Brilliant Men Betray Wives

[quote]dranon wrote:
I think he betrayed himself! By willing to compromise in the sexual area and believing that he could be happy with her the way she was! Is it her fault? NO! He knew what her sex drive was and he knew what the “quality” of their lovemaking was. He totally accepts the blame, but he is unwilling to live without the sex he so strongly desires. I really sypathise with my friend and I have no answers for him. He just hopes that someday his sex drive will wane enough so that he can be exclusive with his wife again.[/quote]

Ah. That paints a different picture.

He dug his own grave.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
dranon, your buddy sounds like he settled on a marriage just to have have a wife and kids.

Unless his wife is a kook she is not OK with it no matter what she says.

When his kids find out they will hate him for it. They will look back at every moment in their lives that he was not there and assume he blew them off for his mistress.

This will end poorly for him.[/quote]

So true.

Specially the point about the kids hating him for it.

[quote]dranon wrote:
Oh they have sex its just once every week or two… She has orgasms and enjoys sex. She just doesn’t have mind-blowing ones. She doesn’t get into it [/quote]

RED KAT

Meow! ; )

[quote]dranon wrote:
They both are getting the mind-blowing sex with each other that they dont get at home…[/quote]

You said he spends 1/2 with her after work.

Is it the sex that is mind-blowing or is it maybe:

a.the excitement coming from the risk taking and
b.the agression of their own betrayal?

the only thing that we must understand that it is not morality, nor guilt that keeps us from this. its the fact that no matter how bad its seems with your spouse or how much you cant stand them… a small part ( the part that stops you) loves them

I had a long talk with my friend last night. He’s pretty pissed off at me for talking about this on a web board but I reassured him that there is no way someone could find out about this. I really feel sorry for him, he does feel bad about doing this but he is unwilling to give up the sex! He feels why should he give up this great part of his life and commit the rest of it to just humdrum sex? I asked him what he do if his wife did find out, he said at this point the only reason he stays with her is because of the kids and the nice home life. If there were no kids he would leave. He said there is no way I could really understand unless I was sexually frustrated EVERY DAY like he is.

He just wants the sex. Its not even this girl he says. If he left his wife he would look for a new gal to have a relationship with. Its not the danger of getting caught or the “thrill” of the affair, I mean its been going on for years. He just wants great sex and jerking off to internet porn just wasn’t enuff for him.

[quote]dranon wrote:

He really loves and respects his wife. She is his best friend. They do just about everything together. This is why I had trouble understanding his stepping out on her.[/quote]

I thought you said he really loved her.

Another picture is now emerging.

Looks like your friend is a shemale since I don’t know any other type of male that uses “love talk” as a tool for emotional manipulation.

If that is the case then there is no trouble understanding. He just wants to be taken care of and have his needs attended within the “security” that the arrangement of marriege offers and still live the life style of a playboy/sextoy

You got it wrong! Aplayboy wants to play around with different women. He doesn’t want that. He wishes his wife would give him all he needs but he’s accepted that thats not going to happen. He loves and cares deeply for her but the passion is gone, probably because he never got it from her. The gal he sees now is just a “banging buddy” he doesn’t feel love for her, but they fill each others needs. He is not going to leave his wife and he is NOT looking for other girls.

[quote]Alpha F wrote:
dranon wrote:

He really loves and respects his wife. She is his best friend. They do just about everything together. This is why I had trouble understanding his stepping out on her.

I thought you said he really loved her.

Another picture is now emerging.

Looks like your friend is a shemale since I don’t know any other type of male that uses “love talk” as a tool for emotional manipulation.
I dont know what you mean “shemale???” He definitely does NOT manipulate her! He takes VERY good care of her and his family, in no way is even slightly verbally manipulative or abusive.
If that is the case then there is no trouble understanding. He just wants to be taken care of and have his needs attended within the “security” that the arrangement of marriege offers and still live the life style of a playboy/sextoy
[/quote]

Doesn’t just about everyone want that!! He does not want to be a playboy, he wants one women and he wants to be THAT womens sextoy, he just wishes it was his wife! But if it cant be, why should he do(suffer) without??

[quote]dranon wrote:
Alpha F wrote:
dranon wrote:

He really loves and respects his wife. She is his best friend. They do just about everything together. This is why I had trouble understanding his stepping out on her.

I thought you said he really loved her.

Another picture is now emerging.

Looks like your friend is a shemale since I don’t know any other type of male that uses “love talk” as a tool for emotional manipulation.
I dont know what you mean “shemale???” He definitely does NOT manipulate her! He takes VERY good care of her and his family, in no way is even slightly verbally manipulative or abusive.
If that is the case then there is no trouble understanding. He just wants to be taken care of and have his needs attended within the “security” that the arrangement of marriege offers and still live the life style of a playboy/sextoy

Doesn’t just about everyone want that!! He does not want to be a playboy, he wants one women and he wants to be THAT womens sextoy, he just wishes it was his wife! But if it cant be, why should he do(suffer) without??
[/quote]

Why should she have to be betrayed and deceived? Why can’t he find a woman that satisfies him all levels? It’s hard, but people do it. He may think this is the best way for him, but I think he’s setttling. And I think it’s a disservice and wrong to do to his wife and family. You talked about the hurt and betrayal the spouses would feel if they found out. Well, things havc a way of coming to the surface. Plenty of affairs that were succesfully hidden for years on end are ultimately revealed.

[quote]dranon wrote:
I had a long talk with my friend last night. He’s pretty pissed off at me for talking about this on a web board but I reassured him that there is no way someone could find out about this. I really feel sorry for him, he does feel bad about doing this but he is unwilling to give up the sex! He feels why should he give up this great part of his life and commit the rest of it to just humdrum sex? I asked him what he do if his wife did find out, he said at this point the only reason he stays with her is because of the kids and the nice home life. If there were no kids he would leave. He said there is no way I could really understand unless I was sexually frustrated EVERY DAY like he is.[/quote]

Heh. So, it’s healthier for the kids to see their parents in a loveless marriage? Kids pick up on these things even subconsiously. And if it comes to surface, how are the kids going to feel when they learn their dad had been cheating on their mom for 15 years? It also sounds to me like he doesn’t particularly value his wife as a companion or soulmate minus sex. More like just a good housekeeper.

[quote]daltron wrote:
Or… Men who cheat on their wives are just plain scum.[/quote]

i agree too

Yeah this is so easy to judge him by what you read here on this board, BUT I have known him longer than his wife, and I know all the kids. I see the care and respect and love he gives to his family. I’ve seen and know “golf widows” or “football widows” guys that dont spend enough time with their family. Sat and/or Sunday spent on Golf with their buddies. They go hunting and fishing etc. etc. Guys with familys that spend too much time at the gym and their own selfish interests, he is not like that!
He is a good family man, no one would EVER suspect him of this. I care a lot about my friend and hate to see him hurt like this, and believe me I judged him harshly over this. I don’t approve but I cant completely Dis-approve. I know how important really good sex is and if I had the same problem with my wife I can’t say that I wouldn’t look for it elsewhere.

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
dranon wrote:
I had a long talk with my friend last night. He’s pretty pissed off at me for talking about this on a web board but I reassured him that there is no way someone could find out about this. I really feel sorry for him, he does feel bad about doing this but he is unwilling to give up the sex! He feels why should he give up this great part of his life and commit the rest of it to just humdrum sex? I asked him what he do if his wife did find out, he said at this point the only reason he stays with her is because of the kids and the nice home life. If there were no kids he would leave. He said there is no way I could really understand unless I was sexually frustrated EVERY DAY like he is.

Heh. So, it’s healthier for the kids to see their parents in a loveless marriage? Kids pick up on these things even subconsiously. And if it comes to surface, how are the kids going to feel when they learn their dad had been cheating on their mom for 15 years? It also sounds to me like he doesn’t particularly value his wife as a companion or soulmate minus sex. More like just a good housekeeper.[/quote]

JS, I think you have very good values and that is admirable. The only thing I think you lack somewhat is the being there experience. Sometimes relationships you get into do get very complicated and one has to try and balance being decent to the other person, being true to themselves, not hurting the other person, and having the balls to end something when it aint going the direction you want.

Many people get into a situation that they think it is too hard to get out of and they don’t want to be the bad guy and before you know it their in a rock and a hard place. I guess all I am saying is you views are correct, but in the future you may find it’s not always easy to adhere to them.

D

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
Hmm…let’s think about this here. Is the difference in sexual practices/supposed urges of men and women biological or cultural?[/quote]

It’s both, but biology is more primal than culture. What is true about women in terms of their biology apples to women of all cultures.

I don’t think women are capable of being just as horny as men because they simply haven’t got the equipment to feel pleasure the way men do! They haven’t got real penises!

Also, I disagree with your point about women’s capacity for having multiple O’s and what this says about their sexuality. I am convinced, without doubt, that the reason women can “orgasm” multiple times is because their orgasms are nowhere near as intense as the male version. Women’s orgasms are equivalent to the weak versions experienced by pre-pubescent males. If we are define all O’s by this weak standard, then men orgasm dozens of times in every sexual encounter and easily beat their female counterparts.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
This is a social thing. And I still get hit on all the time by women and I am an average looking guy.[/quote]

How did it get to be a social thing in the first place? Society builds on the foundation laid by biology. That’s how.

You are likely getting hit on by some women who are simply interested in your money. This happens all the time TO men from women, but practically never FROM men to women.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
It is a power play and it is easily reversed. If you are in a long term relationship and your parter withholds sex turn the tables. It works.[/quote]

Your logic doesn’t hold. A true power play exploits some advantage that one person has over another. Therefore, withholding sex can only be a power play if one person wants it more than the other. If they both wanted it to the same extent, then they would both be equally deprived, and thus neither person would be in an advantageous position over the other. There is no doubt that withholding sex is a power play, but in order for this to be true, you must also accept that men and women do not have equal sex drives.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
You appear to be confusing things.

Men need to orgasm to impregnate women so men easily orgasm.

While female orgasm can help her get pregnant it is by no means necessary.[/quote]

Orgasms can be considered for their biological function (insemination) or for their pleasure aspect. It was the latter that I was addressing. I do not believe I have anything confused.

I think that you and others who hold the belief of gender parity on the sexual level must be living on a different planet. Take 10 average women and 10 average men. You offer each one of them the opportunity to sleep with a member of the opposite sex. Then you compare the rate of acceptance of this proposal from one gender to another. Isn’t it a given that the rate of acceptance will be skewed heavily towards the male side? This is a very simple demonstration of the biological fact that women do not derive as much physical pleasure from sex as men do, and thus are nowhere near as inclined to partake in sexual acts.

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
That is absolutely ridiculous. Now a woman is simply a male enuch. And because she has a different biological structure that makes her sex drive lower? The clit is still a sex orgasm. Stimulation leads to orgasm. And women have vaginal orgasms as well. Does a man with a small penis have a lower sex drive than a large penis? And here’s a much simpler explanation for why women have been subservient to men historically. Women, in general, are smaller and weaker. Until very recently, size and strength have been put at a great premium. Lo and behold, as other factors have become increasingly important for us a a species to thrive and have succesful societies, women have made great strides.[/quote]

What’s so ridiculous? It’s biology. Science. What I have written is true. Hormone levels are pretty much all that seperates the sexes.

Women haven’t got “different” biological structures, per se. The use of that word conjures up an invisible wall of seperation that can never be surmounted. But that’s malarkey, because men and women aren’t “seperate” entities, they are merely opposing ends of the same spectrum, with the only real difference between them coming in the form of hormones. Hormones can be altered.

There are features of both sexes that are considered structurally analagous to one another in biology. Their embryonic development is the same or very similiar, and they are constructed from the same tissues. The penis and the clit are one example. The testes and the ovaries are another. Such comparisons can be made between all gender-specific bodyparts.

It horrifies most men to think of their female partners as nothing more than male eunuchs wearing face paint and a dress, but biologically speaking, that statement is perfectly accurate. Welcome to the 21st century. It’s a brave new world.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
In other words, stop thinking and acting like a human being and restrict the range of your consciousness to that of an animal’s.
[/quote]

Humans beings are also animals. Misery and suffering are the traits that best characterize the human animal.

What I have written about can be associated with Buddhism, Transcendentalism, and various Eastern schools of thought.

Nothing you say or do can disprove the validity of what I wrote. There are no guarantees in life, there is no way to control the future, and therefore, all promises are lies. Hope is “the currency of the weak”, to quote one social philosopher.

To overcome the weakness imposed by one’s mental “spooks” is to be an enlightened person.

[quote]dranon wrote:
Yeah this is so easy to judge him by what you read here on this board, BUT I have known him longer than his wife, and I know all the kids. I see the care and respect and love he gives to his family. I’ve seen and know “golf widows” or “football widows” guys that dont spend enough time with their family. Sat and/or Sunday spent on Golf with their buddies. They go hunting and fishing etc. etc. Guys with familys that spend too much time at the gym and their own selfish interests, he is not like that!
He is a good family man, no one would EVER suspect him of this. I care a lot about my friend and hate to see him hurt like this, and believe me I judged him harshly over this. I don’t approve but I cant completely Dis-approve. I know how important really good sex is and if I had the same problem with my wife I can’t say that I wouldn’t look for it elsewhere.[/quote]

This is very true and a very good post. A lot of men betray their families in the ways you mention above. Fatherless children because their “sport” “career” “male bonding” is where their emotions go.

I also agree with Dedicated and since I have never experienced this predicament I don’t know how I would react. This example has puzzled me preciselly because it seems more complex then the “playboy” married man syndrome.

I tried to put myself in your friend’s shoes and the only comment I can make at this point is I have been unable to separate friendship and sex. You would have to become familiar and emotionaly intimate to me for me to then allow sexual intimacy to occur.I have to like you intensily to share myself sexualy with you-intensily. I can’t do it in half measures.
I have been unable to cut myself off below the waist and I feel no reason to do so - except to meet the expectations of society, which I won’t.

I try to understand how someone like him can sell himself short into the altar of marriage with someone he KNEW IN ADVANCE wasn’t fully compatible - but did he? Maybe his moment of weakness was thinking he was strong enough to settle for a “vanilla” sexual wife.
Or, was he just like many women who marry hoping their men will change after marriage and they don’t?

I don’t have any answers.

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:

Zap Branigan wrote:
This is a social thing. And I still get hit on all the time by women and I am an average looking guy.

How did it get to be a social thing in the first place? Society builds on the foundation laid by biology. That’s how.
[/quote]
Other societies believe that womens sex drives are stronger.

Has the biology changed?

No it has not.

I drive a beater car, and dress down for work. They don’t hit on me for my money. They hit on me because they are horny and I look like I can get it up.

[/quote]
Zap Branigan wrote:
It is a power play and it is easily reversed. If you are in a long term relationship and your parter withholds sex turn the tables. It works.

Your logic doesn’t hold. A true power play exploits some advantage that one person has over another. Therefore, withholding sex can only be a power play if one person wants it more than the other. If they both wanted it to the same extent, then they would both be equally deprived, and thus neither person would be in an advantageous position over the other. There is no doubt that withholding sex is a power play, but in order for this to be true, you must also accept that men and women do not have equal sex drives.
[/quote]

Huh? Some men let women get the advantageous position because they are as confused as you are. It has nothing to do with one gender having a stronger sex drive.

You have everything confused. Sex is not merely about orgasm.

Have you ever had a serious relationship with a woman?

If so by your posts I would venture it ended poorly.

Your understanding of women skewed.

It seems you do not think women are real people.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Nominal Prospect wrote:

Zap Branigan wrote:
This is a social thing. And I still get hit on all the time by women and I am an average looking guy.

How did it get to be a social thing in the first place? Society builds on the foundation laid by biology. That’s how.

Other societies believe that womens sex drives are stronger.

Has the biology changed?

No it has not.

You are likely getting hit on by some women who are simply interested in your money. This happens all the time TO men from women, but practically never FROM men to women.

I drive a beater car, and dress down for work. They don’t hit on me for my money. They hit on me because they are horny and I look like I can get it up.

Zap Branigan wrote:
It is a power play and it is easily reversed. If you are in a long term relationship and your parter withholds sex turn the tables. It works.

Your logic doesn’t hold. A true power play exploits some advantage that one person has over another. Therefore, withholding sex can only be a power play if one person wants it more than the other. If they both wanted it to the same extent, then they would both be equally deprived, and thus neither person would be in an advantageous position over the other. There is no doubt that withholding sex is a power play, but in order for this to be true, you must also accept that men and women do not have equal sex drives.

Huh? Some men let women get the advantageous position because they are as confused as you are. It has nothing to do with one gender having a stronger sex drive.

Zap Branigan wrote:
You appear to be confusing things.

Men need to orgasm to impregnate women so men easily orgasm.

While female orgasm can help her get pregnant it is by no means necessary.

Orgasms can be considered for their biological function (insemination) or for their pleasure aspect. It was the latter that I was addressing. I do not believe I have anything confused.

I think that you and others who hold the belief of gender parity on the sexual level must be living on a different planet. Take 10 average women and 10 average men. You offer each one of them the opportunity to sleep with a member of the opposite sex. Then you compare the rate of acceptance of this proposal from one gender to another. Isn’t it a given that the rate of acceptance will be skewed heavily towards the male side? This is a very simple demonstration of the biological fact that women do not derive as much physical pleasure from sex as men do, and thus are nowhere near as inclined to partake in sexual acts.

You have everything confused. Sex is not merely about orgasm.

Have you ever had a serious relationship with a woman?

If so by your posts I would venture it ended poorly.

Your understanding of women skewed.

It seems you do not think women are real people.[/quote]

I would agree with all of this. And at the very least, it’s an extremely ethnocentric perspective where he ignores societies I mentioned where women are dominant, take multiple husbands or lovers, and are widely regarded as the ones with the highest sexual desires and appetites. I also imagine that he’s never been with a highly sexually charged woman before.

[quote]dranon wrote:
Yeah this is so easy to judge him by what you read here on this board, BUT I have known him longer than his wife, and I know all the kids. I see the care and respect and love he gives to his family. I’ve seen and know “golf widows” or “football widows” guys that dont spend enough time with their family. Sat and/or Sunday spent on Golf with their buddies. They go hunting and fishing etc. etc. Guys with familys that spend too much time at the gym and their own selfish interests, he is not like that!
He is a good family man, no one would EVER suspect him of this. I care a lot about my friend and hate to see him hurt like this, and believe me I judged him harshly over this. I don’t approve but I cant completely Dis-approve. I know how important really good sex is and if I had the same problem with my wife I can’t say that I wouldn’t look for it elsewhere.[/quote]

Yeah, I see what you’re saying. I don’t have the answers either. Except to say that if I was having the same problem with my wife [actually just a girlfriend at this time] I would look for it elsewhere as well. Entirely elsewhere. Sex is too important a part of a relationship to be wholly unsatisfied.

And it’s a problem when you can’t work together to resolve it. I think lies and deceit poison a relationship even the only problem originally was a sexual one. The kids complicate things, but I can’t say they are necessarily better off in the long term if things continue the way they are. Especially if the affair comes to light. I don’t know…