, these homosexual activists are doing everything but helping the cause.
Where do we draw the line? Are we to legalize incest, polygamy, beastiality, and pedophilia simply because some ancient cultures permitted these behaviors?
I would hope that forlife is not a pedophile. There are bad apples in every bunch, [b]so I would like to think[/b] that most homosexuals do not share the sentiments of their aforementioned leaders. What puzzles me is how these homosexual activists gain ground within their communities by preaching of the promotion of such despicable crimes yet not being defrocked by their followers.
I can only contemplate of two possible scenarios in analyzing the situation: b[/b] perhaps their followers agree with the promotion of pedophilia and other forms of sexual immorality like incest/beastiality (which is quite scary), or b[/b] these activists themselves don’t have much of a support system or fanbase. Nonetheless, it’s obvious that by giving someone an inch, they tend to take a mile. Under this premise, I vote no to the legalization of gay marriage. Next thing you know, Congress will be launching debates about repealing incest, polygamy, & beastiality laws…
I’m reminded of this cliche:
[i]If you don’t stand for something, you’ll fall for everything.[/i]
Peace be with all.
[quote]vroom wrote:
Aw shoot, I wasn’t following along very closely.
I don’t exactly believe your stats, but I’m not going to put in the work to try to refute them or clarify their meaning.[/quote]
ZEB, this is really an apology masked in disguise. Kudos to you for educating the masses on a serious issue. I guess this is the liberal’s way of thanking you without them hurting the feelings of the minority. It seems the liberals have mastered a soft, slow dance until you mention religion which is when they stomp out full force and into the mosh pits…
Good work and peace be with you.